How do you explain to your family in simple terms what a DO is?

[czanetti]

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I'm looking for the simplest definition when comparing it to an MD degree what is a DO and what makes it different. I have a few of my own but I wanted to see if someone has a more simpler way of doing it.

 

[JonnyG]

I'm looking for the simplest definition when comparing it to an MD degree what is a DO and what makes it different. I have a few of my own but I wanted to see if someone has a more simpler way of doing it.

BA, BS same thing

 

[newyorkcougar]

My standard response: "It means that in medical school I got 200 hours of additional training in manual manipulative medicine." The AOA might not like it, but it is enough for most people.

If someone is really interested, I explain the osteopathic emphasis on the relationship of structure and function and what it means clinically, which the AOA might like better but takes more explaining.

 

[Medicfletch]

The best response I have heard is from a friend in my class.

Medicine is like Major League Baseball. You have the National League (Allopathic) and the American League (Osteopathic). Both play together and follow the same rules, but the American league uses the DH (OMM) as an added tool.

Or you can put it in the terms of one of our OMM professors.

Osteopathic Medicine is what chiropractors would do if they knew anything about medicine and what MD's would do if they knew anything about the human body. Thought I would throw this in there to light the fire on the ol' flame war. Begin.

 

[Sirius Black]

To put in as simplest terms as possible, a DO is an "MD plus more". To cover my butt from the onslaught that will ensue on this forum, I'm NOT saying that DOs are smarter, better, or more competent than MDs. But the fact of the matter is, immediately after the 4 years of medical education necessary to earn the degree, the average osteopathic student will have more knowledge about treating patients than their allopathic counterparts.

Getting back to the point, you can add that the DO education focuses more on the musculoskeletal system, and that we learn how to use osteopathic techniques to treat patients before resorting to medicine or surgery. You can tell them that the philosophy is centered on the belief that abnormal structure is the main impediment to proper function (which is actually true at the molecular level as well, but you can't treat dysfunctional proteins with OMT unfortunately). If all this fails, just tell them what they really want to hear: we make the same amount of $$.

 

[czanetti]

I must say I could definetly utilize these definitions with a few of my family members. I can't say thank you enough because I feel like one of the biggest issues with Osteopathic medicine is its core identity because many in the profession and or those entering it don't do a good job of defining it into simple terms. Take a look at the pre-Osteo responce to my same question. I wanted to do a little study on my own of how the med students and the pre med students would answer it, its pretty interesting.

 

[Ifellinapothole]

I'm looking for the simplest definition when comparing it to an MD degree what is a DO and what makes it different. I have a few of my own but I wanted to see if someone has a more simpler way of doing it.

Heaven= MD

Hell= Caribbean MD

Purgatory= DO

 

[bkpa2med]

Heaven= MD

Hell= Caribbean MD

Purgatory= DO

 

[OHMAN0125]

Heaven= MD

Hell= Caribbean MD

Purgatory= DO

You know what's funny? Even many students who just enter MD schools have no idea what a DO is. They have no idea what a DPM is and they dont know PAs and NPs can prescribe.

 

[Dr JPH]

Tell them to "look it up".

Thats what my mom told me when I didnt know something. "Go look it up...if you still dont understand it we will talk about it."

In all seriousness...easiest thing you can do is tell them:

"DOs are physicians who spend part of their medical education learning more about the musculoskeletal system and also learning manual medicine, something they dont teach at MD schools."

 

[Ifellinapothole]

i'm actually half-joking, though it is true that most D.O. students are MD rejects.

However, osteopathic medicine and philosophy are kinda cool when thought of w/ a sense of moderation.

THe problem is that A.T. STill was a reactionary. His kids died of meningitis so he started massaging people and claimed that this was messianic medicine. This orthodoxy should be challenged w/ randomized controlled studies w/ more than n=34. It hardly is however, for the most part.

 

[Dr JPH]

i'm actually half-joking, though it is true that most D.O. students are MD rejects.

Some, not most.

I dont know who youre talking to.

Perhaps at some other DO schools, but the great majority of PCOMers came here because it was their first choice medical school, MD or DO.

I, like so many others, gave up an acceptance at an MD school to come to PCOM. And in the long run I am going to be a better physician because of it both medically and financially.

I would think NYCOM (your school) would be the same way...but perhaps its not a good a school as I had thought and it is indeed a backup choice for them.

 

[czanetti]

Reactionary's aren't always a bad thing it takes charisma, passion and dedication to induce change. If it is fueled by a death or deaths of close family members to do it then so be it. I find it funny that you think that a reactionary is a bad thing, because I guarantee that if you asked every person applying to medical school at least half would be "reactionaries" going into this field. There is nothing wrong with it at all. I see AT as a revolutionary in the times. Some call Osteopathic medicine a reformation, incorporating eastern philosophy to western medicine seems to be more of an evolution and with time I believe it will have the scientific evidence to back it up to the extent were there won't be very much room to question it, atleast not any more than some of the medical techniques we use today.

 

[czanetti]

There are some MD rejects that come but that doesn't mean that all people are. Besides that what does that have to do with developing a simple core identity definition. Stick to the topic at hand please.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

i'm actually half-joking, though it is true that most D.O. students are MD rejects.

I agree that while, some (perhaps even as high as 50-75%) of DO students would have chosen allopathic programs if given the chance, you could have worded that a little better.

Perhaps at some other DO schools, but the great majority of PCOMers came here because it was their first choice medical school, MD or DO.

Well, you could also wonder if many of the students are being completely honest about this......trust me if I were given no other option, I'd be singing the praises of anyone who gave me a spot and would reserve my bitching about the curriculum, my classmates, etc, for someone I know who isn't going to climb up my ass and pitch a tent while berating me for my dissent when it comes to goose stepping along with the rest of the class into the AOA rally (Hey Pothole, I have an idea.....how about a "documentary" about the AOA: "Triumph of the Still"?.....I think Leni Riefenstahl is probably spinning in her grave).

However, osteopathic medicine and philosophy are kinda cool when thought of w/ a sense of moderation.

Agreed.



From the thread in the pre-osteo forum, this is how I explain the "difference":

Here's exactly what I told my mother and several other people who've asked me: "An MD and a DO are the same thing for all intents and purposes, it's just that there are two different degrees leading to the same job, just like there are two degrees a vet can earn (DVM or VMD) or a dentist can earn (DDS or DMD). There are some historical differences and DO's have to take a few extra classes because of them, but in the end, they are both physicians."

 

[Dr JPH]

I agree that while, some (perhaps even as high as 50-75%) of DO students would have chosen allopathic programs if given the chance, you could have worded that a little better.

What is your basis for this statement?

 

[DropkickMurphy]

What is your basis for this statement?

Note: I said "perhaps". It was a guess....based mostly on what I've been told by osteopathic students I've talked with. Granted, anecdotal evidence doesn't hold water.....but then again the reverse will be true- that the claims that most would have chosen DO over MD programs are subject to the same problem. The ONLY way to resolve this would be to get the AMCAS and osteopathic application service to provide data on ALL people accepted to DO programs to see how many really DID choose a DO program over an allopathic program.

 

[Dr JPH]

Note: I said "perhaps". It was a guess....based mostly on what I've been told by osteopathic students I've talked with. Granted, anecdotal evidence doesn't hold water.....but then again the reverse will be true- that the claims that most would have chosen DO over MD programs are subject to the same problem. The ONLY way to resolve this would be to get the AMCAS and osteopathic application service to provide data on ALL people accepted to DO programs to see how many really DID choose a DO program over an allopathic program.

Agreed.

You would need to break down several different groups:

1. Applied to MD only
2. Applied to DO only
3. Applied to MD and DO

1. Accepted to MD only
2. Accepted to DO only
3. Accepted to MD and DO

Of course, that may not even give you any concrete information. Maybe a questionnaire to all AMCAS and AACOMAS applicants citing their #1 choice school based on where they were applying.

OK...I dont want to get too far off topic for the original poster.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

Actually you could just look at the people who were accepted to DO programs and took that spot, and then go check and see if they did get offered a slot from an allopathic school. That would answer the question at hand in the most expedient manner possible. But back to the topic of this thread...... 🙂

 

[BklynWill]

I am an admitted "MD reject".

I am also damn proud to be an osteopathic medical student and look forward to the day that I become a physician who happens to have earned a D.O. degree. I like OMT too and plan to use it in practice someday.

All of this talk about DO students who are MD rejects is irrelevant. We are all classmates now and will all be DOs one day too, so there is no need to identify reasons that make us different. It's as useless as segregating ourselves based on our individual undergraduate majors.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

I am an admitted "MD reject".

I am also damn proud to be an osteopathic medical student and look forward to the day that I become a physician who happens to have earned a D.O. degree.

All of this talk about DO students who are MD rejects is irrelevant. We are all classmates now and will all be DOs one day too, so there is no need to identify reasons that make us different. It's as useless as segregating ourselves based on our individual undergraduate majors.

Agreed. We're all going to be physicians eventually. That was the point of what I tell people.

 

[Ossari]

That goes double for me 👍

Some, not most.

I dont know who youre talking to.

Perhaps at some other DO schools, but the great majority of PCOMers came here because it was their first choice medical school, MD or DO.

I, like so many others, gave up an acceptance at an MD school to come to PCOM. And in the long run I am going to be a better physician because of it both medically and financially.

I would think NYCOM (your school) would be the same way...but perhaps its not a good a school as I had thought and it is indeed a backup choice for them.

 

[Ossari]

Agreed. We're all going to be physicians eventually. That was the point of what I tell people.

here goes a double double! or is it a quadruple? 😀

 

[Dr JPH]

here goes a double double! or is it a quadruple? 😀

Quadruple.

But Im only a DO student...may want to ask a premed...they know everything.

😉

 

[czanetti]

Thanks for the valiant attempt everybody. I wanted to be able to explain it to my mom in simple terms and I think this did it. Its funny how it always deteriorates to insecurities between those who wanted to be a DO and those who are MD rejects. You can even be a Pre-med to see how ridiculous that is. Regardless for those who answered the threads original questions thank you. Once you can explain it to one, that person can explain it to others if you get the right people it can create a word of mouth epidemic. Malcolm Gladwell called it the tipping point. Norman Gevitz called them Strategic elites. If you can explain it to the right person it does make a difference. If you can explain it to someone not in the medical field like my mom you can explain it to anyone.

 

[Dr JPH]

Thanks for the valiant attempt everybody. I wanted to be able to explain it to my mom in simple terms and I think this did it. Its funny how it always deteriorates to insecurities between those who wanted to be a DO and those who are MD rejects. You can even be a Pre-med to see how ridiculous that is. Regardless for those who answered the threads original questions thank you. Once you can explain it to one, that person can explain it to others if you get the right people it can create a word of mouth epidemic. Malcolm Gladwell called it the tipping point. Norman Gevitz called them Strategic elites. If you can explain it to the right person it does make a difference. If you can explain it to someone not in the medical field like my mom you can explain it to anyone.

Best way I explained it was treating them with OMT.

Now when I go home to visit I end up treating relatives I never even knew I had.

Makes me think I should be asking for some pretty nice Christmas presents!

 

[ShyRem]

I applied to both. My dad started looking around and discovered his own physician is a DO. My mom is all for it when I explained the OMM part of it to her - she's ALL for manipulative medicine and alternative medicine used IN CONJUNCTION with solid medical theories and practices.

My husband was very leery of OMM - until I did a suboccipital on him (isn't that what turns them all around?). Not leery of DOs -- all his physicians he's liked have turned out to be DOs. Now he's sold on OMM.

So what do I tell people about DO vs. MD? I say they're the same, but DOs pay a little more attention to the soft tissue in the body and how they interact.

 

[silas2642]

I'm looking for the simplest definition when comparing it to an MD degree what is a DO and what makes it different. I have a few of my own but I wanted to see if someone has a more simpler way of doing it.

I would tell them that DO's are doctors just like MD's and have all the responsibilties and privilidges of an MD, but that they have a slightly different philosophy than allopaths. Tell them about OMM and the tradition of seeing the patient as a whole person rather than just some organism with a disease.

 

[Al2VCOM]

Tell them to "look it up".

Thats what my mom told me when I didnt know something. "Go look it up...if you still dont understand it we will talk about it."

My family didn't care enough about the difference enough to look it up. That answer is so true, though

 

[Al2VCOM]

The way I explain it is by saying that an allopathic school (the good ones) will go into much more detail in molecular biology and biochemistry. They train their students to be researchers and physicians. The ability to focus on ones area of interest is impressive. But, they dont always make the best physicians. A doctor has to identify with the patient, beyond looking at the symptoms like an exam.

 

[Terpskins99]

Some, not most.

I dont know who youre talking to.

Perhaps at some other DO schools, but the great majority of PCOMers came here because it was their first choice medical school, MD or DO.

I'm sorry, but how would you know what the great majority of PCOMers decided? Even if you had direct access to PCOM's admissions committee (which you don't), you still would have no way to know what schools a student turned down to attend your program. No one knows. And chances are (unless you're actually married to one), you probably don't even know the entire list for a single fellow student.

Bottom line, you can only speak for yourself. Leave it at that.

 

[czanetti]

How about you stick to the question and not go on a stupid rant about something that has nothing to do with the post. Thanks

 

[DropkickMurphy]

I would tell them that DO's are doctors just like MD's and have all the responsibilties and privilidges of an MD, but that they have a slightly different philosophy than allopaths. Tell them about OMM and the tradition of seeing the patient as a whole person rather than just some organism with a disease.

This is to your parents or friends, not the ADCOM......you can relax.

 

[Terpskins99]

How about you stick to the question and not go on a stupid rant about something that has nothing to do with the post. Thanks

If it makes you happy, my response applies to you as well. If you can't figure out how to answer your question, then perhaps you made the wrong choice of medical school.

 

[czanetti]

Actually the question isn't the problem its arrogant jerks like you that think they know the answer to everything that ticks me off. Maybe if you learned how to swallow your pride you might realize that there is more than one answer to this problem. For instance there is also more than one way in which you are out of line. I could say that you are going off topic, which you are, and follow up with Einstein's premise of if you can't communicate information to a child then the information is useless. One the brightest minds of our time stated that I guess he wouldn't have had a shot at medical school either. I guess we just save those seats for people that are too self consumed to see the light of day. Thanks for your advice though I'll make sure I tell the TCOM admissions committee that one of the 15 students that they admitted that were out of state was a bad choice because you said so. 😉

What you bring up is off topic and what you just said is irrelevant and ludicrous. I have answered the questions many times, I thought it would be nice to try to see what others thought about it, I should have known that others would include incompetent people like yourself.

Regardless I hope that people continue to answer this thread as the question states and not let others bother your responce because it is an important question and I know others that are in my position are being helped by this thread. Thank you

 

[Dr JPH]

I'm sorry, but how would you know what the great majority of PCOMers decided? Even if you had direct access to PCOM's admissions committee (which you don't), you still would have no way to know what schools a student turned down to attend your program. No one knows. And chances are (unless you're actually married to one), you probably don't even know the entire list for a single fellow student.

Bottom line, you can only speak for yourself. Leave it at that.

🙄

 

[silas2642]

This is to your parents or friends, not the ADCOM......you can relax.

No, I really meant what I said. I have a great deal of respect towards osteopathic physicians and I think that it would do the practice a disservice NOT to explain the DO philosophy.

 

[czanetti]

deleted

 

[Slitherin]

it's the same as an MD

 

[czanetti]

and others say that it isn't.... I wonder why the majority of DO's end up in the primary care field is it because of the impact of the different philosophy or is it that on average DO's score lower on boards then MD's so the primary care field is a more accesable option???? Maybe we can debate about that too. If the second fact has no weight then explain the higher percentage of DO's in the primary care field?

 

[DropkickMurphy]

and others say that it isn't.... I wonder why the majority of DO's end up in the primary care field is it because of the impact of the different philosophy or is it that on average DO's score lower on boards then MD's so the primary care field is a more accesable option???? Maybe we can debate about that too. If the second fact has no weight then explain the higher percentage of DO's in the primary care field?

I've wondered the same thing myself........

 

[Dr JPH]

and others say that it isn't.... I wonder why the majority of DO's end up in the primary care field is it because of the impact of the different philosophy or is it that on average DO's score lower on boards then MD's so the primary care field is a more accesable option???? Maybe we can debate about that too. If the second fact has no weight then explain the higher percentage of DO's in the primary care field?

One issue you mention is board score...thats a topic in and of itself, but I think that if all DO students had to take the USMLE or you combined exams I doubt you would find very significant differences in board scores.

I think DO schools seem to attract the types of personalities that send people into primary care.

PCOM send a minority of its grads into primary care but it is still stressed on a regular basis that in order to be a good physician in any specialty, you need a strong primary care background. PCOM also requires 7 month of primary care rotations.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

PCOM also requires 7 month of primary care rotations.

Damn.....what a shame.....it was high on my list until I heard that.

 

[BklynWill]

Damn.....what a shame.....it was high on my list until I heard that.

Those 7 months include:

Family
OMM/Family
Urban Medicine (2 months)
Rural Medicine
Peds
OB/GYN

Except Urban Med and OMM, I would expect most medical schools to have similar requirements.

Oh, we also have an EMed rotation, which some would consider primary care.

 

[Buckeye4life]

I just tell people there are two medical degrees awarded in the U.S., MD and DO. Then I say D.O.'s are just trained in additional OMT, which means they have one more tool in their bag of tricks (you add your analogy). After that they can think what they want. I've never met a D.O. in practice who wasn't regarded as a full physician by the staff or their patients, just that they tend to sometimes approach their patients in a different way. I've met MD's who I wouldn't trust with a ten foot pole and some DO's who had the personality of a rock. In the end it's going to be word of mouth about how you treat people (all aspects) that will define what a DO is to the public or your family. People shouldn't be defined by their initials or occupation, there is so much more to a human than that.

 

[BklynWill]

and others say that it isn't.... I wonder why the majority of DO's end up in the primary care field is it because of the impact of the different philosophy or is it that on average DO's score lower on boards then MD's so the primary care field is a more accesable option???? Maybe we can debate about that too. If the second fact has no weight then explain the higher percentage of DO's in the primary care field?

The answer is a combination of the following:
#1 There are fewer AOA specialty residencies than ACGME specialty residencies.

#2 The AOA (DO) Match occurs earlier than the NRMP (MD) Match.

#3 Since more DOs match through the AOA Match, more DOs match into primary care residencies. Conversely, a lower % of DOs apply to ACGME specialty residencies than % of MDs.

That's the answer to why a greater % of DOs end up in the primary care field than %MDs.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

Those 7 months include:

Family
OMM/Family
Urban Medicine (2 months)
Rural Medicine
Peds
OB/GYN

Except Urban Med and OMM, I would expect most medical schools to have similar requirements.

Oh, we also have an EMed rotation, which some would consider primary care.

Thanks for the clarification. 👍

 

[czanetti]

Thanks for the clarification everyone, I didn't know any of this.🙂

 

[Dr JPH]

Those 7 months include:

Family
OMM/Family
Urban Medicine (2 months)
Rural Medicine
Peds
OB/GYN

Except Urban Med and OMM, I would expect most medical schools to have similar requirements.

Oh, we also have an EMed rotation, which some would consider primary care.

Exactly.

Also keep in mind that PCOM offers 7 months of electives...more than any other school that I have come across.


Family Medicine - 1 month
Internal Medicine - 1 month
OMM/Family - 1 month
Pediatrics - 1 month
OB/GYN - 1 month
General Surgery - 1 month
Specialty Surgery - 1 month
Psychiatry - 1 month
Radiology/Advanced Clinical Skills - 2 weeks/2 weeks = 1 month
Cardiology - 1 month
Surgical Sub-I/Ambulatory Surgery - 1 month
Rural Medicine - 1 month
Urban Medicine - 2 months
Emergency Medicine - 1 month
Medical Sub-I - 1 month
Internal Medicine Selective - 1 month
Electives - 7 months

24 months total

 

[BklynWill]

Exactly.

Also keep in mind that PCOM offers 7 months of electives...more than any other school that I have come across.


Family Medicine - 1 month
Internal Medicine - 1 month
OMM/Family - 1 month
Pediatrics - 1 month
OB/GYN - 1 month
General Surgery - 1 month
Specialty Surgery - 1 month
Psychiatry - 1 month
Radiology/Advanced Clinical Skills - 2 weeks/2 weeks = 1 month
Cardiology - 1 month
Surgical Sub-I/Ambulatory Surgery - 1 month
Rural Medicine - 1 month
Urban Medicine - 2 months
Emergency Medicine - 1 month
Medical Sub-I - 1 month
Internal Medicine Selective - 1 month
Electives - 7 months

24 months total

Changed slightly for our class- 1 elective 3rd-year and 5 electives and 1 vacation month 4th-year for a total of 6 electives. I suppose the vacation could be wasted on an elective too but I intend to use it for either COMLEX II/ interviews/ or to finish med school a month early.