How good is the PA program at ASHS?

[Junkie_Smith]

In the Phoenix area, there are two major PA schools- the one at Midwestern University-Glendale, and another at Arizona School of Health Sciences (ASHS) in Mesa. Any idea how good the PA program is at ASHS? Do their graduates get good quality training to get quality jobs in any specialty anywhere? I've heard that Midwestern is better...

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[mx_599]

In the Phoenix area, there are two major PA schools- the one at Midwestern University-Glendale, and another at Arizona School of Health Sciences (ASHS) in Mesa. Any idea how good the PA program is at ASHS? Do their graduates get good quality training to get quality jobs in any specialty anywhere? I've heard that Midwestern is better...

I worked with two recent graduates of ASHS in a cardiology clinic in mesa, az

 

[Junkie_Smith]

I worked with two recent graduates of ASHS in a cardiology clinic in mesa, az

Well, that's great, but how were they? Do you believe they have good training?

 

[mx_599]

Well, that's great, but how were they? Do you believe they have good training?

I think so. they were thrown into a specialty right of out of school so of course they were learning. At the open house at that school they made it sound like they received about 800 apps for 60 spots, so I would think most accepted into program are pretty good. I was only a tech, so I was not in any postion to really see if they were messing anything up. Don't forget this was cardiology... there were tons they were learning. Also, remember that this school is a branch of ATSU/KCOM, over 100 yrs old. I think this would add some assurance to the program. There will also be a DO campus there in a couple years as well as some new hospitals adjacent to the campus. I think it is and will be a great place to get a PA degree from. I didn't see any problems with these graduates

Sorry I couldn't give you a more concrete anwser to your question on their competancies. It was both of their first jobs at cardiology. they were still learning

I have been to midwestern too. I doubt it is a better school for PAs. They both seem fine.

 

[Carolina Girl]

For the incoming class, there were 750+ applications, 150+ inverviews, and 65 students accepted. Their average science GPA is 3.2, their average overall GPA is 3.58, and average number of hours of direct pt care is 5847. It is fairly competitive.

It's a younger program than Midwestern, and younger programs tend to have more 'growing pains'. Over the last 2 years there has been a lot of turnover in admin & faculty, but I believe that is over now. Faculty who have survived the change-over say that the changes were needed for the growth of the program. They also say that the program has noticeably improved each year, but that its quality will substantially improve with the new staff. The new dean is a PA-C and is very supportive of the new program director's initiatives for improvement. His changes so far include expanding the clinical skills instruction, creating more clinical opportunities for students (EMS ride-alongs, ED shadowing, doing full H&Ps at the VA, etc) and instituting the PACRAT.

The weakest part of the program is anatomy, by far. However, the new PD is bringing in a surgeon to teach it, and is restructuring the entire didactic year so that relevant anatomy will be taught with the corresponding clinical medicine courses. Radiology, assessment, pathology, surgical procedures and pharm will be taught in parallel as well. If the PD can just get cadaver dissection as part of the class, it will be an excellent education. This will probably happen in the future since KCOM is creating a DO program on campus.

Other things I would change would be to add more faculty to the assessment labs and bring in some support for students who are not doing well academically.

The instructors are, for the most part, outstanding. Currently, all instructors have been in their fields for at least 3 years; some have 20-30 years of experience. All of them are enthiusiastic about teaching; most are pretty open & available to the students, though some more than others. There are PA-Cs, MDs and DOs for most classes.

There are a lot of preceptors for each rotation, and a lot of variety in what is available for students. Currently, they also let you set up your own rotations with new preceptors as well. There have been opportunities for international rotations in the past, but the political climate of the countries they went to is changing such that they had to cancel the school-sponsored international rotations. I know of two students who set up their own - one is going to the Himalayas and one to Africa.

The first-time PANCE pass rate for ASHS is usually within 1-2% of the national average. The new PD has set a goal of 100% for the current first-years. They have a past record of 100% job placement.

Any specific questions?

 

[Junkie_Smith]

For the incoming class, there were 750+ applications, 150+ inverviews, and 65 students accepted. Their average science GPA is 3.2, their average overall GPA is 3.58, and average number of hours of direct pt care is 5847. It is fairly competitive.

It's a younger program than Midwestern, and younger programs tend to have more 'growing pains'. Over the last 2 years there has been a lot of turnover in admin & faculty, but I believe that is over now. Faculty who have survived the change-over say that the changes were needed for the growth of the program. They also say that the program has noticeably improved each year, but that its quality will substantially improve with the new staff. The new dean is a PA-C and is very supportive of the new program director's initiatives for improvement. His changes so far include expanding the clinical skills instruction, creating more clinical opportunities for students (EMS ride-alongs, ED shadowing, doing full H&Ps at the VA, etc) and instituting the PACRAT.

The weakest part of the program is anatomy, by far. However, the new PD is bringing in a surgeon to teach it, and is restructuring the entire didactic year so that relevant anatomy will be taught with the corresponding clinical medicine courses. Radiology, assessment, pathology, surgical procedures and pharm will be taught in parallel as well. If the PD can just get cadaver dissection as part of the class, it will be an excellent education. This will probably happen in the future since KCOM is creating a DO program on campus.

Other things I would change would be to add more faculty to the assessment labs and bring in some support for students who are not doing well academically.

The instructors are, for the most part, outstanding. Currently, all instructors have been in their fields for at least 3 years; some have 20-30 years of experience. All of them are enthiusiastic about teaching; most are pretty open & available to the students, though some more than others. There are PA-Cs, MDs and DOs for most classes.

There are a lot of preceptors for each rotation, and a lot of variety in what is available for students. Currently, they also let you set up your own rotations with new preceptors as well. There have been opportunities for international rotations in the past, but the political climate of the countries they went to is changing such that they had to cancel the school-sponsored international rotations. I know of two students who set up their own - one is going to the Himalayas and one to Africa.

The first-time PANCE pass rate for ASHS is usually within 1-2% of the national average. The new PD has set a goal of 100% for the current first-years. They have a past record of 100% job placement.

Any specific questions?

Thanks for taking the time to write your answer. Are you yourself a graduate of ASHS? If you are, what made you consider ASHS over Midwestern?

 

[Carolina Girl]

I am a first-year at ASHS (well, at least I am for a few more weeks ). I am the first-year rep on the ad com steering committee; that's where the numbers came from.

ASHS stood out for me from the beginning because of its emphasis on the community atmosphere. I went to a 'name' for undergrad, but now as an older student I'd rather have a place where I will be happy for two years. After all, I am paying >40k to spend an enormous amount of time with these people; that's too much to pay to be in an uncomfortable environment.

Whether or not anyone will be a good PA is in their own control, not any schools' hands. The school gives you a foundation of knowledge; it is up to you to apply it and to expand it. I picked the school that fit my needs, and would advise you to visit both programs and decide which will meet yours. You will do just fine as a PA - if you try - as a grad from either program.

 

[Junkie_Smith]

I am a first-year at ASHS (well, at least I am for a few more weeks ). I am the first-year rep on the ad com steering committee; that's where the numbers came from.

ASHS stood out for me from the beginning because of its emphasis on the community atmosphere. I went to a 'name' for undergrad, but now as an older student I'd rather have a place where I will be happy for two years. After all, I am paying >40k to spend an enormous amount of time with these people; that's too much to pay to be in an uncomfortable environment.

Whether or not anyone will be a good PA is in their own control, not any schools' hands. The school gives you a foundation of knowledge; it is up to you to apply it and to expand it. I picked the school that fit my needs, and would advise you to visit both programs and decide which will meet yours. You will do just fine as a PA - if you try - as a grad from either program.

Yeah, I realize that a lot of what I come out is what I do myself- but having good training for that foundation does help. I've heard from a couple of Midwestern PA graduates that supposedly docs preferred Midwestern people because it seems that their training is better than ASHS. That's why I'm asking, to see how much of a basis of truth there is to this. Granted, they might not be the most objective people to hear from, but sometimes people will be straightforward with how happy they are with the program and what perceived weakness they think their training has.

 

[Carolina Girl]

I've heard from a couple of Midwestern PA graduates that supposedly docs preferred Midwestern people because it seems that their training is better than ASHS. That's why I'm asking, to see how much of a basis of truth there is to this. Granted, they might not be the most objective people to hear from, but sometimes people will be straightforward with how happy they are with the program and what perceived weakness they think their training has.

Maybe docs do prefer MW grads - I really don't know for sure. Their anatomy preparation is better. But, ASHS still has a 100% job placement rate, and the average starting salary is above the national average by a small amount. I'm pretty sure we won't have a problem getting decent jobs as new grads.

Not that it matters, but ASHS has beaten MW in the state challenge bowl every year but one. The last year, MW said they didn't have the funds to participate, so ASHS paid for students from both school, and ASHS won again. There hasn't been a challenge bowl since. Not that this should have any bearing on which school you choose, but it feels good to be able to say it

 

[mx_599]

Yeah, I realize that a lot of what I come out is what I do myself- but having good training for that foundation does help. I've heard from a couple of Midwestern PA graduates that supposedly docs preferred Midwestern people because it seems that their training is better than ASHS. That's why I'm asking, to see how much of a basis of truth there is to this. Granted, they might not be the most objective people to hear from, but sometimes people will be straightforward with how happy they are with the program and what perceived weakness they think their training has.

Those docs' comments are probably totally hearsay. I can assure you that the cardiologists at my clinic probably were not even aware of either of these two institutions offering a degree as a PA! We are located in East mesa near the ATSU as well!! Yes, doctors can be this clueless.
This concern should be the last on your mind if you like ATSU/ASHS.

 

[Zeuss]

Rumor is ASHS just lost their accreditation--not put on probation--but LOST it. The reasons were for (1) falsification of documents to the accreditation commission on where and how many hours students were obtaining for their rotations. Apparently, the data was "made-up". Also, there were (2) questions about their teachers and staff. Many PA's on faculty had not practiced in years, did not have active licensure with physician supervision, and were treating students. Then, the issue of (3) accepting students who did not meet the school's requirements.

One of the Dean's quit, another is being "replaced".

The accreditation committee is supposed to be going back to 2009--and checking records. Anybody who graduated in 2009 or later, may have to re-take courses and the State PA Boards are being informed of this.

All rumor...can't find anything on the internet to confirm this--so take it with a grain of salt. However, the story is rampant at ASHS now and these details are common knowledge. I sure hope they're false. Lots of really good people could be affected by this.