How do scumbags get into medical school?

[Rugger81]

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Wow, you're more sickened by my desire to eliminate those who corrupt medicine than by the corrupters themselves. Do you feel threatened?

Revise your last clause. You will find I never presumed applicants to be morally pure; that's why I raised the questions I did in the first place. Duh.

I remember you now. You're the guy who was chastising everyone in this forum over the LORs.

Tell me, is it hard to complete all these applications nailed to that cross?

 

[JattMed]

There is no such thing as charity. Something cannot be done without a price, something cannot be created out of nothing or may be everything is created out of nothing. Think about it............
Seriously though, I have known students in med that are lying, back-stabbing, power hungry, one-uppers, asskissers, outright liars etc., etc., it doesnt mean you are anything better just because you are in med. I will refer you to this-Everyone thinks a judge sitting on the Supreme Court bench is a great, moral leader in society, but take a peak into his/her private life and you will perhaps see that the judge is a spouse abuser, child abuser, drunk, porn addict etc., etc. That is life. In the end when all titles, accolades, power and authority are stripped you have a person, perhaps you run into them in the mall, or the video store-who knows. I think the 'original' poster of this thread is 'caught up' in the 'celebrity mind-set' wherein people give certain individuals a special status when there is no real evidence to substantiate their status except for role affiliation. Remember role affiliation and whom the person is are two distinctly different things. I apologize if this sounds 'negative' towards the 'original' thread author-it is meant to be illustrative only. Cheers.

 

[Miss Roxie]

There is no way to "screen" for truly moral people. Look at the Clergy! If you have fallen souls there why not medicine? Be realistic and realize that doctors are human too and have human frailties just like everyone else.

 

[YzIa]

Back to the OP's list of moral characteristics

a. following all laws

What happens when the laws are a detriment to practicing medicine in the best way possible, cause this has happened in the past. Where do you draw the moral line between what is legal and what is best for the patient?

For the record, I would not consider my morals to be of excellent quality, and I do not feel that this is a detriment to the possibility of competently practicing medicine.

 

[leechy]

There is no way to "screen" for truly moral people. Look at the Clergy! If you have fallen souls there why not medicine? Be realistic and realize that doctors are human too and have human frailties just like everyone else.

I agree here - it's tough to screen for altruistic motivation, because both the saintly and the mercenary pre-med would tutor kids in the inner city, take care of the elderly, etc. Hard to distinguish between them - I don't think even a forty minute interview can distinguish between them. A couple of my friends will be interviewing pre-med applicants in the years to come, and they claim they'll be able to fish around for proper motivation, and weed out the mercenaries. In reality, I think all they'll be able to weed out are the people who are not dishonest and suave enough to give the proper impression at an interview.

 

[wends]

man, scumbags get in cause people know to bs and talk the talk whether they can do **** of not. we're all on our best behavior at the interviews....no ones gonna say they want to be a doc for the money and chicks! lol, as least i hope not....

i think the key to being good at something is truly loving what you do....when doctors, as with anyone else become dissilutioned, the patients pay the price. it does suck to have a doctor thats hard to communicate with or comes off as terse, but if that doctor is busting his ass trying to help....im fine with it. in reality, people with good intentions do bad things....its life, and we have to live with the consequences.

 

[vhawk]

I have an even different perspective on the "doing ECs to look good" and "doing ECs to be altruistic"....who cares? I mean, does the kid you tutored because you wanted into med school really care what your motivation is? How about the poor girl who got a shot at the clinic you volunteered at cause you are an asskisser? This is why I say that being "greedy" and making a lot of money are your civic duty, because although Mother Teresa is fantastic, trust me, Bill Gates has helped WAY MORE people than she ever could, through both donations and taxes. But hey, if you have good intentions and do horrible things, thats better than greedily helping others right? Talk about reality check...

 

[monopolova]

I guess I just get frustrated from all these people who put charm and likeability ahead of competence, which I guess is best summed up by this claim that GPA and MCAT should be irreleveant, and they arent what makes a good doctor.

I agree with you 100%; I mean a neurosurgeon can be a real jackass but have the skills necessary to save a life. In fact, I will say that if someone doesn't have the technical requirements but they're a wonderful person, they really shouldn't get in. I support that fully.

 

[monopolova]

Back to the OP's list of moral characteristics

a. following all laws

What happens when the laws are a detriment to practicing medicine in the best way possible, cause this has happened in the past. Where do you draw the moral line between what is legal and what is best for the patient?

That is a good point. Obviously, someone should take a stand against laws that are, well, naturally unlawful. I was speaking in more of a hypothetical sense which I admit, weakens my list.

I knew it wasn't going to be easy to make such a list. 🙄

 

[Noeljan]

I am a moral relativist, and proud of it. And to go on another tangent, about this whole abortion doctors thing....any of you aCTUALLY against abortion? I guess I mean this in the vein of "Abortion IS murder" not just distasteful....Cause it always kinda makes me wonder. I know this lady says she thinks abortion is murder and these doctors are murderers....but she is lying, or if not is a horrible and weak person. Because if I knew that my next door neighbor was constantly murdering children, would it matter what the law said? Wouldnt you stop him? This is why I dont actually believe anyone is against abortion, or at least that deep down they dont really think abortion is murder. Yes, it is super late, which is my excuse for not knowing better than to bring this up, but you called me a moral relativist, so....

Vhawk this does not make sense. Who are you to say what everyone else really thinks? Sure we can't go around stopping people who have abortions even if we find them murder, for the simple fact of protecting ourselves. Sure there are a lot of murderers and rapists I would love to do something about but will I? Also, look at some families who have been victims and don't seek the death penalty or ask for pity on the one who murdered their loved one. Are you telling me they must not really believe what that person did was murder? BTW Abortion is murder and I know you must really think so 😛 because if it were so great why can't people who have had abortions even take a look at the pictures of the babies ripped apart by D & C or murdered with saline?? If it is all so right?
ok Im done here just had to say that bc your post bothered me for the simple fact that you claimed basically that people who don't believe in abortion actually really do deep down. Trust me you are wrong.

 

[monopolova]

I remember you now. You're the guy who was chastising everyone in this forum over the LORs.

Tell me, is it hard to complete all these applications nailed to that cross?

It actually makes it easier. I have more to talk about and nothing to hide. 😀

 

[NubianPrincess]

I will be interviewing ppl for the 2005-2006 cycle...MWAHAHHAHAHAHA

watch out...I am gonna get those fake little buggers...and make'em pay....lol


-Harps

Good thing i'm not in Cali 😛

 

[leechy]

BTW Abortion is murder and I know you must really think so 😛 because if it were so great why can't people who have had abortions even take a look at the pictures of the babies ripped apart by D & C or murdered with saline?? If it is all so right?

Well, people don't like to stare at roadkill all day, but it doesn't mean it's immoral. Not saying anything one way or the other about abortion - just saying that disgust can't be used as the arbiter of morality. But this is way off topic for this thread.

 

[PrettyMz4Christ]

A lot of premeds are greedy, grade-grubbers. They participate in activities not out of altruism. If med schools did not look at ECs would you all still fly to Africa for spring break to feed children?

Why does everyone want to be dermatologists? A primary care physician does as much good for his community. Why not a nurse? They are the real ones taking care of the patients.

excellent point.

 

[pathdr2b]

I was thinking of how schools are looking for people with certain qualities (honesty, moral aptitude, honorable motivations, etc.) and how the process is designed to weed out the undesirables.

With the letters of rec. and the interviews and the personal statements, how do people like Dr. Kevorkian, strip mall plastic surgeons, pharmaceutical reward addicts, etc. get into med school in the first place? I'm thinking that perhaps people change and become sleaze balls, but then again, what would that say about the state of the profession?

Unless you've had to personally watch someone suffer and die from a disease like cancer, I don't think you should make generalities about Dr.Kevorkian's character. And I'm not talking about that glossy stuff you see on TV or even the "reality" shows about doctors. I'm talking about cleaning up someones vomit, bowel, and every other excreted body fluid/material you can think of.

 

[monopolova]

Unless you've had to personally watch someone suffer and die from a disease like cancer, I don't think you should make generalities about Dr.Kevorkian's character. And I'm not talking about that glossy stuff you see on TV or even the "reality" shows about doctors. I'm talking about cleaning up someones vomit, bowel, and every other excreted body fluid/material you can think of.

As an objectivist, I have a problem with his ideology in that I think it's f@#$ed up. That said, for me it was an apt example. For others, it may not be, but I think my general idea has been conveyed. 👍

 

[Howard Roark]

good luck

 

[monopolova]

Quit monopolizing the term "moral" as if MORAL = your morals. Everybody has a "moral" code that they live by. Some are the same as yours and some are not. If you mean christian "morals" then please state it as such. This always reminds me of the way people talk about Q-tips or "cotton swabs." Q-tip is just one brand of cotton swab yet people now use the term Q-tip to mean all cotton swabs. Same with the term "moral." Christian morality, Islamic morality, Buddist morality, atheist morality, whatever morality all have their own "morals" so quit using "morals" to mean your morals only.


.

Yes, by definition everyone is "moral" in that everyone has a specific morality. Yes, who I view as immoral may not be immoral to others. That being said, I think it is obvious that I used the term "moral" with the assumption that our respective morals are not so different as to completely conflict. After all, I think that if we wrote a list of "things doctors should not do", most of the same things would appear on each of our lists. 🙂

Furthermore, while each religion (or lack of such) contains its own traditions and dogmas, many aspects of their moralities overlap. I was also hoping this would also be implicit in my use of the term "morals".

Also, I admit ignorance when I first posted: I did not realize Kevorkian had such large following. My apologies.

 

[pseudoknot]

Everybody has a "moral" code that they live by.

No, unfortunately that's not true. Many if not most people I know do not have any consistently applied moral or ethical standards to which they will hold even if it is not in their immediate interest to do so. Most people will say they believe in this or that, but then just do whatever they want to.

I respect people who genuinely try to uphold their own beliefs, even if those are different from mine, but this is pretty rare. (Unless those beliefs are really abhorrent to me; I'm not a big fan of, say, consistently applied racism, but you get the idea.)

 

[Long Dong]

😱

 

[frank51]

As many have mentioned, doctors are human beings, just like judges, lawyers, CEOs, etc?things like money, power and authority can corrupt anyone, as jrdnbenjamin mentioned, there are very few people who can adhere to their moral principles when tempted, even those who are religious will find very hard to adhere to the rules set forth by their religion. As for the Medical School admissions, I truly believe that if you have a great GPA and MCAT, and can hold a 30 min. conversation, you?re admitted. Now, let?s turn the situation around, say you don?t have a good GPA and MCAT, but you?ve some how shown that you're smart, intelligent, mature, compassionate, committed, moral, social, etc. I?m willing to bet that chances are you wont get admitted, unless you?re a URM.

 

[Rugger81]

i dunno monopolova, i definitely consider myself morally superior to you. so if you get in, let us know how.

 

[Long Dong]

There are scum bags in every profession, just so happens most of them have a JD not an MD.

 

[vhawk]

You know SOME people who dont live by an consistently applied code of morality or conduct? I think that basically eeryone lives by the principle "Look out for numero uno." This isnt to say its bad, I think it is the only morality that truly exists, if you can call it that. Its called survival, and I dont mean that in terms of just not dying. I had an argument with my roomate freshman year about "good," specifically in terms of doing charity. I argued that there is no such thing as a selfless act, and while my argument was a bit reductionist, it boiled down to some people do good deeds cause it makes them feel good....some people do heroin cause it makes them feel good. People do what they want, and if it fits into what they think is their morality, thats fine. If not, they have cognitive dissonance, and will change their MORALITY, not their behavior, most often. Its ok, but the statement about moral=moral to you is a very good point.

 

[cooldreams]

I am a moral relativist, and proud of it. And to go on another tangent, about this whole abortion doctors thing....any of you aCTUALLY against abortion? I guess I mean this in the vein of "Abortion IS murder" not just distasteful....Cause it always kinda makes me wonder. I know this lady says she thinks abortion is murder and these doctors are murderers....but she is lying, or if not is a horrible and weak person. Because if I knew that my next door neighbor was constantly murdering children, would it matter what the law said? Wouldnt you stop him? This is why I dont actually believe anyone is against abortion, or at least that deep down they dont really think abortion is murder. Yes, it is super late, which is my excuse for not knowing better than to bring this up, but you called me a moral relativist, so....

1) moral relativist = if i think its morally right for now, then i may or may not do it. that is not to say that later on i may change my mind, again.

2) yes, abortion is bad, in all cases, and i am against it.

3) is anyone against abortion? i suppose you have not heard of the many organizations protesting them, or petitioning law makers, or even the ppl that go so far as to bomb the abortion "clinics". i think you are out of touch with reality to ask that question.

 

[cooldreams]

You know SOME people who dont live by an consistently applied code of morality or conduct? I think that basically eeryone lives by the principle "Look out for numero uno." This isnt to say its bad, I think it is the only morality that truly exists, if you can call it that. Its called survival, and I dont mean that in terms of just not dying. I had an argument with my roomate freshman year about "good," specifically in terms of doing charity. I argued that there is no such thing as a selfless act, and while my argument was a bit reductionist, it boiled down to some people do good deeds cause it makes them feel good....some people do heroin cause it makes them feel good. People do what they want, and if it fits into what they think is their morality, thats fine. If not, they have cognitive dissonance, and will change their MORALITY, not their behavior, most often. Its ok, but the statement about moral=moral to you is a very good point.

1) " I think that basically eeryone lives by the principle "Look out for numero uno." " *buzz* wrong again. there are actually ppl that exist outside of your own personal world. step outside of your sphere of comfort... it is a pretty amazing place out there..

2) "some people do good deeds cause it makes them feel good....some people do heroin cause it makes them feel good." wow... so you have now equated charity to snorting for a buzz? hey man, whatever floats your boat i guess. Good? let me pick up here in place of your absent roommate. Good is not relative. God is Good. God is an absolute. Any deviation from Good is bad. A selfless act , sometimes termed charity, is one in which the person doing the selfless act gains nothing for themself, all to help another, hence the term selfless. snorting weed , or shooting up or whatever is something most likely you are addicted to and have lost control of your self, you are sick.

 

[vhawk]

Ok cooldreams, so let me sum up your arguments.

In response to 1), I am wrong because of "buzz"

And in response to 2) I am wrong because of God?

I wasnt saying heroin and charity are the same, I was just giving the example that if you do it because you like it or it makes you feel good, its not selfless. HOWEVER, that doesnt make it bad or wrong, its still a lot cooler than doing heroin, and people should do things that make them feel good, and if they help others at the same time, bonus points. Sorry, I dont have a buzzer sound effect for my bonus points.

 

[PostalWookie]

Priests are supposed to be all moral and upstanding, but even they occasionally like to grab a little boy or two.

 

[cooldreams]

Priests are supposed to be all moral and upstanding, but even they occasionally like to grab a little boy or two.

BAMB right there, catholics are not christians. the catholic church was started by the roman empire putting together a number of religions to apease the unknowing/stupid masses of ppl. this eventually led to the catholic church/"sexual predator priests"...

 

[cooldreams]

Ok cooldreams, so let me sum up your arguments.

In response to 1), I am wrong because of "buzz"

And in response to 2) I am wrong because of God?

I wasnt saying heroin and charity are the same, I was just giving the example that if you do it because you like it or it makes you feel good, its not selfless. HOWEVER, that doesnt make it bad or wrong, its still a lot cooler than doing heroin, and people should do things that make them feel good, and if they help others at the same time, bonus points. Sorry, I dont have a buzzer sound effect for my bonus points.

"In response to 1), I am wrong because of "buzz"" if that is all you got out of it, that is your problem, not mine.

"And in response to 2) I am wrong because of God" you will always be wrong because you stand in defiance of God. good luck in life.

 

[jazger]

BAMB right there, catholics are not christians.

ummm...what? 😕

 

[SlopinMunkyDude]

I am a moral relativist, and proud of it. And to go on another tangent, about this whole abortion doctors thing....any of you aCTUALLY against abortion? I guess I mean this in the vein of "Abortion IS murder" not just distasteful....Cause it always kinda makes me wonder. I know this lady says she thinks abortion is murder and these doctors are murderers....but she is lying, or if not is a horrible and weak person. Because if I knew that my next door neighbor was constantly murdering children, would it matter what the law said? Wouldnt you stop him? This is why I dont actually believe anyone is against abortion, or at least that deep down they dont really think abortion is murder. Yes, it is super late, which is my excuse for not knowing better than to bring this up, but you called me a moral relativist, so....

No, no one is against abortion. 🙄 It's all just a lie to cover for their moral relativism. Does it bother you that your life amounts to a tub of water-down oatmeal?

 

[Fed Meat]

I argued that there is no such thing as a selfless act, and while my argument was a bit reductionist, it boiled down to some people do good deeds cause it makes them feel good....some people do heroin cause it makes them feel good.

But you ignore the reason that it makes them feel good. A moral code is not limited to a single moment. Someone may remember another incident in their life where they were in pain and wish to console another as they had been consoled. That is far more of a moral action than taking drugs. The former requires human empathy. The latter is not really any different than a rat pressing a lever.

Say I see a little girl lost in the street. I could simply bring her to her mother. Or I could leave her there. Or I could intentionally point her away from places people would go. Or I could attempt to console her and bring her to her mother. There are several options that I could choose that would make me feel better. One would make me feel better than the other, however, as I have spent a lifetime dealing with human empathy. I really have nothing to gain from this particular situation other than the idea that maybe someone else would do the same for my children.

**OR** that I have upheld my value system that I have reached through logic, instruction, personal commitment, and personal experience.

Morality isn't limited to a moment. It's a way of life.

 

[Jeff3614]

Defining morality is a futile endeavor, especially considering so many of our experiences, which determine our morals, are framed by our own point of view.

My biggest problem with the comments in this thread is that the term 'scumbag' is being placed onto a select group of people like Dr. Kevorkian, strip mall plastic surgeons, and pharmaceutical reward addicts. What exactly is a Phamaceutical reward addict or a strip mall plastic surgeon, I'd really like to know? Why are these people being labeled as morally bankrupt?

By the way, morality questions are easy to answer if you just tell the truth.

-Jeff-

 

[Fed Meat]

I didn't get the whole stripmall plastic surgeon comment, either.

I'm not going to buy into the more moral relativist crap, though. There are certain values that you can't help but realize if you're a living, breathing human who has actually seen another human.

 

[xSTALLiONx]

"In response to 1), I am wrong because of "buzz"" if that is all you got out of it, that is your problem, not mine.

"And in response to 2) I am wrong because of God" you will always be wrong because you stand in defiance of God. good luck in life.

lol

interesting little zealot..
can't handle living in a world without meaning huh..

To Everyone Else:
Join Scientology! 😛

 

[cooldreams]

But you ignore the reason that it makes them feel good. A moral code is not limited to a single moment. Someone may remember another incident in their life where they were in pain and wish to console another as they had been consoled. That is far more of a moral action than taking drugs. The former requires human empathy. The latter is not really any different than a rat pressing a lever.

Say I see a little girl lost in the street. I could simply bring her to her mother. Or I could leave her there. Or I could intentionally point her away from places people would go. Or I could attempt to console her and bring her to her mother. There are several options that I could choose that would make me feel better. One would make me feel better than the other, however, as I have spent a lifetime dealing with human empathy. I really have nothing to gain from this particular situation other than the idea that maybe someone else would do the same for my children.

**OR** that I have upheld my value system that I have reached through logic, instruction, personal commitment, and personal experience.

Morality isn't limited to a moment. It's a way of life.

"Morality isn't limited to a moment. It's a way of life."

nicely put.

 

[cooldreams]

ummm...what? 😕

ever read the catholic catechism?? it lists a huge number of changes that they have decided to make based on their supposed god given abilities to never be wrong. whatever. but essentially, from the very start, the catholic(catholic means "universal") church has been a huge deviation from the truth that is christianity. eye opener?? hope so! READ!!!! new sabbath, no longer need to observe the sabbath, keep killing a real living jesus every sunday, pope is appointed, pope is never wrong, pope given title of vicar of christ, mary was and ALWAYS was a virgin, jesus didnt have any brothers through mary, dont worship or pray to mary or any number of other saints just asking them for help, not bowing to an idol but "genuflecting", and on and on and on... none of that is biblical... but is still all fundamentals for catholics... for these and many other reasons, i say catholics are not christians... catholics will try and say otherwise... mormons think they are christians, not... jehovahs witnesses think so, nope...

you do not earn/buy/whatever your way to heaven. it is FREELY given to you. Just ask God. Accept Jesus as your savior who died on the cross for you already!! Accept it! Grace of God is freely given.

 

[cooldreams]

lol

interesting little zealot..
can't handle living in a world without meaning huh..

To Everyone Else:
Join Scientology! 😛

ahh zealot... eh, i suppose... i am happy to be strong in my faith, most ppl are not.

also, i dont have to handle "living in a world without meaning" because such a world truely does not exist, except perhaps in your personal little world. sure sure, "the atoms on our finger nails are entire universes for entire different species"... sure sure.... whatever.... its your choice to believe the truth or fiction.

 

[WatchingWaiting]

ever read the catholic catechism?? it lists a huge number of changes that they have decided to make based on their supposed god given abilities to never be wrong. whatever. but essentially, from the very start, the catholic(catholic means "universal") church has been a huge deviation from the truth that is christianity. eye opener?? hope so! READ!!!! new sabbath, no longer need to observe the sabbath, keep killing a real living jesus every sunday, pope is appointed, pope is never wrong, pope given title of vicar of christ, mary was and ALWAYS was a virgin, jesus didnt have any brothers through mary, dont worship or pray to mary or any number of other saints just asking them for help, not bowing to an idol but "genuflecting", and on and on and on... none of that is biblical... but is still all fundamentals for catholics... for these and many other reasons, i say catholics are not christians... catholics will try and say otherwise... mormons think they are christians, not... jehovahs witnesses think so, nope...

you do not earn/buy/whatever your way to heaven. it is FREELY given to you. Just ask God. Accept Jesus as your savior who died on the cross for you already!! Accept it! Grace of God is freely given.

1) Has it occurred to you that the love and approval of God as a motivation for charity is selfish? The reward for selflessness or service to your fellow man or however you put it is external validation from either society or God, depending on your beliefs. If you believe that you will be in Heaven for billions and billions of years for following God's orders, and everyone else will be burning in Hell, flesh writing in perpetual agony for billions and billions of years for not doing "selfless" deeds, are you really being selfless?

2) Do you really mean to argue that there was no Christian church and pretty much no Christians from 400 AD-1500AD? Because there was nothing aside from the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox demoninations on the Jesus-loving front during that period.

 

[monopolova]

People hate, literally hate, the Catholic Church because it is so structured. It has rules (some people just can't handle that). It uses both philosophy and faith to mold an ordered brand of "Church".

Instead of spending so much time harping on the Catholic Church which teaches, like the majority of other Christian faiths, that:

1. Jesus Christ, the Son of God, died for our sins.
2. Abortion is wrong.
3. Homosexual relationships are wrong.
4. Pre-Marital Sex is wrong.
5. etc.

,spend some time evangelizing to those who have zero faith in Jesus instead of dwelling on traditions that only enhance faith and belief in Jesus Christ as the one true Lord and Savior. People like Chick and his tracts need to wake up to the real evils of this world; I wonder if Cooldreams would be so outspoken against radical Islam. You probably wouldn't want to offend anybody or be called intolerant.

Everything the Catholic Church does is viewed as ancient and wrong and yet other Christians do the same things. Other Christians confess to each other. Other Christians anoint each other with water and oils. Other Christians speak in tongues.

But when it comes to Catholics, it's all one big joke and the Church is a trash heap because it's simply such an easy target. If the Catholic Church has one problem it's that it's always on the defensive end of things: it needs to stand strong and feel free to speak its mind and beliefs to the ignorant.

 

[Phil Anthropist]

ever read the catholic catechism?? it lists a huge number of changes that they have decided to make based on their supposed god given abilities to never be wrong. whatever. but essentially, from the very start, the catholic(catholic means "universal") church has been a huge deviation from the truth that is christianity. eye opener?? hope so! READ!!!! new sabbath, no longer need to observe the sabbath, keep killing a real living jesus every sunday, pope is appointed, pope is never wrong, pope given title of vicar of christ, mary was and ALWAYS was a virgin, jesus didnt have any brothers through mary, dont worship or pray to mary or any number of other saints just asking them for help, not bowing to an idol but "genuflecting", and on and on and on... none of that is biblical... but is still all fundamentals for catholics... for these and many other reasons, i say catholics are not christians... catholics will try and say otherwise... mormons think they are christians, not... jehovahs witnesses think so, nope...

you do not earn/buy/whatever your way to heaven. it is FREELY given to you. Just ask God. Accept Jesus as your savior who died on the cross for you already!! Accept it! Grace of God is freely given.

I read this message from a moderator in a Christian themed thread:

There is a policy that prophetizing (e.g. posting material in attempts to convert others to your faith) is not allowed.

I think the didacticism of your last two lines is pretty questionable, but don't worry I'm not reporting you.

I must say that I don't like the tone of your message. I think you paint a very inaccurate picture of the Catholic faith by many of your comments. I consider myself a devout Catholic (or so I try). I'm not here to start a debate with you. But to be honest, your portrayal of the Catholic faith is not only in many ways inaccurate (e.g. your understanding of ex cathedra, infallibility, to name a few), it is also offensive. I'm not sure how you guys digressed from the thread's theme and I don't really care, but please refrain from misrepresenting and attacking other faiths. Thanks.

Phil

 

[velo]

I argued that there is no such thing as a selfless act, and while my argument was a bit reductionist, it boiled down to some people do good deeds cause it makes them feel good....some people do heroin cause it makes them feel good.

yeah....but I think what makes someone really "moral" is not how they act when the moral act is the one that makes them feel good....but how they act when the moral act is difficult--not fun, but right.

 

[cooldreams]

I read this message from a moderator in a Christian themed thread:

I think the didacticism of your last two lines is pretty questionable, but don't worry I'm not reporting you.

I must say that I don't like the tone of your message. I think you paint a very inaccurate picture of the Catholic faith by many of your comments. I consider myself a devout Catholic (or so I try). I'm not here to start a debate with you. But to be honest, your portrayal of the Catholic faith is not only in many ways inaccurate (e.g. your understanding of ex cathedra, infallibility, to name a few), it is also offensive. I'm not sure how you guys digressed from the thread's theme and I don't really care, but please refrain from misrepresenting and attacking other faiths. Thanks.

Phil

"I think the didacticism of your last two lines is pretty questionable, but don't worry I'm not reporting you."

please point out how what i said is not on the same tones of what was said to me? i hate it when ppl pick on the christian talk, but let things like witchcraft, islam, buhdas, etc to continue.... ADDITIONALLY!!! i didnt say YOU HAVE TO do anything, i just pointed out the fundamentals of christianity. if you have a problem with learning about another religion speak up as to why you are so close minded. I have learned of many different religions - i had to to be able to intelligentally discuss them.

Now for the catholic doctrine. I assure you i know it quite well, additionally, I would LOVE to have a debate on it if you are up to it.

ex cathedra/infallibility or *basically* never wrong. this is used historically to validate what the church has deemed to be new laws or interpretations that are concerning the church and not the pope's private life. it is also convienetly argued that it does not apply in all cases. this makes aboslutely no sense if you think about it. people watch what you do when you are in the spot light. whether or not you do something *officially in the name of* makes no difference. the first "pope" was to be peter who has gone on record (the bible) as denying Jesus!!! whether this is of official church matters or not make no difference. he did that to save his own skin.

I have argued many points with many people about this. i know it quite well because my parents are catholic, and so i was raised as such.

to the question about the existance of the church from 400-1500ad, well, what happend to 400ad and BEFORE?? did all of that just disappear over night??? mmm hmm.....

To the statement about hating the catholic church. i do not hate the people in it that attend it because they think that is what they are to do as told by God. I DO think the people at the top are wrong and KNOW they are wrong, that know what is really going on, but continue to allow the things go on as they do.

I do not hate it for its structure, structure is good, when mandated by the bible. adding laws or changing laws that are very clear in the bible is, to me, VERY VERY WRONG.

"I wonder if Cooldreams would be so outspoken against radical Islam."

hah yea actually i am, check out my past posts. i am very outspoken on this all of the time and am not afraid to talk about it.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=1345629&postcount=71

I wear clothes that inspire people to strike up conversations with me about it. I make a point to never "START" the conversation, but i always follow through. I love to discuss it because it shows me where i am lacking in knowledge i.e. i learn where i need to learn more, and then do so.

have a great day. 👍

 

[Harps]

Good thing i'm not in Cali 😛

LOL......you're FAKE ..........noooooooooooo....you mean all that stuff you said in chat wasn't true 😉 Gosh...you have had me waiting with bated breath..... 😉

-Harps

 

[Bman143]

instead of b?tching about the immorality you perceive in others (and an admissions process that we have NO control over), why not just try to be a good person yourself?

there have been sleazy people in all professions since time began. this is nothing new. and honestly, do you really believe that a high paying career like a physician attracts only the morally pure? get real.

I totally agree. We will always be surrounded by people who have differing priorities and different values. I guess it will come down to who ends up with a better practice....

Commercial! I'm gunna go get some graham crackers!

 

[Phil Anthropist]

"I think the didacticism of your last two lines is pretty questionable, but don't worry I'm not reporting you."

please point out how what i said is not on the same tones of what was said to me? i hate it when ppl pick on the christian talk, but let things like witchcraft, islam, buhdas, etc to continue.... ADDITIONALLY!!! i didnt say YOU HAVE TO do anything, i just pointed out the fundamentals of christianity. if you have a problem with learning about another religion speak up as to why you are so close minded. I have learned of many different religions - i had to to be able to intelligentally discuss them.

(1) Regarding tone: If you are referring to OTHER users, I probably didn't read their posts. I saw yours. It's your lucky day!!! If you were referring to ME, I simply made objective statements about MY faith. I made no mention of trying to get other people to be Catholic. For that reason I don't believe my comments in any way were used in an attempt to encourage others to join my religious faith.
(2) Other faiths: There were some threads on Judaism and Islam. I didn't read them because I don't have a sufficient understandings of those faiths. However, I think threads started in an effort to belittle those faiths are just plain bad. I plan to read the major religious texts of all the world religions before I discuss them in any depth...
(3) As much as you want to say that you pointed out the fundamentals of Christianity, I can assure you that some of those comments you made DO NOT APPLY to all Christian religions. One of my best friends is an Evangelical, non-denominational Christian. She said thing similar to what you mentioned in your last two lines. I can tell you as a FACT that the fundamentals of Christianity of which you speak do not apply to all Christian religions. Specifically, those fundamentals are not true for Roman Catholicism, Russian Orthodox, Church of England, and certain forms of the Lutheran faith.

Now for the catholic doctrine. I assure you i know it quite well, additionally, I would LOVE to have a debate on it if you are up to it.

That's not why I come to SDN! 😀 I reserve my debates for priests that don't know what they're doing. *cough* *cough* *Jesuits at my previous college* *cough* *cough*

ex cathedra/infallibility or *basically* never wrong. this is used historically to validate what the church has deemed to be new laws or interpretations that are concerning the church and not the pope's private life. it is also convienetly argued that it does not apply in all cases. this makes aboslutely no sense if you think about it. people watch what you do when you are in the spot light. whether or not you do something *officially in the name of* makes no difference. the first "pope" was to be peter who has gone on record (the bible) as denying Jesus!!! whether this is of official church matters or not make no difference. he did that to save his own skin.

I still don't *think* you understand it. You started out pretty good there and then, I'm not so sure... 😀 Tell me this, do you know how many times Papal infallibility has been used? Furthermore, infallibility is used as a reaffirmation of OLDER core beliefs, not new ones. People seem to think that infallibility means, "The Pope can't ever say anything wrong." That's just not true.

Have a nice day 🙂

Phil

 

[Skoundrel]

Man, that's a really tall horse you're riding around on.

Please knock her on her butt!

 

[Dr Trek 1]

You have to understand that nowadays many people use medical school as a glorified science graduate school ("Hey! I'm great at bio, why get a PhD when I can get an MD?"). Also, many people apply to medical school with incredibly resumes (PhDs, the Pope, other health care professionals, future US presidents, etc.) Of course anyone can write a personal statement about how they saved the life of a poor Ethiopian during spring break with their first aid kit, but it doesn't really matter if you have the grades the back it up.

The reason why scumbags can get into medical school is because... ready? The only thing that matters for med school admissions are your GPA and MCAT score. Anyone can sit in an interview and say they want to help people. But not anyone can sit in an interview and smile about their 4.0 GPA, PhD in genetics, and 45 MCAT score. Schools know this and that's why they have to place such an emphasis on GPA and MCAT score.

So, basically, a future Adolf Hitler could apply to med school with a 4.0 GPA and 45 MCAT score, and sit in an interview and smile and say he wants to help people, and easily gain admission to any school he wants. Should the interview matter more? Absolutely. I for one believe that if medical school admissions was based on motivation and true characteristics required to be a great physician, it would be even more competitive than it is now. However, this is much more subjective than MCAT scores and GPA, and more difficult to measure accurately.

However, just wait until I give med school interviews;-)

 

[medtechv79]

lmao First, I expect they be morally acceptable -- not pure.

Second, doctors hold an important position in society -- they preserve health and life. In order to fulfill such an awesome responsibility, one needs a certain level of character and dedication. For example, people just looking to make a buck will do whatever they want to (including bypass those pesky laws and regulations) to make that buck. You and I, presumably, assume that the laws and regulations desserve to be followed because a. it is innately correct to do so, and b. such laws provide the pleasing side effect of saving lives!

Doctors are faced with tough decisions every day since they deal with life every day. Wouldn't it be natural that ethics be an important quality necessary to guide their actions lest they choose an action motivated by greed or sloth that ultimately puts another human being in peril?

That's true...but look at LA police officers...they're supposed to be upholding the law but yet they're just as corrupt as a politician....u know the Tupac Shakur case? Yeah I think some cops were involved in that coverup or shootout or something....so any profession has its sleazebags!!! (ie. President Bill Clinton-good president, bad morals and he represented our country!!!)