How do you guys deal with envy?

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TheIllusionist

TheIllusionist

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I have a lot of envy sometimes. It is distracting. I know rationally that it is a huge waste of time and energy, but I still have a lot of intrusive thoughts.

When I was doing just okay in school, I was envious of classmastes doing better. Now I am doing much better in school, and I find myself envious of those in other fields, namely finance, consulting, and engineering. I know top peformers in the latter three. I am in my mid 20s, and I know people my age making 150 to 400k a year in those fields (only one guy made 400k and he is in HF and his firm killed it this year). One guy posted he bought his dad a rolex for his birthday another bought his mom a car. These people are going on all these exotic vacations. They wear high end clothes and definitely get to party at more exclusive venues.

A lot of these feelings do disappear in the clinic, especially if I feel I made some sort of impact that day. Anyway, end of my ungrateful rant.

Inb4 millenial snowflake ingrate comments lmfao
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Social media is comparing everyone else's highlight reel to our behind the scenes. What's helped for me is simply getting off social media. Less time spent on social media = less insecurity and more time studying (or not studying lol)
 
Know that (hopefully) you became a doctor for you not for other people. Do you want to be in their position instead of where you are now? If so, why? If the answer to that question is you just want to be perceived more highly by others, then you just need to refer back to my first sentence.
 
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Repress those feelings and never admit weakness. Ever.

Seriously, though, get off social media if envy's becoming a big enough problem for you that you're asking the SDN armchair psychologists for help. n=1 but my life got significantly better when I stopped paying attention to social media. (I suppose n=2 if you count Pikachu above.)

Or you could stay on social media and realize that most everyone posting on FB, Snapchat, etc. highlight only the best parts of their lives. Those guys making $150k-$400k? Probably work at least 90 hours a week with people they hate and jerk bosses and have hit the career ceiling. The guy who bought his dad a Rolex for his birthday? Maybe doesn't have the best relationship with his dad so has to show the world that he's the #1 son. The guy who bought his mom a car? Eh, she probably deserved it.

FB/social media posts don't tell the whole story. It's a sanitized version of what people want other people to see. Think about what you would post on FB about your med school life being on rotations living the dream sticking your finger up peoples' butts checking for masses and potentially saving a life. Think of all those kids who didn't get into med school and are now thinking "gosh, TheIllusionist not only looks like Ed Norton, but is gonna be a doctor some day too! I'm super jealous."
 
EMhopeful2 said:
Yeah I was surprised at first too. I don't have game or model looks, so I've never been great with women. A friend told me she was single and I guess she appreciated my honesty, thought I was "really smart" (it's not hard to appear smart in front of women in that line of work) and we hit it off.
Click to expand...

why I am happy to go to school around nyc...
 
TheIllusionist said:
I have a lot of envy sometimes. It is distracting. I know rationally that it is a huge waste of time and energy, but I still have a lot of intrusive thoughts.

When I was doing just okay in school, I was envious of classmastes doing better. Now I am doing much better in school, and I find myself envious of those in other fields, namely finance, consulting, and engineering. I know top peformers in the latter three. I am in my mid 20s, and I know people my age making 150 to 400k a year in those fields (only one guy made 400k and he is in HF and his firm killed it this year). One guy posted he bought his dad a rolex for his birthday another bought his mom a car. These people are going on all these exotic vacations. They wear high end clothes and definitely get to party at more exclusive venues.

A lot of these feelings do disappear in the clinic, especially if I feel I made some sort of impact that day. Anyway, end of my ungrateful rant.

Inb4 millenial snowflake ingrate comments lmfao
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Heard a saying before "there are skies above the skies" which pretty much means there's always gonna be a bigger fish. Even if you were number 1 in your school, there are many other schools out there. You can theoretically be the best medical student in the nation and there would be someone in a different year who has made a much bigger impact than you. You can be making 500k a year and someone else is doing it at a younger age on less hours (like you mentioned). Trust me I often find myself doing comparisons and there hasn't been a single time where it benefited me. Even if you were somehow at the tippest of toppest, continuing to do these comparisons would just give a sense of arrogance, not actual happiness imo.

Oh and the people who try to drag you down will do so no matter what you have achieved. "oh he's a millionaire? Well he's short/fat/ugly. Works 30 hours a week on 500k? Must be an empty life/what are they even doing in their free time?" You most likely won't win if your definition of winning is being the best/top unless you change said definition.
 
Have a wife who beats it out of me.

"You think I can get that residency?" - "Not if you don't pass your next exam"

"I just bombed my test" -"Did you score within the box? Did you pass?"- "...yeah..."- "There you go. What's important is you passed!"

"He has such a nice car. Starting price is 80k" - "You don't need that car. Just buy that S2000 you always wanted when you have enough."- "Oh you right..."

"Class average was a 90...I barely scraped a B." - "Honey you're lucky you even made it into school. You were never that smart anyways!"

All perspective.
 
the way to beat envy is the relentless pursuit of perfection of a task, an idea, a grade, a score,a specialty, a craft, and ignoring everything that does not contribute to that. The only person that you should be comparing yourself to is yourself, and the only person that gets to judge you is you.
Delete facebook
Hit the gym
 
libertyyne said:
the way to beat envy is the relentless pursuit of perfection of a task, an idea, a grade, a score,a specialty, a craft, and ignoring everything that does not contribute to that. The only person that you should be comparing yourself to is yourself, and the only person that gets to judge you is you.
Delete facebook
Hit the gym
Click to expand...

already a bigly iron addict. I should delete facebook tho
 
TheIllusionist said:
I have a lot of envy sometimes. It is distracting. I know rationally that it is a huge waste of time and energy, but I still have a lot of intrusive thoughts.

When I was doing just okay in school, I was envious of classmastes doing better. Now I am doing much better in school, and I find myself envious of those in other fields, namely finance, consulting, and engineering. I know top peformers in the latter three. I am in my mid 20s, and I know people my age making 150 to 400k a year in those fields (only one guy made 400k and he is in HF and his firm killed it this year). One guy posted he bought his dad a rolex for his birthday another bought his mom a car. These people are going on all these exotic vacations. They wear high end clothes and definitely get to party at more exclusive venues.

A lot of these feelings do disappear in the clinic, especially if I feel I made some sort of impact that day. Anyway, end of my ungrateful rant.

Inb4 millenial snowflake ingrate comments lmfao
Click to expand...

It's time to turn your life around 360 degrees:
Delete the gym,
Facebook up,
Hit the lawyer.
 
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I was feeling the same way a bit ago. Getting off all social media was really helpful. FB is a highlight reel; comparing your low or even average moments against other people's best is inevitably going to make you feel envious, so I just cut that out of my life for the time being.

Reinvesting myself into non-school hobbies has also been super helpful because it helps me focus on my own happiness instead of fixating on other people's. I've felt a lot better since making these changes.
 
TheIllusionist said:
I have a lot of envy sometimes. It is distracting. I know rationally that it is a huge waste of time and energy, but I still have a lot of intrusive thoughts.

When I was doing just okay in school, I was envious of classmastes doing better. Now I am doing much better in school, and I find myself envious of those in other fields, namely finance, consulting, and engineering. I know top peformers in the latter three. I am in my mid 20s, and I know people my age making 150 to 400k a year in those fields (only one guy made 400k and he is in HF and his firm killed it this year). One guy posted he bought his dad a rolex for his birthday another bought his mom a car. These people are going on all these exotic vacations. They wear high end clothes and definitely get to party at more exclusive venues.

A lot of these feelings do disappear in the clinic, especially if I feel I made some sort of impact that day. Anyway, end of my ungrateful rant.

Inb4 millenial snowflake ingrate comments lmfao
Click to expand...

You have to be comfortable and happy with who you are. At the end of the day, you’ll be in the top 1 percent if not the top 0.5/0.25 percent. Let people show off their material gains, you’re bigger than that. Besides, you’ll have them beat in a couple of years anyway. Don’t even sweat **** like that.
 
Pepe18 said:
Envy is a normal human emotion. It's okay as long as you put it into perspective. You know who is envious? The mother who just found out that she won't get to see her children grow up. It's natural to feel the way do, but recognize that you are jealous of trivial things. What joy would a rolex bring to your life? What difference does it make if you go to an exclusive club vs a normal bar where you are with people who care about you? You are better off than the vast majority of the entire world. And you don't know what demons the people you are envious of are dealing with.

Get out of NYC. NYC culture is all about jealousy and trying to find the next best thing while never "settling" for what you have.
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Been in nyc half a decade - that culture only exists as much as you want to immerse yourself in it. I’m perfectly happy eating my street hotdogs and halal cart food 6 days a week for lunch. I have a food truck next to the hospital that has the best bacon egg and cheese in the city for $3.50. Honestly if you’re surrounding by the right people and have reasonable values, you don’t feel the need to go to clubbing and keep up with finance dude #30185 that spent over a grand on a table and some champagne just to have fun.
 
Pepe18 said:
Envy is a normal human emotion. It's okay as long as you put it into perspective. You know who is envious? The mother who just found out that she won't get to see her children grow up. It's natural to feel the way do, but recognize that you are jealous of trivial things. What joy would a rolex bring to your life? What difference does it make if you go to an exclusive club vs a normal bar where you are with people who care about you? You are better off than the vast majority of the entire world. And you don't know what demons the people you are envious of are dealing with.

Get out of NYC. NYC culture is all about jealousy and trying to find the next best thing while never "settling" for what you have.
Click to expand...
Envy may be common, but it is unhealthy and an emotion typically experienced by those with materialistic or narcissistic views rather than more well-adjusted or down-to-earth individuals.
 
I'm going to echo what some others have said. Money buys some things, but not others.

It doesn't buy contentment.

You'll see that when you practice. I'm really only been an attending for a few years. My net worth is growing. I make more money than I thought I wanted to make, but lots of people make more than me. Of the the doc's just got rid of his BMW i8, and its going to get Porsche 9-11 (with cash). I'm probably 15 years from being able to afford something like that (if I ever want to). He and his wife probably make like $800-$1M.

Money does many things, it gives you options, on where and how you live. Lots of life's storms simple annoyances when you can just fix it with a check, but you can't buy happiness.
 
We all end up in the same dirt after it’s all over. Whether you are bill gates or a homeless drug addict who was abused as a child or if you’re the middle class pencil-pushing cubicle guy.

Nihilism isn’t the answer, but it’s certainly a perspective shaper.

Live your life in a way that gives you meaning and live according to principles that you admire. Support those around you in a capacity that you are comfortable with. Be ruthless in your pursuit to have meaning.

Chasing material goods leads to sad life. I don’t even mean chasing material goods makes you a bad person, it’s simply unfulfilling and will leave you with a void in your soul.

Comparison without context is the mother of envy and envy is the thief of joy. Be bigger than your envy.

You will be in a position to save/improve lives one day. Cherish that. You will be saving lives, families, relationships, people.

The universe has conspired to put you in this position. Own it!


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
Im somewhat materialistic myself, and i often compare myself with others around me. However, i have rarely, if ever, compared myself to friends in finance or law etc.
yea, they get to party more and get 401ks and ****. They can buy things now while im in school.
But your post made me realize something: my friends have never compared themselves with me either. Nobody has ever made me feel that being in medicine isnt the best thing. We all made our decisions in life for different reasons and with different means. In fact, most of my friends respect me because of it, even though i dont make money currently. Most people cant get into med school, let alone a good med school.

Thought i would add that perspective.
 
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Envy is usually a problem with your own insecurities, so I'd recommend taking an honest look at those and working on them. Therapy helps.
 
“The only time you should look in your neighbor’s bowl is to make sure that they have enough. You don’t look in your neighbir’s bowl to see if you have as much as them.”
 
To be fair, your feelings are par for the course. Your return on investment will be realized when you are in mid 30s. Is that too old? Probably. But you should've known this is what you signed up for...20s spent in preparation for security from 30s on. Welcome to medicine.
 
TheIllusionist said:
I have a lot of envy sometimes. It is distracting. I know rationally that it is a huge waste of time and energy, but I still have a lot of intrusive thoughts.

When I was doing just okay in school, I was envious of classmastes doing better. Now I am doing much better in school, and I find myself envious of those in other fields, namely finance, consulting, and engineering. I know top peformers in the latter three. I am in my mid 20s, and I know people my age making 150 to 400k a year in those fields (only one guy made 400k and he is in HF and his firm killed it this year). One guy posted he bought his dad a rolex for his birthday another bought his mom a car. These people are going on all these exotic vacations. They wear high end clothes and definitely get to party at more exclusive venues.

A lot of these feelings do disappear in the clinic, especially if I feel I made some sort of impact that day. Anyway, end of my ungrateful rant.

Inb4 millenial snowflake ingrate comments lmfao
Click to expand...

Comparison is the thief of joy
 
Weirdy said:
Was that before or after he got arrested for child pornography?
Click to expand...

Google says that never happened?

The allegation was that he wanked off in front of women who’s career he could manipulate iirc.

Was never a huge fan to begin with, but I liked the quote.
 
Weirdy said:
Was that before or after he got arrested for child pornography?
Click to expand...
RNthenDoc said:
Google says that never happened?

The allegation was that he wanked off in front of women who’s career he could manipulate iirc.

Was never a huge fan to begin with, but I liked the quote.
Click to expand...
Lets not just make up things. I am not a fan but he did not get arrested for child pornography.
 
RNthenDoc said:
Google says that never happened?

The allegation was that he wanked off in front of women who’s career he could manipulate iirc.

Was never a huge fan to begin with, but I liked the quote.
Click to expand...

libertyyne said:
Lets not just make up things. I am not a fan but he did not get arrested for child pornography.
Click to expand...

My apologies. I think I was getting him confused with the Subway guy.
 
I feel the same things from time to time.. I think many do, whether or not they admit it.

If I take a step back and look at a wider picture it helps me realize how good I've really got it. I was born healthy into a family that loves me and could give me shelter, food, water, and everything a kid could possibly want. That alone is winning the f_cking lottery in the grand scheme! Then I was able to go to college. And now I'm able to take more classes and apply to medical school! WTF?! If you feel like comparing yourself to others, compare yourself to the millions of kids born into poverty who literally grow up not knowing where their next meal will come from.

There's just so many people in this world that have it so much worse than I do.

Also agree that social media fuels the fire.
 
TheIllusionist said:
I have a lot of envy sometimes. It is distracting. I know rationally that it is a huge waste of time and energy, but I still have a lot of intrusive thoughts.

When I was doing just okay in school, I was envious of classmastes doing better. Now I am doing much better in school, and I find myself envious of those in other fields, namely finance, consulting, and engineering. I know top peformers in the latter three. I am in my mid 20s, and I know people my age making 150 to 400k a year in those fields (only one guy made 400k and he is in HF and his firm killed it this year). One guy posted he bought his dad a rolex for his birthday another bought his mom a car. These people are going on all these exotic vacations. They wear high end clothes and definitely get to party at more exclusive venues.

A lot of these feelings do disappear in the clinic, especially if I feel I made some sort of impact that day. Anyway, end of my ungrateful rant.

Inb4 millenial snowflake ingrate comments lmfao
Click to expand...

Read “The Millionaire Next Door” - might help put things in perspective... Chances are those that flaunt wealth aren’t really wealthy at all.
 
TheIllusionist said:
I have a lot of envy sometimes. It is distracting. I know rationally that it is a huge waste of time and energy, but I still have a lot of intrusive thoughts.

When I was doing just okay in school, I was envious of classmastes doing better. Now I am doing much better in school, and I find myself envious of those in other fields, namely finance, consulting, and engineering. I know top peformers in the latter three. I am in my mid 20s, and I know people my age making 150 to 400k a year in those fields (only one guy made 400k and he is in HF and his firm killed it this year). One guy posted he bought his dad a rolex for his birthday another bought his mom a car. These people are going on all these exotic vacations. They wear high end clothes and definitely get to party at more exclusive venues.

A lot of these feelings do disappear in the clinic, especially if I feel I made some sort of impact that day. Anyway, end of my ungrateful rant.

Inb4 millenial snowflake ingrate comments lmfao
Click to expand...

Making that much at that age is extremely uncommon. It's literally close to 0.1%.


EMhopeful2 said:
Yeah I was surprised at first too. I don't have game or model looks, so I've never been great with women. A friend told me she was single and I guess she appreciated my honesty, thought I was "really smart" (it's not hard to appear smart in front of women in that line of work) and we hit it off.
Click to expand...

You don't need model looks, you just need to be a very solid 7 (face wise) which is actually not easy to be.
 
Just to offer a different perspective, I've felt quite a bit of envy myself. But personally, I'm finding that any feelings of envy I have is more a reflection on my own sense of dissatisfaction, rather than what someone else has or doesn't have. If you're content with your life, you won't care what someone else is making or not making.

So question comes, why you're feeling that envy. As someone said earlier, do you want those things for some external reason, or for yourself?
Using myself as an example, I'm not happy with being a doctor, I realized this is not what I expected and I just want more time to be there for my loved ones and not be stuck behind a computer typing away notes in a hospital basement 60+ hours a week.
So when I see friends working 9-5, travelling with their families and celebrating holidays and birthdays together, I get incredibly envious because deep down I know that is what I want and my career choices are keeping me from that.
On the other hand, I see rich finance guys with sports cars and fancy apartments, and though those things are nice, I don't feel a shred of envy cause I know they are sacrificing time with loved ones to attain that lifestyle.
The thing keeping me going now is the hope that my effort now will hopefully provide years of financial stability, flexible hours, and job security, all of which will allow me to support my family. And as others have echoed keeping things in perspective and counting the blessings you do have helps quell any sense of envy that might be there.

I know a lot of folks are saying to suck it up, but I think envy can sometimes shine some light onto what you value and what you want out of life. Then tailor what you're doing now to align with those values. However, if you're already happy with what you're doing and you know the money and Rolexes won't bring you fulfillment then you're on the right track and don't worry what the guys on facebook are doing. Worse case scenario, you can become a hot shot cardiologist or surgeon and have that money and life with way more job security when the time comes.
 
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zeppelinpage4 said:
Just to offer a different perspective, I've felt quite a bit of envy myself. But personally, I'm finding that any feelings of envy I have is more a reflection on my own sense of dissatisfaction, rather than what someone else has or doesn't have. If you're content with your life, you won't care what someone else is making or not making.

So question comes, why you're feeling that envy. As someone said earlier, do you want those things for some external reason, or for yourself?
Using myself as an example, I'm not happy with being a doctor, I realized this is not what I expected and I just want more time to be there for my loved ones and not be stuck behind a computer typing away notes in a hospital basement 60+ hours a week.
So when I see friends working 9-5, travelling with their families and celebrating holidays and birthdays together, I get incredibly envious because deep down I know that is what I want and my career choices are keeping me from that.
On the other hand, I see rich finance guys with sports cars and fancy apartments, and though those things are nice, I don't feel a shred of envy cause I know they are sacrificing time with loved ones to attain that lifestyle.
The thing keeping me going now is the hope that my effort now will hopefully provide years of financial stability, flexible hours, and job security, all of which will allow me to support my family. And as others have echoed keeping things in perspective and counting the blessings you do have helps quell any sense of envy that might be there.

I know a lot of folks are saying to suck it up, but I think envy can sometimes shine some light onto what you value and what you want out of life. Then tailor what you're doing now to align with those values. However, if you're already happy with what you're doing and you know the money and Rolexes won't bring you fulfillment then you're on the right track and don't worry what the guys on facebook are doing. Worse case scenario, you can become a hot shot cardiologist or surgeon and have that money and life with way more job security when the time comes.
Click to expand...

Agree with your first paragraph and I think that’s a very mature and insightful way of looking at envy. As for your dissatisfaction, and wish that you were in a 9-to-5 job, I understand and I think a lot of us feel the same. I suggest you seek out counseling — I have found it helpful. These feelings can really drag you down and make you forget why we are doing this in the first place—I assume at some point you went into medicine to help people, not to write notes in a basement.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
Weirdy said:
Have a wife who beats it out of me.

"You think I can get that residency?" - "Not if you don't pass your next exam"

"I just bombed my test" -"Did you score within the box? Did you pass?"- "...yeah..."- "There you go. What's important is you passed!"

"He has such a nice car. Starting price is 80k" - "You don't need that car. Just buy that S2000 you always wanted when you have enough."- "Oh you right..."

"Class average was a 90...I barely scraped a B." - "Honey you're lucky you even made it into school. You were never that smart anyways!"

Standing behind every successful man is a woman rolling her eyes. My wife is the same way.[/QUOTE]
Click to expand...
 
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