How exactly do you answer "What is a DO?"

[MedPR]

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To be fair, you did say DO student miss out on "relevant" medical sciences in place of OMM in this thread in response to CopToEM's post.





We can just post bad memes the entire time to honor his memory. Just talking about it is tearing me up...from laughing.

I did say that. Did I really not specifically mention minutiae anywhere? I thought it, I guess I just didn't type it.

 

[DrWily]

I didn't know there were so many OMM techniques. I like working with my hands as much as the next guy, but if you have 41 techniques to memorize by this point in MS1 I don't think I would do very well in OMM class.

To be fair, a lot of them are very simple. I mean, soft-tissue techniques are no brainers, as well as most muscle energy (isometric contraction against an opposing force). Counter-strain you could probably do in your sleep as long as you understand the underlying principles. It's mostly just positioning the patient correctly for a given dysfunction that requires the memorization. HVLA is the hardest to get right because you don't wanna be twerking someone's bones incorrectly.

 

[racerwad]

This all makes sense, thanks. While on this topic, I'm very curious why board scores vary so much from school to school (not talking about MD vs DO when it comes to USMLE).

I didn't know there were so many OMM techniques. I like working with my hands as much as the next guy, but if you have 41 techniques to memorize by this point in MS1 I don't think I would do very well in OMM class.

Dude, there is a small phonebook of techniques we have to memorize. 👎

Anyhow, I am also curious about the variation between board scores (not passing rates). Honestly, I think it comes down to the student population. I'm afraid to get more specific without being called a self-hating wannabe MD student. FWIW, I am proud of the degree I'm working hard to earn but lets be serious, the whole DO education system is not as well organized or regulated as the MD one.

 

[NeuroLAX]

I didn't know there were so many OMM techniques. I like working with my hands as much as the next guy, but if you have 41 techniques to memorize by this point in MS1 I don't think I would do very well in OMM class.

None of it is difficult to memorize or execute. It's like anything else in medical school, high volume of information.

 

[TriagePreMed]

I usually tell people "To become a physician you can get an MD or DO degree. The distinction is a historical one rather than a practical one since we learn the exact same things nowadays except DOs learn a bit of manipulation on top which is similar to what physical therapists do." And if they ask "why haven't I heard of them?" I say, "well, in the past most DO schools were very few, in rural areas and mainly primary care. Today 1 in 5 students are in a DO program."

 

[Ravizzle]

In general, I would try to stay away from saying "Chiropractic" anywhere near OMM. It's really not. HVLA is such a minor (but important) tool in the toolbox. I've learned so much more soft-tissue technique, muscle energy, counterstrain, etc etc than I have HVLA. Not many people like to tolerate HVLA when they can get a nice "massage" instead. Everyone has their different techniques they like, but my go-to is muscle energy. I always see near immediate results with that one. Mostly with HVLA it's like "did it pop? do you feel better?" "no" "oh.. okay.jpg"

I'm only MS-1 so maybe there's more HVLA ahead, who knows.

Yeah I know I should avoid equating OMM to chiropractic, but it's the easiest and quickest way to explain. Most ppl know what a chiropractor does, most haven't heard of OMM.

Also, interestingly chiropractic may have been inspired by osteopathy. There are claims that the founder of chiropractic visited A T Still.

Sent from my Galaxy S2

 

[DrWily]

A.T. Still "Lightning Bonesetter"

 

[NeuroLAX]

Yeah I know I should avoid equating OMM to chiropractic, but it's the easiest and quickest way to explain. Most ppl know what a chiropractor does, most haven't heard of OMM.

Also, interestingly chiropractic may have been inspired by osteopathy. There are claims that the founder of chiropractic visited A T Still.

Sent from my Galaxy S2

It most likely was, given DD Palmer was a student at AT Still's American College of Osteopathy.

 

[Ravizzle]

I usually tell people "To become a physician you can get an MD or DO degree. The distinction is a historical one rather than a practical one since we learn the exact same things nowadays except DOs learn a bit of manipulation on top which is similar to what physical therapists do." And if they ask "why haven't I heard of them?" I say, "well, in the past most DO schools were very few, in rural areas and mainly primary care. Today 1 in 5 students are in a DO program."

👍 I like this explanation.

Also I mention more DOs are in the Midwest. Not very many in California, especially since long time ago the state retroactively converted the DOs to MDs.

Sent from my Galaxy S2

 

[Ravizzle]

It most likely was, given DD Palmer was a student at AT Still's American College of Osteopathy.

But of course that has been refuted by the chiropractic side.

Have many of y'all read "the D.Os" By Norman Gevitz? I learned most of what I know about D.O from that book. I think he also wrote a book about chiropractic.

Sent from my Galaxy S2

 

[abolt18]

There is no difference. Simple answer.

Since everyone is using MedPR as a punching bag, I thought I'd remind you all of his very first comment on this thread...

 

[racerwad]

Since everyone is using MedPR as a punching bag, I thought I'd remind you all of his very first comment on this thread...

And basically the most accurate in this thread.

 

[DrWily]

But of course that has been refuted by the chiropractic side.

Have many of y'all read "the D.Os" By Norman Gevitz? I learned most of what I know about D.O from that book. I think he also wrote a book about chiropractic.

Sent from my Galaxy S2

I started to read it but I got bored. It was very dry to me. However, a fellow D.O. hopeful on the interview trail recommended "The difference a D.O. makes" and that was pretty straight forward, to the point, highlighted all the important historical events and was very easy to read.

 

[abolt18]

I usually tell people "To become a physician you can get an MD or DO degree. The distinction is a historical one rather than a practical one since we learn the exact same things nowadays except DOs learn a bit of manipulation on top which is similar to what physical therapists do." And if they ask "why haven't I heard of them?" I say, "well, in the past most DO schools were very few, in rural areas and mainly primary care. Today 1 in 5 students are in a DO program."

Well worded +1

And about the chiropractic thing, I'd only say it doesn't matter what you say because people ask what the difference, but they don't really care to know more than the fact that you do stuff with your hands. Those that DO want to know more, will inquire further.

 

[NeuroLAX]

I started to read it but I got bored. It was very dry to me. However, a fellow D.O. hopeful on the interview trail recommended "The difference a D.O. makes" and that was pretty straight forward, to the point, highlighted all the important historical events and was very easy to read.

I recently ordered a copy of "The Difference a D.O. Makes" but haven't had the time to read it yet. Maybe in my 4 weeks of summer vacation. I'm sure you can find the time yourself with that 3.25 months.

 

[DrWily]

I recently ordered a copy of "The Difference a D.O. Makes" but haven't had the time to read it yet. Maybe in my 4 weeks of summer vacation. I'm sure you can find the time yourself with that 3.25 months.

You sound a little bit jelly bro

 

[Ravizzle]

I started to read it but I got bored. It was very dry to me. However, a fellow D.O. hopeful on the interview trail recommended "The difference a D.O. makes" and that was pretty straight forward, to the point, highlighted all the important historical events and was very easy to read.

I will probably check that out. I have 5 more months before school starts so been getting in a lot of leisure reading.

Sent from my Galaxy S2

 

[NeuroLAX]

You sound a little bit jelly bro

Just a tad

 

[Mr Kenobi]

Since everyone is using MedPR as a punching bag, I thought I'd remind you all of his very first comment on this thread...

He shoulda stopped there I suppose. Anyhow, it seems the beating has subsided...for now! Muahaha.

 

[Roxas]

I would like to point out that I absolutely did NOT want this to turn into an MD vs DO thread, even though its been derailed as such. I just wanted to hear what everyone tells those who have no clue what a DO is (or those who think that DO is an optometrist, or a naturopath or something)

 

[Lys Ile Glu Leu]

I would like to point out that I absolutely did NOT want this to turn into an MD vs DO thread, even though its been derailed as such. I just wanted to hear what everyone tells those who have no clue what a DO is (or those who think that DO is an optometrist, or a naturopath or something)

Me - basically the same thing.

Followup - why the different degree?

My reply - mostly just historical but DO maintains some additional training in hands on treatments.

I don't know why, but today seems like it's gonna be a great daaaaaaaayyyy...

 

[DrWily]

I would like to point out that I absolutely did NOT want this to turn into an MD vs DO thread, even though its been derailed as such. I just wanted to hear what everyone tells those who have no clue what a DO is (or those who think that DO is an optometrist, or a naturopath or something)

It's unavoidable.

 

[as1212559]

It's unavoidable.

This. OP you posted in pre-osteo, it's going to be an MD vs DO thread.

 

[EmergDoc2B]

I would roll with something like this:

 

[dudeliness]

In general, I would try to stay away from saying "Chiropractic" anywhere near OMM. It's really not. HVLA is such a minor (but important) tool in the toolbox. I've learned so much more soft-tissue technique, muscle energy, counterstrain, etc etc than I have HVLA. Not many people like to tolerate HVLA when they can get a nice "massage" instead. Everyone has their different techniques they like, but my go-to is muscle energy. I always see near immediate results with that one. Mostly with HVLA it's like "did it pop? do you feel better?" "no" "oh.. okay.jpg"

I'm only MS-1 so maybe there's more HVLA ahead, who knows.

So it sounds here like you are saying that all chiropractic does is HVLA-type techniques. There are many other types of techniques taught and used by chiropractors. My source is that my dad is a chiropractor who rarely uses HVLA-type stuff.

It's really an insignificant point but I needed to comment on something in this thread so that it shows up on my phone when more people post in it. It's been an entertaining read thus far.

 

[coolingglasses]

I recently ordered a copy of "The Difference a D.O. Makes" but haven't had the time to read it yet. Maybe in my 4 weeks of summer vacation. I'm sure you can find the time yourself with that 3.25 months.

The DO I shadowed recommended this.

**** was expensive on Amazon though, I never wound up getting it. Then again, I needed no convincing on DO at that point.

To answer the main question, I give an abridged version of the many MD/DO threads we've had. Same practice rights, brief history, hurdles to residency, OMM, until they get that glazed look in their eyes.

I did have one friend suggest that he'd want a major procedure done by an MD and not a DO, which got my goose. But, I dunno, he's a film student and had no idea what a DO was. Can't expect everyone to get it.

 

[Mr Kenobi]

Lay person: What is a DO?

Kenobi: Dafuq?

Lay person: Aren't you going to school to be a DO?

Kenobi: yep

Lay person: well...?

Kenobi:

 

[Robin des Bois]

Yeah I know I should avoid equating OMM to chiropractic, but it's the easiest and quickest way to explain. Most ppl know what a chiropractor does, most haven't heard of OMM.

Also, interestingly chiropractic may have been inspired by osteopathy. There are claims that the founder of chiropractic visited A T Still.

Sent from my Galaxy S2

Also, chiropractic is an unscientific cult, USDO embraced science long time ago.

 

[Mr Kenobi]

Also, chiropractic is an unscientific cult, USDO embraced science long time ago.

Here's an idear; why don't we have a séance and raise AT Still from the grave to solve this issue...since we like reviving things that are dead...like this thread was.

 

[DrEnderW]

Robin de Bois, no need to bump a 3 month old thread - especially one like this.

You made your chiropractor point in other threads today.

 

[GypsyHummus]

Here's an idear; why don't we have a séance and raise AT Still from the grave to solve this issue...since we like reviving things that are dead...like this thread was.

Better to bump than to start anew

 

[Mr Kenobi]

Better to bump than to start anew

Not in this case it wasn't

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