How easy should college be?

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Hey everyone.

I'm a highschool senior who recently got accepted to University of Pennsylvania and I want to be a doctor. I hear that premed is ridiculously difficult for even the smartest people, but that Med school is even harder. So.....say I struggle through premed and get into med school....if I had a hard time with pre-med, will it signal that i can't handle med school (since its supposedly so much harder)?

Basically i'm asking....what should be my average stress level in undergrad? I sincerely don't want to study every hour of every day, i wanna do extracurriculars, have fun, etc. What's the maximum hours of studying that I should be doing before I realize that i'm just not cut out for it? I don't wanna find out that i can't cut it after its too late!

perhaps i'll give you some insight into my study habits now......basically high school is a joke....despite the fact that i'm in the 53rd best school in the country and have a 4.0 gpa, i study ZERO hours per week, do everything at the very last minute possible, and i do everything on about 4 hrs of sleep per night because i'm up talking on the phone or procrastinating on the web. basically my study habits SUCK TREMENDOUSLY.

and i'm not trying to brag because personally i don't think i'm all that smart, there are some certified geniuses at my school haha it scares me actually, seeing what i'm gonna be up against at penn...

anyway, the only class i actually study for is AP Chemistry...we have a chapter test about every other week, so i study the entire chapter and do all the practice problems on a saturday or sunday (takes about all day, 6 or 7 hrs at my local library) and i'm usually good to go from there. and i only started doing that because my grade slipped to a B.

okay so i figure that me coasting thru school with minimal effort will soon come to an end, but i don't wanna have one of those "rude awakenings" when i start college, i want to make sure i go in fully prepared to kill those premed courses with maximum efficiency, aka studying a whole lot, but in a way that i absorb information easily and understand it without having to be all stressed out like everybody says pre-med students are.

so, any tips, info, stories, study hints from successful premeds (if you're out there)....i wanna know exactly what i'm up against, maybe i'll be motivated to change my study habits or something, who knows lol.

Your freshman year will be easy for you anyway. I skated through high school with very little effort, but got good grades and had a 3.9 something my freshman yr of college. And I'm proud to say I've just been accepted into med school! So just stay determined, if you really want to be a doctor then don't let your fear stand in your way. Yes, there will be tough times or even tough semesters but you can still have a personal life and extracurriculars. Just don't sweat it! College is great, enjoy it!

 

[Moshe Rabbenu]

But you have an mdapps in your signature... Is that accidentally there so we accidentally look at it and are accidentally amazed?

No, I put that up after posting on this thread, actually. I still don't see where the boasting comes in. A 3.73 isn't exactly an earthshattering GPA. I guess my self-confidence is coming across as gloating. I don't mean to make it seem like I'm this powerhouse applicant or anything--all I'm trying to say is that I'm happy with the outcome of my college experience, and I think that the OP will be okidokie. Is that better?

 

[lsumedgirl]

Thank you all for your great advice!

So basically, what I'm gathering is that the general consensus is to take the minimum credit hours necessary during my first semester, and take the easiest courses/professors.

Now, don't get me wrong, I by no means intend to skate through college, but I want to minimize my study time so that I can devote as much time as possible to research/volunteer/extracurricular activities (and maybe get some partying in there every once in a while too hahaha). Taking only 12-15 hours sounds like a good plan.

I have no clue what the hell I want to major in. Another thing that factors into what I major in is the fact that Penn groups people together in dorms based on their major. If I major in something like biology or chemistry and am housed with a bunch of other premeds, what will life be like as opposed to me being the only premed living around other English majors? Are humanities majors easier than science majors? I'm the type of guy who can bull**** an epic paper hours before its due, btw....but this is highschool hahaha, i might not be able to get away with it in college.

And biology.....well it was so ridiculously easy the first time around that i didn't even bother to take the AP (had to choose either ap bio or ap chem) because all it was was reading the chapter and remembering what happened.....i might as well have been reading a novel but with a bunch of scientific vocab words lol. Bio tests were not too much more than reading comprehension tests. What's college bio like?

Oh, and another thing: I take AP Chemistry now, and I'm pretty confident that I am going to get a 5 on the AP test....now, if I do get a 5, then will I automatically get college credit for it or do I have the option to choose whether to apply that credit? I ask this because I hear that med schools do not take AP credit as a replacement for the prerequisites, so If I were to take the Chem AP test, then how would I fill the prerequisite in college? Take a higher level chemistry class? And if that is the case, will that be desirable? Or should I just not even take the chem AP test at all and re-take general chemistry (basically guaranteeing me an A)? I mean, I want to take the AP test because i feel like i have to prove that i can score well on college level stuff but i just don't want it to actually count for anything.

And I don't know if there's a major greek presence at penn but if so, and I joined, would it significantly cut into my research/extracurricular/volunteer time? And even if it did so a little bit, will the party time I gain be worth it?

Just relax, enjoy your summer, then jump in and see how it goes. Don't try too hard to have everything mapped out. Certainly, planning for the future is important, but you have to let some things just "fall into place." It's hard to predict how much time you'll have to devote to a class, how many ECs you can participate in, etc... until you try it out.

I've had to do the same thing with the 1st year of med school. (And I had been out of college for 5 years, so it was a rough adjustment!) I try out different study times, methods, stress relievers, etc... until I find a pattern that works for me.

I've always been used to planning out every aspect of my life, so it wasn't easy to make that transition. A lot of it came from the years b/t college and med school, when things didn't always go according to plan. But in the long run, I kept my goals in sight, priorities in line, and I'm here (and somehow surviving, which surprises me quite often).

So, my bottom line advice - you seem really smart, you know what you want in life - get your feet wet and see what works for you, not someone else. Good luck!

 

[CHAINCHOMPER]

Unless you want to sit in the back and snicker at the professor.

LOL so true. Sometimes that is so funny it is worth going to class. It's either: know people, and designate that "chill out hour" and don't know people, and ditch!

 

[Esviel]

Just relax, enjoy your summer, then jump in and see how it goes. Don't try too hard to have everything mapped out. Certainly, planning for the future is important, but you have to let some things just "fall into place." It's hard to predict how much time you'll have to devote to a class, how many ECs you can participate in, etc... until you try it out.

I've had to do the same thing with the 1st year of med school. (And I had been out of college for 5 years, so it was a rough adjustment!) I try out different study times, methods, stress relievers, etc... until I find a pattern that works for me.

I've always been used to planning out every aspect of my life, so it wasn't easy to make that transition. A lot of it came from the years b/t college and med school, when things didn't always go according to plan. But in the long run, I kept my goals in sight, priorities in line, and I'm here (and somehow surviving, which surprises me quite often).

So, my bottom line advice - you seem really smart, you know what you want in life - get your feet wet and see what works for you, not someone else. Good luck!

Wow thanks! I guess i'll probably just work this summer, get some extra cash. I'll see what happens in september! can't wait!

 

[ChubbyChaser]

The most important thing IMO, is to go to college single and to play the field for a while when you get there. Trust me, you wont regret it😉

 

[dienekes88]

Go to bed at a reasonable hour (midnight or 1AM) and wake up early (7 or 8 AM). It's easy to be efficient in the morning, because everyone else is asleep.

If I major in something like biology or chemistry and am housed with a bunch of other premeds, what will life be like as opposed to me being the only premed living around other English majors? Are humanities majors easier than science majors? I'm the type of guy who can bull**** an epic paper hours before its due, btw....but this is highschool hahaha, i might not be able to get away with it in college.

My experience was that I could NOT get away with it in college. TAs and professors would just underline sections of fluff and write in the margin, "repetitive" or "unnecessary." After trying this a couple times (once in an English class and once in a history class), I gave up trying to get around the work and started writing decent papers.

From what I hear, Penn's the real deal, dude. Unless you're just that quick and have a knack for nuanced ideas, you're going to have to work harder.

Pre-meds love to think that the humanities are easier. I didn't think that was the case at all (my BCPM is higher than my overall GPA... and I took upper level sciences like PChem and Biochem). My history seminars were easily the hardest classes I took in college. I think this stereotype is due in part to the fact that pre-meds tend to take gut courses in the humanities like "introduction to sociology." Do people who take "physics for poets" or "chemistry in popular novels" think the sciences are easy? Probably.

Oh, and another thing: I take AP Chemistry now, and I'm pretty confident that I am going to get a 5 on the AP test....now, if I do get a 5, then will I automatically get college credit for it or do I have the option to choose whether to apply that credit? I ask this because I hear that med schools do not take AP credit as a replacement for the prerequisites, so If I were to take the Chem AP test, then how would I fill the prerequisite in college? Take a higher level chemistry class? And if that is the case, will that be desirable? Or should I just not even take the chem AP test at all and re-take general chemistry (basically guaranteeing me an A)? I mean, I want to take the AP test because i feel like i have to prove that i can score well on college level stuff but i just don't want it to actually count for anything.

Usually, you have to choose to apply your AP credits. On top of that, if you want to accelerate, you'll probably have to take a placement exam. Based on your AP status and your placement exam score, the department will recommend a course for you. You don't have to follow that recommendation, i.e. you can place into PChem your freshman year and take gen chem instead.

 

[Moshe Rabbenu]

The most important thing IMO, is to go to college single and to play the field for a while when you get there. Trust me, you wont regret it😉

You sound like my ex-girlfriend. She was talking about getting married (should have been my first clue), and then she got accepted to Bucknelle for some program with music and decided it'd be better if she weren't burdened by a relationship. 🙄

Luckily, my current girlfriend is not a ******.

 

[ar2388]

Second this. I was scholarship chair at my fraternity and 90% of my job was counsuling people to drop down to 12 hours. We generally found that when we could pursuade people to drop to 12 credits (hopefully very easy credits) they did well that semester and then they did well with normal course loads in subsequent semesters. When they insisted on taking 15, 18, or in once case 20 hours they tended to do badly, then shame spiral and do just as badly or worse the next semester.

Adapting to college should be treated as a 3 credit course, unless you pledge in which case it's a 5 credit course.

Im sorry but I hate it when people who dont know me try to convince me to take less calsses. I dont want to be mean or rude but i took 18 credits my first semester and if i ahdnt i would have been really screwed. I think people shoudl take more credits in teh beginning because you tend to start wtih easy intro classes, like gen chem and intro bio and the sort. taking 18 credits as a junior when you are taking hard classes for your major will, in my opinion, be a lot harder. So before you persuade everyone to take 12 credits, why dont you think about whether this is realyl a good idea or not in the long run? why baby people?

sorry, i needed to get that out. i hate it when colleges try to baby freshman.

 

[ChubbyChaser]

You sound like my ex-girlfriend. She was talking about getting married (should have been my first clue), and then she got accepted to Bucknelle for some program with music and decided it'd be better if she weren't burdened by a relationship. 🙄

Luckily, my current girlfriend is not a ******.

lol im not a ****. I think there is a big difference bw going from high school to college and going from college to grad school. High school relationships are usually pretty meaningless, atleast mine were and there is no point wasting your time on them.

Not to be mean or anything, maybe she just wanted an easy excuse to get out of the relationship. Either way, congrats on your current Gf not being ******ed 😀

 

[ChubbyChaser]

Im sorry but I hate it when people who dont know me try to convince me to take less calsses. I dont want to be mean or rude but i took 18 credits my first semester and if i ahdnt i would have been really screwed. I think people shoudl take more credits in teh beginning because you tend to start wtih easy intro classes, like gen chem and intro bio and the sort. taking 18 credits as a junior when you are taking hard classes for your major will, in my opinion, be a lot harder. So before you persuade everyone to take 12 credits, why dont you think about whether this is realyl a good idea or not in the long run? why baby people?

sorry, i needed to get that out. i hate it when colleges try to baby freshman.

I did what you did started out with 18 hours, and am glad I did because now I dont have many classes left my Sr year. Nevertheless, I do see a point in encouraging freshman to take a little lighter load, it probably makes the adjustment easier. BUt hey!, if you think you can take 17 or 18 credit hours, more power to ya.

 

[Perrotfish]

Im sorry but I hate it when people who dont know me try to convince me to take less calsses. I dont want to be mean or rude but i took 18 credits my first semester and if i ahdnt i would have been really screwed. I think people shoudl take more credits in teh beginning because you tend to start wtih easy intro classes, like gen chem and intro bio and the sort. taking 18 credits as a junior when you are taking hard classes for your major will, in my opinion, be a lot harder. So before you persuade everyone to take 12 credits, why dont you think about whether this is realyl a good idea or not in the long run? why baby people?

First, you should type much more slowly.

Second, it's not just about babying people, it's also about acknowledging that they're going to be occupied with other very time intensive activities their first semester: meeting people, making friends, and trying out numerous different social groups and activities. By the time they get to second semester they're moved on from making friends (time intensive) to mostly just maintaining friends (not very time intensive), and they've probably settled on one or two activities as well. That frees up their time for more coursework.

Third, another reason most college advisors recommend people take relatively few credits their first semester it so that people get to figure out the easy way what their comfort level in college is. This is especially true at top colleges, where everyone got straight As in HS and only a small porportion will continue to do as well in college. If the new students find 12 credits exteremely easy, I strongly doubt that not taking that one extra class is going to affect their graduation time. If they take 18 credits and manage to fail half of them, however, it could greately affect their chances at medical school or even just graduating. Again, caution is not the same as 'babying' someone.

Finally, there is (I'll admit) an element of easing people in to more difficult course work, which you might call babying. Keep in mind, though, most students at good colleges never studied in HS. It takes more than a week or two to make the adjustment from 'I'm done when I'm done with classes' to 'I need to be in the library several hours a day'. Now if you had already made that adjustement before starting college, or if you were one of the lucky few that won't need to adjust until medical school, good on you. That doesn't mean it's good advice to tell incoming Freshman to take 18 credit hours their first semester.

 

[ar2388]

First, you should type much more slowly.

Second, it's not about babying people, it's about acknowledging that they're going to be occupied with other very time intensive activities their first semester: meeting people, making friends, and trying out numerous different social groups and activities. By the time they get to second semester they're moved on from making friends (time intensive) to mostly just maintaining friends (not very time intensive), and they've probably settled on one or two activities as well.

Third, the other reason most college advisors recommend people take relative few credits their first semester it so that people get to figure out the easy way what their comfort level in college is. This is especially true at top colleges, where everyone got straight As in HS and only a small porportion will continue to do as well in college. If the new students find 12 credits exteremely easy, I strongly doubt that not taking that one extra class is going to affect their graduation time. If they take 18 credits and manage to fail half of them, however, it could greately affect their chances at medical school or even just graduating. Again, caution is not the same as 'babying' someone.

i agree with the typing more slowly. I can understand caution. But what was said sounded like convincing people to take less credits. I have come across many an advisor who will not allow their advisees to take more than 12-14 credits their first semester. Hm.. not sure what else to say without sounding like im just repeating myself. I am in favor of cautioning but ultimately letting the student decide 🙄

hope i wasnt too much of a b*tch. really didnt want to be, i swear

these super smileys are awesome

 

[Perrotfish]

I am in favor of cautioning but ultimately letting the student decide 🙄

The basic problem here is that

1) You get a cautionary 'it's not going to easy anymore' speech at the start of every year beginning in 7th grade. For students at a top college, every year so far that speech has turned out to be a lie, so they've learned to ignore the speech. When they hear it in college they ignore it again and decide to try and take 18 hours of hard sciences.

2) The only way you can get them to believe that college is an entirely different animal (which it is for most of them) is to expose them to it. The reasons a lot of advisors won't let you take over 15 credits, and that fraternities browbeat their pledges into dropping classes and going to mandatory study hours, is that they don't want you to fail out in the process of getting exposed. After the new students have barely gotten Bs taking 12 credit hours they learn to plan their future schedules accordingly.

And again, if you're one of the lucky few who actually CAN get straight As taking 18 hours, well you're only one class behind and you can take 18 hours the next semester.

 

[mynamewastaken]

I went to Penn for undergrad so I thought I'd chime in...First of all, I've never heard of dividing dorms by major. You don't even have to declare a major until the end of your second year. You might be thinking about certain scholars programs, but that may apply to 10 or so people in a class of 1500. Secondly, Penn is well aware that the vast majority of their incoming class is similar to you. Even though you claim you don't study you have obviously received stellar grades and way above average SAT scores (as there is no indication you're an athlete! 😀. If i may make a generalization here I'd like to warn you that you WILL need to study. Everyone at Penn is very smart and premeds for the most part are hard workers....this quickly creates the sink or swim environment. Just to throw in some practical advice here...I think that the biggest adjustment to Penn academics is the size and competition of classes. In basic sciences your grade will depend on how you do relative to your classmates. Because general chemistry is intro chemistry this necessitates harder exams. Every student can read and understand the contents of the book/lectures. The exams will expect an abstract understanding of these concepts and attempt to separate the A-s from the B's. At certain times, I felt like I was taking an IQ test in certain classes. Orgo for instance: I mastered every mechanism, reaction, etc... but the exams took that for granted-the prof knew that everyone did. For knowing EVERYTHING you could get a B but to get that A you'll need to figure out things you've never seen before....this will effectively differentiate those A from B students. Good for us though, a B in Penn orgo is just fine. Anyway, I digressed. I really just wanted to post to simply say that it is hard for anyone else to tell you how much/often to study. You will figure this out as you go. My practical advice would be to start off conservatively by feeling things out (maybe with some gen requirements and one science). If you want to get mostly A's be prepared to extend yourself and make an effort to immerse yourself in the subject material. That being said, the most successful students (and applicants to medical school) are those who are well rounded and live a meaningful and fulfilling life beyond classes. Good luck.

 

[njbmd]

Hey everyone.

I'm a highschool senior who recently got accepted to University of Pennsylvania and I want to be a doctor. I hear that premed is ridiculously difficult for even the smartest people, but that Med school is even harder. So.....say I struggle through premed and get into med school....if I had a hard time with pre-med, will it signal that i can't handle med school (since its supposedly so much harder)?

Basically i'm asking....what should be my average stress level in undergrad? I sincerely don't want to study every hour of every day, i wanna do extracurriculars, have fun, etc. What's the maximum hours of studying that I should be doing before I realize that i'm just not cut out for it? I don't wanna find out that i can't cut it after its too late!

perhaps i'll give you some insight into my study habits now......basically high school is a joke....despite the fact that i'm in the 53rd best school in the country and have a 4.0 gpa, i study ZERO hours per week, do everything at the very last minute possible, and i do everything on about 4 hrs of sleep per night because i'm up talking on the phone or procrastinating on the web. basically my study habits SUCK TREMENDOUSLY.

and i'm not trying to brag because personally i don't think i'm all that smart, there are some certified geniuses at my school haha it scares me actually, seeing what i'm gonna be up against at penn...

anyway, the only class i actually study for is AP Chemistry...we have a chapter test about every other week, so i study the entire chapter and do all the practice problems on a saturday or sunday (takes about all day, 6 or 7 hrs at my local library) and i'm usually good to go from there. and i only started doing that because my grade slipped to a B.

okay so i figure that me coasting thru school with minimal effort will soon come to an end, but i don't wanna have one of those "rude awakenings" when i start college, i want to make sure i go in fully prepared to kill those premed courses with maximum efficiency, aka studying a whole lot, but in a way that i absorb information easily and understand it without having to be all stressed out like everybody says pre-med students are.

so, any tips, info, stories, study hints from successful premeds (if you're out there)....i wanna know exactly what i'm up against, maybe i'll be motivated to change my study habits or something, who knows lol.

First of all, I have never considered myself a "smart" person in terms of high IQ. I never scored above 100 on any IQ test that I ever took but I was definitely a very good student. I ended up with great grades in undergrad and thoroughly enjoyed my college experience. I was also a varsity athlete and enjoyed playing on my college tennis team.

I sort of approached my undergraduate studies like I approached my opponents on the tennis court. I practiced and honed my strokes, kept myself in good physical condition and generally hit each ball that came over the net. I definitely dealt with whatever the came my way without worrying about the next ball or the previous one. In the end, I certainly won more games/matches than I lost.

You can't concern yourself about the "competition". You can only take care of your own needs. If something is a weakness, work on it until it becomes a strength. If something is strong, keep it strong. You can only do one semester at a time and you can't get "hung up" on what other students are doing.

Keep up with your reading, lectures and work. I never went to class unprepared and I was a daily studier. I got ahead and kept ahead of my class and professors (that way if I got sick, I would not get behind). I reviewed the previous lectures material, studied the current lecture material and previewed for the upcoming lecture/lab. On the weekends, I reviewed the previous week's work and prepared for the upcoming lectures.

If I wanted to "party with my peeps", I got my work done before party time. I definitely enjoyed the parties but they didn't interfere with my studies. I was able to have a great social life with a double major in chemistry and biology and double minors in physics and math. I just made sure that I took care of business before pleasure.

I also had a very solid grounding in math before I started college. My secondary school had gotten me though the equivalent of two semesters of Calculus and thus, my first college-level math class was a third semester of Calculus. My thorough math grounding made my science classes flow smoothly and were enjoyable. I can't emphasize the importance of solid math skills for pre-med work.

Remember, you have one shot at college/university. You need to do everything that you can not to blow your chances. This means making your studies a priority and working on them daily. Besides keeping you ahead of the game, this is good practice for medical school. If you have a 4.0 with minimal study, then use that time to do other things like Honors projects or reseach.

The next thing to remember is that you are only in competition with yourself. Strive for improvement and thorough knowledge mastery. If you only look at the grades, you will greatly limit yourself. If you thoroughly master the knowledge of your courses, you will get the grades. At the first sign of any trouble, get help and keep getting help until you are back on track. Good luck!

 

[Moshe Rabbenu]

lol im not a ****. I think there is a big difference bw going from high school to college and going from college to grad school. High school relationships are usually pretty meaningless, atleast mine were and there is no point wasting your time on them.

Not to be mean or anything, maybe she just wanted an easy excuse to get out of the relationship. Either way, congrats on your current Gf not being ******ed 😀

Yeah, she probably did just want an excuse to get out of the relationship. But, I'm glad she did, because she was a bitch. She cheated on me two times (that I know of). She's just a lunatic. I feel bad now, because she is fighting cancer, but I'm really glad we didn't stay together. I wouldn't have met my current, non-**** girlfriend. 😀

 

[Esviel]

For knowing EVERYTHING you could get a B but to get that A you'll need to figure out things you've never seen before....this will effectively differentiate those A from B students.

Oh god....this is what scares me the most....the one problem that I have is that I find it extremely difficult to think "abstractly". I don't even know what "abstract thinking" really is, but I assume that it's what you use when you solve brain-teasers and puzzles and the like. Is there any way for me to somehow sharpen this skill?

 

[ChubbyChaser]

Oh god....this is what scares me the most....the one problem that I have is that I find it extremely difficult to think "abstractly". I don't even know what "abstract thinking" really is, but I assume that it's what you use when you solve brain-teasers and puzzles and the like. Is there any way for me to somehow sharpen this skill?

Be thankful that your school will require that "abstract thinking", that is what 80% of the MCAT is about. You will probably be prepared very well. If you did very well on the SAT especially the math portion, you are very capable of thinking "abstractly", or atleast when I took it.

 

[MattD]

Stuff about frats.

Yeah, I think my school just took the rediculousness to a new level 🙂 I do admit to having some philosophical differences with the concept of a social frat, but I try not to let that bias me, after all, different strokes for different folks and all that. My school really was pretty bad about beating down pledges though 🙂

As far as taking a light class load for first semester, it's true that many-to-most students would benefit from easing in to the new academic environment they're in. However, I don't think arbitrarily limiting to the minimum is necessarily the answer. 12 hours of difficult classes will still kick your butt if you don't have good study skills yet. I think it's perfectly acceptable to take up to 15 if you want, the key is to be smart about WHICH classes you take, enrolling in a mix of challenging and easier classes. In fact, I think telling people to only register for 12 hours is a BAD idea, as it leaves them no flexibility to drop a course they're struggling with. Taking 15 means if one is kicking their butt, and it's not a time issue but just a topic they're struggling with, they're stuck there because dropping it would send them below full time. Just my personal opinion on early scheduling 🙂

 

[MattD]

Dude, Give me a break. If you have to spend more than 60 hours a week studying for 12-15 credits of first year classes such as basic bio, gen chem, algebra or whatever, then how are you supposed to make it through medical school or even get into medical school? There wont be a spare minute in your day.

I dont think my comment was any more "smug or condescending" then your personal attack on me.

It wasn't a personal attack. That would be a TOS violation!!!!! 🙂 It was simply an attack on the opinion you gave, which I disagree with strongly. The OP did not ask "How much will I study FIRST SEMESTER", he asked about the general difficulty of college. I never claimed that you should need 60 hours per week for a 12 hour first semester (btw, ALGEBRA was a first year class for you?.....) However, there are perfectly valid reasons that someone might need that much time first semester that do not indicate inability to succeed. For instance, perhaps the difficulty level gap between his HS and college is large and it took a semester or so to adjust his study habits and techniques. Perhaps after breezing through HS he needs to learn to study efficiently, period. That doesn't translate into 60 hours per week first semester, then OMGZ 110 hours per week junior year due to the upper level courses! It's just an adjustment period. There are also people out there who simply don't have a natural ability to do well without a lot of effort, as njbmd alluded to. That doesn't mean they can't work very hard and be successful if that's what they want to do.

Feel however you'd like about my 'tone', but I think it's bad form to tell a complete stranger what career they should or should not consider based solely on a comparison of how long it took YOU to succeed, or even how long it takes MOST to succeed, and how long it takes that INDIVIDUAL to succeed. The only thing that matters is if he can handle the load, whatever that load may be. Also, once you're actually IN medical school (assuming your title-thingy is accurate), then you can give an accurate opinion about how difficult it is. I think you'll find the horror is greatly exaggerated. The people who study all the time are the same people who studied all the time in undergrad. Which is a bigger percentage of pre-meds than you seem to think. The people who didn't study all the time in undergrad also study less now. Granted, everyone studies more than they did before, but it's not the huge jump you seem to imply it will be. And yes, just like the HS-college adjustment, there is an adjustment when you start med school to yet another study method. Most folks survive, and many study less in later blocks than the first one, just due to having adapted.

To the OP -- Work hard when you begin, so that you don't fall behind (like I did). Once you know the situation and how much you HAVE to study, you can let up until you get to a level you feel comfortable with that leaves you time to do the things you enjoy. If you do fall behind early, don't panic, you've got lots of time to bring it up. Just try not to let your 'falling behind' be a 1.5 or somthing 🙂 Also, the most valuable advice that most people think is obvious but apparently isn't: If you're not going to attend a course you enrolled in, you HAVE TO DROP IT! The teacher won't just notice you didn't take the first 2 tests and drop you automatically, you WILL make an F. I know, I know, seems like a 'duh' sorta thing, but my god i knew so many people second semester freshman year with F's on their transcript because of that. 🙂

 

[ChubbyChaser]

So MattD, you're saying that anybody can get into medical school, as long as they work hard/long enough? Sorry, thats too utopian sounding for me.

No algebra wasnt a first year class for me (ive only taken three maths calc 1/2 and stats) ,but alegbra is a first year class for some ppl.

I'm sorry I dont have first hand experience as to the difficulty of medical school, but you must remember we are in a PRE-ALLOPATHIC forum. So what I know and what most other ppl know comes mostly from heresay. The medical students that I know say that medical school requires a much greater amount of study time then undergrad, and if undergrad requires all of your study time then I just expected medical school to be next to impossible.

 

[JMedical08]

Hey everyone.

I'm a highschool senior who recently got accepted to University of Pennsylvania and I want to be a doctor. I hear that premed is ridiculously difficult for even the smartest people, but that Med school is even harder. So.....say I struggle through premed and get into med school....if I had a hard time with pre-med, will it signal that i can't handle med school (since its supposedly so much harder)?

Basically i'm asking....what should be my average stress level in undergrad? I sincerely don't want to study every hour of every day, i wanna do extracurriculars, have fun, etc. What's the maximum hours of studying that I should be doing before I realize that i'm just not cut out for it? I don't wanna find out that i can't cut it after its too late!

perhaps i'll give you some insight into my study habits now......basically high school is a joke....despite the fact that i'm in the 53rd best school in the country and have a 4.0 gpa, i study ZERO hours per week, do everything at the very last minute possible, and i do everything on about 4 hrs of sleep per night because i'm up talking on the phone or procrastinating on the web. basically my study habits SUCK TREMENDOUSLY.

and i'm not trying to brag because personally i don't think i'm all that smart, there are some certified geniuses at my school haha it scares me actually, seeing what i'm gonna be up against at penn...

anyway, the only class i actually study for is AP Chemistry...we have a chapter test about every other week, so i study the entire chapter and do all the practice problems on a saturday or sunday (takes about all day, 6 or 7 hrs at my local library) and i'm usually good to go from there. and i only started doing that because my grade slipped to a B.

okay so i figure that me coasting thru school with minimal effort will soon come to an end, but i don't wanna have one of those "rude awakenings" when i start college, i want to make sure i go in fully prepared to kill those premed courses with maximum efficiency, aka studying a whole lot, but in a way that i absorb information easily and understand it without having to be all stressed out like everybody says pre-med students are.

so, any tips, info, stories, study hints from successful premeds (if you're out there)....i wanna know exactly what i'm up against, maybe i'll be motivated to change my study habits or something, who knows lol.

In high school, I didn't do **** and passed every AP exam, 5s on nearly all of them (except English), aced the SATs, highest grades in most of my classes. College was a lot harder. This is not true for everyone, I studied engineering at a very competitive school that is known for its difficulty and workload (I'm not talking about Harvard or a school that has a good rep but has a rep as being easy) and I got screwed. I think the worst thing was that I lost my confidence and started settling for lower grades because I realized that everyone else in my class was so smart. I picked myself up and by the end of college and in my master's program, school was relatively easy. You need to start working on developing a work ethic because if Penn is as hard or nearly as hard as the schools I went to and if you choose a difficult academic program, then you're going to need a work ethic.

 

[JMedical08]

Your freshman year will be easy for you anyway. I skated through high school with very little effort, but got good grades and had a 3.9 something my freshman yr of college. And I'm proud to say I've just been accepted into med school! So just stay determined, if you really want to be a doctor then don't let your fear stand in your way. Yes, there will be tough times or even tough semesters but you can still have a personal life and extracurriculars. Just don't sweat it! College is great, enjoy it!

This is not true for every major and every school.

 

[Perrotfish]

hours of difficult classes will still kick your butt if you don't have good study skills yet. I think it's perfectly acceptable to take up to 15 if you want, the key is to be smart about WHICH classes you take, enrolling in a mix of challenging and easier classes.

Well yes, that makes perfect sense. However that just means your academic advisor should have discretion to limit your schedule, not that their shouldn't be limits. That way if he sees you're taking 15 credits of basket weaving he can approve it, and if he see 12 credits of quantum physics he can make you reregister even though you're technically at the minimum number of hours.

Also, of course, this is more important depending on when a school's drop day is. If it's half way through the semester you can possibly risk more classes than if you only have a few weeks (though I'd still stick with 12 credits).

 

[MattD]

So MattD,

Please, call me Matt, MattD is my FATHER! <gosh>

you're saying that anybody can get into medical school, as long as they work hard/long enough? Sorry, thats too utopian sounding for me.

Of course not, I'm simply saying that you're not the gatekeeper. If someone can work hard and get into med school, then obviously the admissions folks thought he could handle it and he deserves a shot.

I'm sorry I dont have first hand experience as to the difficulty of medical school,

I forgive you

but you must remember we are in a PRE-ALLOPATHIC forum. So what I know and what most other ppl know comes mostly from heresay. The medical students that I know say that medical school requires a much greater amount of study time then undergrad, and if undergrad requires all of your study time then I just expected medical school to be next to impossible.

I'm aware of where I'm posting. I'm contributing my own hearsay. Take it FWIW, YMMV, and all other applicable abbreviations. I don't study that much harder than I did in undergrad, but I was an engineering major. I can easily see how people with less projects/problems to solve in their off time would experience a bigger bump than I did. That doesn't change my point. My purpose in mentioning that you're in yet wasn't to belittle you or call you a 'whippersnapper' or anything, I was just pointing out that it might not be the skull crush that people tell you it is. Med students love to whine even more than pre-meds 🙂

 

[MattD]

Well yes, that makes perfect sense. However that just means your academic advisor should have discretion to limit your schedule, not that their shouldn't be limits. That way if he sees you're taking 15 credits of basket weaving he can approve it, and if he see 12 credits of quantum physics he can make you reregister even though you're technically at the minimum number of hours.

Eh, I'm a little more of a self-responsibility type than that, I think the advisor should advise strongly against it, but if a student is stupid and ignores that advice, well, that's his decision to live with. But you're right, a student with foresight will take it easy first semester to adjust.

Also, of course, this is more important depending on when a school's drop day is. If it's half way through the semester you can possibly risk more classes than if you only have a few weeks (though I'd still stick with 12 credits).

I definitely agree with that, sometimes classes seem easier than they are at first 🙂

 

[45408]

Go to bed at a reasonable hour (midnight or 1AM) and wake up early (7 or 8 AM). It's easy to be efficient in the morning, because everyone else is asleep.

Bad idea. You can get up early for the rest of your life. Sleep a LOT in college.

 

[dienekes88]

Bad idea. You can get up early for the rest of your life. Sleep a LOT in college.

HAHA. 7-8 hours isn't enough sleep? I'm 100% for naps in the afternoon.

I'm just more productive and more efficient in the morning, and the OP wanted a couple ideas for maximizing effiency...

 

[Quix]

Bad idea. You can get up early for the rest of your life. Sleep a LOT in college.

Yeah, I'm doing this now, much to my chagrin. Usually it's asleep by 1 AM and awake by 6:30 AM.

 

[45408]

HAHA. 7-8 hours isn't enough sleep? I'm 100% for naps in the afternoon.

I'm just more productive and more efficient in the morning, and the OP wanted a couple ideas for maximizing effiency...

I could easily sleep 10 hours a night consistently, and any chance I get, I'll sleep 12 hours. Crash at 2am and wake up at 2pm. Awesome.

 

[SilkyDelicious]

Thank you all for your great advice!

So basically, what I'm gathering is that the general consensus is to take the minimum credit hours necessary during my first semester, and take the easiest courses/professors.

Now, don't get me wrong, I by no means intend to skate through college, but I want to minimize my study time so that I can devote as much time as possible to research/volunteer/extracurricular activities (and maybe get some partying in there every once in a while too hahaha). Taking only 12-15 hours sounds like a good plan.

I have no clue what the hell I want to major in. Another thing that factors into what I major in is the fact that Penn groups people together in dorms based on their major. If I major in something like biology or chemistry and am housed with a bunch of other premeds, what will life be like as opposed to me being the only premed living around other English majors? Are humanities majors easier than science majors? I'm the type of guy who can bull**** an epic paper hours before its due, btw....but this is highschool hahaha, i might not be able to get away with it in college.

And biology.....well it was so ridiculously easy the first time around that i didn't even bother to take the AP (had to choose either ap bio or ap chem) because all it was was reading the chapter and remembering what happened.....i might as well have been reading a novel but with a bunch of scientific vocab words lol. Bio tests were not too much more than reading comprehension tests. What's college bio like?

Oh, and another thing: I take AP Chemistry now, and I'm pretty confident that I am going to get a 5 on the AP test....now, if I do get a 5, then will I automatically get college credit for it or do I have the option to choose whether to apply that credit? I ask this because I hear that med schools do not take AP credit as a replacement for the prerequisites, so If I were to take the Chem AP test, then how would I fill the prerequisite in college? Take a higher level chemistry class? And if that is the case, will that be desirable? Or should I just not even take the chem AP test at all and re-take general chemistry (basically guaranteeing me an A)? I mean, I want to take the AP test because i feel like i have to prove that i can score well on college level stuff but i just don't want it to actually count for anything.

And I don't know if there's a major greek presence at penn but if so, and I joined, would it significantly cut into my research/extracurricular/volunteer time? And even if it did so a little bit, will the party time I gain be worth it?

Honestly you sound a lot like I was in high school, and have a similar approach to your first year in college.

You definitely should not take the credit for AP classes, especially if they're premed requirements (I believe most med schools do not accept AP credit, though I'm sure there are exceptions). Load up your first semester with classes you essentially had in high school. For example, my first semester was Calc I, Gen Chem, Engineering 12? (computer programming), Engin 195 (2 credit blow off class), and a 1st year seminar (Undergraduate Research Opportunity Program, which most decent schools have something similar to). This was 17 credits, and it was very easy. I had AP Calc AB & BC, AP Computer Science, and AP Chem in high school so I essentially repeated all of these classes. I started college with the expectation that it would be a lot more difficult so I wanted to get a 4.0 off the bat. I studied hard for my first few exams and got high A's on all of them and basically coasted through the rest of the semester, and got by by just attending class and paying attention (accept on fridays). So you don't need to take the minimum credits, just take the right ones and make sure they'll count towards your major.

I joined a fraternity my first semester and it is what you make of it. You'll soon learn that they need you probably more than you need them. At least this was my opinion and I never got a hard time from any of the older guys. Yes we had to get up early to clean on Sunday and had weekly meetings and partied 3/4 days a week, but we were never forced to drink by any means. For me it was all about having fun and meeting new people. I know there is a pretty decent sized greek presence at Penn and yes it probably will cut into your other time, but it's definitely worth it if you're anything like me.

I also had time to work in a research lab ~10 hrs/wk, and I played club ice hockey, which at my school was pretty time consuming, practice 3 mornings/wk, games every weekend, etc.

I did exactly what I wanted to do my first year in college and it was the funnest time of my life. I probably could've spent more time volunteering in a hospital or something and less time partying, but you'll have 3 more years to do all that good stuff.

As for your major, choose something that you like. I did biomedical engineering and minored in Spanish, and it was great. I took class every spring term to graduate on time, but in my opinion that was the best time to be at school. Taking 1 or 2 classes, and not really having any other real committments left a lot of time to hang out with my friends and enjoy the nice weather. Plus med schools can't look at your application and wonder why you weren't working/volunteering/etc. because you were busy taking class trying to graduate in 4 years 😉.

College should be fun and a time to learn a lot about yourself. You should do what makes you happy and live for the moment because 4 years goes by pretty quickly. Work hard and play harder...cheesey yes, but so true.

 

[Jolie South]

Honestly you sound a lot like I was in high school, and have a similar approach to your first year in college.

You definitely should not take the credit for AP classes, especially if they're premed requirements (I believe most med schools do not accept AP credit, though I'm sure there are exceptions). Load up your first semester with classes you essentially had in high school. For example, my first semester was Calc I, Gen Chem, Engineering 12? (computer programming), Engin 195 (2 credit blow off class), and a 1st year seminar (Undergraduate Research Opportunity Program, which most decent schools have something similar to). This was 17 credits, and it was very easy. I had AP Calc AB & BC, AP Computer Science, and AP Chem in high school so I essentially repeated all of these classes. I started college with the expectation that it would be a lot more difficult so I wanted to get a 4.0 off the bat. I studied hard for my first few exams and got high A's on all of them and basically coasted through the rest of the semester, and got by by just attending class and paying attention (accept on fridays). So you don't need to take the minimum credits, just take the right ones and make sure they'll count towards your major.

I joined a fraternity my first semester and it is what you make of it. You'll soon learn that they need you probably more than you need them. At least this was my opinion and I never got a hard time from any of the older guys. Yes we had to get up early to clean on Sunday and had weekly meetings and partied 3/4 days a week, but we were never forced to drink by any means. For me it was all about having fun and meeting new people. I know there is a pretty decent sized greek presence at Penn and yes it probably will cut into your other time, but it's definitely worth it if you're anything like me.

I also had time to work in a research lab ~10 hrs/wk, and I played club ice hockey, which at my school was pretty time consuming, practice 3 mornings/wk, games every weekend, etc.

I did exactly what I wanted to do my first year in college and it was the funnest time of my life. I probably could've spent more time volunteering in a hospital or something and less time partying, but you'll have 3 more years to do all that good stuff.

As for your major, choose something that you like. I did biomedical engineering and minored in Spanish, and it was great. I took class every spring term to graduate on time, but in my opinion that was the best time to be at school. Taking 1 or 2 classes, and not really having any other real committments left a lot of time to hang out with my friends and enjoy the nice weather. Plus med schools can't look at your application and wonder why you weren't working/volunteering/etc. because you were busy taking class trying to graduate in 4 years 😉.

College should be fun and a time to learn a lot about yourself. You should do what makes you happy and live for the moment because 4 years goes by pretty quickly. Work hard and play harder...cheesey yes, but so true.

i'd stay away from science APs, but gen ed APs can be a huge blessing. I took English, government, and history. None of the schools I applied to cared that they were AP and it got a lot of stupid reqs for my degree out of the way.

 

[redlight]

do not take the minimum course load (you may end up paying for this later). just pay attention to the workload in your first few weeks and make sure you can handle w/e you are taking. make sure you take interesting courses- it's easier to do well if you are genuinely interested in the material.

you'll want to get involved in clubs and what not off the bat- get involved with life outside class at penn and philly.


also, like some other guy said, the pre-med classes (and most intro classes in general) grade you based on your performance relative to your classmates. therefore, pay attention to your classmates. the people who do well are usually the people who work the smartest, not just the hardest. this means not being afraid to ask for advice on studying habits for class, advice on taking good notes, etc. use sites like ratemyprofessor with caution, though they may prove to be very helpful. supplement ratemyprofessor by talking to upperclassmen. some teacher are loads better than others and upperclassmen can point you in the right direction or give you advice or whatnot- (another great reason you should work on getting involved at penn and meeting loads of new people).

get into a premed society or club if you want to be aware of great programs or maximize your chances of meeting deans and such (these clubs usually go to pre-heath conferences and such). the deans remember your face and name if you leave a good impression. this may help down the line.

last bit of info is to not skip gen chem. ap chem is basically only chem I; chem II is pretty much not on the ap, though im not even sure much of the stuff covered will end up on the mcat. just take the intro so you maximize the number of med schools you can apply to (you dont want to be a senior and find out XXX school doesnt take a.p. credits) and so you have a solid foundation to prepare for the mcats. also, dont take higher level courses (like orgo) first semester unless you are sure you will do amazingly. adjusting to college life is probably harder than you think (it's definitely harder than most people think) and you want to give yourself the best chance of doing well. ---it took me a couple of weeks and the first wave of midterms and tests to get adjusted - though im still getting adjusted now, as im only a second semester freshman.--- besides, you'll be competing with mostly sophomores and they probably will have much better studying skills and will have more info on the teacher than you will coming into the course (like habits and etc.)..

good luck.

edit: lol i forgot to say that you should try not to get consumed with being premed. there are many routs to med school if that is your goal. don't be afraid to explore and try new things... i know that's cliche but it's honest advice.

 

[Esviel]

Yea but i've been thinking.....with the school i'm going to, probably most people will have taken AP Chem and will be trying to go for that easy A in gen chem. Now, I feel as if chemistry is not that difficult, but then again, so does every other freakin genius who's doing premed at penn.

If i take genchem, with a whole bunch of other people taking it trying to get an easy A, and my grade is based on how i do relative to everyone else, then won't there be a hell of a curve? like, if I take a test and say "hey, that was pretty easy, i learned this stuff in high school" and i got a 90 on the test, what if everyone else felt the the exact same way, and the average score was, like, a 95.....that would mean that I'm not getting an A, wouldn't it?

but if i took some higher lever chem course, I'd be in a class where some people were super geniuses while others weren't so super genius....and I'd be able to score pretty well in relation to my peers more easily because none of us has seen the material before (assuming that I am able to actually grasp the material).....say we take a test and I get a 75, a couple geniuses get 88's and 90's, a few more get 70-somethings, but a lot of ppl get <70.

i'm just extremely nervous at the fact that everyone there is gonna be ridiculously smart and i gotta compete with all of them...........and I'm not fully sure how grading curves work in college (in high school, the teacher just arbitrarily gives everyone, like, an extra 5 or 10 points on a test haha.)

 

[45408]

and I'm not fully sure how grading curves work in college (in high school, the teacher just arbitrarily gives everyone, like, an extra 5 or 10 points on a test haha.)

It's all up to the professor, but they almost certainly won't do what you just described. I don't know of many profs who actually use a strict bell curve that will only allow, say, 10% of the class to get an A, but they're certainly out there.

 

[Perrotfish]

The reason you shouldn't take AP credit is because some medical schools don't accept AP credit for prerequisite courses. It has nothing to do with how easy or difficult the A is.

 

[Drogba]

Yea but i've been thinking.....with the school i'm going to, probably most people will have taken AP Chem and will be trying to go for that easy A in gen chem. Now, I feel as if chemistry is not that difficult, but then again, so does every other freakin genius who's doing premed at penn.

If i take genchem, with a whole bunch of other people taking it trying to get an easy A, and my grade is based on how i do relative to everyone else, then won't there be a hell of a curve? like, if I take a test and say "hey, that was pretty easy, i learned this stuff in high school" and i got a 90 on the test, what if everyone else felt the the exact same way, and the average score was, like, a 95.....that would mean that I'm not getting an A, wouldn't it?

but if i took some higher lever chem course, I'd be in a class where some people were super geniuses while others weren't so super genius....and I'd be able to score pretty well in relation to my peers more easily because none of us has seen the material before (assuming that I am able to actually grasp the material).....say we take a test and I get a 75, a couple geniuses get 88's and 90's, a few more get 70-somethings, but a lot of ppl get <70.

i'm just extremely nervous at the fact that everyone there is gonna be ridiculously smart and i gotta compete with all of them...........and I'm not fully sure how grading curves work in college (in high school, the teacher just arbitrarily gives everyone, like, an extra 5 or 10 points on a test haha.)

That isn't going to happen. I don't know why you think the higher level classes are going to have less intelligent students. You would be taking organic chem without gen chem which unadvisable. Even at a school like penn people mess up on tests. Don't be so worried. But seriously, take gen chem.

 

[ChubbyChaser]

Yea but i've been thinking.....with the school i'm going to, probably most people will have taken AP Chem and will be trying to go for that easy A in gen chem. Now, I feel as if chemistry is not that difficult, but then again, so does every other freakin genius who's doing premed at penn.

If i take genchem, with a whole bunch of other people taking it trying to get an easy A, and my grade is based on how i do relative to everyone else, then won't there be a hell of a curve? like, if I take a test and say "hey, that was pretty easy, i learned this stuff in high school" and i got a 90 on the test, what if everyone else felt the the exact same way, and the average score was, like, a 95.....that would mean that I'm not getting an A, wouldn't it?

but if i took some higher lever chem course, I'd be in a class where some people were super geniuses while others weren't so super genius....and I'd be able to score pretty well in relation to my peers more easily because none of us has seen the material before (assuming that I am able to actually grasp the material).....say we take a test and I get a 75, a couple geniuses get 88's and 90's, a few more get 70-somethings, but a lot of ppl get <70.

i'm just extremely nervous at the fact that everyone there is gonna be ridiculously smart and i gotta compete with all of them...........and I'm not fully sure how grading curves work in college (in high school, the teacher just arbitrarily gives everyone, like, an extra 5 or 10 points on a test haha.)

Idont have first hand experience, but from what I understand a much greater percentage of studetnts at Ivy league schools make As and Bs as opposed to thse at state and small private schools. I wouldnt worry about it, dont base all your education off of, whether yu can get an A in this class or that, its nt worth it.

 

[bob123456]

Yea but i've been thinking.....with the school i'm going to, probably most people will have taken AP Chem and will be trying to go for that easy A in gen chem. Now, I feel as if chemistry is not that difficult, but then again, so does every other freakin genius who's doing premed at penn.

If i take genchem, with a whole bunch of other people taking it trying to get an easy A, and my grade is based on how i do relative to everyone else, then won't there be a hell of a curve? like, if I take a test and say "hey, that was pretty easy, i learned this stuff in high school" and i got a 90 on the test, what if everyone else felt the the exact same way, and the average score was, like, a 95.....that would mean that I'm not getting an A, wouldn't it?

but if i took some higher lever chem course, I'd be in a class where some people were super geniuses while others weren't so super genius....and I'd be able to score pretty well in relation to my peers more easily because none of us has seen the material before (assuming that I am able to actually grasp the material).....say we take a test and I get a 75, a couple geniuses get 88's and 90's, a few more get 70-somethings, but a lot of ppl get <70.

i'm just extremely nervous at the fact that everyone there is gonna be ridiculously smart and i gotta compete with all of them...........and I'm not fully sure how grading curves work in college (in high school, the teacher just arbitrarily gives everyone, like, an extra 5 or 10 points on a test haha.)

I go to Penn and I can answer some of your questions specifically. I was just like you when I got here and I got smoked my first semester (something like a 2.5 science GPA). After getting my study habits in order I was able to catch up and fix things before they got out of hand. Everyone I know studies a lot, but there's always time for non-academic stuff. The Greek scene on campus is huge, probably the biggest in the Ivies. Class curves suck, because you are competing against some of the smartest kids in the world. Most classes have the mean score set to a C+, some do it to a C. I once had a math class where a 90% turned out to be a C+, but I've had classes where 70 was too. It just depends on how well the class does. As for general chemistry, it's a rough ride. I remember on our 2nd test we had to solve the Schrodinger Wave equation and only 1 person out of 150 got it right. Being a successful premed here is very doable though and after going through Penn's courses the MCAT will be a joke (The average is a 33 here and around 24 nationally).

 

[Techmed07]

Yea but i've been thinking.....with the school i'm going to, probably most people will have taken AP Chem and will be trying to go for that easy A in gen chem. Now, I feel as if chemistry is not that difficult, but then again, so does every other freakin genius who's doing premed at penn.

If i take genchem, with a whole bunch of other people taking it trying to get an easy A, and my grade is based on how i do relative to everyone else, then won't there be a hell of a curve? like, if I take a test and say "hey, that was pretty easy, i learned this stuff in high school" and i got a 90 on the test, what if everyone else felt the the exact same way, and the average score was, like, a 95.....that would mean that I'm not getting an A, wouldn't it?

but if i took some higher lever chem course, I'd be in a class where some people were super geniuses while others weren't so super genius....and I'd be able to score pretty well in relation to my peers more easily because none of us has seen the material before (assuming that I am able to actually grasp the material).....say we take a test and I get a 75, a couple geniuses get 88's and 90's, a few more get 70-somethings, but a lot of ppl get <70.

i'm just extremely nervous at the fact that everyone there is gonna be ridiculously smart and i gotta compete with all of them...........and I'm not fully sure how grading curves work in college (in high school, the teacher just arbitrarily gives everyone, like, an extra 5 or 10 points on a test haha.)

I'm going to chime in here eventhough do not go to a school as half as competitive as yours.

GPA, I believe your first semester GPA is relatively important it gives you a gauge on how hard you have to work. An easy A in class you already could've Ap(ed) out of can give you a false sense of security for the subsequent semester. However an overload of hard sciences may put a damper on your confidence. So, Pickaprof. Forget the comments check out the grade distribution. It can be a life saver. Strive to understand the information on your prereqs forget about the grade. If you do this everything else will surely fall in place

Intelligence, I believe at the university you are attending it will not be "intelligence" the separates the As' from the Bs' but will be how efficient and hard the individual works. The sooner you forget about your accomplishments in high school the sooner you can truly tackle the challenge that is your university. Your SAT and or AP scores will seldom come up in medical school interviews and it has already by discussed in length that there is little to no correlation between SAT and the MCAT. Forget about what made you successful in high school and look at college as a new adventure that must and can be conquered.

Studying, I believe in the saying “wise men learn from the errors of others.” So before starting undergrad I picked a book on how to study by Cal Newport. It helped me some people suggest just feeling out. Most of the time during this feeling out process it costs you an A maybe even grants you a C especially if you never studied before in your life. So look into it, Search this forum ask people advice on classes before you take it might sound nerdy but it will save you some grief believe me.


Oh if you work hard you should score above the average by at least 30 points (I probably have little to no innate intelligent and I always do) especially in freshmen classes. And never depend on the curve compete against yourself and only yourself, a curve is never a sure thing.



You can do it, work hard and smart. Know your goal and go for it. You want to take 18 hours your first semester do it, but understand that difficulty that come along with that and that your GPA will be at stake but never believe it cannot be done.



This should help to:


High School

• Come back in a couple of years.

During School

• Take college grades seriously, you'll be thankful when application time comes.
• If you're asking to do something because it might look good on your application, chances are you aren't interested enough to commit to it right now.
• Go to office hours, even if you are getting an A in the class because rec letters need to come from somewhere.
• Overstudy your freshmen year in college. Better to get an A+ in all your freshmen classes then wonder if that was time well spent than screw up your freshmen grades and wonder whether you have a chance.
• Work hard to get a stellar GPA so you can count on the MCAT as additional evidence of your academic capability, rather than a stressful redeeming factor.
• Don't hesistate to take on a leadership role in your activities. The work you put into it will benefit you twofold, you will learn a lot about time management and build interpersonal skills.
• Don't think that a great MCAT will compensate for a low GPA.
• Clinical extracurricular activities show admission comittees you have been exposed to the realities of medicine and you can handle them.
• Pursue ECs you are passionate about, don't try to do a little of everything.
• Compete ONLY against yourself.
• Time is better spent pursuing a mastery of the course material rather than calculating the minimum grade you can get by with for a 90 or planning how to spread a rumour that the date for the final has been postponed (when in fact it hasn't.)
• Moderation is key. Take the time to enjoy college but keep in mind that your grades and ECs will be important in the future.
• Remember that medical schools do not want a textbook memorizing machine. What you do outside of class is just as important and what you do inside as far as growing into a well rounded, articulate prospective physician - you can't develop socially if you don't put yourself in social situations and some of the best things do talk about in interviews are interesting things you do for fun!

MCAT

• Don't take the MCAT until your full-length practice scores are exceeding your target score (generally accepted to be 30+ total, with nothing less than a 9 in any section).
• It's MCAT (Medical College Admission Test), not MCATs (Medical College Admission Tests) as there is only one test not multiple ones.
• Stop reading SDN when you're studying for the MCAT. It'll stress you out when you're inevitably reading those score report threads, and it seems like everyone's getting 36+.
• If you find yourself asking, "Should I use this book or that book?" it's a good sign that you should probably use both.

Applications

• If you're asking questions about having to "study" after completion of med school, then you shouldn't be applying to doctorville.
• Take things one-step at a time, rewarding yourself along the way as this process is a marathon, not a sprint.
• APPLY EARLY!
• MDApplicants.com should be used to see on average what kind of people get into certain schools, but it's skewed extremely upwards and don't use a single profile as a ray of hope.
• When a school offers you an interview, learn as much as you can about the school, its focus, and its history. They have shown interest in you and you must do the same.
• Look at the mission statements of each school to see if you fit what they are looking for and to answer their secondaries
• Send Transcripts in MAY even if you don't want to start working on the AMCAS application
• A good personal statement takes time to write (1+ months) if it's been thoroughly edited and you've had time to reflect on what you really want to say.

Other

• Show a little cleavage.
• Show a lot of cleavage.
• Use the search feature before asking routine questions
• Take deep breaths.
• Believe in yourself.
• Don't ask other peoples' opinions of your chances unless you're prepared for an honest answer.
• Fat drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son.
• Slow down! Taking an extra year to do things well is much better than rushing through and having to deal with the consequences later.
• Learn some humility. If you haven't been beaten down to the ground yet, you'll get used to it during this whole process.
• When deciding what kind of prep material to use, sometimes its a good idea to go to amazon.com and read the reviews before you buy your material.
• The farther you go, the more you are in the public's eye. Treat everything you do seriously, respect everyone, and be aware that people will be critiquing you more and more. But don't get paranoid.

 

[redlight]

Oh if you work hard you should score above the average by at least 30 points (I probably have little to no innate intelligent and I always do) especially in freshmen classes.

i pretty much agree with everything you said (i skimmed) except this. that may be correct at some schools, but at most i doubt this will be the case at penn. you can work your butt off and get class avg or wayyy lower. i know some people who studied like mad for gen chem last semester and earned a "C." i worked hard but not nearly as hard as they did (not even close.. i started studying 2 days in advance usually, whereas they literally started weeks in advance) and i did always did a lot better than class avg (which was curved to a "B"). it will be hard to compare my chem class to yours (and to chem classes in other schools) because the intensity of the class usually depends on the professor- which means it can be different from year to year or section to section if there is more than one gen chem lecture course.

also, as someone stated, curves depend on the teacher.. my chem 1 teacher curved our final grade (3 midterms out of a hundred each, the final was out of 200). they mostly do this to control grades, methinks. in calc I the class avgs were in the 30s and 40s because the teacher was a hard ***. again, the other calc I classes had higher averages because they had different professors. in calc II the averages are much higher so far)

again, ill iterate that your grades mostly depend on your classmates so you should make sure you work smarter than everyone.

 

[Techmed07]

i pretty much agree with everything you said (i skimmed) except this. that may be correct at some schools, but at most i doubt this will be the case at penn. you can work your butt off and get class avg or wayyy lower. i know some people who studied like mad for gen chem last semester and earned a "C." i worked hard but not nearly as hard as they did (not even close.. i started studying 2 days in advance usually, whereas they literally started weeks in advance) and i did always did a lot better than class avg (which was curved to a "B"). it will be hard to compare my chem class to yours (and to chem classes in other schools) because the intensity of the class usually depends on the professor- which means it can be different from year to year or section to section if there is more than one gen chem lecture course.

also, as someone stated, curves depend on the teacher.. my chem 1 teacher curved our final grade (3 midterms out of a hundred each, the final was out of 200). they mostly do this to control grades, methinks. in calc I the class avgs were in the 30s and 40s because the teacher was a hard ***. again, the other calc I classes had higher averages because they had different professors. in calc II the averages are much higher so far)

again, ill iterate that your grades mostly depend on your classmates so you should make sure you work smarter than everyone.

Wow, that is crazy. How do your friends study? That is really depressing for them.

*Pick a prof could've remedied the bad calc prof

 

[redlight]

Wow, that is crazy. How do your friends study? That is really depressing for them.

*Pick a prof could've remedied the bad calc prof

they read the book and did practice problems, just like most people. i never read; this teacher advised us not to read the book and to simply use it as a guide if we didn't understand lecture(he is basically the head of the chem department and he knows his stuff so he wanted us to come to class to show off! lol). the entire test was based of class notes, problems we worked out in class, etc.. sure, some lectures were harder to follow than others, but thats mostly because some material was entirely new to me (he worked in theoretical gas kinetics -what he researches at my school-in a way i wasn't familiar with) i must say that i didn't have as many problems in chem I because we covered almost all of that material in ap (jr. year, and i did not take any ap exam).

chem II is run by 2 other guys but it's my professor's first year teaching gen chem. he's mostly going straight from the book so now i read the book. the material is a lot harder to grasp than last semester (we're doing quantum mechanics of atoms and molecular bonding) but that's mostly because it's new information and i haven't been going to class😛.

 

[redlight]

The reason you shouldn't take AP credit is because some medical schools don't accept AP credit for prerequisite courses. It has nothing to do with how easy or difficult the A is.

i'll aslo add that ap doesn't cover nearly as much of the info in regular gen chem I and II courses. ap chem is basically chem I.

 

[redlight]

Being a successful premed here is very doable though and after going through Penn's courses the MCAT will be a joke (The average is a 33 here and around 24 nationally).

well i'd argue that if you got into penn you're probably well above average, in terms of reasoning skills and performance on standardized tests, to begin with. i'd agree if you said working hard at penn helps you maintain and sharpen reasoning skills, given the rigor of the institution (though the same could probably be said for practically any accredited 4-year institution as long as you work hard). i'm not so sure that i'd agree with you saying going through penn automatically = high mcat.

also, i'm pretty sure the '07 mcat mean was around 28 and the median was between a 31 and 32. a 33 mean mcat is still crazy impressive, though.
and congrats on the 36Q 👍. do you think going through penn was the main factor in getting your high score, or did you practice for weeks like everyone else, or did you do something special?

 

[Drogba]

Where you take your reqs probably has close to no bearing on how you do on your mcats. I've taken reqs at two fairly "high ranking" schools and the only thing thats gonna matter come MCAT is how much I've retained and how much I'm willing to study to relearn the stuff I forgot. Going through a place like Penn isn't going to give you an edge on the MCAT in any way in my opinion. Whats important is how you approach your reqs.

My best advice is to study for retention, aka absolutely no cramming, and then reviewing for the MCAT won't be as bad. If you can take a test and do well in it without studying at all the day before because you've been keeping up daily and you don't need that last night cram then you know you've got the class on lock. It doesn't matter where you are.

 

[anomalous738232]

the smartest of students aren't those with the highest IQ's, or highest GPA's, but are the ones that are capable of quickly adapting to change. the first qtr will probably be the most difficult b/c you will be in the process of learning and forming study habits, but provided all goes well, things become much easier.

especially with science classes- @ my school, 100 and 200 level classes are always 200+ students (my gen chem class was 750 students), so i had to rely more on self-instruction than lecture-based instruction. like everyone's been saying, the key component in doing well is being on top of everything @ all times. for myself, the idea is the 60/30/10 rule. 60% of the time i'm on top of everything, 30% of the time i try to get a few lectures ahead, and 10% of the time i procrastinate &/or choose to go to a party on a tuesday and will have to stay up all night the following evening to finish a lab last minute =]

after you've discovered what works well for YOU, i think you should have fun, and enjoy ugrad as much as you can-- make friends, meet girls/guys, get smashed every so often, stay up all night playing video games, whatever. i think the hardest part of college for pre-meds isn't necessarily college itself, but doing "normal" college kid things =]

i'm sure you'll do just fine. congrats on upenn!

 

[bob123456]

well i'd argue that if you got into penn you're probably well above average, in terms of reasoning skills and performance on standardized tests, to begin with. i'd agree if you said working hard at penn helps you maintain and sharpen reasoning skills, given the rigor of the institution (though the same could probably be said for practically any accredited 4-year institution as long as you work hard). i'm not so sure that i'd agree with you saying going through penn automatically = high mcat.

also, i'm pretty sure the '07 mcat mean was around 28 and the median was between a 31 and 32. a 33 mean mcat is still crazy impressive, though.
and congrats on the 36Q 👍. do you think going through penn was the main factor in getting your high score, or did you practice for weeks like everyone else, or did you do something special?

I'd agree that Penn students are well above average on test skills even before they get here. The school did keep me on my toes though, so that I was able to study efficiently for the MCAT without having to take a prep course. Of course, I'd agree that you could probably get that at any of the large research institutions where you have to compete against large amounts of people in your classes. Based on what I've seen from people I know elsewhere, I can't say the same for small schools where your competition is reduced and everyone likely knows the professor well enough so that A's are much easier to come by, making it unnecessary to study as much. As for Penn guaranteeing a high MCAT, you're right that that's not true. I've only met around 10 people here that have shared their score with me and I had the lowest of them all, so that means there are definitely people out there bringing the average down. When I tackled the MCAT, I did a lot of studying just like everyone else, over a couple months in the fall semester and then about 15 practice tests in the last month before I took the test in January. In regards to the national score data for 2007, the mean was 25 and the median looks like about 26 for all exam takers, so I still think Penn test takers did pretty damn well. http://www.aamc.org/students/mcat/examineedata/combined07.pdf

 

[Lokhtar]

Based on what I've seen from people I know elsewhere, I can't say the same for small schools where your competition is reduced and everyone likely knows the professor well enough so that A's are much easier to come by, making it unnecessary to study as much.

Whoa, nelly. Some of those small colleges will cut your heart and eat it too. Try maintaining a 4.0 at Swarthmore or something like that, and you'll likely come out with a big FAIL. And at the same time, some of the Ivy League is infamous for their grade inflation (Penn is not one of those schools, so I'm not putting Penn down at all. They do tend to be one of the harder graders, along with places like Berkeley).