How do schools evaluate GPA?

[kaim10]

How do medical schools evaluate your GPA? After all, each applicant is coming from a different school with different courses and professors. Even an intro physics course at one school could be totally different from one at another school. My school is known to be particularly stingy when it comes to giving out grades. Do they take your ugrad school into account at all?

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[Holmwood]

If you meet a certain threshold, it doesn't really tell much.
If you don't meet a certain threshold, then other considerations have to take place.
MCAT has a greater weight in both instances.

Undergrad don't really matter, sorry.

 

[MD2BE92]

Looking back, it would have almost been advisable to a younger me to attend an easy institution notorious for grade-inflation. MCAT is the only equalizer in this process unfortunately. So many either over or under-represent a candidates potential (although often times it is over)

 

[kaim10]

If you meet a certain threshold, it doesn't really tell much.
If you don't meet a certain threshold, then other considerations have to take place.
MCAT has a greater weight in both instances.

Undergrad don't really matter, sorry.

Okay, so would a threshold be like if you're within their range for GPA (ideally around the median)?

 

[Holmwood]

Okay, so would a threshold be like if you're within their range for GPA (ideally around the median)?

Yeah, exactly.

 

[LizzyM]

Assumptions:
No SMP or post-bac
Traditional student who went from HS to college and who is applying at the start or at the end of senior year

If your GPA is < 3.2 there isn't much to say; getting any school to take you seriously will be surprising.
If your GPA is >3.97 there isn't much to say; it isn't possible to have done better any almost any school will take you seriously if you have an MCAT to match (e.g. top 5% on the MCAT).

The messy middle between 3.20 and 3.96 is where there will be slicing and dicing over what school, what major, what course load, which courses, and so forth. Med Schools tend to know their feeder schools and will understand that X is a weed out at college A and Y is a weed out at school B.

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

MCAT gives a good amount of context to GPA....

ie. A creative writing major with a 4.0 who gets a 26 probably didn't take a very rigorous science curriculum. A 3.2 from MIT who scores a 38 clearly has a good grasp of the sciences, but was competing among the best of the best in undergrad classes.

I have always wondered about those schools that may not be well know but also grade very harshly . Somewhere like Ross for example...are their students just kinda screwed?

 

[WedgeDawg]

GPA does not exist in a vacuum. It will be contextualized, but don't assume that some factor will automatically make it okay for you to have a low GPA. It goes case by case.

 

[GrapesofRath]

MCAT gives a good amount of context to GPA....

ie. A creative writing major with a 4.0 who gets a 26 probably didn't take a very rigorous science curriculum. A 3.2 from MIT who scores a 38 clearly has a good grasp of the sciences, but was competing among the best of the best in undergrad classes.

I have always wondered about those schools that may not be well know but also grade very harshly . Somewhere like Ross for example...are their students just kinda screwed?

It's kind of funny how simple and complicated of a question this can be at the same time. Having spent way too much time on here over the months, I've thought about it and here's some food for thought.

For as much talk about people applying broadly and needing to apply to 20+ schools look at how many states where the majority of people who get accepted stay in state.
https://www.aamc.org/download/321466/data/factstable5.pdf

The majority of states in the US the majority of their matriculants stay IS. What I'm getting at is your chances are often best at the schools closest to you. So in the case of Ross, if you went to U of Michigan, those Michigan schools will know alot about your GPA because they see tons of students from that school and probably have taken tons of students from that school. They have a decent sense of what equates to what and probably to some extent how well the students from Ross/Michigan do in their med school. Those schools will have a good idea of what a solid GPA is from U Mich. It's very possible they could look at that 3.41 as solid and that someone with a 3.41 from Michigan is likely to be fine at their med school. If that's the case it perhaps won't be a turn off, even if it is at the lower end of competitive historically, particularly if there are mitigating factors(ie working 30+ hours a week in college to support the family).

Note this isn't about "big names" ie adding 0.3 if you went to JHU or anything like that. It's more about familiarity med schools have with certain UGs. The SUNYs could easily be a feeder to many new york schools because they are a known product who have produced good medical students in those med schools. If you have a GPA along the lines of what that school deems is fine and not a risk factor for having problems in med school, even if numerically its not the prettiest thing in the world, you might be ok.

I guess in summary that's why its important to look at the stats for your particular UG school. For Michigan it turns out, the successful matriculant there has a 3.64/3.55 on average. A bit lower than national average but not too much. Interestingly, there MCAT at 30.8 is little bit below the national matriculant avg. So all in all to be successful from U of M it looks like you have to have the same type of stats the average applicant does to be successful more or less.

https://careercenter.umich.edu/article/2014-medical-school-application-statistics

 

[kaim10]

It's kind of funny how simple and complicated of a question this can be at the same time. Having spent way too much time on here over the months, I've thought about it and here's some food for thought.

For as much talk about people applying broadly and needing to apply to 20+ schools look at how many states where the majority of people who get accepted stay in state.
https://www.aamc.org/download/321466/data/factstable5.pdf

The majority of states in the US the majority of their matriculants stay IS. What I'm getting at is your chances are often best at the schools closest to you. So in the case of Ross, if you went to U of Michigan, those Michigan schools will know alot about your GPA because they see tons of students from that school and probably have taken tons of students from that school. They have a decent sense of what equates to what and probably to some extent how well the students from Ross/Michigan do in their med school. Those schools will have a good idea of what a solid GPA is from U Mich. It's very possible they could look at that 3.41 as solid and that someone with a 3.41 from Michigan is likely to be fine at their med school. If that's the case it perhaps won't be a turn off, even if it is at the lower end of competitive historically, particularly if there are mitigating factors(ie working 30+ hours a week in college to support the family).

Note this isn't about "big names" ie adding 0.3 if you went to JHU or anything like that. It's more about familiarity med schools have with certain UGs. The SUNYs could easily be a feeder to many new york schools because they are a known product who have produced good medical students in those med schools. If you have a GPA along the lines of what that school deems is fine and not a risk factor for having problems in med school, even if numerically its not the prettiest thing in the world, you might be ok.

I guess in summary that's why its important to look at the stats for your particular UG school. For Michigan it turns out, the successful matriculant there has a 3.64/3.55 on average. A bit lower than national average but not too much. Interestingly, there MCAT at 30.8 is little bit below the national matriculant avg. So all in all to be successful from U of M it looks like you have to have the same type of stats the average applicant does to be successful more or less.

https://careercenter.umich.edu/article/2014-medical-school-application-statistics

This is very helpful- thanks!

 

[efle]

Guess I should throw my usual link in here

Private med schools do care if you're coming from a well known undergrad. Public med schools don't. In general, high GPA from famous name > high GPA from unknown >>> low GPA anywhere. Odds of anyone knowing about differences in specific course rigors is extremely slim unless the undergrad is a feeder

 

[WhittyPsyche]

Idk how many schools do this, but our transcripts lists our grades and the average grade that was given.
Very easy to contextualize.

 

[aristrutz523]

Assumptions:
No SMP or post-bac
Traditional student who went from HS to college and who is applying at the start or at the end of senior year

If your GPA is < 3.2 there isn't much to say; getting any school to take you seriously will be surprising.
If your GPA is >3.97 there isn't much to say; it isn't possible to have done better any almost any school will take you seriously if you have an MCAT to match (e.g. top 5% on the MCAT).

The messy middle between 3.20 and 3.96 is where there will be slicing and dicing over what school, what major, what course load, which courses, and so forth. Med Schools tend to know their feeder schools and will understand that X is a weed out at college A and Y is a weed out at school B.

Question though: where does the sGPA factor in? Because I always see threads with "low GPA high MCAT", etc but my overall GPA is high, it's my sGPA thats the issue.
How is that looked at? Or, if a school screens by GPA , would they screen by my overall?
Just wondering b/c this still confuses me

 

[heybubbaa]

Assumptions:
No SMP or post-bac
Traditional student who went from HS to college and who is applying at the start or at the end of senior year

If your GPA is < 3.2 there isn't much to say; getting any school to take you seriously will be surprising.

I have been wondering about how my academic record will appear, so thank you for your insight.

But for a non-trad student with <3.2 GPA, how much weight would a strong academic turnaround (3.98 for the last ~3 years of UG) and a strong SMP performance carry? (I know that this isn't a WAMC thread, so I apologize if this question is off-topic).

Thank you!

 

[MD2BE92]

Idk how many schools do this, but our transcripts lists our grades and the average grade that was given.
Very easy to contextualize.

Not speaking necessarily of your school...but without a normal distribution this 'average' could be significantly skewed. The grade could look either a whole lot better (basis of grade inflation as I understand it) or a whole lot worse than its true intrinsic value-- although that is a whole 'nother rabit hole in and of itself.

This is why the MCAT is used to contextualize, although not always the best option (since clearly one test, or your standardized testing might not reflect your merit as an undergrad)

 

[WhittyPsyche]

Not speaking necessarily of your school...but without a normal distribution this 'average' could be significantly skewed. The grade could look either a whole lot better (basis of grade inflation as I understand it) or a whole lot worse than its true intrinsic value-- although that is a whole 'nother rabit hole in and of itself.

This is why the MCAT is used to contextualize, although not always the best option (since clearly one test, or your standardized testing might not reflect your merit as an undergrad)

I did not mean to contextualize in comparison to every other school. I mean to contextualize and compare the students who had the very same class in the same environment. So if it's an A and the class average is a B+ they can scrutinize better than an A and the class average was a C. It helps the evaluator tremendously, I think, to see what a student did with the situation they were placed in as compared to others in the exact same position.

This is not to compare across schools for inflation, defamation, etc.

 

[Goro]

Different Adcom members views things about GPA differently at my school. Among them:

I like (and lots of other med schools) like rising trends.
Declining trends are bad, if not outright lethal
High sGPA is always viewed highly
High GPA with lots of upper level science courses is good
Multiple scattered Ws (as opposed to an entire semester) imply strategic GPA protection (not good)
Multiple scattered C's mixed in with good grades imply one doesn't have the stamina to master everything (which you're supposed to).

Different schools have their stated GPA minimums, but have practical floors. I usually interpret the 10th %ile to be the latter.

How do medical schools evaluate your GPA? After all, each applicant is coming from a different school with different courses and professors. Even an intro physics course at one school could be totally different from one at another school. My school is known to be particularly stingy when it comes to giving out grades. Do they take your ugrad school into account at all?

 

[LizzyM]

I have been wondering about how my academic record will appear, so thank you for your insight.

But for a non-trad student with <3.2 GPA, how much weight would a strong academic turnaround (3.98 for the last ~3 years of UG) and a strong SMP performance carry? (I know that this isn't a WAMC thread, so I apologize if this question is off-topic).

Thank you!

Non-trad who racked up many courses with a 3.0 average or better while not-pre med and then saw the light, started taking pre-med classes and did very well (3.8 or better) but can't move the GPA needle much because of so many classes earlier, is a different kettle of fish. If they aren't weeded out by an pre-screening, then they are likely to get an assessment that says, "this person may have what it takes to succeed academically, let's look at the rest of the record to see if they know what medicine is all about and have made a mature decision and have the temperament to be a good physician."

 

[LizzyM]

Question though: where does the sGPA factor in? Because I always see threads with "low GPA high MCAT", etc but my overall GPA is high, it's my sGPA thats the issue.
How is that looked at? Or, if a school screens by GPA , would they screen by my overall?
Just wondering b/c this still confuses me

If I see a high GPA low science GPA, then I'm curious. Does this person have a problem with science or was there one thing that caused the GPA to tank such as flunking a college level Math course taken in HS or having a bad semester due to illness. What was the problem? Could it be predictive of a poor fund of knowledge and problems in med school or is there a good explanation.

 

[williameb23]

If I see a high GPA low science GPA, then I'm curious. Does this person have a problem with science or was there one thing that caused the GPA to tank such as flunking a college level Math course taken in HS or having a bad semester due to illness. What was the problem? Could it be predictive of a poor fund of knowledge and problems in med school or is there a good explanation.

I know this differs per ADCOM and individual, but I'm curious as to the actual depth that's provided in looking at someone's GPA. If you have thousands of applications and can only budget a few minutes per app, will an ADCOM truly invest that much time into finding a problem or noticing trends in particular science courses?

 

[LizzyM]

Reviewers at my school budget 20-30 minutes per applicant after an initial screen-out based on a low GPA. If someone is going to be decline based on poor academic performance, that area of the application is going to get plenty of attention to be sure that extenuating circumstances are ruled out.

 

[Goro]

Agree 100% with my learned colleague. There are med schools that reward reinvention as per the scenario below (when combined with a great MCAT score (34+ on the old scale). A good SMP GPA shows that the you of now is not the you of then.

Non-trad who racked up many courses with a 3.0 average or better while not-pre med and then saw the light, started taking pre-med classes and did very well (3.8 or better) but can't move the GPA needle much because of so many classes earlier, is a different kettle of fish. If they aren't weeded out by an pre-screening, then they are likely to get an assessment that says, "this person may have what it takes to succeed academically, let's look at the rest of the record to see if they know what medicine is all about and have made a mature decision and have the temperament to be a good physician."

On AACOMAS forms we see your entire transcript and I look especially for good performance in Bio coursework, especially in those courses that cover med school subjects, like Anatomy, Physiology, Pharm, Micro etc. I'm not impressed by Ecology or Limnology etc.

I know this differs per ADCOM and individual, but I'm curious as to the actual depth that's provided in looking at someone's GPA. If you have thousands of applications and can only budget a few minutes per app, will an ADCOM truly invest that much time into finding a problem or noticing trends in particular science courses?