How do you guys pay for school tuition?

[yuppers]

Working for yourself is a lot harder than working for the government.

But working for yourself is much more rewarding and profitable.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Major Groove]

And yes, these can be perceived as some of the cons of military dentistry. I will say as a military dental provider, you are VERY involved in the ordering of supplies, but as you stated, you are NOT involved in the billing.

The two biggest negatives I have observed is your lack of controlling who your assistants are, and as you pointed out, the lack of control you have on the bottom line (until you are running the clinic as a senior officer). In the civilian world, if you assistants are not up to snuff, you fire them. In the military world, you have to deal with it.

So why the hostility?

In my short life I have discovered time and again that when two human beings communicate for a long enough period of time they find themselves agreeing with each other.

Alas, we are victims of this flimsy tool we call "language," which is why I am not going to law school.

But working for yourself is much more rewarding and profitable.

Absolutely.

You do, however, have to mow the lawn, deal with the ******* neighbors, fix the ****ing toilet, change the lightbulbs, so on and so on...

I have done it. It is worth every moment of heartache and turmoil, every second of frustration and resentment.

It is the American Dream.

 

[StirrinIt]

the majority of people are not getting help from their parents.... didnt u attend a fin aid session at ur interview?

 

[dmitriyivanov]

joonkim, welcome to the club...I put myself through undergrad and grad school with no help from my parents. Every loan is in my name...whats a few 100K more?

Take out loans, be financially responsible, and you'll be fine.

Amen to that, you are not alone here!

To the poster above, with your low income family, you could def get a low percent loan (some gov and rest private) as well as some school and state grants. Noone ever said that DS will be cheap!

 

[MichaelWestin]

Going back to the original topic/question, it seems the cost of most schools with room and board is at least 40k per year being at the bare minimum for state schools, and going considerably higher for any others, especially if you are from out of state.

In terms of financial aid, is there a special amount given for a specialty school such as dental school? Can this maximum amount typically cover all of the tuition without any out of pocket expenses?

I am in my mid 20's so I claim independent on taxes, with no income currently, and probably won't have any when I enter D school. So for example, I see on the FAFSA website something like

"Direct or FFEL PLUS Loans for Graduate and Professional Students - Maximum amount is cost of attendance minus any other financial aid the student receives"

Is that something you would typically get? A lot of answers are don't worry about it or that there are options etc. and that is cool because it shows it shouldn't be too difficult, but at the same time, I for one would just like a little bit more concrete information from those who have been through the process. Are cosigners involved, did you need a private loan for room and board (those who are not paying anything out of pocket because it is not available) etc.

 

[izzymask08]

so it is recommended to file as dependent or independent?
i live with my parents and everything.
im planning to use my parents info ...........so dependent of independent? please

 

[BiomajorPreDent]

If they provide I think over 50% of your living expenses and you will live with them, I think you would be a dependent. Someone check me though.

 

[Lethstang]

i was in the military.

dont just go in for the loan payback. lets say thats 200k over four years. the difference between your very low military salary and what you could be making with your own practice (lets say 150k here for low end for illustration vs 70k salary in the army as a captain), thats 80x3 plus , 100k for your first year as an associate , so 30k dif, thats 270k more money youre making by not going in the army. so weve proven the financial aspect. And thats using a low estimate of your private practice income, IMO youd make more depending on locale.

however, a few reasons you should. one, you get to join the military, its truly a rewarding experience. Two, youll def have the experience and speed to open your own private practice once you exit (however it can be argued that you would have this with one year of associating.).

another is you dont have to actually deal with the loans. this is a poor excuse though, you shouldnt be afraid of debt. d school debt is good debt.

Id suggest talking with a few military dentists before making your decision.

 

[izzymask08]

What about the Navy? Air Force?...if her reason is that she doesn't want you to get shipped.
What about Indian Health Services or National Health Service Corp scholarships?

the indian health service is got only loan repayment not like the scholarship for NHSC or military.

i think im right about that and if not can someone clarify that please?

 

[s2agrado]

You guys should know ALL graduate level students are considered INDEPENDENT: http://www.fafsa.ed.gov/help/fftoc03k.htm

Most dental schools still want you to put in your parents info on FAFSA even though you are independent. This helps them decide if you qualify for need based loans.

Its been my experience in undergrad that financial aid offices are not that helpful, so make sure you do research on your own. You are going to be borrowing a lot of money, so treat it as a big purchase and ensure you're getting the best deal

Most school's participate in the Health Professions loan program, which is need based (Government loan) and offers a 5% interest rate (Better than Grad plus)--so inquire about that when you get your loan packages. You may have to apply separately through the school for that loan.

 

[cmcner]

i was in the military.

dont just go in for the loan payback. lets say thats 200k over four years. the difference between your very low military salary and what you could be making with your own practice (lets say 150k here for low end for illustration vs 70k salary in the army as a captain), thats 80x3 plus , 100k for your first year as an associate , so 30k dif, thats 270k more money youre making by not going in the army. so weve proven the financial aspect.

I think the military might be more financially lucrative if you only stay for 3-4 years, especially if you go to a high tuition private school. Correct me if I'm wrong, but one of the keys is you will have to pay income tax on what you make in private practice but not on the loan reimbursement. So if you say go to USC and the military pays $280K for your tuition loans, but in private practice that would really be like paying 35% more than that when you account for income tax which is close to $400K in income value. Plus you won't accrue interest on the loans you took out, and you'll make a modest salary too.

 

[adrift1984]

i was in the military.

dont just go in for the loan payback. lets say thats 200k over four years. the difference between your very low military salary and what you could be making with your own practice (lets say 150k here for low end for illustration vs 70k salary in the army as a captain), thats 80x3 plus , 100k for your first year as an associate , so 30k dif, thats 270k more money youre making by not going in the army. so weve proven the financial aspect. And thats using a low estimate of your private practice income, IMO youd make more depending on locale.

however, a few reasons you should. one, you get to join the military, its truly a rewarding experience. Two, youll def have the experience and speed to open your own private practice once you exit (however it can be argued that you would have this with one year of associating.).

another is you dont have to actually deal with the loans. this is a poor excuse though, you shouldnt be afraid of debt. d school debt is good debt.

Id suggest talking with a few military dentists before making your decision.

your numbers and math seem to randomly be picked from the sky, which is besides the fact that your 200K estimate for school is way off.

I have the scholarship:
-tuition covered will roughly equal 300K
-instruments and required materials will be maybe another 30K
-stipend and bonus will be another 120K

-for your 4 years of work your base salary may be 70K but with allowances and raises it is proportionally a lot more

by the time you have finished your 4 years of service you will have potentially received 750-800K

Have you applied? were did you get all your numbers from? I am basing these on one of the many expensive private schools (where the scholarship is most lucrative).

There are downsides: a more narrow scope of procedures, reduced business management and some others.....but i come from a navy family and am proud to join for many reasons

do it for the right reasons though

 

[xhamburgersamx]

I think the military might be more financially lucrative if you only stay for 3-4 years, especially if you go to a high tuition private school. Correct me if I'm wrong, but one of the keys is you will have to pay income tax on what you make in private practice but not on the loan reimbursement. So if you say go to USC and the military pays $280K for your tuition loans, but in private practice that would really be like paying 35% more than that when you account for income tax which is close to $400K in income value. Plus you won't accrue interest on the loans you took out, and you'll make a modest salary too.

Good Post!

Some people are fine living/working with debt. A lot of people do not understand the concept of save/investing, instead they tend to spend most of their paychecks. It really depends on the type of person you are. It seems most people on HPSP are the ones that tend to save rather than spend and those accepting 300-400k of debt from USC or another expensive school as spenders. The spenders find that the military salary of 70k is rather low compared to the 100-200K potential income that can be earned in civilian sector. They fail to recognize that the more you earn, the more you pay in federal and state taxes. It's not unheard of 35-40% of gross income is consumed to taxes in California.

It's the whole tangible vs. intangible aspect of civilian vs. military NET income and benefits. It's really difficult to actually compare the exact numbers.

 

[spud daddy]

It's the whole tangible vs. intangible aspect of civilian vs. military NET income and benefits. It's really difficult to actually compare the exact numbers.

Exactly.

 

[subdoc]

It's the whole tangible vs. intangible aspect of civilian vs. military NET income and benefits. It's really difficult to actually compare the exact numbers.

I would have to disagree. The exact numbers are actually easy to figure out, it is just people are too lazy to do so and they accept the wild numbers people throw out as truth.

-Military pay tables (taxed) and allowance schedules (not taxed) can be found at military.com. The majority of your non-taxed allowances come from BAH, which is locality driven
-tax tables can be found at irs.gov
-avg salaries can be found at bureau of labor and statistics
-state income taxes can be calculated from the respective .gov sites
-loan calculators can be found at your loan lender
-HPSP/HSCP payment and entitlement information can be gleaned from the instruction

It would probably take a savvy individual less than an hour to research the important numbers and run them through a financial calculator (dentists are supposed to be somewhat business savvy...no?) If this is too hard to figure out, hire an accountant for a few hundred dollars (drop in the bucket when looked at as a several hundred thousand dollar decision) to run the numbers for you.

I will say it is the INTANGIBLES which are difficult to gauge, and only the future dental student can weigh the civilian vs. military for themselves. The easiest way to do so is speak with military dentists and civilian dentists and figure it out for yourself.

Also, for an earlier post by cmcner...NO WAY will you do only 3-4 years. 4 years MINIMUM is what you owe. You can probably bank of 5 years active service and a few more on the books as IRR.

Like I keep saying, look up the references on your own and get your information from the source document(s.) Trying to get gather quick answers from comments on a message board from people you don't know leads to poor decision-making.

 

[cmcner]

Also, for an earlier post by cmcner...NO WAY will you do only 3-4 years. 4 years MINIMUM is what you owe. You can probably bank of 5 years active service and a few more on the books as IRR.

Like I keep saying, look up the references on your own and get your information from the source document(s.) Trying to get gather quick answers from comments on a message board from people you don't know leads to poor decision-making.

It's a year of tuition for a year of service with a minimum of 3 years of service, please look up your references.

 

[adrift1984]

It's a year of tuition for a year of service with a minimum of 3 years of service, please look up your references.

that may be the fine print....but i think he is trying to point out the reality, in which you will spend longer than the minimum since there is training and requirements that make that time frame difficult to attain.

 

[Lethstang]

your numbers and math seem to randomly be picked from the sky, which is besides the fact that your 200K estimate for school is way off.

I have the scholarship:
-tuition covered will roughly equal 300K
-instruments and required materials will be maybe another 30K
-stipend and bonus will be another 120K

-for your 4 years of work your base salary may be 70K but with allowances and raises it is proportionally a lot more

by the time you have finished your 4 years of service you will have potentially received 750-800K

Have you applied? were did you get all your numbers from? I am basing these on one of the many expensive private schools (where the scholarship is most lucrative).

There are downsides: a more narrow scope of procedures, reduced business management and some others.....but i come from a navy family and am proud to join for many reasons

do it for the right reasons though

ok, if youre going to the most expensive school in the US, ill take your word for it that it will be a 450k scholarship so lets start with that. I do question the 120k in bonus and stipend though, theyre going to give you 30k per year in addition to your tuition? Thats great - you wont be as poor as the average student. But lets all agree this amount for four years of d school is on the high side.

as a captain youre paid 4500 a month, so 48k a year. Lets bump it up to 70k because of intangibles like insurance, free barracks etc (i dont remember if officers get free barracks like enlisted, but lets overstate military income to prove the example.)

so, my number from the skies you refer to are my estimated associate salary, as well as private practice salary. Check the forums and the web, as well as a few dental friends to come up with your own. Through my research im comfy using 100k and 150k respectively (and im using lower amounts than i really think for illustration). ill break down the math that follows so its less cryptic.

so by going in the army, you give up 80x3 (this is the dif between your military and private practice salaries) + 30 (difference between your associateship salary and army salary), which is 270k. Using your numbers you gain 450k through scholarship, which nets you 180k. This looks like a good deal for you.

This number changes based on what you think you will pull in in private practice, as well as your total DS cost. With the collosal cost of your school (450k) id say go for it. The average D student pays 200k total though so if you have a dif choice thats a bit cheaper you may want to look into it.

cmcner makes a good point, the scholarship money should be multiplied by your income tax rate, which makes it more valuable (it equates the scholarship amount to what you would have to make from a salary in those years pretax) which skews the numbers more in favor of the scholarship.

also be careful (as an above poster mentioned) .. once you sign into the military, you cant get out until they let you. If something major in the world happens you could be looking at years more of service.

 

[subdoc]

ok, if youre going to the most expensive school in the US, ill take your word for it that it will be a 450k scholarship so lets start with that. I do question the 120k in bonus and stipend though, theyre going to give you 30k per year in addition to your tuition? Thats great - you wont be as poor as the average student. But lets all agree this amount for four years of d school is on the high side.

as a captain youre paid 4500 a month, so 48k a year. Lets bump it up to 70k because of intangibles like insurance, free barracks etc (i dont remember if officers get free barracks like enlisted, but lets overstate military income to prove the example.)

HPSP pays you ~$2,000/mo. x 12 mo = ~$24,000/yr x 4 yr = ~$100,000 + $20,000 sign-on = $120,000. Our future squid's numbers are correct.

https://staynavytools.bol.navy.mil/PCC/?B3=Launch+Calculator

Run the above calculator. I think you will discover "civilian equivalent" pay is roughly 15-20% more (locality driven) than what people calculate. Meaning: say you make $100,000/yr in the military, a civilian equivalent would be $115,000-$120,000. A baby O3 (LT in the USN, Captain in USAF/USA) can expect to make more than what you are stating

Officer's don't get barracks. Officers can qualify for base housing (if they have a claimed defendant) or live on the economy. If you live in base housing, you forfeit your BAH.

 

[adrift1984]

ok, if youre going to the most expensive school in the US, ill take your word for it that it will be a 450k scholarship so lets start with that. I do question the 120k in bonus and stipend though, theyre going to give you 30k per year in addition to your tuition?

300k is a reasonable tuition cost for many private and out of staters

120k is easily broken down into a 20k bonus plus 2000 stipend (48 months)

30K comes from other expenses which if you identify as a school requirement the military reimburses you (may be on the high side)

so if i go on my low side it will be the equivalent of a 150k salary after ds.....but i have the benefit of no debt after those 4 years

we can debate money all day...........but no one should go into it for that sole reason

 

[subdoc]

It's a year of tuition for a year of service with a minimum of 3 years of service, please look up your references.

Sure, UoP is three years, but there is virtually no way you would qualify to separate at the 3 year point. If you think so, I have some ocean-front property in Arizona ready to sell you. No detailer would let your request slip through the cracks. Your orders would be cut for a PRD well after the 3 year point. Plus, PER THE REFERENCE, your resignation letter/request must be in 9-12 months before your requested date. (I know this as a 9 year active duty Naval officer going through the resignation process before I enter dental school this Sept.) If you think your CO will endorse your letter (another requirement) at the 2 1/4 year point of your obligation, you are fooling yourself. To add insult to injury, fully expect a PCS before you are eligible to separate which obligates you to further time in service. Like I said, 4 years MIN, and more than likely 5 years.

 

[subdoc]

30K comes from other expenses which if you identify as a school requirement the military reimburses you (may be on the high side)

Those numbers are a reasonable CONSERVATIVE estimate. If anything, they are low. If your school even SUGGESTS you need something, you can get it, and get reimbursed for it. If your instruments get dull or worn, automatic reimbursed replacement. All you need is your Dean to sign a form saying you need it which should be like a rubber stamp request. I would say $40,000 over 4 years is a better estimate. (This number is verified by a Navy dentist I shadow with who graduated UoP several years ago who was HPSP.)

we can debate money all day...........but no one should go into it for that sole reason

Concur. Great point. Do it to serve, NOT for the free school.

 

[xhamburgersamx]

ok, if youre going to the most expensive school in the US, ill take your word for it that it will be a 450k scholarship so lets start with that. I do question the 120k in bonus and stipend though, theyre going to give you 30k per year in addition to your tuition? Thats great - you wont be as poor as the average student. But lets all agree this amount for four years of d school is on the high side.

as a captain youre paid 4500 a month, so 48k a year. Lets bump it up to 70k because of intangibles like insurance, free barracks etc (i dont remember if officers get free barracks like enlisted, but lets overstate military income to prove the example.)

so, my number from the skies you refer to are my estimated associate salary, as well as private practice salary. Check the forums and the web, as well as a few dental friends to come up with your own. Through my research im comfy using 100k and 150k respectively (and im using lower amounts than i really think for illustration). ill break down the math that follows so its less cryptic.

so by going in the army, you give up 80x3 (this is the dif between your military and private practice salaries) + 30 (difference between your associateship salary and army salary), which is 270k. Using your numbers you gain 450k through scholarship, which nets you 180k. This looks like a good deal for you.

This number changes based on what you think you will pull in in private practice, as well as your total DS cost. With the collosal cost of your school (450k) id say go for it. The average D student pays 200k total though so if you have a dif choice thats a bit cheaper you may want to look into it.

cmcner makes a good point, the scholarship money should be multiplied by your income tax rate, which makes it more valuable (it equates the scholarship amount to what you would have to make from a salary in those years pretax) which skews the numbers more in favor of the scholarship.

also be careful (as an above poster mentioned) .. once you sign into the military, you cant get out until they let you. If something major in the world happens you could be looking at years more of service.

The avg dental school debt is around 200K nationally. Speaking of the most expensive schools like USC, NYU, UPENN, etc. it would be a much more valuable opportunity to do HPSP.

Everyone thinks they'll make 120k-150K straight out of school and 200K in private practice. Keep dreaming, as a newbie dentist, you will have to agree to work in rural Wyoming to earn those numbers. More realistically, if you can land a decent associate position, think about $400-$500 a day part time 2-3 days/per week. There aren't very many "good" full time 40-45/hour a week jobs out there except for Western Dental type places. Sure they pay decently but you definitely work for it.

Anyway, the military route is an "easy" way out of debt so to say. You have to put up with being in the military so that's basically the downfall of why 99% don't do it.

Subdoc, I don't know why you got pissed on but stop loss and other BS you probably went through sucks but happens less to commissioned officers. 3 years AD and 5 years IRR is the contract and any lawyer will happily take on your case.

 

[Lethstang]

this deal is looking better and better. you only owe three years? for some reason i thought it was 4.

and id like to agree with subdoc here. He knows what the fine print says, and what the contract states. But from personal experience, you are pwned by the military once youre in. Goodluck in your case of cpt smith vs the US govt. we should ask someone from teh military dental board to chime in here. OP wanna repost there and put the link here? This is getting intriguing.

subdoc - using the 15-20% more eq pay, youre 03 is only making (50000*1.2) = 60k a year.

adrift - this is vs what you quote of 150k a year, unless youre saying that with your military pay plus what youre making in loan paybacks per year youre doing 150kish, in which case i agree.

So the question is, is 150k a year for your first four years out of d school better or worse than what you chaps think you will do? (realize that this isnt purely a money post adrift but just putting it out there for peoples opinions. This is making me want to look into the military route deeper).

 

[subdoc]

Subdoc, I don't know why you got pissed on but stop loss and other BS you probably went through sucks but happens less to commissioned officers. 3 years AD and 5 years IRR is the contract and any lawyer will happily take on your case.

1. Didn't get pissed on. I am getting out to go to school on my terms. "Stop loss" is a term RARELY heard in Navy circles.

2. I am a commissioned officer, have been for quite some time. Resignation is a MUCH more difficult and arduous process for officers than enlisted. The only real easy ways out are to pop positive on a drug test, be really overweight, or be a homosexual. 9-12 months otherwise.

3. Sure, you can ALWAYS find a lawyer to take any case, but the million dollar question is, "Can he win?" More specifically, can he win in a short period of time.

4. A good rule of thumb is the more expensive the training, the more difficult it is to get out. Also, the more undermanned the specialty, the more difficult it is to get out.

 

[spud daddy]

1. Didn't get pissed on. I am getting out to go to school on my terms. "Stop loss" is a term RARELY heard in Navy circles.

2. I am a commissioned officer, have been for quite some time. Resignation is a MUCH more difficult and arduous process for officers than enlisted. The only real easy ways out are to pop positive on a drug test, be really overweight, or be a homosexual. 9-12 months otherwise.

3. Sure, you can ALWAYS find a lawyer to take any case, but the million dollar question is, "Can he win?" More specifically, can he win in a short period of time.

4. A good rule of thumb is the more expensive the training, the more difficult it is to get out. Also, the more undermanned the specialty, the more difficult it is to get out.

Another reason to be really careful when making a decision on applying for a military scholarship.

 

[adrift1984]

adrift - this is vs what you quote of 150k a year, unless youre saying that with your military pay plus what youre making in loan paybacks per year youre doing 150kish, in which case i agree.

Yes....the 150 is a low ball of what you can expect as a theoretical salary when you add the scholarship benefits into your military salary. I do understand everyone wanting to discuss "numbers" since it has to be a good deal for most to even consider it.

 

[Lethstang]

id say 150k your first 4 years out of d school is solid.

What about you guys?

 

[xhamburgersamx]

1. Didn't get pissed on. I am getting out to go to school on my terms. "Stop loss" is a term RARELY heard in Navy circles.

2. I am a commissioned officer, have been for quite some time. Resignation is a MUCH more difficult and arduous process for officers than enlisted. The only real easy ways out are to pop positive on a drug test, be really overweight, or be a homosexual. 9-12 months otherwise.

3. Sure, you can ALWAYS find a lawyer to take any case, but the million dollar question is, "Can he win?" More specifically, can he win in a short period of time.

4. A good rule of thumb is the more expensive the training, the more difficult it is to get out. Also, the more undermanned the specialty, the more difficult it is to get out.

Valid points - everyone should be well-informed about the resignation process and how to proceed with that. Can you explain your situation?

 

[AllIn4Dental]

to be honest i can speak from personal experience. i don't agree with what everyone is saying. i have been with girlfriend for six years of which we spent the last 4 long distance.

what everyone is saying is that you dont have to listen to your girlfriend and stay near her to have a succesful relationship, your relationship is the testament to this, you do agree with everyone.. he should do what he wants- if there right there right , we pretty much understand the pros and cons of service by now hopefully

 

[jmick101]

Well, I think subdoc has nailed down most of the salient points, so I dont have much to add except in the way of personal experience.

I am at UOP and all of us in my year group have 3 year commitments. Will we do 36 months and then get out without getting extended? I dunno, we'll see.

One thing to keep in mind is that ever present interest on student loans. Sure the scholarship covers tuition (220+ at Pacific) but it also rules out paying 10 to 30 years of accrued interest on that 220. Factor that in and the numbers change substantially. Over 30 years that 220 could easily become 440 or more.

To me it is so obvious that the scholarship should not be done for purely monetary reasons as to not need stating. I have a friend in Afghanistan who missed the birth of his first born. He aint all that happy right now and I cannot blame him. In years to come when people tell their "war stories" and what they have sacrificed he will have something to say in that regards. Much more than most of the sorry sacks who live in this country, complain about it, and have never lifted a finger for it one way or another. Thats my schpiel/rationale for dealing with deployments by the way. You just suck it up like the patriots of old and drive on.

Back to the money argument. On the flip side I wish that you predents could see the stress on my soon-to-be-graduating comrades faces. It all seems so theoretical before school kicks off. It is just numbers on some sheet of paper somewhere. And then you are going to graduate soon and the job market is tight and those student loans are looming like Everest. Most of my classmates don't know where they are going to work and a few are seriously entertaining working at Western Dental or something for the first few years until they get their speed up. Do they care they aren't "building patient base/business acumen/community goodwill"?

Frankly, most don't care, they just want a job and want to learn how real dentistry works outside of school. If you asked them now if they would go back and take the scholarship if they could, or if they would join if the military would pay off their loans, as sizable portion of them would jump at it. 3 or 4 years of seeing 1 fully financially approved patient an hour? Doesn't sound that bad to me.

I tell you a week doesn't go by that I don't tell my wife how good the Army has been to us.

 

[adrift1984]

Well, I think subdoc has nailed down most of the salient points, so I dont have much to add except in the way of personal experience.

I am at UOP and all of us in my year group have 3 year commitments. Will we do 36 months and then get out without getting extended? I dunno, we'll see.

One thing to keep in mind is that ever present interest on student loans. Sure the scholarship covers tuition (220+ at Pacific) but it also rules out paying 10 to 30 years of accrued interest on that 220. Factor that in and the numbers change substantially. Over 30 years that 220 could easily become 440 or more.

To me it is so obvious that the scholarship should not be done for purely monetary reasons as to not need stating. I have a friend in Afghanistan who missed the birth of his first born. He aint all that happy right now and I cannot blame him. In years to come when people tell their "war stories" and what they have sacrificed he will have something to say in that regards. Much more than most of the sorry sacks who live in this country, complain about it, and have never lifted a finger for it one way or another. Thats my schpiel/rationale for dealing with deployments by the way. You just suck it up like the patriots of old and drive on.

Back to the money argument. On the flip side I wish that you predents could see the stress on my soon-to-be-graduating comrades faces. It all seems so theoretical before school kicks off. It is just numbers on some sheet of paper somewhere. And then you are going to graduate soon and the job market is tight and those student loans are looming like Everest. Most of my classmates don't know where they are going to work and a few are seriously entertaining working at Western Dental or something for the first few years until they get their speed up. Do they care they aren't "building patient base/business acumen/community goodwill"?

Frankly, most don't care, they just want a job and want to learn how real dentistry works outside of school. If you asked them now if they would go back and take the scholarship if they could, or if they would join if the military would pay off their loans, as sizable portion of them would jump at it. 3 or 4 years of seeing 1 fully financially approved patient an hour? Doesn't sound that bad to me.

I tell you a week doesn't go by that I don't tell my wife how good the Army has been to us.

Great post......and good luck

 

[BiomajorPreDent]

Everyone thinks they'll make 120k-150K straight out of school and 200K in private practice. Keep dreaming, as a newbie dentist, you will have to agree to work in rural Wyoming to earn those numbers. More realistically, if you can land a decent associate position, think about $400-$500 a day part time 2-3 days/per week. There aren't very many "good" full time 40-45/hour a week jobs out there except for Western Dental type places. Sure they pay decently but you definitely work for it.

Where are you getting this information from? move to Wyoming? What? Maybe if you are practicing in a super saturated state, like California
seems to be, but anywhere else you should be fine.

All of the publications are showing $100,000-$120,000 average for new dentists graduating today working as associates, and an average of $200,000 for owners. Yes you need to build up speed, but that will happen over the first year or two out of school.

Furthermore, regardless of the "economy" there will be more dentists retiring than dentists coming out of dental school within the next decade.

Plus anyone entering for the class of 2014 and 2015 next year will ride out the worst of the bad economy.

This has been discussed ad nauseum in other threads. As long as you have a DDS/DMD after your name and you are competent, there will be plenty of opportunties to make money in the next decades.

If you are only able to find part time work, you can work for two separate dentists, and fill up your week that way.

 

[dmd87]

Where are you getting this information from? move to Wyoming? What? Maybe if you are practicing in a super saturated state, like California
seems to be, but anywhere else you should be fine.

All of the publications are showing $100,000-$120,000 average for new dentists graduating today working as associates, and an average of $200,000 for owners. Yes you need to build up speed, but that will happen over the first year or two out of school.

Furthermore, regardless of the "economy" there will be more dentists retiring than dentists coming out of dental school within the next decade.

Plus anyone entering for the class of 2014 and 2015 next year will ride out the worst of the bad economy.

This has been discussed ad nasuem in other threads. As long as you have a DDS/DMD after your name and you are competant, there will be plenty of opportunties to make money in the next decades.

If you are only able to find part time work, you can work for two separate dentists, and fill up your week that way.

i sure hope you mean competent

 

[BiomajorPreDent]

i sure hope you mean competent

Hahaha, thank you. fixed.

 

[krmower]

Sure, UoP is three years, but there is virtually no way you would qualify to separate at the 3 year point. If you think so, I have some ocean-front property in Arizona ready to sell you. No detailer would let your request slip through the cracks. Your orders would be cut for a PRD well after the 3 year point. Plus, PER THE REFERENCE, your resignation letter/request must be in 9-12 months before your requested date. (I know this as a 9 year active duty Naval officer going through the resignation process before I enter dental school this Sept.) If you think your CO will endorse your letter (another requirement) at the 2 1/4 year point of your obligation, you are fooling yourself. To add insult to injury, fully expect a PCS before you are eligible to separate which obligates you to further time in service. Like I said, 4 years MIN, and more than likely 5 years.

Sorry it's like that in the Navy, but in the Army people do seperate at 3 yrs if that is the completion of their obligation. I have been in long enough to have seen docs get out at 3 yrs with no issues.

 

[joonkimdds]

Hey Joon
If you go and login in to the portal at Midwestern (where you saw your accepted student checklist) you can click on the financial services tab, then click on "Apply for Aid" then "Apply for 2010-11." There are five steps listed, the first being a walk through video tutorial that explains the various options that we, as soon to be ridiculously poor dental students, have. Check out the video, fill out your FAFSA, and apply for your loans! Et voila!

Does 1 loan pay for everything or should I apply for several loans?

 

[Aceofspades]

Does 1 loan pay for everything or should I apply for several loans?

Dude, you need to get off SDN and talk to your school's financial aid office. I don't know if you took out loans for undergrad, but you seem pretty clueless about how it works. You fill out a FASFA every year and money is divided per semester. All the money goes to the school. The school then subtracts tuition, fees, and other expenses and gives you the remainder. It becomes your duty to spend that money wisely because you won't be given anything else for the entire semester.

If you go to a cheap school, have $0 Expected Family Contribution (EFC), and haven't taken out a lot of Stafford loans in undergrad then you should only need 1 big loan every semester. 2 semesters per year and 4 years comes out to 8 loans, but they will all be Stafford so it doesn't matter the number. When it comes time for repayment your monthly payment will be split among the 8 loans. You can consolidate the loans if you wish, but unless you are getting a lower interest rate than 6.8% it won't matter.

Every month you will get a statement about the current affair of your Stafford loans. At the end of the year you will get a statement about the total accrued interest for the year. You have the option of paying off the interest, but you don't have to. If you don't pay the interest it will be capitalized and added to the principal.

 

[yuppers]

do some dental schools give full rides for low income students like a lot of top colleges do?

First of all, what student (especially a professional school student) is not low income?
But to answer your question... full rides are usually rare. Depending on the school, you may be able to get some sort of scholarship though.

 

[FC Omar]

I just got into a dental school but I am from a poor family and don't know how to pay the tuition.

At first, I was gonna join the army because they would pay for me and all the benefits I can get after graduating from DS, but I have a girlfriend and she doesn't want me to join the army. I am already feeling extremely sorry to my gf for planning a long distance relationship for next 4 years so her opinion means alot to me.

Where should I begin first?

do you have a ring on her finger? or more importantly, do you plan on putting a ring on her finger? if you dont want the loans, or a good sugardaddy, the only way i can think of is the military. girlfriends come and go. if she is true, she will stick around. especially if she realizes how much you will make on the back end.