How do you cope with the Lack of Sleep during Clinicials/Residency?

[secants]

So basically, I'm curious to know what you guys do to cope with this. For many it's probably caffeine but that works only up to a point.

I'm just trying to figure out what I would do since I need x amount of sleep no matter what or I can't function period.

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[smq123]

So basically, I'm curious to know what you guys do to cope with this. For many it's probably caffeine but that works only up to a point.

I'm just trying to figure out what I would do since I need x amount of sleep no matter what or I can't function period.

* Espresso, espresso, espresso. (Except during surgery - you can't necessarily go to the bathroom whenever you feel like it, so fluid restriction and no caffeine is really important.)

* Try to sign up for a rotation site that has minimal overnight call responsibilities.

* Organize your day as efficiently as possible. Carry around things to study with you so that, when you have downtime, you can get some reading done. Study a little bit each day. Make the most of whatever free days you get.

* As for residency - hope and pray that you fall in love with a lifestyle specialty.

(How much is "x"? If "x" is 9 hours or so, you might be in a fair amount of trouble. If "x" is 6-7, then you'll find a way to make it all do-able.)

 

[Blade28]

* Espresso, espresso, espresso. (Except during surgery - you can't necessarily go to the bathroom whenever you feel like it, so fluid restriction and no caffeine is really important.)

You're an espresso drinker?!

Agree with the above question - exactly how many hours of sleep do you need, OP? 8? 6? 10?

 

[Kubed]

I've trained my entire life not to sleep. So far it's working out.

 

[Law2Doc]

I'm just trying to figure out what I would do since I need x amount of sleep no matter what or I can't function period.

You have to break out of this or you are basically going to be screwed for rotations. Going for lengthy stretches of 5-6 hours of sleep a night average is the norm in some rotations. Having overnight call a couple of times a week where you get no sleep and make it up 30 hours later is the norm for others. Most people are reasonably functional on 5 hours of sleep a night for an extended duration, and most can go a 35 hour stretch every couple of days with no real adverse effects. Rotation and most residencies test these theories regularly. If you are the type that needs 8 hours a night, you are in big trouble, plain and simple. Even most of the lifestyle specialties referenced by smq are going to expect you to excel in rotations (meaning the long hours and a decent amount of reading on top of that), and most require a year of medicine or surgery residency (internship) before starting into the cushier schedule. So you have some big hurdles to overcome.

If, like the rest of us, you are pretty tired but functional at the 5-6 hour mark, you probably will be fine.

 

[lord_jeebus]

Before 3rd year I needed 9 hours to be remotely functional.

The transition to 4-6 hours was rough but worked out surprisingly well. I just got used to it. Now I sometimes sleep only 6 hours even if I have time to sleep more!

 

[Anka]

I think part of the adjustment to less sleep is lowering your expectations for how you feel. I feel kinda cruddy on 4 hours of sleep, even more so on 2 hours of sleep, but I'm pretty functional long term on 4 and short term on 2. My motivation is the first thing to go, so I make sure I have a list of the things I need to do and do everything on the list.

As far as coffee, I used to be a coffee drinker (like, a lot), and I thought it helped. One of my mentors told me I should quit about a month ago, and having quit I have to say I wouldn't go back. When I get a chance to sleep I can fall asleep in an instant, and it's higher quality sleep. At the same time, once the initial effects of withdrawal passed, I haven't felt any worse. Indeed, it's nice not to be reliant on the morning cup of coffee (and scrambling around to get it) when you're running late or on a busy service.

Anka

 

[colbgw02]

Cocaine is a helluva drug. - Rick James

 

[SoCuteMD]

* Espresso, espresso, espresso. (Except during surgery - you can't necessarily go to the bathroom whenever you feel like it, so fluid restriction and no caffeine is really important.)

* Try to sign up for a rotation site that has minimal overnight call responsibilities.

* Organize your day as efficiently as possible. Carry around things to study with you so that, when you have downtime, you can get some reading done. Study a little bit each day. Make the most of whatever free days you get.

* As for residency - hope and pray that you fall in love with a lifestyle specialty.

(How much is "x"? If "x" is 9 hours or so, you might be in a fair amount of trouble. If "x" is 6-7, then you'll find a way to make it all do-able.)

I drank way less caffeine on surgery than any other rotation - in part because I didn't want to have to pee during that 6 hour lap chole (I'm not even kidding) and in part because there was no time to get a cup of coffee AND drink it!

I actually like overnight call better than "short call." Even though you are up all night, you can go home and crash the next morning. On short call for surgery I was at the hospital until 11, midnight, even 1 sometimes but still had to be in and work a full day starting at 5 the next day. That usually translated to >5 hours of sleep followed by a full work day.

Over this year I've become very accustomed to 6 hours of sleep, which used to feel like far too little for me before. 4 hours feels kind of gross, but with a nice hot shower to start the day I can get through a full work day on it. 8 hours sleep now feels like quite a luxury!

 

[smq123]

I actually like overnight call better than "short call." Even though you are up all night, you can go home and crash the next morning.

They let you go home the next morning after call?

 

[SoCuteMD]

They let you go home the next morning after call?

The only rotation I had overnight call on was surgery, and that was just the weekends so we were sent home after signout the next AM. During the week we had "short" call. I know some students don't get a post-call day, but most of the students I know (at other schools) have them. You stayed and worked a full day after overnight call?

 

[smq123]

The only rotation I had overnight call on was surgery, and that was just the weekends so we were sent home after signout the next AM. During the week we had "short" call. I know some students don't get a post-call day, but most of the students I know (at other schools) have them. You stayed and worked a full day after overnight call?

Theoretically, you're supposed to be treated like a resident - you go home at noon on post call days.

Whether or not this always happens, though - that's different. It wasn't always feasible to just quietly leave in the middle of a big onc case or a long vascular case.

But I agree with you on short call - I think short call can be more brutal than regular call.

(And a 6 hour lap chole? Ouch. Did they make you drive the camera the entire time?)

 

[SoCuteMD]

Theoretically, you're supposed to be treated like a resident - you go home at noon on post call days.

Whether or not this always happens, though - that's different. It wasn't always feasible to just quietly leave in the middle of a big onc case or a long vascular case.

But I agree with you on short call - I think short call can be more brutal than regular call.

(And a 6 hour lap chole? Ouch. Did they make you drive the camera the entire time?)

I guess weekends are a bit of a different beast - very few cases at the hospital I was at.

Yes, it was a 6 hour lap chole. And I had the camera for a most of it - the resident might have held camera for 30 mins or so. I thought my arms were going to fall off!

 

[Ypo.]

I never had a problem with this unless I went to bed late (which I often do).

I haven't had surgery yet, though.

 

[beastmaster]

On rotations, it's real simple. Sleep as much as you need. If your surgery rotation is 6am - 7pm. Then you go to sleep from 8pm - 5am and get your 9 hrs if you really need it that day. Prioritize sleep as you would anything else, despite the chorus of monkeys here telling you to drink coffee and "get used to it." Internship/residency will be a bit diff, but we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.

 

[smq123]

On rotations, it's real simple. Sleep as much as you need. If your surgery rotation is 6am - 7pm. Then you go to sleep from 8pm - 5am and get your 9 hrs if you really need it that day. Prioritize sleep as you would anything else, despite the chorus of monkeys here telling you to drink coffee and "get used to it."

Except....

• Mandatory trauma call or SICU call kind of screws that up.
• I had to prepare 5 presentations during a 6 week rotation. If I went to bed an hour after I got home, and woke up an hour before work, that would never get done.
• The shelf IS kind of hard...so studying for that might be REALLY REALLY important....
• Dude, if your surgery rotation required you to be there at 6 AM, then congratulations. I had to be there at 5 AM each day for mine (the intern was there at 4 or 4:30), and I ended at 7:30 or 8.

 

[Ashers]

On rotations, it's real simple. Sleep as much as you need. If your surgery rotation is 6am - 7pm. Then you go to sleep from 8pm - 5am and get your 9 hrs if you really need it that day. Prioritize sleep as you would anything else, despite the chorus of monkeys here telling you to drink coffee and "get used to it." Internship/residency will be a bit diff, but we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.

I agree with this. On surgery and OB/gyn, my friends were amazed that I'd actually go to bed early to get as much sleep as possible. I aim for 8hrs/night, and I typically get it, but there were some nights that I didn't get home until 10 and I had to be up at 3-3:30 to be in by 4:30-4:45 or so. Not fun. My surgery services had decent call schedules -- no overnight call, and if you were already home, they generally wouldn't call you back in. (On CT surgery, I managed to get killed on the weekends by always having emergency surgeries -- typically cardiac cases that lasted hours on hours.)

On OB/gyn when I had overnight in house call, I'd drink a lot of water to stay awake.

Now that I'm on outpatient peds, I'm getting spoiled with a lot of sleep, and I'll be screwed next month when I switch to inpatient medicine. =(

 

[beastmaster]

Except....

• Mandatory trauma call or SICU call kind of screws that up.
• I had to prepare 5 presentations during a 6 week rotation. If I went to bed an hour after I got home, and woke up an hour before work, that would never get done.
• The shelf IS kind of hard...so studying for that might be REALLY REALLY important....
• Dude, if your surgery rotation required you to be there at 6 AM, then congratulations. I had to be there at 5 AM each day for mine (the intern was there at 4 or 4:30), and I ended at 7:30 or 8.

Unless your call is more frequent than once per week, you're consistently doing 100+ weekly hrs?? These days, for a student, that's just dumb. Fight for your rights amigo. But maybe my surgery rotation was just better. They realized that there's nothing useful for a student to do before 6am. If your program is abusing you, I'm sorry. But I had weekly presentations too. You're entitled to atleast 1 weekend day off. Prepare it then. I did cover a call for a friend once, went over 100 hrs, was a bit tough, but I slept when I could and with some creativity managed just fine.

I think it's more important to be awake and alert during morning report, grand rounds, conferences, etc... real education; versus being half-asleep during teaching rounds and reading case files for 3 hrs at night and trying to memorize raynaud's pentad in a sleep-deprived state.

But like I said -- if you really WANT sleep, it's possible. If you're looking for excuses, there's plenty to be found. Either way, surgery is only a few months, subspecialty weeks tend to start later around 7am.

 

[docjolly]

On rotations, it's real simple. Sleep as much as you need. If your surgery rotation is 6am - 7pm. Then you go to sleep from 8pm - 5am and get your 9 hrs if you really need it that day. Prioritize sleep as you would anything else, despite the chorus of monkeys here telling you to drink coffee and "get used to it." Internship/residency will be a bit diff, but we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.

i definitely agree with this. no amount of coffee (and btw I'm a heavy coffee drinker) can attempt to compensate for me being dead tired. the most important thing that i've done throughout my 3rd year is prioritize sleep...whenever, however I could get it. when i had surgery and had to be at the hospital at 4:00am (which was most days), i made sure that i got to be at least be 9/10pm-ish so that I'd have my minimal 6 to function. i didn't care that i hadn't read up on the surgery for the next day. I needed sleep.

 

[smq123]

Unless your call is more frequent than once per week, you're consistently doing 100+ weekly hrs?? These days, for a student, that's just dumb.

We were supposed to be on call q4, although that didn't always work out. But yes, as close to q4 as they could make it.

They realized that there's nothing useful for a student to do before 6am.

What time did your OR get started? We were doing some long cases, so we almost always had to be in the holding area by 7:00, to meet the patient. If I didn't get there before 5:30 at least, there's no way that I could have pre-rounded AND run the list.

Maybe it's service dependent?

But I had weekly presentations too. You're entitled to atleast 1 weekend day off. Prepare it then.

Did I mention that I was given < 24 hours notice for some of these weekly presentations?

I think it's more important to be awake and alert during morning report, grand rounds, conferences, etc... real education;

I understand where you're coming from - trust me, I was awake during all those things too...because I was presenting at AM conferences and morning report!

But like I said -- if you really WANT sleep, it's possible. If you're looking for excuses, there's plenty to be found.

OP, if you really feel like you need a certain amount of sleep each night, there are ways to get it. Go to an easier rotation site - my school did offer surgery rotation sites where there was NO call, and you were done by 5 PM each day. Do an easy service - there are services that have few patients, and are not in the OR very much.

I did my rotation at one of the most demanding sites offered (the location was convenient), and I chose difficult services. There were a number of times when I was forced to go 3-4 consecutive nights with only 3 hours of sleep each. The days blurred together and I started forgetting my own phone number - but, as beastmaster said, there are ways to avoid experiences like mine. When it comes time to schedule your surgery rotation, you'll know which sites are easier than others.

All complaints aside - the rotation was hellishly demanding, and I got very, very little sleep, and was stressed all the time. It was some of the best 9 weeks of 3rd year, though - rivaled only by the L&D weeks during OB. I loved my residents, I loved the surgeries, I loved the OR, and I learned a lot from the attendings. Even though psych was much easier, I'd still rather repeat the OB or surgery rotation over the psych rotation in a heartbeat. And I'm glad that I DID pick demanding services - because it let me know that I really liked OB and surgery, even despite all the bad parts that went along with them.

the most important thing that i've done throughout my 3rd year is prioritize sleep...whenever, however I could get it. when i had surgery and had to be at the hospital at 4:00am (which was most days), i made sure that i got to be at least be 9/10pm-ish so that I'd have my minimal 6 to function. i didn't care that i hadn't read up on the surgery for the next day. I needed sleep.

And I think that this is the take home message for the OP (or any MS2s that are reading this). It depends on what your priorities are. I really wanted to impress my chief (and the cases were really interesting), so I would read up on the surgeries and spend another couple of hours going over the patient's history and CT scans. To me, that was worth losing some sleep.

 

[docjolly]

smq123, i see your point, and wholeheartedly respect it.

however, just as a disclaimer:

i honestly did not sacriice sleep while on surgery, but i did learn to manage my free time effectively so that I was always (I repeat, always) studying. i never went into a surgery unprepared/ignorant about the procedure or involved anatomy. that would have surely earned me a poor grade, and ruined any opportunity that I would have needed to ask for a recommendation.

 

[beastmaster]

What time did your OR get started? We were doing some long cases, so we almost always had to be in the holding area by 7:00, to meet the patient. If I didn't get there before 5:30 at least, there's no way that I could have pre-rounded AND run the list.

Maybe it's service dependent?

It's more program dependent than anything, I think. Where I rotated, we alternated OR and clinic days. On OR days, we rounded the SICU and floor at 6am, followed by morning report and then the OR. Cases started at 8am. Our computer system had the latest vitals and crap already neatly prepared. And you can't preround to ask about bowel movements if the patients are trached or septic. On clinic days, same sched except after morning report you head off to clinic instead of the OR.

From 4pm-6pm we had lecture, and all surgeons knew that at a little before 4pm students scrub out (or leave clinic). This was some of the best quality teaching I've seen in any hospitals during 3rd year, so I definitely didn't want to have that eyelid droop when the surgeon doing the lecture is dropping pearls. Our day is done whenever lecture ends. This standardized our day, so that we weren't subject to the whims of residents (late day scut, worthless sign-outs, etc).

 

[smq123]

smq123, i see your point, and wholeheartedly respect it.

however, just as a disclaimer:

i honestly did not sacriice sleep while on surgery, but i did learn to manage my free time effectively so that I was always (I repeat, always) studying. i never went into a surgery unprepared/ignorant about the procedure or involved anatomy. that would have surely earned me a poor grade, and ruined any opportunity that I would have needed to ask for a recommendation.

I didn't mean to imply that you were lazy or unprepared. I'm sure that you weren't.

But it kind of frustrates me when people say that just by managing your free time, you can get 6 hours of sleep (or more) on a consistent basis. Depending on the service, and depending on your site, that's not always the case. If getting 6 hours of sleep each night is a priority - then you can make it happen. But if other things matter more at the time, then it won't.

It's more program dependent than anything, I think. Where I rotated, we alternated OR and clinic days. On OR days, we rounded the SICU and floor at 6am, followed by morning report and then the OR. Cases started at 8am. Our computer system had the latest vitals and crap already neatly prepared. And you can't preround to ask about bowel movements if the patients are trached or septic. On clinic days, same sched except after morning report you head off to clinic instead of the OR.

Our day is done whenever lecture ends. This standardized our day, so that we weren't subject to the whims of residents (late day scut, worthless sign-outs, etc).

This is, I think the really cool part about SDN - your experience on surgery was extremely different from mine.

I had TWO days of clinic during 9 weeks. That's it.

And I have pre-rounded on trached and obtundant patients before. All of the patients on one service went to the SICU afterwards - the chances that some of those patients were going to be on a vent, at some point, was pretty high. (And, on ENT, I volunteered to pre-round on a patient that they had trached. They let me make the skin incision, use the bronchoscope, and sew in the trach ties, and I was so pumped that I somehow ended up volunteering to pre-round on her. Never underestimate that post-OR adrenaline rush! )

I always came back to the hospital after our weekly lectures. Although I wouldn't say that this was a bad thing - in a way, it let me understand what life as a resident is like. I always went back after lecture to help with the post-op patients, which was good to see.

 

[beastmaster]

I always came back to the hospital after our weekly lectures. Although I wouldn't say that this was a bad thing - in a way, it let me understand what life as a resident is like. I always went back after lecture to help with the post-op patients, which was good to see.

Well, I had 12 calls, so I did "go back" 12 times to experience life as a resident. Another thing different about our program is that our calls were 36hrs. So, we stayed until 6pm on post-call days. But the biggest difference, is that students weren't just assigned as junior members of a surgical team. We had a student schedule that prevented abuse or scut by residents. We were never resident's assistants or resident's observers, unless of course you wanted to be.

 

[smq123]

But the biggest difference, is that students weren't just assigned as junior members of a surgical team. We had a student schedule that prevented abuse or scut by residents. We were never resident's assistants or resident's observers, unless of course you wanted to be.

Yeah, I agree that that's what it boils down to - what you want. I never felt scutted, or abused. I wanted to be treated like an intern - I'll do anything if it means that I won't feel superfluous. For me, that meant being the first to pull up the patient's CT scan. Or running and getting an a-line kit for the post-op patient. Or pre-rounding on half the list (even the patients that are in the ICU, trached, and totally out of it). I wasn't coerced into doing any of this, so I never felt like it was scut.

In any case, all that running around was still better than parts of my internal med rotation. On OB, I knew how dilated and what station each patient was at, because the residents let me feel part of the team. On surgery, I knew the NG output for each patient, again, because the residents let me feel part of the team. On medicine, though - one morning I almost got a patient a glass of juice, even though she was really NPO. No one had mentioned to me that, overnight, they had abruptly decided to take her down to surgery later that day. They said it was to avoid "scutting" us, but, really, I would have preferred the scut!

 

[group_theory]

The worse is not the long continuous hours on call, it's the fact that you repeat it every 3-4 days for at least a month (and more depending on your schedule) ... it's finishing a 30-36 hr callday, then coming back for a regular 12-14 hr day for 2 days, then back to 30-36 hr call days. And if you have call on saturday, basically your entire weekend is gone so in essence you work 2 weeks straight without a day off.

After 2-3 straight months of being overnight call q3-4 (and having no life), that's when your body feels it, your mind feels it, and your spirit feels it too. Add to that people yelling at you for not doing things faster, not being more efficient, not doing enough "reading", it gets to you.

And if it happens to be late fall or winter, you go in before the sun rises, and you leave after the sun sets, and the only time you get to enjoy the sunlight is postcall, it breaks you after a few months.

It's not the long hours of being on call that sucks, it's the cyclic nature of being overnight call that really gets to you.

and don't get sick - nothing worse than having the fatigue of being continuously on call and catching some viral illness that drains what remaining reserves you do that.


Enjoy residency

 

[Law2Doc]

Unless your call is more frequent than once per week, you're consistently doing 100+ weekly hrs?? These days, for a student, that's just dumb. Fight for your rights amigo. But maybe my surgery rotation was just better. They realized that there's nothing useful for a student to do before 6am. If your program is abusing you, I'm sorry. But I had weekly presentations too. You're entitled to atleast 1 weekend day off. Prepare it then. I did cover a call for a friend once, went over 100 hrs, was a bit tough, but I slept when I could and with some creativity managed just fine.

There is no right to the 80 hour week for med students, that rule only applies to residents. (Some schools may have extended this to their med students but it is by no means widespread, and has no bearing on accredition like the residency rule does). So if your superiors want you to come in early and leave late, and still do presentations on top of that, there isn't much you can do about it if you want good evals.

 

[RussianJoo]

I hear Red Bull gives you Wings..

 

[packitinstan]

How do you guys deal with all this insanity if you have trouble falling asleep ontop of the fact that there is no time to sleep?

 

[Law2Doc]

How do you guys deal with all this insanity if you have trouble falling asleep ontop of the fact that there is no time to sleep?

Your body will sleep when it is tired enough. If you are sleep deprived enough, you will have no trouble falling asleep. It will usually occur at inopportune times, such as in restaurants, on public transportation, in lectures. But rest assured, when your body is tired enough, it will sleep.

 

[Tired]

Your body will sleep when it is tired enough. If you are sleep deprived enough, you will have no trouble falling asleep. It will usually occur at inopportune times, such as in restaurants, on public transportation, in lectures. But rest assured, when your body is tired enough, it will sleep.

Ah yes, microsleep. I get Pickwickian (although I'm not obese). Last week on rounds I fell asleep for a second standing up, lost muscle tone, and crashed into a nearby gurney. I didn't actually fall to the ground, but I did cause an impressive crash.

 

[taurus70]

My surgery call was q3 also for 4 weeks of the rotation and q4-q6 every other week. I was fine in the beginning but those last couple weeks of q3 were starting to take their toll at the end.

 

[SoCuteMD]

How do you guys deal with all this insanity if you have trouble falling asleep ontop of the fact that there is no time to sleep?

Eventually your body takes over, but for me there was an adjustment period. I was not living in my apartment during my surgery rotation, so the unfamiliar surroundings combined with new rotation jitters and anxiety as well as call twice in the first week left me with approximately 3-4 hours of sleep each night, less on some. By the second week I could fall asleep at the drop of a hat. I slept soundly for the remainder of the rotation, to the extent that I would sleep through ambulances driving with lights and sirens just beneath my window.

 

[sacrament]

I'm deep in my second year of residency, and have developed a sleep latency of about 60 seconds. There is virtually no situation in which I cannot take a quick nap. A few weeks ago I responded to a code 99 and successfully restored a perfusing rhythm, then ran back to the ICU to get things prepared for the patient's arrival. Then I took a five minute nap in the corner of the ICU pod until they wheeled the guy in.

 

[beastmaster]

I'm deep in my second year of residency, and have developed a sleep latency of about 60 seconds. There is virtually no situation in which I cannot take a quick nap. A few weeks ago I responded to a code 99 and successfully restored a perfusing rhythm, then ran back to the ICU to get things prepared for the patient's arrival. Then I took a five minute nap in the corner of the ICU pod until they wheeled the guy in.

That suggests severe deprivation with hunger for REM sleep. You didn't restore any rhythm. It was a dream, and you woke up in time for an ICU transfer.

 

[JustaUnicorn]

Anyone else get severely nauseous with less than 5 hours of sleep? It never fails, if I get less that 5 I will throw up.

 

[Bacchus]

Anyone else get severely nauseous with less than 5 hours of sleep? It never fails, if I get less that 5 I will throw up.

Given you can't work more than 16 hours in a day, even if you violate hours a "little bit," you should be able to get at least 5 hours.

Edit:Can't believe I contributed to this epic bump. :x

 

[cabinbuilder]

I never really thought about call. It was SOOO much easier than having a newborn 24/7 getting 4 hours sleep a day for weeks and having to go to work. If I get 4 hours in a row, I am good to go. It would have been hard though if I hadn't had a child first.

 

[neusu]

Given you can't work more than 16 hours in a day, even if you violate hours a "little bit," you should be able to get at least 5 hours.

You can work 28 hours continuously (24 hours of clinical responsibilities + 4 for educational opportunities or transition of care), a max of every 3 days, a max of 80-hours per week; averaged over 4 weeks.

 

[Kaustikos]

Given you can't work more than 16 hours in a day, even if you violate hours a "little bit," you should be able to get at least 5 hours.

Edit:Can't believe I contributed to this epic bump. :x

You "should" is different from what happens, though. But I'm talking about surgery... Medicine was different for me.
Surgery: 5am to 5pm (on a good day) everyday. So you're waking up at 4am. Get home at 6:30/7pm. You study for a couple hours till 9sh. You're supposed to eat dinner somewhere in there... so you're at 10pm? I guess in theory you should be able to get that. But for me I had to get up at 3:30/45 and I wasn't in bed until 11. But the saving grace was that I enjoyed surgery... or I'd have committed seppuku. jk

Medicine - be there by 6:30am and prepared to round by 7:30. Leave at 5?

I think family medicine was the worst... but only because I chose to do this. At the hospital by 5:30am to round w/ my preceptor. Clinic from 9am to 4pm. Back to hospital to round again till 6/7pm. I ****ing loved it/missed it. I know I won't get another opportunity like that ever again.

OH RIGHT - TLDR - Bacchus is right in some way. If you're not an idiot like me who doesn't sleep until 11...then you should be fine.

 

[Bacchus]

You can work 28 hours continuously (24 hours of clinical responsibilities + 4 for educational opportunities or transition of care), a max of every 3 days, a max of 80-hours per week; averaged over 4 weeks.

I realized I was only speaking for intern year. Oops.

 

[KnuxNole]

Lots and lots of caffeine

 

[MerickManual]

You "should" is different from what happens, though. But I'm talking about surgery... Medicine was different for me.
Surgery: 5am to 5pm (on a good day) everyday. So you're waking up at 4am. Get home at 6:30/7pm. You study for a couple hours till 9sh. You're supposed to eat dinner somewhere in there... so you're at 10pm? I guess in theory you should be able to get that. But for me I had to get up at 3:30/45 and I wasn't in bed until 11. But the saving grace was that I enjoyed surgery... or I'd have committed seppuku. jk

Medicine - be there by 6:30am and prepared to round by 7:30. Leave at 5?

I think family medicine was the worst... but only because I chose to do this. At the hospital by 5:30am to round w/ my preceptor. Clinic from 9am to 4pm. Back to hospital to round again till 6/7pm. I ******* loved it/missed it. I know I won't get another opportunity like that ever again.

OH RIGHT - TLDR - Bacchus is right in some way. If you're not an idiot like me who doesn't sleep until 11...then you should be fine.

Where did you do FM? You can PM me if you want to stay private, I'm curious just because I'm interested in the in/outpt set up.

 

[JoshSt]

Where did you do FM? You can PM me if you want to stay private, I'm curious just because I'm interested in the in/outpt set up.

It is not unique to their institution or mine. Many rural FM rotations have that kind of set up, it depends if your institution has a rural FM rotation.

 

[MerickManual]

It is not unique to their institution or mine. Many rural FM rotations have that kind of set up, it depends if your institution has a rural FM rotation.

Well, mine didn't, so I asked him where his was....

 

[Kaustikos]

Well, mine didn't, so I asked him where his was....

Indiana.

But we have satellite campuses which allows this

 

[SCOTTYDAWG]

this thread is gross. i hope you surgery freaks enjoy your marriage dissolving because the wife doesn't get any and watching your kids grow up not knowing who you are.

 

[evilbooyaa]

this thread is gross. i hope you surgery freaks enjoy your marriage dissolving because the wife doesn't get any and watching your kids grow up not knowing who you are.

lol. Just cause it isn't for you doesn't mean you should be an ass about it.

 

[Top Gun]

this thread is gross. i hope you surgery freaks enjoy your marriage dissolving because the wife doesn't get any and watching your kids grow up not knowing who you are.

Um, it is possible to make time for a life outside of work even in surgery. I'm sure more surgeons are attempting to do just that nowadays.

 

[blaqmamba]

Jesus, Kaustikos, you cray.

Why in the world would anyone work 100hrs as a student? You (by 'you' I mean people) do realize that you're paying for an education, not to be tortured. Your experiences (and education) don't really increase because you work so much more than others. There's something called, "diminishing returns" that so many students forget about.

Yeah I worked the most number of hours on surgery, and it was about 83 hours at its max (and only on one week). And I promise I saw/did/learned as much as anyone who worked 100+ hours....and slept 8 hours a night.

Anyone who is working more than the regulations should report that to the deans (our school monitors how many hours we work), and really realize that you're sacrificing your own health and well-being.


*On a Sub-I, I understand if you get closer to the 100hr mark, but still would make sure it's really going to benefit you