How hard is it to secure audition rotations?

[MRSAful Fate]

I'm a 3rd year, set on applying EM next year. I've been thinking about where I want to audition and I was wondering how hard is it to secure an audition rotation? Do you apply to a few places for a single time slot and hope one comes through? I'm going to be looking at established ACGME places with histories of taking DOs.

Thanks!

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[buccsmf1]

I'm a 3rd year, set on applying EM next year. I've been thinking about where I want to audition and I was wondering how hard is it to secure an audition rotation? Do you apply to a few places for a single time slot and hope one comes through? I'm going to be looking at established ACGME places with histories of taking DOs.

Thanks!

VSAS sucks, theres no getting around it. start doing research on the programs you want to rotate at starting in january. get your paperwork done at least 1 month before they even accept applications through vsas. it could take your clin ed office weeks to get paperwork filled out for you, so plan accordingly. ive heard many are first come first served.

apply to multiple rotation sites per timeslot. once you get an acceptance to a particular timespot, you can cancel the other applications for that slot, or even change the date to another timeslot you have open.

the earlier the date, the harder it is to secure. everyone wants the early spots so they can get their letters in before application go out. I applied for july and august spots. july - applied for 4 rotations, all were full, rejected at all. applied for 2 in august, rejected at one, got the other one. every single rotation I had my paperwork in the day they accepted applications.

moral of the story, have you paperwork together BEFORE applications are accepted, and apply to MANY sites.

 

[MRSAful Fate]

Awesome, thank you for the heads up!

 

[Que]

Going along with this, is there a latest date that you would want to schedule an audition? In other words is there a period beyond which it's pointless to audition?

 

[pianoman511]

I wouldn't go too far past September of fourth year. That way you'll have the opportunity to get a SLOE in time for your application. You'll also be fresh in the minds of the faculty for interviews (hopefully good things).

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[babdoc]

Not totally sure about EM but I found that there are a lot of IM programs that don't go through VSAS. Keep your eye out for good/strong/DO accepting programs that don't use VSAS. You can contact them yourself and are often relatively easy to secure extent ships with. Moral of the story: contact and apply early.

 

[Siggy]

I'm a 3rd year, set on applying EM next year. I've been thinking about where I want to audition and I was wondering how hard is it to secure an audition rotation? Do you apply to a few places for a single time slot and hope one comes through? I'm going to be looking at established ACGME places with histories of taking DOs.

Thanks!

You're at Western, right?

If you end up setting up an audition at a place that we don't have an agreement, push. Push hard. Don't let up until it's on your schedule. My second audition rotation was supposed to start a week from Monday and I've just been told, today, by the site that they still haven't gotten the final approval yet. Despite being told for over a month that "it was essentially a done deal and that it'll be up soon... check back next week." Week after week after week.

If you think they'll put the work in to get the agreement done, you're wrong. Unfortunately, I trusted Western University that when they said it was done... it was done... and the result is I basically have only one audition in a time frame to generate useful LORs because they couldn't do their job. I also have a week now (while on night shifts) to try to find a rotation to fill a 4 weeks of a 5 week void. My match is basically screwed now because I won't have a second EM letter until November... at the earliest... because my home EM was so late (10th to last on the 4th year lottery).

Western University, where you'll become a PCP... even if we have to force it.

 

[MRSAful Fate]

You're at Western, right?

If you end up setting up an audition at a place that we don't have an agreement, push. Push hard. Don't let up until it's on your schedule. My second audition rotation was supposed to start a week from Monday and I've just been told, today, by the site that they still haven't gotten the final approval yet. Despite being told for over a month that "it was essentially a done deal and that it'll be up soon... check back next week." Week after week after week.

If you think they'll put the work in to get the agreement done, you're wrong. Unfortunately, I trusted Western University that when they said it was done... it was done... and the result is I basically have only one audition in a time frame to generate useful LORs because they couldn't do their job. I also have a week now (while on night shifts) to try to find a rotation to fill a 4 weeks of a 5 week void. My match is basically screwed now because I won't have a second EM letter until November... at the earliest... because my home EM was so late (10th to last on the 4th year lottery).

Western University, where you'll become a PCP... even if we have to force it.

Wow, that sucks! Sorry things got so messed up for you. I'm at Western too, thanks for the information. I hope that I can navigate this quagmire without too much interference. It's unfortunate that we don't get much guidance or mentorship unless we're going FM/IM.

 

[JediZero]

You're at Western, right?

If you end up setting up an audition at a place that we don't have an agreement, push. Push hard. Don't let up until it's on your schedule. My second audition rotation was supposed to start a week from Monday and I've just been told, today, by the site that they still haven't gotten the final approval yet. Despite being told for over a month that "it was essentially a done deal and that it'll be up soon... check back next week." Week after week after week.

If you think they'll put the work in to get the agreement done, you're wrong. Unfortunately, I trusted Western University that when they said it was done... it was done... and the result is I basically have only one audition in a time frame to generate useful LORs because they couldn't do their job. I also have a week now (while on night shifts) to try to find a rotation to fill a 4 weeks of a 5 week void. My match is basically screwed now because I won't have a second EM letter until November... at the earliest... because my home EM was so late (10th to last on the 4th year lottery).

Western University, where you'll become a PCP... even if we have to force it.

Yep. From my interactions with the rotations office, it seems like they recently decided to get a lot stricter about requiring affiliation agreements (for whatever reason). Unfortunately, it seems that many of those agreements have lapsed (and the 'database' on Blackboard is out of date and utterly useless).

If you're looking for some support, there's a new dean up North that can advise you on the application process. He's an EM doc, and we hired him away from the MD world where he spent a long time as the Dean basically in charge of helping students match; while he's still learning the ropes of AOA stuff, if you're applying ACGME that's right up his alley. I'm sure he'd be happy to talk with you even if you're SoCal. PM me and I'll pass along his info if you like.

 

[jankymutt]

VSAS sucks, theres no getting around it. start doing research on the programs you want to rotate at starting in january. get your paperwork done at least 1 month before they even accept applications through vsas. it could take your clin ed office weeks to get paperwork filled out for you, so plan accordingly. ive heard many are first come first served.

apply to multiple rotation sites per timeslot. once you get an acceptance to a particular timespot, you can cancel the other applications for that slot, or even change the date to another timeslot you have open.

the earlier the date, the harder it is to secure. everyone wants the early spots so they can get their letters in before application go out. I applied for july and august spots. july - applied for 4 rotations, all were full, rejected at all. applied for 2 in august, rejected at one, got the other one. every single rotation I had my paperwork in the day they accepted applications.

moral of the story, have you paperwork together BEFORE applications are accepted, and apply to MANY sites.

x 2 on this advice.

There was one audition that required an application almost 8 months prior to the rotation and it was still ridiculously competitive to get a spot. Start looking now and think about applying to some of the really competitive rotations in the winter.

 

[OMG Lizards]

What's the prime time for auditions 4th year? Like Aug/Sept/Oct? Hoping to have at least level 2 scores by august.

I'm thinking most AOA residencies would have interviews and such done by November for a feb match.

 

[docnotsopc]

You're at Western, right?

If you end up setting up an audition at a place that we don't have an agreement, push. Push hard. Don't let up until it's on your schedule. My second audition rotation was supposed to start a week from Monday and I've just been told, today, by the site that they still haven't gotten the final approval yet. Despite being told for over a month that "it was essentially a done deal and that it'll be up soon... check back next week." Week after week after week.

If you think they'll put the work in to get the agreement done, you're wrong. Unfortunately, I trusted Western University that when they said it was done... it was done... and the result is I basically have only one audition in a time frame to generate useful LORs because they couldn't do their job. I also have a week now (while on night shifts) to try to find a rotation to fill a 4 weeks of a 5 week void. My match is basically screwed now because I won't have a second EM letter until November... at the earliest... because my home EM was so late (10th to last on the 4th year lottery).

Western University, where you'll become a PCP... even if we have to force it.

Wow im so sorry to hear about your experience with our school. The sad part is you are not the first person that I have heard this kind of experience from. I was warned by several people in the 2013 class!

The best part is when you go to the school, they threaten to make you see the board for unprofessionalism 🙄

 

[Siggy]

So to update the story, it finally got finished. Instead of a 4 week rotation, 1 week vacation, 4 week rotation, it's now 2 weeks vacation, 3 week rotation, 4 week rotation. This puts me in the position of both burning an extra week of vacation, but also now needing to find a 3 week and a 2 week rotation to get back on track (breaking down a 4 week into other options is an option available to students, but I can't find a better term than "on track").

I asked if I could just extend my current rotation 1 week to make it a 5 week rotation and was told that it wasn't possible. Apparently the registrar can handle a 2 week, a 3 week, a 4 week, and a 6 week rotation, but a 5 week rotation is right out.

Thankfully, because of the scheduling I was planning on driving up to Ohio (renting a car for 4 weeks is expensive). I highly doubt that if I had plane tickets that the school would reimburse me the costs (because an email saying, "Set everything up, you're good to go" doesn't bind them to anything). I've actually got more stories about the rotation department (the recent email about not contacting a certain site? That's because the site is saying there's openings for a specific surgical sub-I that the school is refusing to schedule people for), but this one hit me rather hard and I literally broke down that day.

The sad part is that I used to be a cheerleader for Western. Not anymore.

 

[thepoopologist]

So to update the story, it finally got finished. Instead of a 4 week rotation, 1 week vacation, 4 week rotation, it's now 2 weeks vacation, 3 week rotation, 4 week rotation. This puts me in the position of both burning an extra week of vacation, but also now needing to find a 3 week and a 2 week rotation to get back on track (breaking down a 4 week into other options is an option available to students, but I can't find a better term than "on track").

I asked if I could just extend my current rotation 1 week to make it a 5 week rotation and was told that it wasn't possible. Apparently the registrar can handle a 2 week, a 3 week, a 4 week, and a 6 week rotation, but a 5 week rotation is right out.

Thankfully, because of the scheduling I was planning on driving up to Ohio (renting a car for 4 weeks is expensive). I highly doubt that if I had plane tickets that the school would reimburse me the costs (because an email saying, "Set everything up, you're good to go" doesn't bind them to anything). I've actually got more stories about the rotation department (the recent email about not contacting a certain site? That's because the site is saying there's openings for a specific surgical sub-I that the school is refusing to schedule people for), but this one hit me rather hard and I literally broke down that day.

The sad part is that I used to be a cheerleader for Western. Not anymore.

Such is the osteopathic world.

 

[JediZero]

Wow im so sorry to hear about your experience with our school. The sad part is you are not the first person that I have heard this kind of experience from. I was warned by several people in the 2013 class!

The best part is when you go to the school, they threaten to make you see the board for unprofessionalism 🙄

There was some sort of official response by Western to the failed merger/new Fellowship rules, which basically concluded, "Well, that would have been nice, but hey, you don't need a fellowship to go into primary care!" /facepalm

But yes. My week just isn't complete anymore unless I get threatened with being pulled off of rotations and/or plunked in front of the Student Performance Committee for emailing the wrong person/missing random paperwork/asking for time off for USMLE/whatever. *sigh*