How exactly do you answer "What is a DO?"

[Roxas]

Just so everyone knows, I fully understand what a DO is. I have just noticed that since the next app cycle is approaching (I plan on applying both MD and DO), I find myself having to explain to family and friends the difference between MD and DO. I just wanted to see exactly what people say, or if they run into many lay people who have a bias against DOs. I am never sure how much detail to go into, like explaining OMM and such, or just keeping it short and simple by saying "DOs are physicians just like MDs."

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[MedPR]

Just so everyone knows, I fully understand what a DO is. I have just noticed that since the next app cycle is approaching (I plan on applying both MD and DO), I find myself having to explain to family and friends the difference between MD and DO. I just wanted to see exactly what people say, or if they run into many lay people who have a bias against DOs. I am never sure how much detail to go into, like explaining OMM and such, or just keeping it short and simple by saying "DOs are physicians just like MDs."

There is no difference. Simple answer.

 

[Roxas]

There is no difference. Simple answer.

How then would you respond if they ask why they are awarded different degrees? (Not trolling here, I really do have people ask me this)

 

[DrWily]

One has an M, and one has an O, and both have a D.

 

[MedPR]

How then would you respond if they ask why they are awarded different degrees? (Not trolling here, I really do have people ask me this)

I wouldn't. Answering questions like that is a slippery slope.

 

[ClaytonB543]

 

[abolt18]

The doc I shadowed explained it in a very simple way. It's like an MD who received ADDITIONAL education in manipulations which is similar to (but not the same) chiropractics. While this is not 100% accurate, people don't actually care enough for you to go into detail (they'd fall asleep) so that was always what he said and people said "Oh cool" and it was over.

If someone is actually inquisitive and wants to know more, then you can expound on OMM but realistically that's the only difference so how much can you say about OMM?

 

[Life Sucks]

DO =DOCTOR
MD= Medical Drug Dealer.
Jk ;p

 

[MedPR]

I tell my relatives that a DO is exactly like an MD, except DOs have special training in osteopathic manipulative medicine (and I usually end up explaining what that is) and they treat the patient as a whole entity rather than treating the symptoms that most MD's are trained to do. DO's look at lifestyle and habits because, in the end, everything is connected. A little advanced training and a different way of looking at things.

No MD is trained to treat the symptoms. If they were, antibiotics wouldn't exist. Having people like you explain that a DO is an MD+ makes me sad.

 

[Roxas]

There is no difference. Simple answer.

MedPR I have to admit, I'm glad that you haven't let your hate for drbumblebee evolve into a hate against all DOs lol. I saw read that whole thing on the derm thread and thought it was pretty entertaining

 

[pattr]

Just so everyone knows, I fully understand what a DO is. I have just noticed that since the next app cycle is approaching (I plan on applying both MD and DO), I find myself having to explain to family and friends the difference between MD and DO. I just wanted to see exactly what people say, or if they run into many lay people who have a bias against DOs. I am never sure how much detail to go into, like explaining OMM and such, or just keeping it short and simple by saying "DOs are physicians just like MDs."

"a different kind of medical doctor."

simple as that.

 

[MedPR]

MedPR I have to admit, I'm glad that you haven't let your hate for drbumblebee evolve into a hate against all DOs lol. I saw read that whole thing on the derm thread and thought it was pretty entertaining

Well it's like I said before, if top ACGME residency program PDs didn't hate on DOs so much I wouldn't be opposed to going to a DO school.

 

[DrWily]

they treat the patient as a whole entity rather than treating the symptoms that most MD's are trained to do. DO's look at lifestyle and habits because, in the end, everything is connected.

This is called being a good physician. It's not something special to D.Os. That's all AOA propaganda BS which makes DOs sound more special than they really are. MD=DO=MD in every way.

OMM is taught in a specialist POV and it correlates very little with actual real daily medical practice unless you do plan on going into an OMM/NMM/Sports Medicine specialty. I have no doubt that it works and I enjoy using some of the techniques that I've learned on spouse/family. But generalizations that DOs are MD+ or that every DO brings something special to the table more than our MD counterparts is wrong.

 

[Ost3oclast]

I just tell people I'm going to medical school. If they ask where, I tell them. I never bother going so in depth that I ever even mention DO.

 

[DrWily]

I just tell people I'm going to medical school. If they ask where, I tell them. I never bother going so in depth that I ever even mention DO.

I say medical school, they say where, I say arizona, they say Oh, U of A? When I say Midwestern Univ, they kinda look at me like "da fuq?" but they never ask more

 

[gatorfann14]

This is called being a good physician. It's not something special to D.Os. That's all AOA propaganda BS which makes DOs sound more special than they really are. MD=DO=MD in every way.

OMM is taught in a specialist POV and it correlates very little with actual real daily medical practice unless you do plan on going into an OMM/NMM/Sports Medicine specialty. I have no doubt that it works and I enjoy using some of the techniques that I've learned on spouse/family. But generalizations that DOs are MD+ or that every DO brings something special to the table more than our MD counterparts is wrong.

This ^

The "difference" that most Premeds/idealistic med students/AOA isn't the difference between a DO and MD it is the difference between a terrible doctor and good doctor. All good doctors treat their patients as people and in a holistic fashion, the crappy ones don't.

 

[CopToEM]

This is the most appropriate answer and, despite the shenanigans above, what I think you're really looking for.

A DO has the same exact training as an MD in the basic and clinical sciences. However, DOs receive several hundred additional hours of training in diagnosis and treatment of skeletal and muscular disorders of the body.

Fin.

 

[DrWily]

This is the most appropriate answer and, despite the shenanigans above, what I think you're really looking for.

A DO has the same exact training as an MD in the basic and clinical sciences. However, DOs receive several hundred additional hours of training in diagnosis and treatment of skeletal and muscular disorders of the body.

Fin.

Several hundred is a bit of a stretch. I'd say a couple hundred (200 to be exact ). You should also include the fact about losing out on 200 hours of other basic sciences to make room for the OMM.

 

[MedPR]

This is the most appropriate answer and, despite the shenanigans above, what I think you're really looking for.

A DO has the same exact training as an MD in the basic and clinical sciences. However, DOs receive several hundred additional hours of training in diagnosis and treatment of skeletal and muscular disorders of the body.

Fin.

Fair enough. We should also point out that DOs receive "several hundred" less hours of training in relevant basic medical sciences.

If you're ever in a position to define the differences between DO and MD and you find yourself starting to say "Well, DOs are MDs plus" you need to stop and instead say "I'm not really sure".

 

[Mr Kenobi]

Well it's like I said before, if top ACGME residency program PDs didn't hate on DOs so much I wouldn't be opposed to going to a DO school.

Since you asked in the other thread...this is how you've changed. You seemed like you really wanted to get into a couple DO schools that you ended up not getting accepted to earlier in the cycle (I specifically remember KCOM). Now you make comments about how you are opposed to attending a DO school

Several hundred is a bit of a stretch. I'd say a couple hundred (200 to be exact ). You should also include the fact about losing out on 200 hours of other basic sciences to make room for the OMM.

Having visited a few schools now and seeing the different curricula, it looked like the amount of OMM you receive is dependent on the program you attend.

 

[MedPR]

Since you asked in the other thread...this is how you've changed. You seemed like you really wanted to get into a couple DO schools that you ended up not getting accepted to earlier in the cycle (I specifically remember KCOM). Now you make comments about how you are opposed to attending a DO school

I've always said that the downside to DO is bias on the part of some ACGME PDs. When I thought DO was my only option I was of course excited to go to DO school as it was my opportunity to become a physician. When a less difficult (in terms of residency/fellowship) option became available I grew less enthusiastic about attending DO schools. So yes, I changed as new opportunities became available. I have not, however, become anti-DO or anything of that sort.

 

[MedPR]

The real difference between DO and MD is this.

Long long ago, a guy decided that the medical status quo sucked. He started his own type of medicine that became known as osteopathy. Over the years it developed into medicine as we know it now. For reasons unknown, there are now two types of medical schools that teach the exact same western medicine yet award two different degrees.

 

[DrWily]

Having visited a few schools now and seeing the different curricula, it looked like the amount of OMM you receive is dependent on the program you attend.

I feel confident in saying that 200 or around there would be the average. 200 =/= several hundred

 

[Mr Kenobi]

I've always said that the downside to DO is bias on the part of some ACGME PDs. When I thought DO was my only option I was of course excited to go to DO school as it was my opportunity to become a physician. When a less difficult (in terms of residency/fellowship) option became available I grew less enthusiastic about attending DO schools. So yes, I changed as new opportunities became available. I have not, however, become anti-DO or anything of that sort.

I never said you became anti-DO...but you have to admit that you are usually one of the first to point out all things negative about going DO and how you are now apparently opposed to attending DO schools.

 

[MedPR]

I never said you became anti-DO...but you have to admit that you are usually one of the first to point out all things negative about going DO and how you are now apparently opposed to attending DO schools.

I'm one of the first to point out anything on SDN because I spend so much time on these forums.

I'm opposed to attending DO schools in the same way I'm opposed to working more hours for less pay. I have an opportunity to have less obstacles and there is no reason for me to welcome those obstacles into my life again.

 

[Mr Kenobi]

I feel confident in saying that 200 or around there would be the average. 200 =/= several hundred

Cool. I don't know exact numbers at all, be it 200hrs or 700hrs...I was just pointing out that it seems to vary by institution.

 

[dsoz]

Just like in Dentistry where there is a DMD and a DDS. Both are Dentists. Both can drill and fill teeth.

DO and MD can both treat the ENTIRE human body. Both can cut open the ENTIRE human body.

I am open minded to some alternative medicines (homeopathy is one exception!) I don't think that modern westernized medicine should have a monopoly on health care. I do know that when I was having problems with low grade stress headaches that when I went to the chiropractor a few times that the muscles loosened up and I stopped having the headaches. Further, I think that we could learn a lot from primitive aboriginal medicine practices to look for sources of new drugs. But through the miracles of modern chemistry we can also adapt some of those natural products to better suit our needs (like the salicylic acid to aspirin story, or the discovery of penicillin).

OMM does have a place in modern medicine, and I would have been excited to learn about it. However, I was accepted to a school where I do not have to move out of the house that I own. My spouse can still work the same job that pays the mortgage and provides health insurance. And the tuition is at least 10k less than the other two schools where I was accepted and would need to move. The close school also happens to be an MD school and the other two are DO schools. Finances are driving the majority of my decision, not the name of the degree or the letters that will follow my name.

dsoz

 

[CopToEM]

Fair enough. We should also point out that DOs receive "several hundred" less hours of training in relevant basic medical sciences.

If you're ever in a position to define the differences between DO and MD and you find yourself starting to say "Well, DOs are MDs plus" you need to stop and instead say "I'm not really sure".

I'll be honest - if you compare similar DO schools to similar MD schools I don't think this tends to be the case. I know an awful lot of MD students from my undergrad who just have more afternoons off and time built into their curriculums for other life-enriching activities. I.E. some are at schools which have sabbatical weeks where they go home and shadow physicians.

Hell, UVA Med School basically has a 3-semester basic science curriculum. They finish in December of their second year, have January-March off to study for USMLE, and start rotations in March. Do you posit that they have 200 additional hours crammed in there of basic sciences? Not likely. I'm not disputing that MD students get more basic medical science training - I'm disputing that they get an additional 200 hours. If you compare PCOM to UCSF... sure. Might be a fair statement, who knows.

And, yes, there are a minimum of 200 hours of instruction required to AOA. It feels to me like DCOM goes beyond that but I don't know for sure. Also, those hours I sit here at this desk or go to the lab after hours to study OMM count for something.

Lastly, the OP asked how to explain DO to his family and friends, basically. Do you suggest a better way? They likely don't even know what allopathic means.

Do you have anything beneficial to add to this conversation or are you just here to be an ass?

 

[CopToEM]

Finances are driving the majority of my decision, not the name of the degree or the letters that will follow my name.

This continues to be a more and more common theme for pre-meds today. No one really cares anymore - certainly not the greater medical community. Proximity to home, tuition, clinical opportunity, etc. mean far more than the letters after your name at the end. No question.

People always seem to turn a legitimate question on this forum into an MD vs DO debate. It's ignorance such as this that breeds these threads. If people would just answer the question succinctly instead of turning it into a pissing match the interweb would be a better place for it.

 

[Ost3oclast]

Our weekly MD vs DO, oh look its only Monday......

 

[Mr Kenobi]

Our weekly MD vs DO, oh look its only Monday......

Haha. Seemingly a trend that MedPR has had a heavy hand in recently. On that note...

Having people like you explain that a DO is an MD+ makes me sad.

Come on man. They didn't say MD+, they are just uneducated and regurgitation things they have heard...Pretty common from pre-meds on both ends of the spectrum. Having people explain it as DOs are people that couldn't get into a MD school makes me sad...But people say that all the time too. Honestly man, I have a difficult time imagining that it is not the first thing you would say if someone were to ask you about it (IRL)...presently at least, not 7 months ago.

I'm not trying to pick on you bro, but I guess that your "opposed to DO school" comment rustled my Jedi jimmies... especially since I know you were gunning for DO schools that you were in fact rejected from just a few short months ago.

 

[NeuroLAX]

Well it's like I said before, if top ACGME residency program PDs didn't hate on DOs so much I wouldn't be opposed to going to a DO school.

Who gives a crap what they think. You don't need a top ACGME residency. End of story.

 

[MedPR]

Do you have anything beneficial to add to this conversation or are you just here to be an ass?

You must've missed my other posts in this thread.

I'm glad you're mature enough not to resort to name calling.

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[MedPR]

Haha. Seemingly a trend that MedPR has had a heavy hand in recently. On that note...



Come on man. They didn't say MD+, they are just uneducated and regurgitation things they have heard...Pretty common from pre-meds on both ends of the spectrum. Having people explain it as DOs are people that couldn't get into a MD school makes me sad...But people say that all the time too. Honestly man, I have a difficult time imagining that it is not the first thing you would say if someone were to ask you about it (IRL)...presently at least, not 7 months ago.

I'm not trying to pick on you bro, but I guess that your "opposed to DO school" comment rustled my Jedi jimmies... especially since I know you were gunning for DO schools that you were in fact rejected from just a few short months ago.

I haven't created any MD vs DO threads.

I was only rejected from CCOM and western. II or accepted from the other top schools I applied to. Not sure what you're talking about.

Edit: as far as DO vs MD in real life I would tell people that in practice the are the same.

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[Ost3oclast]

I say medical school, they say where, I say arizona, they say Oh, U of A? When I say Midwestern Univ, they kinda look at me like "da fuq?" but they never ask more

Dude me too! I just say its a private school and move on. People think the U of A is the only med school in AZ. Lol most people just hear "medical school" and dont really care anyway. There are those rare few that keep asking Q's.

 

[GypsyHummus]

OMM is the weapon of an osteopathic physician. Not as clumsy or random as a scalpel. A more elegant weapon for a more civilized age.

 

[MedPR]

Who gives a crap what they think. You don't need a top ACGME residency. End of story.

I care what the people who may decide my future think. Sure nobody needs a top residency, but as premeds we don't know if we'll want it. Chances are slim for any MD to go to a top residency but they're even slimmer for DO and that's all there is to it.

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[Ost3oclast]

Haha. Seemingly a trend that MedPR has had a heavy hand in recently. On that note...



Come on man. They didn't say MD+, they are just uneducated and regurgitation things they have heard...Pretty common from pre-meds on both ends of the spectrum. Having people explain it as DOs are people that couldn't get into a MD school makes me sad...But people say that all the time too. Honestly man, I have a difficult time imagining that it is not the first thing you would say if someone were to ask you about it (IRL)...presently at least, not 7 months ago.

I'm not trying to pick on you bro, but I guess that your "opposed to DO school" comment rustled my Jedi jimmies... especially since I know you were gunning for DO schools that you were in fact rejected from just a few short months ago.

Jedi's have jimmies!?!? Gtfo!!!

 

[mikerowesvoice]

OMM is the weapon of an osteopathic physician. Not as clumsy or random as a scalpel. A more elegant weapon for a more civilized age.

For over a thousand generations the DO knights were guardians of OMM and holistic medicine... Before the Dark Times... Before the Caribbean

 

[pinkstarr]

MedPR not accepted to MD schools= "DO is awesome"
MedPR with options = "well..MD is just better than DO"
Human nature, we tend to get a little cocky with "better" opportunities...no need to blame this guy here...he's not the only one.

 

[SLC]

Fair enough. We should also point out that DOs receive "several hundred" less hours of training in relevant basic medical sciences.

This is patently false. DO academic years are longer than MD in almost all instances, and we have more 9-5 days on average. My OMS1 went 9-5 most days from August to June. OMSII for me began in August and goes till May.

If you're ever in a position to define the differences between DO and MD and you find yourself starting to say "Well, DOs are MDs plus" you need to stop and instead say "I'm not really sure".

Thanks for the tip, you'll understand if I don't utilize it, right?

 

[Mr Kenobi]

I haven't created any MD vs DO threads.

I was only rejected from CCOM and western. II or accepted from the other top schools I applied to. Not sure what you're talking about.

Edit: as far as DO vs MD in real life I would tell people that in practice the are the same.

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KCOM...you know...your top choice.

Congrats! I've been "Application in process" for some time now. KCOM is one of my top choices too. MO resident.

Rejection letter in the mail. No status update or email.. I wonder how long this has been sitting in my box, I haven't checked it since last week Thursday.

Nothing like a rejection letter to bring you down from an interview invite on the same day.

Good luck everyone!

Jedi's have jimmies!?!? Gtfo!!!

the jimmies are strong with this one.

OMM is the weapon of an osteopathic physician. Not as clumsy or random as a scalpel. A more elegant weapon for a more civilized age.

For over a thousand generations the DO knights were guardians of OMM and holistic medicine... Before the Dark Times... Before the Caribbean

 

[NeuroLAX]

I care what the people who may decide my future think. Sure nobody needs a top residency, but as premeds we don't know if we'll want it. Chances are slim for any MD to go to a top residency but they're even slimmer for DO and that's all there is to it.

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If chances are slim either way then you shouldn't lose sleep over one being a little more slim.

 

[MedPR]

MedPR not accepted to MD schools= "DO is awesome"
MedPR with options = "well..MD is just better than DO"
Human nature, we tend to get a little cocky with "better" opportunities...no need to blame this guy here...he's not the only one.

Go back and read my old posts. I was accepted to MD school the first week of December. I've never said MD is better, I've said DO has more obstacles and I've been saying that since before December.

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[MedPR]

If chances are slim either way then you shouldn't lose sleep over one being a little more slim.

I wouldn't lose sleep over it. If I offered you $1000 cash or $900 cash and told you to buy a car with it which would you take?


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[MedPR]

This is patently false. DO academic years are longer than MD in almost all instances, and we have more 9-5 days on average. My OMS1 went 9-5 most days from August to June. OMSII for me began in August and goes till May.




Thanks for the tip, you'll understand if I don't utilize it, right?

Almost all instances? You've looked up that many academic calendars?

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[Mr Kenobi]

MedPR not accepted to MD schools= "DO is awesome"
MedPR with options = "well..MD is just better than DO"
Human nature, we tend to get a little cocky with "better" opportunities...no need to blame this guy here...he's not the only one.

He's not the only one, but he is the most persistent one. Its human nature to make your situation sound the best you can as well. But MedPR doesn't like when people do that by way of DOs generally have the same curriculum as MDs plus some extra content. Nothing like some good old SDN hypocrisy.

Edit: just saw he didn't approve of your post (the only one defending him) either. Shocker.

 

[GypsyHummus]

I wouldn't lose sleep over it. If I offered you $1000 cash or $900 cash and told you to buy a car with it which would you take?


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I'd say buy the cheaper car. Honestly tuition at DO school, with the exception of lecom is just ridiculous. Md private schools are less than most DO schools.

 

[MedPR]

KCOM...you know...your top choice.








the jimmies are strong with this one.

I was rejected then offered an ii at KCOM. You must not have seen that part. There was a problem with my AACOMAS and when it was fixed my application was reconsidered.

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[MedPR]

He's not the only one, but he is the most persistent one. Its human nature to make your situation sound the best you can as well. But MedPR doesn't like when people do that by way of DOs generally have the same curriculum as MDs plus some extra content. Nothing like some good old SDN hypocrisy.

My understanding has always been that OMM is taught at the expense of some minutiae. If that's wrong, then it's wrong. I've just seen nothing that indicates otherwise.

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