How difficult is it for a FMG to get a gen-surgery residency?

[NRAI2001]

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[addicted2hope]

DEPENDS. Comparing specialties, it is tougher than Internal Medicine, Psychiatry, Pediatrics or Family Medicine but easier than the other specialties. A good number of IMGs get into Surgery each year. Many IMGs start with Preliminary Surgery and then move on to Categorical Surgery.

 

[NRAI2001]

DEPENDS. Comparing specialties, it is tougher than Internal Medicine, Psychiatry, Pediatrics or Family Medicine but easier than the other specialties. A good number of IMGs get into Surgery each year. Many IMGs start with Preliminary Surgery and then move on to Categorical Surgery.

When u say they move to a categorical surgery, do u mean they start a gen surgery residency and then switch to a specialized surgery residency?

 

[Purifyer]

No. A preliminary surgery spot is a position only held for one year with no guarantee of anything afterwards. With a catergorical spot you can assume you will eventually finish your residency and become a surgeon.

so when a2h says they move to catergorical he means that many IMGs start off in an insecure year long preliminary spot and manage to secure a categorical spot afterwards, thus ensuring they can actually complete a residency.

I hope I'm right

 

[NRAI2001]

No. A preliminary surgery spot is a position only held for one year with no guarantee of anything afterwards. With a catergorical spot you can assume you will eventually finish your residency and become a surgeon.

so when a2h says they move to catergorical he means that many IMGs start off in an insecure year long preliminary spot and manage to secure a categorical spot afterwards, thus ensuring they can actually complete a residency.

I hope I'm right

So is the preliminary spot a spot in the surgical field that u want to do ur residency in or is it a general surgical spot? So are u going into the preliminary surgery spot for a specific field or is it general where after completion you decide which field of surgery you would like to do?

 

[Purifyer]

So is the preliminary spot a spot in the surgical field that u want to do ur residency in or is it a general surgical spot? So are u going into the preliminary surgery spot for a specific field or is it general where after completion you decide which field of surgery you would like to do?

As far as I know, the only reason you would seek a preliminary general surgery spot is if (i) You are going into a speciality that 'starts' in PGY-2 (ie. they leave you up to your own devices for your first year essentially) or (ii) You can't get a categorical spot [that you want].

Preliminary surgery spots are in general surgery. I do not know if other types of surgery have preliminary spots but I doubt it (or at least I never read about it on SDN).

 

[NRAI2001]

As far as I know, the only reason you would seek a preliminary general surgery spot is if (i) You are going into a speciality that 'starts' in PGY-2 (ie. they leave you up to your own devices for your first year essentially) or (ii) You can't get a categorical spot [that you want].

Preliminary surgery spots are in general surgery. I do not know if other types of surgery have preliminary spots but I doubt it (or at least I never read about it on SDN).

So would someone doing a preliminary general surgery (is it called PGY-1?) switch into a neurosurgery or orthopediac surgery or anyother specialized surgery?

 

[ny skindoc]

People who go into Neurosurgery,ortho,ENT,Urology generally match directly into these fields,they do several years of general surgey integrated into their program,usually do not seek a prelim surg.Prelim surgery is for those who want 1 year prior to anesthesiology,rads etc (although a year of medicine is ok as well).
There are not many reasons to do a prelim surgery year as it does not lead to anything directly,which is why many slots go unmatched and they are not competitive.Sometimes if you do a great job a prelim surgery year can lead to a categorical suregy position.This is not guaranteed and some have to repeat the internship.

 

[NRAI2001]

People who go into Neurosurgery,ortho,ENT,Urology generally match directly into these fields,they do several years of general surgey integrated into their program,usually do not seek a prelim surg.Prelim surgery is for those who want 1 year prior to anesthesiology,rads etc (although a year of medicine is ok as well).
There are not many reasons to do a prelim surgery year as it does not lead to anything directly,which is why many slots go unmatched and they are not competitive.Sometimes if you do a great job a prelim surgery year can lead to a categorical suregy position.This is not guaranteed and some have to repeat the internship.

So if you do a year of preliminary surgery are u supposed to apply to residency programs again once you complete the year?

 

[addicted2hope]

Purifyer is right. I meant that many IMGs who cannot land a Categorical General Surgery position start with a Preliminary Surgery position (which is far easier to get) and then move to a Categorical General Surgery position afterwards. Some are lucky to get a PGY-2 spot (depends on the openings - someone changes his/her mind and leaves a Categorical residency), while many have to start from PGY-1 in Categorical Surgery. That's an extra year but for those who are desperate to get into Surgery, it might be worth it. Some are unsuccessful in getting a Categorical position and move on to the less-competitive specialties like Internal Medicine. A few desperate people repeat the Preliminary year in the hope of landing a Categorical position the next year. (That's two extra years!). Of course, you have to apply all over again in September of your Preliminary year. If you do a good job, your own program might take you for a Categorical position starting next year. But you will know this late in the year and so you have to apply anyways. It is theoretically possible to move on to a PGY-2 position in any specialty requiring a PGY-1 Preliminary year (Ophthalmology, Anesthesiology, Radiology) but these PGY-2 positions would be very tough to land, more so for an IMG who could not get a Categorical Surgery position in the first place.

 

[NRAI2001]

Purifyer is right. I meant that many IMGs who cannot land a Categorical General Surgery position start with a Preliminary Surgery position (which is far easier to get) and then move to a Categorical General Surgery position afterwards. Some are lucky to get a PGY-2 spot (depends on the openings - someone changes his/her mind and leaves a Categorical residency), while many have to start from PGY-1 in Categorical Surgery. That's an extra year but for those who are desperate to get into Surgery, it might be worth it. Some are unsuccessful in getting a Categorical position and move on to the less-competitive specialties like Internal Medicine. A few desperate people repeat the Preliminary year in the hope of landing a Categorical position the next year. (That's two extra years!). Of course, you have to apply all over again in September of your Preliminary year. If you do a good job, your own program might take you for a Categorical position starting next year. But you will know this late in the year and so you have to apply anyways. It is theoretically possible to move on to a PGY-2 position in any specialty requiring a PGY-1 Preliminary year (Ophthalmology, Anesthesiology, Radiology) but these PGY-2 positions would be very tough to land, more so for an IMG who could not get a Categorical Surgery position in the first place.

O ok, i see.