How did you guys cope with this....?

[katryn]

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How did everybody cope with the sudden transition from straight A student to barely treading water?

I did really well last year, mostly due to the fluke of having seen a lot of the material 3 and 4 times through the process of high school and undergrad. This semester, I'm stuck in the mid 70's to low 80's range no matter how hard I study or how "easy" the professor says the test material is going to be. I'm not really complaining about the grades themselves (C=DVM, and some of my classmates say they are not even passing at this point....), but it's just a shock. Doing so well last year kind of deluded me into thinking that I could still be a mostly A student in vet school, and I'm having trouble switching gears to just be happy with a C in everything.

So, any tips for getting over it?

 

[dyachei]

How did everybody cope with the sudden transition from straight A student to barely treading water?

I did really well last year, mostly due to the fluke of having seen a lot of the material 3 and 4 times through the process of high school and undergrad. This semester, I'm stuck in the mid 70's to low 80's range no matter how hard I study or how "easy" the professor says the test material is going to be. I'm not really complaining about the grades themselves (C=DVM, and some of my classmates say they are not even passing at this point....), but it's just a shock. Doing so well last year kind of deluded me into thinking that I could still be a mostly A student in vet school, and I'm having trouble switching gears to just be happy with a C in everything.

So, any tips for getting over it?

Katryn - some things to keep in mind. There is a lot more going on second year. And they aren't trying to ease you in anymore. So it's really reasonable that it is a lot harder to do well. What I did when I was having a hard time was to take some time off from studying (I know it's hard with the number of tests in a row) and did something not vet school related but fun. Like go to a movie or have lunch/dinner with friends. Then I went back to studying with a fresh attitude. I also sought out help from the professors. Pretty much all the professors you have right now are really interested in seeing you succeed and they will probably sit down with you and go over material if you want.

Also, first year used to prepare students better at UTK but they changed things with the larger class sizes. Including the difficulty level of anatomy. I really think some of these changes hurt the classes below us.

 

[katryn]

Thanks, Dyachei.

Also, first year used to prepare students better at UTK but they changed things with the larger class sizes. Including the difficulty level of anatomy. I really think some of these changes hurt the classes below us.

I really wish they hadn't dumbed down the curriculum first year. I started last year assuming I would get C's, so doing so well kinda made this year feel like it came out of nowhere.

 

[StartingoverVet]

This may not apply, but perhaps since you didn't have to deal with the "how do I adjust" phase that frequently occurs, it is possible that you need to rethink your study habits/style.

I know it sounds lame, but if there is a campus resource that assists in study habits, you should use it....many people find it helps them to improve. You got by on your superior knowledge last year... studying may need a new approach this year.

Penn seems to be the opposite of UTK where we were thrown to the wolves right away...it took me over a semester to adjust. I am sure you can do likewise and do a little better (or have an easier time of it).

Good luck.

 

[CurrySpice]

I know it sounds lame, but if there is a campus resource that assists in study habits, you should use it....many people find it helps them to improve. You got by on your superior knowledge last year... studying may need a new approach this year.
Good luck.

Out of curiosity, what do they tell you in those study habit places in vet school? The equivalent at my undergrad was right next to the writing center, so I heard their spiel a few times and it was always very obvious, unhelpful advice. aka write down the assignments next to the due date and the big assignments with an early reminder and split up your studying with breaks. Things of that ilk.

 

[skittles12]

Are you interested in internships after graduating? I heard that was about the only reason to worry too much about your GPA (not sure if that's true or not). I've felt like I've been studying, studying, studying for not much payoff, so I've tried to find more of a balance between studying and doing more enjoyable things.
For me, I try not to dwell too much on the grades themselves. And I absolutely take time out to do things I enjoy. If I make 5 points lower on an exam, so be it. When I look back at things 10 years from now, what will I remember more--the grade I got on an exam or the hike I took in the mountains?
That may not be very reassuring, but if you think back to undergrad, do you remember the grade you made in every course? I definitely don't, but I know I made a few C's. And it didn't affect me getting where I am now--in vet school. My bet is that in 5 years, the grades you make now won't affect where you are then either.

We just got out of a brutal 9 exam stretch, combined with quizzes, first surgeries, and everything else life can throw at us. We didn't have that in first year. I'm just impressed that we're still sane!

 

[Dsmoody23]

I've been using http://www.studyblue.com with fairly decent results this semester.

My paradox has always been that I study well with the flashcard format, but never quite find the time to keep the stupid things updated.

With this, it saves lugging around a 6 inch stack of paper products. Equally, inputting the material the same day as lectures is a good start on jumping from short term memory to long term.

And... Free.

I know this isn't quite what you're asking, but it's a nice tool for anyone struggling with excess material getting away from them.

 

[breenie]

My dad is a physicist and loves math. This has deeply scarred me since I had to you know... be raised by this man.

He told me once as a child: if you give 1,000 people a test, there will be a bell curve distribution of scores.

Then if you take the top 500 people, and give them a harder test, you'll get a bell curve again.

And you can do it until you get down until a pretty small number.

I figure we all meet the end of the bell curve at some point, right? I try to be satisfied that I settled around the middle of the bell at this point in life and not earlier. 🙂 Nothing wrong with be an average member of an elite herd, right?

 

[dyachei]

Thanks, Dyachei.



I really wish they hadn't dumbed down the curriculum first year. I started last year assuming I would get C's, so doing so well kinda made this year feel like it came out of nowhere.

It really does a disservice to you guys. What I think helps even less is that the 2nd year professors (which we were in class with when the change happened) were not impressed with the admin and decided they were not going to cater to the students like 1st year. So you kind of get the double whammy.

 

[HopefulAg]

I figure we all meet the end of the bell curve at some point, right?

That's a good way of putting it. I stopped caring about grades the minute I was accepted into vet school, but still it's a bit hard to be making below average on everything when I was always well above average. I have to remind myself that (theoretically) I'm in the creme of the crop, or pretty close, so getting below average is still pretty good when what it means to be 'average' has been raised significantly.


There's also a quote by Roosevelt, I believe, that goes something like "Comparison is the thief of joy" which I think is a pretty good summation of performance in vet school. It doesn't matter if you're not doing as well as A, because both you and A will be vets. The only time this doesn't matter is if you want to specialize, and even then people keep trying to tell me it's more about who you know than what you know in regards to that. Not sure if that's true but the last person I talked to stressed the importance of phone calls and e-mails between those matching residencies more than anything else.

 

[Dsmoody23]

One of the gym rules at my old Crossfit:

- Check your ego at the door. Somewhere, a 14 year old kid is warming up with your personal record.

That always pops out at me when I'm getting academically destroyed by my classmates.

Most of us have been the smartest person in one or more rooms, in the past. But the further you go, the less likely it is that you're going to be the best anything in the room. But it's still better than not being in the room at all.

I'm generally just glad that I'm even there.

 

[LetItSnow]

A couple things help me.

The first is being actively involved in vet activities that aren't academic. A few weekends ago I was in northern MN on a veterinary rural service trip. Last weekend I did a similar deal locally. Tonight I did a suture wet lab. This weekend I'll be in the clinic of my pre-vet days just to be in the 'real world'. Doing those sorts of things helps you keep the perspective that there's more to vet student life than classes and grades.

The second is taking a look around me. I am by no means one of the 'smart' people in class. In the one class that publishes a running class average (anatomy) I am less than 1% above the mean. I live at the top of that bell curve. 🙂

That means there's a lot of people left of me on the curve. And some of them are quite a ways left. And those people have academic stress that I know would be crippling. I talk to some of them and hear their troubles - the stress of "I have to get a B on the next test or I won't be able to get above a D in the class" - and it helps me feel better even though I'm pretty consistently scoring 10% below my undergrad days.

The third thing I do is similar to the first, but non-vet. I go home and give my wife a kiss, play with my dog, hug my daughter, help my son with his homework, or whatever. Don't need to say much more about that.

Even though I'm a year behind the OP, I think all of these ought to still be applicable next year when classes get harder.

 

[Minnerbelle]

I find it helpful to keep in mind that in a lot of classes it seems like 75% of your grade is based on knowing what is important and will be relevant to practice, while a good 25% of your grade is based on some random crap that you KNOW you'll forget right after the test and it won't even matter. Another good chunk of that 25% are things that are based on "what the professor wants to hear" and not so much about your knowledge on the material. And then there are professors who explicitly say that they make the tests so that they can differentiate between the average student and the elite or whatever. It's all a bunch of bull. There are definitely classes where you need to "play the game" and cater to the prof to get an A... and I just don't think it's worth it.

When I study, I always try to focus on the concepts that I think are actually important. I'll read though minutia that I think is fair game for the exam, but I don't make a concerted effort to memorize a lot of them. I know myself more than anyone else, and I know that stuff will come right back out of my brain after the test and though it might score me a couple points, I value my sanity over my test score. After all, my goal is to become a good vet, not someone who was the top of my class. If I'm happy with my exam score, I usually don't even look it over. If I didn't do as well, I'll look it over to check that I'd gotten everything right that I wanted/cared to learn. As long as my wrong answers don't show a gap in the knowledge of overall concepts and important detail, I just don't care. A lot of answers come out wrong just because of the way the professor decided to ask/word the question and answer choices. I don't let myself get bothered with that.

 

[katryn]

Thanks for all the responses guys. This really brought me down to Earth, especially the bell curve example. 😀

I've been doing a much better job of relaxing and not forcing myself to study for hours on end this year, and I'm much happier at the lower middle end of the bell curve than I was at the top end of it last year, to be sure.

 

[AspenMarie]

I've been using http://www.studyblue.com with fairly decent results this semester.

My paradox has always been that I study well with the flashcard format, but never quite find the time to keep the stupid things updated.

With this, it saves lugging around a 6 inch stack of paper products. Equally, inputting the material the same day as lectures is a good start on jumping from short term memory to long term.

And... Free.

I know this isn't quite what you're asking, but it's a nice tool for anyone struggling with excess material getting away from them.

Wow. This is a seriously great resource. I'm hugely flashcard-oriented and honestly feel bad about felling a tree every day. Thanks!

 

[RadRadTerp]

This has actually been pretty stressful for me, too, because the exams are harder and I miss more questions per exam than I did last year. To me, the fact is that there are more classes that are equally hard instead of having to only worry about a few difficult classes first year. Part of the problem for me is realizing that I could study harder and make more flowcharts/flashcards and study guides to really memorize the material a whole lot more effectively, but I just don't want to do all that to crank out what counts as an "A" (>94) here. I feel like I'm still learning a lot of valuable information even when I'm scoring in the middle of the pack, and that's what really counts in the end.

 

[nyanko]

Part of the problem for me is realizing that I could study harder and make more flowcharts/flashcards and study guides to really memorize the material a whole lot more effectively, but I just don't want to do all that to crank out what counts as an "A" (>94) here. I feel like I'm still learning a lot of valuable information even when I'm scoring in the middle of the pack, and that's what really counts in the end.

👍 I'd honestly rather keep my sanity by doing the fun things I like to do that aren't related to school (all of the hockey, all of it) and get an A- or B+ in a class than give up those things to study enough small details to get A's in everything. Sometimes I feel like I'm probably a bad vet student because I don't put as much into it as others, but at least I'm a bad vet student with some perspective and a sweet wristshot. 😉

 

[cowgirla]

Wow. This is a seriously great resource. I'm hugely flashcard-oriented and honestly feel bad about felling a tree every day. Thanks!

I havent used that website, but I do use flashcardexchange.com and absolutely love it, so thats another one to check out as well.

 

[twelvetigers]

I like how nyanko is talking about being a bad student with her single B+.

I, on the other hand, am quite familiar with making 'meh' to 'bad' grades. That's why it took me so long to get in... I mean, I made a couple of Ds and more Cs than I care to remember. And now that the undergraduate record is no longer a hurdle I have to jump, what do I do? I'm hovering in the B/C range for most of my classes. It's not for lack of effort, really - I'm not just being a lazy ass - but it's a bit troublesome. I don't want another hurdle to jump like that, especially not the SAME damn hurdle.

 

[HopefulAg]

Do Pathology residencies heavily focus on grades?

 

[twelvetigers]

Nowhere near as much as some, but I'm inclined to think it might play a role. Plus, it does rely on networking, and to achieve some of the neater networking things might require some baseline GPA...

Again, I dunno. I'm just worried.

 

[Armymutt25A]

My wife and I had a discussion similar to this. When we were undergrads, we were happy making whatever we made. After playing in the real world for a while, our performance expectations went up dramatically. I left Purdue in '99 with a cum below 3.0. In Officer Candidate School, I lost 2 points - one of the highest averages ever in the history of the school. Now we're both back in school and have to reconcile our performance with the intensity of the workload. Right now, the only thing that is keeping me focused on the GPA is a scholarship. If I get it, then my focus will switch to the real importance - learning the information. While it sounds like the two would go hand in hand, it often doesn't. I'm currently having to sacrifice learning information that I'm pretty sure will come in handy in order to focus my attention on less vital information that will help me do well on a test.

One of the problems often encountered by people moving into a challenging level after having it easy is that they never developed the skill of dealing with the suck. I read a book once that described the people who enter the SEAL training program. The guys who last longer are the ones who have had a tough time since the beginning. The guys who can sprint 4 miles end up quitting in the heads when the distance moves to 8 miles and they can't hang out where they once did. It's an interesting and exploitable phenomenon. Not saying that's what schools are doing intentionally, but it allows you to really see what people are made of.

 

[Minnerbelle]

If I get it, then my focus will switch to the real importance - learning the information. While it sounds like the two would go hand in hand, it often doesn't. I'm currently having to sacrifice learning information that I'm pretty sure will come in handy in order to focus my attention on less vital information that will help me do well on a test.

well said! agree 100%

except i've decided to do the opposite. i try to learn what i think is important, and if that's not what i'm getting graded on, i just go and stab a voodoo doll and then move on with my life. i'm thinking no fancy schmancy internship/residency for me anyway... and i don't really qualify for any major scholarships that'd be worth it to sacrifice my happiness or real learning.

 

[scb44f]

well said! agree 100%

except i've decided to do the opposite. i try to learn what i think is important, and if that's not what i'm getting graded on, i just go and stab a voodoo doll and then move on with my life. i'm thinking no fancy schmancy internship/residency for me anyway... and i don't really qualify for any major scholarships that'd be worth it to sacrifice my happiness or real learning.

👍 As you guys have probably guessed by now, I talk to my SO a whole lot (go figure). With him in a PBL-style med school, and me in a lecture-based vet school, it is incredibly interesting to see what my professors test on vs. what he's tested on. It's somewhat ridiculous sometimes the kinds of things I'm tested on vs. him, and I get really frustrated by it, but I accept the fact that I may not be getting all A's while still keeping my sanity and then I move on. It's hard, but I too am not so into the idea of a residency/internship, at least not as of right now.

 

[BlacKAT33]

Out of curiosity, what do they tell you in those study habit places in vet school? The equivalent at my undergrad was right next to the writing center, so I heard their spiel a few times and it was always very obvious, unhelpful advice. aka write down the assignments next to the due date and the big assignments with an early reminder and split up your studying with breaks. Things of that ilk.

[i have not read all of the comments in this thread so i'm sorry if i repeat something]

Penn kicked my butt first year first semester. I went to the learning center expecting they would tell me exactly what you said above and not be helpful. However, the man there really knew the vet curriculum and how it was different than undergrad (this learning center is more for Penn in general so undergrads usually go there). He completely blew my mind because he told me the complete opposite of what I thought he was going to say.

Long story short, he told me that if I cant absorb info during class then I'm wasting my time sitting there. We get the powerpoints, half the classes have detailed handouts, and audio recordings of all lectures. He told me to just listen to audio at home and study at my own pace and my own style.

The result:: I save a ton of hours during the day because I never have to re-listen to lectures that I didn't pay attention to while sitting in class. I can speed the audio up and listen to 50 min lectures in 25-40 minutes. I have more time to study/memorize.
I've now been kicking vet schools butt 😀 I've also been able to sleep in til 9-10 each morning and spend time with my boyfriend more.

I'm sure the advice they give to the students are all based on their unique situation (the degree they are getting and the problems they are having). Everyone is different and if the people working there are good, they won't give generic advice to every student who comes to talk with them.

 

[Armymutt25A]

I'm not so sure I need the GPA for the scholarship. My other qualifications can't be touched by anyone else applying, mostly because few in my former position would have dropped it to go to school. I'm really just trying to ensure I have a job at graduation - GI Bill is paying for school right now. I'd probably do better to spend more time in the gym trying to drop weight, but there will be time for that over the summer.

 

[LetItSnow]

I've also been able to sleep in til 9-10 each morning and spend time with my boyfriend more.

We have a few of our classes recorded but not all, and I really wish they'd video record ALL of them.

I am NOT a morning person. I have never been a morning person. My dad, a product of a dairy farm life, tried for years to turn me into one and it didn't work. I don't pretend to understand the ins and outs of why some people are morning people and some aren't, but I am not. Period.

My vet-school life would be so much more productive if I could do what you're doing. Sleeping in until 9-10 and then being up later studying would result in better learning and retention for me. For whatever reason, our school only records some classes and not others.

Before anyone jumps on me; yes, I realize I'll have to get up early for a job. I can do that and have done so for years. There's a difference between being able to function and functioning at your most efficient level. Frankly, if I had the time in life to specialize in emergency medicine, I would love to work a 2nd or 3rd shift doing that. It's the time of day I'm at my best.

 

[su_grad2007]

[i have not read all of the comments in this thread so i'm sorry if i repeat something]

Long story short, he told me that if I cant absorb info during class then I'm wasting my time sitting there. We get the powerpoints, half the classes have detailed handouts, and audio recordings of all lectures. He told me to just listen to audio at home and study at my own pace and my own style.

The result:: I save a ton of hours during the day because I never have to re-listen to lectures that I didn't pay attention to while sitting in class. I can speed the audio up and listen to 50 min lectures in 25-40 minutes. I have more time to study/memorize.
I've now been kicking vet schools butt 😀 I've also been able to sleep in til 9-10 each morning and spend time with my boyfriend more.

I am definitely going to try this! I am horrible at listening to lecture, but we have an attendance policy and in class quizzes so I have to go to most classes. But I also live an hour away from school so I record lecture and listen to it in the car to study during that time. I think since I can't pay attention to lecture anyway, I am going to listen to the lecture in the car on a faster speed so I can get through them all during my commute and then I can sit in class and study in a way that will have me learning the information rather than attempting to follow a power point presentation. This is really helpful! Thanks!!! 😀

 

[katryn]

I wish, I wish, I wish they recorded all of our lectures. But someone has to be out sick, or have some other true obligation that requires them to miss class before the lectures get recorded.

My biggest class attention problem is not time of day, but lecture style based. Mainly to do with speed. If you talk slow, have a soothing voice, spend too much time going over a single power point slide, or repeat the same information multiple times in the same lecture, get ready for me to fall asleep. And don't get me started on lectures or labs that involve sitting around while the professor explains cases.

Unfortunately, I still seem to retain more information by falling asleep in class than I do muddling through the note packets on my own at home.

 

[spicykimchi]

How long is each lecture you guys go to? How many lectures do you have to listen to in a single day? Are they all in the same building? If so does one professor leave, after they are done lecturing, and the next one enter right after? If so that must be boring and it would be nice if you at least got to change buildings.

 

[nyanko]

Not sure who you're directing that question towards, but at UCDavis the vast majority of our lectures are not only in the same building but literally in the same room. There are 10 minute breaks between 50 minute lectures and the professors come to us. Typically we'll have 2-3 in the morning, 1-2 in the afternoon and then sometimes lab in the afternoon after lecture (in one of about 3 other rooms).

 

[pooter]

Well, at PennWee . . .

Start almost every morning of first year with three hours of anatomy lab, followed by lunch and then lectures in the afternoon. Like Davis (and probably most of the other schools) we have fifty minute lectures with ten minute breaks unless the prof runs over (*cough*Nassar*cough*cough*). We have 2-4 lectures depending on whether there's another lab session in the afternoon. It's always in "our" lecture hall unless one of the other classes needs it for an exam. On days when we don't have anatomy, we've had as many as 7 lectures in a day. Again, this is just first year.

 

[spicykimchi]

Nyanko: I dunno, I guess anybody.

Pooter: 7 lectures in a day? Wow. Do you feel like you absorb less and less as the day drags on? Or are you mentally used to it?

 

[heylodeb]

I have definitely noticed a running theme that I stop listening around the 4th or 5th lecture of the day and at the end of the last 10 minutes of every single lecture. Seriously...don't hear a word - apparently my brain only works in 40 minute increments. I don't remember being that bad in undergrad!

 

[pooter]

I think I accumulated less information from lecture on the seven hour days than I do on the two hour days. First, I'd be half-asleep all morning with no chance to wake myself up, then by the time afternoon rolled around I was so sick of lecture that stuff just bounced off of me like water on a very grumpy duck. Fortunately, we've only had two days where we didn't have *some kind* of lab to break it up.

 

[spicykimchi]

Heylobed & pooter: Do you feel like you would have been better off studying on your own, in contrast to being in so many lectures in one day? Do you learn faster when you teach yourself?

 

[heylodeb]

There is give and take. I would say with our curriculum, we are getting on average 3 -4 lectures a day with a lab. We are getting much more of a framework than the previous class and then expected to learn the rest in personal study time. I like this method because you have the guidance of the professors lectures to get you started and explain the more difficult concepts but then you have time to learn the rest on your own. (For example - we had one lecture on Hypersensitivities in the last block but the previous classes had 4. However, we were given a CBL and take home test that delve into it much further so we got it in another way). It is good in some ways and not so great in other ways. I'm always worried than I'm not getting enough information and may over study a topic in fear that I'm missing something. This doesn't happen very often but I will admit that the Immunology information was so confusing and when taking the test (take home - thank god!), I'm realizing that there was a LOT more that I should have delved into on my own.

There are always +'s and -'s to every style. I actually am really happy with the "half traditional/half PBL with some other learning methods thrown in for good measure" that our curriculum is deisgned from. It is working for me, at least.

 

[nyanko]

I will admit that the Immunology information was so confusing and when taking the test (take home - thank god!), I'm realizing that there was a LOT more that I should have delved into on my own.

If it helps any, our class had the entire course on immunology with all of the lectures and nobody remembers any of it anyway.

 

[HopefulAg]

I remember that Interleukin 2 does...something. And IL-4 is involved with...inflammation? Or..yah I got nothing.

If you talk slow, have a soothing voice, spend too much time going over a single power point slide, or repeat the same information multiple times in the same lecture, get ready for me to fall asleep.

No joke. What's worse is they turn the lights down every day in our classes (so the slides can be seen better) so not only do I have to deal with soothing, monotonous voices, but also my brain going "it's dark it's dark it's dark yay nap time now!"

I feel like one of those birds you throw a blanket over to make it go to sleep. And from a single blind study of sample size 1, I've concluded that the amount of rest I actually get makes no difference upon how often I fall asleep in class. Shoot sometimes I don't even remember closing my eyes.

 

[katryn]

And from a single blind study of sample size 1, I've concluded that the amount of rest I actually get makes no difference upon how often I fall asleep in class. Shoot sometimes I don't even remember closing my eyes.

I'm still trying to explain this one to my friends. They always seem so surprised when I say I got plenty of sleep and then doze off in class.

 

[LetItSnow]

If you talk slow, have a soothing voice....

OMG. We had a conflict resolution person from the hospital giving us a lunchtime talk about how to manage sticky situations, and you could just totally tell she was counselor material. She had that soothing "well, why don't you tell me how that makes you feel" kind of voice going.

Somebody really needed to tell her to turn off her conflict rez voice for lectures and put on the "I'm selling hot dogs in the stands of the baseball stadium" voice, because I was seriously asleep before the first powerpoint slide was over. And I was actually interested in the material.

 

[kaydubs]

OMG. We had a conflict resolution person from the hospital giving us a lunchtime talk about how to manage sticky situations, and you could just totally tell she was counselor material. She had that soothing "well, why don't you tell me how that makes you feel" kind of voice going.

Somebody really needed to tell her to turn off her conflict rez voice for lectures and put on the "I'm selling hot dogs in the stands of the baseball stadium" voice, because I was seriously asleep before the first powerpoint slide was over. And I was actually interested in the material.

🤣 The thread greatly cheered me. Now, to bed!

 

[Coquette22]

How long is each lecture you guys go to? How many lectures do you have to listen to in a single day? Are they all in the same building? If so does one professor leave, after they are done lecturing, and the next one enter right after? If so that must be boring and it would be nice if you at least got to change buildings.

One room. 7 lectures a day - 4 in the morning, 3 in the afternoon (except for Mon, Tue and Thu, when we have labs in the afternoon). 50 minutes each with 10 minute breaks between. Professors come to us. We have one class in a different room a few times a week, because it's more group discussion based and we need to be around tables rather than in rows in a lecture hall.