how hard is it to get into DO schools? I have low GPA

[user3]

3.3/3.5/28 was good enough for me to get 7 interviews (including both CA DO schools). if you want to stay in California, sorry to say you gotta really boost up your scores and not be satisfied with anything less than a 27 on your MCAT, or have one hell of an interesting story along with a demonstrated passion to be a DO in order to make you stand out. CA med schools (DO or MD) are incredibly competitive

did you get into Touro-CA?

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[guylewis]

I didn't go to the interview, I already had an acceptance to my top two choices (KCUMB and Western). so I decided to save my money and forgo the travel. If I got an acceptance to Touro CA I probably wouldn't have chosen it over either Western or KCUMB.

I only went to three interviews of the seven I was offered. besides the two I already mentioned, I also interviewed at LECOM-B. I got rejected from there, fortunately. I really didn't like it, it was definitely not my particular cup of tea (I guess that must've shown at the group interview).

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Regarding DO and average PhD program entrance, IMO I don't think it's the same difficulty at all. DO being more time consuming, and more difficult.
In my experience, 50 percentile MCAT is more difficult that 75% GRE. Done both. Haven't done DAT, but from an acquaintance that teaches both MCAT and DAT at a review company, the MCAT is considerably more difficult.
I do agree anyone with a good dose of ambition,perseverance and average brain-power can get in. I feel the same for MD, though it may take longer and an extra dose of perseverance. I mean, is not like MD all of a sudden is unattainable by a regular mortal.

It's difficult to compare the time commitment and difficulty to be completely honest. DO students in majority volunteer maybe 100-150 hours to getting some clinical and shadowing experience. PhD students volunteer at least 2 years for research experience and even then having trouble getting into certain schools or fields. But again, the populations applying are likely somewhat different so even a pure gpa/time comparison is worthless.

 

[Mehd School]

Did that person apply to LUCOM? I would imagine they have a good chance there

Against my suggestions, yes.

 

[TXKnight]

It's difficult to compare the time commitment and difficulty to be completely honest. DO students in majority volunteer maybe 100-150 hours to getting some clinical and shadowing experience. PhD students volunteer at least 2 years for research experience and even then having trouble getting into certain schools or fields. But again, the populations applying are likely somewhat different so even a pure gpa/time comparison is worthless.

This is true, it's hard to compare these two student populations.

 

[guylewis]

Ph D. programs and GREs are a joke in comparison to the MCAT and getting into med school. getting accepted into a graduate program was one of the easiest things I ever had to do. the professor I did research for in undergrad wanted me to be her grad student so she told me to apply, take the GRE and not mess up on it, and that she would take care of the rest. I did a half ass attempt at the GRE, still scored well just by studying on my own for a few weeks, and was soon there for the interview weekend. the interview weekend was comprised of: having lunch with your professor, getting interviewed by two other professors (which was CAKE), and then going to one of the professors houses at night and getting drunk with the professors and current grad students. seriously, open bar. if the professor wanted you, there was no chance you would get denied. There was one guy who was interviewing one of the years after I got accepted who was categorically a psycho. he was just a weird dude who said some insane things on the interview weekend. we told the professor that the interviewee was crazy, and we told the admin. but that professor really wanted him in his lab, so he was accepted. if that guy acted even 1/4 as crazy at a med school interview, he could kiss any hope of an acceptance goodbye.

 

[CSqueed]

Ph D. programs and GREs are a joke in comparison to the MCAT and getting into med school. getting accepted into a graduate program was one of the easiest things I ever had to do. the professor I did research for in undergrad wanted me to be her grad student so she told me to apply, take the GRE and not mess up on it, and that she would take care of the rest. I did a half ass attempt at the GRE, still scored well just by studying on my own for a few weeks, and was soon there for the interview weekend. the interview weekend was comprised of: having lunch with your professor, getting interviewed by two other professors (which was CAKE), and then going to one of the professors houses at night and getting drunk with the professors and current grad students. seriously, open bar. if the professor wanted you, there was no chance you would get denied. There was one guy who was interviewing one of the years after I got accepted who was categorically a psycho. he was just a weird dude who said some insane things on the interview weekend. we told the professor that the interviewee was crazy, and we told the admin. but that professor really wanted him in his lab, so he was accepted. if that guy acted even 1/4 as crazy at a med school interview, he could kiss any hope of an acceptance goodbye.

Which school was this?

I know there are premed students who probably volunteered about 100 hours by hiding in the storage room playing games on their iphone, showed up to the MCAT to get a 24, never showed up to lecture and probably cheated on half of their exams at a big state university to pull their 3.3 GPA and will probably get admitted to LUCOM and become an osteopathic physician.

Princeton MD, different story.

 

[guylewis]

Which school was this?

I know there are premed students who probably volunteered about 100 hours by hiding in the storage room playing games on their iphone, showed up to the MCAT to get a 24, never showed up to lecture and probably cheated on half of their exams at a big state university to pull their 3.3 GPA and will probably get admitted to LUCOM and become an osteopathic physician.

Princeton MD, different story.

lets just say it's fairly prestigious with several Nobel Prizes under its belt

 

[MDforMee]

Ph D. programs and GREs are a joke in comparison to the MCAT and getting into med school. getting accepted into a graduate program was one of the easiest things I ever had to do. the professor I did research for in undergrad wanted me to be her grad student so she told me to apply, take the GRE and not mess up on it, and that she would take care of the rest. I did a half ass attempt at the GRE, still scored well just by studying on my own for a few weeks, and was soon there for the interview weekend. the interview weekend was comprised of: having lunch with your professor, getting interviewed by two other professors (which was CAKE), and then going to one of the professors houses at night and getting drunk with the professors and current grad students. seriously, open bar. if the professor wanted you, there was no chance you would get denied. There was one guy who was interviewing one of the years after I got accepted who was categorically a psycho. he was just a weird dude who said some insane things on the interview weekend. we told the professor that the interviewee was crazy, and we told the admin. but that professor really wanted him in his lab, so he was accepted. if that guy acted even 1/4 as crazy at a med school interview, he could kiss any hope of an acceptance goodbye.

I'm not sure why your Western C/O 2018 signature keeps disappearing, but as a current graduate student, I'm less than impressed with many of my student "colleagues." Sadly, a lot of students attending graduate school are there because they don't have employable skillsets, went to schools you've never heard of and majored in soft sciences or liberal arts, or are otherwise lacking in life skills. The bigger picture is that graduate school can be a sort of reprieve from the "real" world; therefore, you get a mixed bag of shmoes. These people aren't all Rhodes Scholars.

I also took the GRE, but I didn't study for it. Well, I did take 10 minutes to peruse some old math formulas. I scored in the 80% for verbal, 75% for math, and 92% for writing; on the MCAT, I scored a 30R after about a month and a half of basic science review. The average for the veterinary school at my current University is a bit less than my GRE, and they've always told me that this vet school is harder to get into than some medical schools, for what it's worth.

 

[guylewis]

I'm not sure why your Western C/O 2018 signature keeps disappearing, but as a current graduate student, I'm less than impressed with many of my student "colleagues." Sadly, a lot of students attending graduate school are there because they don't have employable skillsets, went to schools you've never heard of and majored in soft sciences or liberal arts, or are otherwise lacking in life skills. The bigger picture is that graduate school can be a sort of reprieve from the "real" world; therefore, you get a mixed bag of shmoes. These people aren't all Rhodes Scholars.

I also took the GRE, but I didn't study for it. Well, I did take 10 minutes to peruse some old math formulas. I scored in the 80% for verbal, 75% for math, and 92% for writing; on the MCAT, I scored a 30R after about a month and a half of basic science review. The average for the veterinary school at my current University is a bit less than my GRE, and they've always told me that this vet school is harder to get into than some medical schools, for what it's worth.

Yeah, I have no idea why it's doing that either. it shows up when it wants to. I thought it had to be a normal thing but now that you point it out, I'm glad to know I wasn't crazy for thinking it was weird

 

[dreamcatcher1520]

.

 

[happypremed1]

Which school was this?

I know there are premed students who probably volunteered about 100 hours by hiding in the storage room playing games on their iphone, showed up to the MCAT to get a 24, never showed up to lecture and probably cheated on half of their exams at a big state university to pull their 3.3 GPA and will probably get admitted to LUCOM and become an osteopathic physician.

Princeton MD, different story.

Princeton doesn't have a medical school. Heck, Princeton doesn't have any professional school.

 

[happypremed1]

Regarding DO and average PhD program entrance, IMO I don't think it's the same difficulty at all. DO being more time consuming, and more difficult.
In my experience, 50 percentile MCAT is more difficult that 75% GRE. Done both. Haven't done DAT, but from an acquaintance that teaches both MCAT and DAT at a review company, the MCAT is considerably more difficult.
I do agree anyone with a good dose of ambition,perseverance and average brain-power can get in. I feel the same for MD, though it may take longer and an extra dose of perseverance. I mean, is not like MD all of a sudden is unattainable by a regular mortal.

Regarding the difficulty in gaining admission to a Phd program, you have to take into account of the field and the name of the program itself. For example, a PhD program in economics at places like Yale, MIT, Princeton will be insanely difficult to get in. You would have to be a genius to get acceptance. Phd graduates in these programs get scooped up by investment banks with huge sign-on bonuses and salaries that doctors would be jealous of.

I'm willing to bet that MBA programs at Harvard and Wharton would be harder to get in compare to DO schools.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

For what it's worth, an Ochem professor at my undergrad school admitted that she got into a top-notch PhD program with a 2.9.

IMO, in terms of difficulty to get accepted MD>DDS=DO>DVM>DPM=PhD=PharmD>OD

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

For what it's worth, an Ochem professor at my undergrad school admitted that she got into a top-notch PhD program with a 2.9.

IMO, in terms of difficulty to get accepted MD>DDS=DO>DVM>DPM=PhD=PharmD>OD

All of these things are probably comparable save for the PhD. PhDs simply look for different things in their perspective applicants than MD/DO. I.e how much of a match you are to a lab/ school's research focus, as well as the quality and quantity of your research experience. In many regards many high quality DO applicants may not match into PhD programs despite being stat wise above par.

 

[guylewis]

All of these things are probably comparable save for the PhD. PhDs simply look for different things in their perspective applicants than MD/DO. I.e how much of a match you are to a lab/ school's research focus, as well as the quality and quantity of your research experience. In many regards many high quality DO applicants may not match into PhD programs despite being stat wise above par.

this is very true. PhDs get into grad school by proving they have great ideas for research and science and that they have the experience to test those ideas well and bring publications to their professor. it's an apples and oranges comparison with professional degrees. it's not a numbers driven thing, it's all about ideas. that's why GREs and GPAs don't matter all that much for getting in.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

For what it's worth, an Ochem professor at my undergrad school admitted that she got into a top-notch PhD program with a 2.9.

IMO, in terms of difficulty to get accepted MD>DDS=DO>DVM>DPM=PhD=PharmD>OD

How the heck can you compare the difficulty of these things? How about PT and OT? I thought getting into PT/OT school was hard, but after someone that I know got into OT school and got her degree, my idea about OT/PT completely changed.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

How the heck can you compare the difficulty of these things? How about PT and OT? I thought getting into PT/OT school was hard, but after someone that I know got into OT school and got her degree, my idea about OT/PT completely changed.

It's competitive, but compared to the competitiveness of other fields like Dent or Med it's almost a world away. We're talking 10th-25th percentile MD applicants being probably able to walk into PT school pending satisfactory GRE performance ( 70th percentile+).
But even beyond that the degree of competitiveness can be somewhat felt in that many MD apps who fail to get in end up trickling down into the other health fields ( i.e see the whole my dentist wanted to be a doctor joke). Not to say that there is something bad in doing that, if you can't cut it into med and want to help people then some of the other health fields are great alternatives and in many chances may be better fits anyway.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

How the heck can you compare the difficulty of these things? How about PT and OT? I thought getting into PT/OT school was hard, but after someone that I know got into OT school and got her degree, my idea about OT/PT completely changed.

That was only my opinion. I came up to this realization after observing several of my undergrad colleagues change their career plans.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

It's competitive, but compared to the competitiveness of other fields like Dent or Med it's almost a world away. We're talking 10th-25th percentile MD applicants being probably able to walk into PT school pending satisfactory GRE performance ( 70th percentile+).
But even beyond that the degree of competitiveness can be somewhat felt in that many MD apps who fail to get in end up trickling down into the other health fields ( i.e see the whole my dentist wanted to be a doctor joke). Not to say that there is something bad in doing that, if you can't cut it into med and want to help people then some of the other health fields are great alternatives and in many chances may be better fits anyway.

This.

A colleague of mine started her undergrad with her heart set on becoming a doctor. By sophomore year, she "changed her mine" and wanted to do dentistry. During junior year, she declared that she was pursuing podiatry and she was already shadowing a podiatrist.

Honestly, I don't think there's anything wrong with that. As you get older you become more mature and you learn what's fits your personality better. It's not necessarily that those who start out as pre-meds and end up in PA schools are less smart or hardworking than those who make it to medical school. They may be less interested in the field and don't see it to be worth their time, money and effort to go through all of these obstacles to become a physician.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

This.

A colleague of mine started her undergrad with her heart set on becoming a doctor. By sophomore year, she "changed her mine" and wanted to do dentistry. During junior year, she declared that she was pursuing podiatry and she was already shadowing a podiatrist.

Honestly, I don't think there's anything wrong with that. As you get older you become more mature and you learn what's fits your personality better. It's not necessarily that those who start out as pre-meds and end up in PA schools are less smart or hardworking than those who make it to medical school. They may be less interested in the field and don't see it to be worth their time, money and effort to go through all of these obstacles to become a physician.

You have to make the choices that are right for your life.

 

[orangeman25]

Get a 35 on the mcat

 

[BestDoctorEver]

Get a 35 on the mcat

35+ MCAT is hard to come by when you step outside of the SDN world...

 

[Sofia Ahmed]

My cumulitive gpa is around 3.3.. but my semester gpa has dropped to 3.0 now and one time it was 3.2(semester gpa), Do i have a chance?? Anyone help? or inbox me with advices? thank you.

 

[NuttyEngDude]

I'm not sure why your Western C/O 2018 signature keeps disappearing, but as a current graduate student, I'm less than impressed with many of my student "colleagues."

Yeah, I have no idea why it's doing that either. it shows up when it wants to. I thought it had to be a normal thing but now that you point it out, I'm glad to know I wasn't crazy for thinking it was weird

It only shows up on the first page of each thread and that was before they changed to the new forum software. When they switched over, it changed to showing up in every post but I think they may have tweaked it to act like the old forums again.

 

[Sofia Ahmed]

Thanks Kenshin23!

 

[coolingglasses]

user3, you gotta stop with your n=1 justifications. one or even a handful of SDNers does not justify saying their stats are competitive, they probably had other things going for them in their application. don't get me wrong, we all enjoy some optimism. but come on

that said, I agree, OP should go for 28+

 

[Mad Jack]

Take the MCAT and get back to us. It will be the greatest way of determining your viability as a candidate. I've seen people got all out bringing up their GPA over the course of a year or two only to bomb the MCAT with a 19 and have no shot of getting in anywhere. Retake courses in the interim if you can, but the MCAT should be your primary goal at the moment.

If you land a 28 or 30, you're probably golden. If you land a 22 you're probably doomed. So take it so you know where you fall.

 

[orangeman25]

If you break a 30 on the mcat, you can stop worrying about your gpa

 

[TXKnight]

Regarding the difficulty in gaining admission to a Phd program, you have to take into account of the field and the name of the program itself. For example, a PhD program in economics at places like Yale, MIT, Princeton will be insanely difficult to get in. You would have to be a genius to get acceptance. Phd graduates in these programs get scooped up by investment banks with huge sign-on bonuses and salaries that doctors would be jealous of.

I'm willing to bet that MBA programs at Harvard and Wharton would be harder to get in compare to DO schools.

True. There are many graduate programs that are insanely difficult to get in including many in the social sciences.

 

[hallowmann]

OP, take retakes to boost your GPAs, but more importantly make sure you do well on the MCAT. You want a LizzyM score of 61/62 or above to be particularly competitive.

Guys, you can't compare PhD to MD/DO. For one, PhD competitiveness varies IMMENSELY with the type of field, as happypremed1 said. On top of that, it varies immensely based on the school for that field. My undergrad for example was top 5 in the country in Engineering, CS, etc. but was unheard of in the Humanities. Getting into a PhD in engineering or CS is near impossible there, but doing for English is relatively easy. You can't talk about getting a PhD like its one career. Its more like a collection of fields, like the collection of all healthcare fields.

user3, you gotta stop with your n=1 justifications. one or even a handful of SDNers does not justify saying their stats are competitive, they probably had other things going for them in their application. don't get me wrong, we all enjoy some optimism. but come on

that said, I agree, OP should go for 28+

But come on, he counted 16 people who got in with low stats (3.0-3.3/22-24) out of the 16,000 that applied last cycle. That must mean that if you have 3.0/24, you're golden, right?