How I got Hosed by the ORAL BOARDS

[stim4u]

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For all those out there that think there is justice in the world, think again...

I recently got back my oral board results and to my surprise, I failed. Actually I was more like shocked. But I believe there is a reason behind this erroneous result, in addition to the "failure quota" and extra cash the ABA is milking from a certain percentage of us.

This aside, I am an ivy league trained anesthesiologist, fellowship trained, scored top 80-90% on all ABA exams since first year, took several oral exams with legitimate examiners (all saying I will ace the exam), and studied for 3months straight.

During the first session I had two Caucasian southern males in a hotel room...
So the scene was two deep-south white male anesthesiologists and an Asian American (me). The case was a peds patient with a VSD. I could tell from the onset they had some kind of agenda. The questioning began with VSD physiology uptake of TIVA and inhalation. The discussion got a little intense when I said TIVA is usually prolonged and inhalational agents are variable depending upon Cardiac output (it can remain unchanged or increase). He did not agree. Then it proceeded to why I did not use ketamine for induction, and I mention that it was a reasonable choice, but I did not want to worsen PHT. They adamantly denied that ketamine could do this (which it can by most references). Then it got heated again regarding postop ventilation and using pressure control vs. imv/ps. Again I said there are no true outcome studies, but as long as peak pressures are managed either is okay. This went on and on. These guys were combative and argumentative. They wanted me to give in and concede. It was quite uncomfortable. Nor do I concede if I am right.

During the next session two Caucasians from Texas went at me. Both gave me the coldest greeting and evil eyes at the door. I was not sure if this was the "game" they play or something real. During this session the heated topics were 'fast track anesthesia' after cardiac surgery. The guy wanted me to fast track the patient in the OR. My response was give me more data, bypass time, coags, hemodynamics, extubation criteria, etc. This guy became aggressive and said I was dogging the issue (I was being a consultant actually). Then came the question, which test is most specific for liver dz, pt/ptt/ or INR. I told him pt and ptt give different info reg liver fxn, intrinsic and extrinsic sytems etc. Clearly he did not want to hear it. All this time both guys were giving condescending glares, slouching in their chairs, looking away in disgust, and so on.

Now I was under the impression that if I got that far in the session and we were discussing "controversial" issues, that this was a good thing. Boy was I wrong...

I had the fortune to have two colleagues get the same stem questions that morning, and we all agreed on essentially all the answers. SO I left the test feeling pretty good and confident. I answered all their questions, kept my composure, and justified everything I said.

The icing to this story is. I had recently turned down an academic position at a major teaching institution. The Chair person was at the Oral EXAM. I saw the person but was happy that I did not have to claim a "conflict of interest." But after recalling all the prejudgments, rude comments, and aggressive behavior from my examiners, I believe there was a true conflict of interest. I am sure just as anesthesiologists gossip in the OR, this chair person must have dropped some bad karma about me. Subsequently, I had to deal with all this old boys network and personal vendettas during my god dam Oral exam....
This test is subjective, and human error is ever-present...If you gotta fail somebody, might as well fail the Asian who pissed our colleague off.

Unbelievable... Clearly, I wrote a letter to the ABA describing my situation, academic skills, colleagues giving similar responses, and obvious conflict of interest during the session. I imagine they will toss me to the wayside. In the end we are nothing to them. If you are "different" or have personal grudges against you, you are done. It meets their "failure quota" and makes them extra money. I have to pay another 1800k and I lose money on my fellowship boards. This is crazy...If this test was taped, any impartial and ethnically diverse panel would have clear seen that I was a consultant, I made calculated decisions.

Some of you may think I am hallucinating. Maybe I need some thorazine... I don't know... But there are too many coincidences in this story. And ultimately, I am well trained and answered all their questions with thought, versatility, and evidence.

I got hosed... And now my life is put on hold...Does any one care, probably not. Just watch your back, and complain if those "impartial" Oral examiners are combative and aggressive... This is still an old boys club, and if you are not like them, good luck....

 

[militarymd]

I will give you my observations on your performance (from your own description).

Sounds like you behaved and acted like an uppity ch**k.

 

[rainking]

For all those out there that think there is justice in the world, think again...

I recently got back my oral board results and to my surprise, I failed. Actually I was more like shocked. But I believe there is a reason behind this erroneous result, in addition to the "failure quota" and extra cash the ABA is milking from a certain percentage of us.

This aside, I am an ivy league trained anesthesiologist, fellowship trained, scored top 80-90% on all ABA exams since first year, took several oral exams with legitimate examiners (all saying I will ace the exam), and studied for 3months straight.

During the first session I had two Caucasian southern males in a hotel room...
So the scene was two deep-south white male anesthesiologists and an Asian American (me). The case was a peds patient with a VSD. I could tell from the onset they had some kind of agenda. The questioning began with VSD physiology uptake of TIVA and inhalation. The discussion got a little intense when I said TIVA is usually prolonged and inhalational agents are variable depending upon Cardiac output (it can remain unchanged or increase). He did not agree. Then it proceeded to why I did not use ketamine for induction, and I mention that it was a reasonable choice, but I did not want to worsen PHT. They adamantly denied that ketamine could do this (which it can by most references). Then it got heated again regarding postop ventilation and using pressure control vs. imv/ps. Again I said there are no true outcome studies, but as long as peak pressures are managed either is okay. This went on and on. These guys were combative and argumentative. They wanted me to give in and concede. It was quite uncomfortable. Nor do I concede if I am right.

During the next session two Caucasians from Texas went at me. Both gave me the coldest greeting and evil eyes at the door. I was not sure if this was the "game" they play or something real. During this session the heated topics were 'fast track anesthesia' after cardiac surgery. The guy wanted me to fast track the patient in the OR. My response was give me more data, bypass time, coags, hemodynamics, extubation criteria, etc. This guy became aggressive and said I was dogging the issue (I was being a consultant actually). Then came the question, which test is most specific for liver dz, pt/ptt/ or INR. I told him pt and ptt give different info reg liver fxn, intrinsic and extrinsic sytems etc. Clearly he did not want to hear it. All this time both guys were giving condescending glares, slouching in their chairs, looking away in disgust, and so on.

Now I was under the impression that if I got that far in the session and we were discussing "controversial" issues, that this was a good thing. Boy was I wrong...

I had the fortune to have two colleagues get the same stem questions that morning, and we all agreed on essentially all the answers. SO I left the test feeling pretty good and confident. I answered all their questions, kept my composure, and justified everything I said.

The icing to this story is. I had recently turned down an academic position at a major teaching institution. The Chair person was at the Oral EXAM. I saw the person but was happy that I did not have to claim a "conflict of interest." But after recalling all the prejudgments, rude comments, and aggressive behavior from my examiners, I believe there was a true conflict of interest. I am sure just as anesthesiologists gossip in the OR, this chair person must have dropped some bad karma about me. Subsequently, I had to deal with all this old boys network and personal vendettas during my god dam Oral exam....
This test is subjective, and human error is ever-present...If you gotta fail somebody, might as well fail the Asian who pissed our colleague off.

Unbelievable... Clearly, I wrote a letter to the ABA describing my situation, academic skills, colleagues giving similar responses, and obvious conflict of interest during the session. I imagine they will toss me to the wayside. In the end we are nothing to them. If you are "different" or have personal grudges against you, you are done. It meets their "failure quota" and makes them extra money. I have to pay another 1800k and I lose money on my fellowship boards. This is crazy...If this test was taped, any impartial and ethnically diverse panel would have clear seen that I was a consultant, I made calculated decisions.

Some of you may think I am hallucinating. Maybe I need some thorazine... I don't know... But there are too many coincidences in this story. And ultimately, I am well trained and answered all their questions with thought, versatility, and evidence.

I got hosed... And now my life is put on hold...Does any one care, probably not. Just watch your back, and complain if those "impartial" Oral examiners are combative and aggressive... This is still an old boys club, and if you are not like them, good luck....

Dear asian american who failed the oral boards,


I would like to begin by saying I am truly sorry for what you are going through and went through.. You are a good student of anesthesia, you paid attention, you are ivy trained and undoubtedly conscientious anesthesiologist.
I took the orals last sept and passe and all through studying I remember cursing all of them. the aba the asa everyone who would listen. I hated the fact i had to jump through the hoops and give them answers that they wanted to hear. I was livid. I would hear stories about how people failed and would not want it to be me just for the simple fact that I DID NOT WANNA come back the next year,and do it again because it is pure torture..

I was not ivy trained. I was trained by complete *****s. so i knew that wasnt gonna be an edge.. everyone else I knew failed at least once.. So I decided to attend the Michael Ho course. And that was all i needed. i attended his course maybe like 5 times before the orals . And i spent one week prior to the orals at the city of the orals going over exams.. doing 20 must know cases over and over.. listening to him ramble.. It was night and day.. I can tell you that michael ho is the reason I passed the orals. IT WAS MONEY WELL SPENT i cannot believe how prepared this guy is. He makes it his life.. He tweaks the exam every time the exam is given. He talks to hundreds of candidates. It made the difference.. SO next time around please do yourself a favor and take his course.. he will give you the tools necessary. eEasily the smartest anesthesiologist in the country.

MY ADVICE>>> CALL MICHAEL HO.. RESERVE A SPOT in his class for next year.

forget about it.. move forward. You will pass next year.. you are delayed a year. understand they are mother fs. and give them what they want..

I truly wish you well my friend.. feel free to PM ME.. i can send you some material in the mail.. gratis.. because i care..


SJD

 

[stephend7799]

I will give you my observations on your performance (from your own description).

Sounds like you behaved and acted like an uppity ch**k.

dont listen to the above poster.. not only is he arrogant and pompous he is a self admittted racist.

 

[Atropine]

I'm ashamed for you that you felt the need to include the "it must be racist" and conspiracy theories. It should be below you to resort to blaming race as the only reason you failed the exam.
The orals are like any other test--it's a game for those who administer it and you gotta learn how to play it...

 

[EV-Stentor]

Hey dude, sorry about the result bro...I think it sucks you were treated like that but I do think taking a prep course like the other poster said is the way to go. I am only a CA2 but some the new attendings at my program failed the Orals the first time from lack of communication technique with the examiners. They all now swear by Ho's preparation.
Keep hope alive and retake the exam...you WILL pass it.
Another thing don't take Mil's comment seriously he is a good guy just a little sarcastic. Peace

For all those out there that think there is justice in the world, think again...

I recently got back my oral board results and to my surprise, I failed. Actually I was more like shocked. But I believe there is a reason behind this erroneous result, in addition to the "failure quota" and extra cash the ABA is milking from a certain percentage of us.

This aside, I am an ivy league trained anesthesiologist, fellowship trained, scored top 80-90% on all ABA exams since first year, took several oral exams with legitimate examiners (all saying I will ace the exam), and studied for 3months straight.

During the first session I had two Caucasian southern males in a hotel room...
So the scene was two deep-south white male anesthesiologists and an Asian American (me). The case was a peds patient with a VSD. I could tell from the onset they had some kind of agenda. The questioning began with VSD physiology uptake of TIVA and inhalation. The discussion got a little intense when I said TIVA is usually prolonged and inhalational agents are variable depending upon Cardiac output (it can remain unchanged or increase). He did not agree. Then it proceeded to why I did not use ketamine for induction, and I mention that it was a reasonable choice, but I did not want to worsen PHT. They adamantly denied that ketamine could do this (which it can by most references). Then it got heated again regarding postop ventilation and using pressure control vs. imv/ps. Again I said there are no true outcome studies, but as long as peak pressures are managed either is okay. This went on and on. These guys were combative and argumentative. They wanted me to give in and concede. It was quite uncomfortable. Nor do I concede if I am right.

During the next session two Caucasians from Texas went at me. Both gave me the coldest greeting and evil eyes at the door. I was not sure if this was the "game" they play or something real. During this session the heated topics were 'fast track anesthesia' after cardiac surgery. The guy wanted me to fast track the patient in the OR. My response was give me more data, bypass time, coags, hemodynamics, extubation criteria, etc. This guy became aggressive and said I was dogging the issue (I was being a consultant actually). Then came the question, which test is most specific for liver dz, pt/ptt/ or INR. I told him pt and ptt give different info reg liver fxn, intrinsic and extrinsic sytems etc. Clearly he did not want to hear it. All this time both guys were giving condescending glares, slouching in their chairs, looking away in disgust, and so on.

Now I was under the impression that if I got that far in the session and we were discussing "controversial" issues, that this was a good thing. Boy was I wrong...

I had the fortune to have two colleagues get the same stem questions that morning, and we all agreed on essentially all the answers. SO I left the test feeling pretty good and confident. I answered all their questions, kept my composure, and justified everything I said.

The icing to this story is. I had recently turned down an academic position at a major teaching institution. The Chair person was at the Oral EXAM. I saw the person but was happy that I did not have to claim a "conflict of interest." But after recalling all the prejudgments, rude comments, and aggressive behavior from my examiners, I believe there was a true conflict of interest. I am sure just as anesthesiologists gossip in the OR, this chair person must have dropped some bad karma about me. Subsequently, I had to deal with all this old boys network and personal vendettas during my god dam Oral exam....
This test is subjective, and human error is ever-present...If you gotta fail somebody, might as well fail the Asian who pissed our colleague off.

Unbelievable... Clearly, I wrote a letter to the ABA describing my situation, academic skills, colleagues giving similar responses, and obvious conflict of interest during the session. I imagine they will toss me to the wayside. In the end we are nothing to them. If you are "different" or have personal grudges against you, you are done. It meets their "failure quota" and makes them extra money. I have to pay another 1800k and I lose money on my fellowship boards. This is crazy...If this test was taped, any impartial and ethnically diverse panel would have clear seen that I was a consultant, I made calculated decisions.

Some of you may think I am hallucinating. Maybe I need some thorazine... I don't know... But there are too many coincidences in this story. And ultimately, I am well trained and answered all their questions with thought, versatility, and evidence.

I got hosed... And now my life is put on hold...Does any one care, probably not. Just watch your back, and complain if those "impartial" Oral examiners are combative and aggressive... This is still an old boys club, and if you are not like them, good luck....

 

[zippy2u]

All oral board exams should be videotaped with audio-- period. Then the entire board should decide yeah or nay. Sounds to me like you got screwed. I wouldn't put it past those examiner clowns to have blackballed you because you didn't take that academic job. Racism may have been a component. Do you have a heavy accent? I used my slow twangy Southern drawl and I charmed the pants off those mofos --- Phuck em Regards, ---Zip

 

[EV-Stentor]

Hey Mil, much respect for you bro but go easy on the guy will ya??....he just went thru a difficult experience and can use some encouragement not sarcasm...Peace.

I will give you my observations on your performance (from your own description).

Sounds like you behaved and acted like an uppity ch**k.

 

[ultm8frisbee]

All oral board exams should be videotaped with audio-- period. Then the entire board should decide yeah or nay. Sounds to me like you got screwed. I wouldn't put it past those examiner clowns to have blackballed you because you didn't take that academic job. Racism may have been a component. Do you have a heavy accent? I used my slow twangy Southern drawl and I charmed the pants off those mofos --- Phuck em Regards, ---Bukuboy

Hey I agree, they should probably at least tape record every examination. Then again, you will probably have every person who failed requesting that there exam be reviewed for fairness, right?

 

[Noyac]

Mil may be too brash for some of you (its just a forum don't get so worked up) but there is some wisdom in his post. I was thinking sort of along the same lines as I read your original post, Stim. You want to play the race card when things get tough and don't go your way. How are you going to act when things don't go your way in your new group? Are you going to call everyone racist?
Lets assume for a minute that you are right, which I really doubt. Do you think the ABA is going to do anything about it? NO! So I recommend that you learn from this and don't let it happen again. Figure out where it went wrong for you and fix it (hint: its not your race). I had a residency friend who was Asain that passed the first time. I could barely understand him (I knew for 4 years so I'm sure the examiners struggled to understand him) and he wasn't that strong in anesthesia either. You may have been unfortunate with your examiners but the chances are that you will do fine the next time if you use this experience to learn something. Not all examiners are the way you describe. I had 1 a**hole examiner who barely greeted me when I walked in, stared coldly at me, interrupted me mid sentence, and tried to argue with me (Hint#2: don't argue with them). The other examiner in the room was so overpowered by this guy that she hardly asked any questions. She just listened and looked on the a**holes paper for marks. I thought, this is great, I am being given 2 scores from one a**holes. At the end he stood up and said " Thank You, you are dismissed". The next room was much better. They greeted me and were mostly friendly throughout the exam. At the end they stood up and said "Thank you" and then one came around and shook my hand and said "Well Done". I didn't think they were supposed to do that.
Bottomline, you worked your a** off to get here. Don't let this stop you. You must pass this exam so figure out how you are going to accomplish that and focus on it. If 2 of us hear thought that you might have a chip on your shoulder (I may be off base but thats how the post came accross) then I'm sure others are thinking the same and possibly the examiners got the same vibe. I may piss you off here but if it helps you pass the Orals then you can thank me later. That is if you learn from this experience.
PS: Just cause you are an Ivy Leaguer doesn't give you a free pass, nor does it mean you know it all.

 

[GasEmDee]

Hey I agree, they should probably at least tape record every examination. Then again, you will probably have every person who failed requesting that there exam be reviewed for fairness, right?

Hmm. On first glance that does sound reasonable. If you pass, no one will care to review the tapes. If you fail, then it seems reasonable to ask that the board ensure the test was administered impartially. Hopefully be a small number of ppl. After all, this is one's career -- and chunk of pocket change -- that we are talking about.

 

[LHCF]

I'm sorry about your boards. I know that you must be upset, but be careful before making it a discrimination issue. See if you can discuss the cases with the attendings at your home institution. Maybe they can go to bat for you (or at least give you some mock oral exams for next time). Better luck next time.

 

[deleted87051]

Every year lots of smart guys and gals from good programs fail the orals. This is the beauty of the orals, you don't have to be an FMG or from a marginal program to fail. We all felt "hosed". But remember this will be meaningless ancient history after you pass.

I would not waste any effort and energy appealing the results. Take Michael Ho's course, the book is superb and the public mock orals provide a lot of insight into testing technique. You get to watch all your colleagues dig themselves into holes.

Been there.

 

[militarymd]

I had 4 class A, Level I, A-holes for examiners who told me everything I said was wrong or "foolish"....One even sneered "Why would you do that?"


They passed me....oh, and by the way, in case you didn't know, I'm oriental.....although without an accent.

 

[SouthSideSteve]

I will give you my observations on your performance (from your own description).

Sounds like you behaved and acted like an uppity ch**k.

some of you need to relax.

 

[stim4u]

Thanks eveybody for the comments. A couple things. ONe, I do not have an accent. Two, the answers I gave were well-founded, evidence based, and appropriate. I never lost my cool. When I was being pounced, I just went about my answers in a methodical way. More importantly, I gave essentially the same answers as my 2 colleaues who took the exam at the same time and had the same stem questions and follow up questions. Those guys had reasonable examiners of course.

My theory is, there are "ringer" examiners, whether they be whiteboys or not, and there are true "empiric" examiners out there. If you get two sessions with the "ringers" your percentages of passing lessen. If you fall into their trap of arguing a valid point, they can use the personality card against you. It turned out I had a bunch of white guys from down south and texas. You know the type of Alpha-male bull **** that goes on in a heated setting. Clearly, the vibe you get in a room with a woman or ethnical person is way different. This should not be the case in a critical Oral exam...

I knew this type of thing happens during the Oral boards and I always kept my cool...The only way one would ever know would be to video tape and record my session. I took several mock exams at my institution and it was not even close that I was deficient. All this is a little overwhelming, but as some of you have mentioned, even the best people we know get screwed (really smart people, Progam Chairs,etc.). just cover your ass, thats my advice.

later
stim4u 😕

 

[toughlife]

Thanks eveybody for the comments. A couple things. ONe, I do not have an accent. Two, the answers I gave were well-founded, evidence based, and appropriate. I never lost my cool. When I was being pounced, I just went about my answers in a methodical way. More importantly, I gave essentially the same answers as my 2 colleaues who took the exam at the same time and had the same stem questions and follow up questions. Those guys had reasonable examiners of course.

My theory is, there are "ringer" examiners, whether they be whiteboys or not, and there are true "empiric" examiners out there. If you get two sessions with the "ringers" your percentages of passing lessen. If you fall into their trap of arguing a valid point, they can use the personality card against you. It turned out I had a bunch of white guys from down south and texas. You know the type of Alpha-male bull **** that goes on in a heated setting. Clearly, the vibe you get in a room with a woman or ethnical person is way different. This should not be the case in a critical Oral exam...

I knew this type of thing happens during the Oral boards and I always kept my cool...The only way one would ever know would be to video tape and record my session. I took several mock exams at my institution and it was not even close that I was deficient. All this is a little overwhelming, but as some of you have mentioned, even the best people we know get screwed (really smart people, Progam Chairs,etc.). just cover your ass, thats my advice.

later
stim4u 😕

Wow sorry you had a rough time with your oral boards. As many have commented, failure of any kind for any health professional certainly leaves a sour taste in anyone's mouth. In the grand scheme of things this failure will be insignificant and you'll still be the great anesthesiologist you want to be.

In times like these it is easy to try to rationalize our shortcomings. However, in the end, this won't change the outcome of things and it is better to move on.

Setbacks in life build character and having the ability to overcome them and
come out triumphant is what separates the men from the boys.

"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall" -- Confucius

 

[HTD]

You are angry and need a place to vent. Fine. Your comments about the southern examiners are inappropriate. You failed. Deep breath. Next problem. Blaming others for it will not help you cope and move on to solve this problem. People that know the answers (high written exam scoreres) and fail have some deficit in communication skills. Many boards feel that this is a key ingredient in being a safe doctor. If you can't comprimise and negotiate a stressul situation, they fail you.

In surgery, fellows fail when they get asked questions about their specialty. They are looking for standard of care answers, nothing more. My board told me at the day of the exam, "We are looking for safe surgeons, we know you are smart because you passed the written to get here". Knowing more than the examiner never passed anyone. They may see your achilles heel as being a person that thinks they are so smart that they are incapable of error.

Two bits of advice.
1. You need some practice oral exams and really listen to the criticism. Failure leads to success.
2. Perspective. Remember, the board exists to promote and regulate the specialty. They (your board) felt that on that day, you were not up to their standards. So proove them wrong, it sounds like you are quite capable of doing that.

best of luck to you

 

[bogatyr]

My theory is, there are "ringer" examiners, whether they be whiteboys or not, and there are true "empiric" examiners out there. If you get two sessions with the "ringers" your percentages of passing lessen. If you fall into their trap of arguing a valid point, they can use the personality card against you. It turned out I had a bunch of white guys from down south and texas. You know the type of Alpha-male bull **** that goes on in a heated setting. Clearly, the vibe you get in a room with a woman or ethnical person is way different. This should not be the case in a critical Oral exam...
:

I can't tell if you just stereotyped all white males as jerks or all women and minorities as submissive.

 

[bogatyr]

I had 4 class A, Level I, A-holes for examiners who told me everything I said was wrong or "foolish"....One even sneered "Why would you do that?"


They passed me....oh, and by the way, in case you didn't know, I'm oriental.....although without an accent.

We were taught in our medical school 'cultural competency' courses that only rugs could be Oriental.

 

[militarymd]

We were taught in our medical school 'cultural competency' courses that only rugs could be Oriental.

Are you calling me a rug?

 

[chrisjohn]

Ivy educated means D***.

No one ever passed an oral by arguing with the committee.

The only thing you have done here is reveal your own racist patina and inability to accept responsibility for the outcome. If taking the orals x2 is the only failure you have to deal with, count yourself among the lucky ones.

 

[cloud9]

My theory is, there are "ringer" examiners, whether they be whiteboys or not, and there are true "empiric" examiners out there. ...It turned out I had a bunch of white guys from down south and texas. You know the type of Alpha-male bull **** that goes on in a heated setting. Clearly, the vibe you get in a room with a woman or ethnical person is way different.

So caucasian males from Texas are a$$holes by default because of where we are from? All "alpha-males" and urinating on the OR's to "mark our territory"? "Good -ol boys network"? Please.

Sourthern hospitality. Hello.

I've heard that those trained in the Northeast are all arrogant and condescending. The individuals I've met thus far are not so, but judging from the language in your post I would say "the shoe fits".

I wasn't there (at your exam) and I can understand (even condone) some frustration needing to be vented, but if you had this attitude (from OP) in the exam I am not surprised you did poorly.

I agree with Mil. Even if you didn't say it, your body language and facial expressions likely told the examiners your opinion of them which, obviously, has not changed.

 

[Noyac]

Yeah, it was those caucasian southern boys. Your playing the race card but to me you sound like the racist.

I ones on here with the most experience seem to be saying the same thing while those with less are saying something different. Who are you going to listen to? 😕

 

[sunnydaze]

We were taught in our medical school 'cultural competency' courses that only rugs could be Oriental.

Yes! Objects are oriental. People are Asian.

 

[anesthesia9]

I am not sure how I come across as being racist. I am Asian, I have African American friends, best friend is Asian, wife is caucasian, good buddy is homosexual, and so forth.

I have been subjected to racisim in the past, growing up in all white communities. And you cannot tell me that having a strong minded ethnic candidate in a room of caucasian combative/aggresive examiners does not make a difference. I guess in an ideal world/exam everybody is equal. But I do not believe this... Humans are biased. These guys prejudged me, whether it be my color, or a colleague spills dirt on me the night before....

Yes, I will repeat my exam. And hopefully I will pass next time. But remember this, failure does matter. Every credentialing application asks if you have failed a board exam. You cannot lie. And now, because I am an "arrogant, racist, Northeastern, cocky, Asian male" that gives justified and appropriate answers, I will have this blemish on my record. This blows... what blows even more is that I have to take some spoon-feeder course in order to feed these A....... what they want to hear.

Yeah I am venting. Who else can understand what I am going through. You guys are all I have to blow steam off to...

 

[stim4u]

I am not sure how I come across as being racist. I am Asian, I have African American friends, best friend is Asian, wife is caucasian, good buddy is homosexual, and it goes on...

I have been subjected to racisim in the past, growing up in all white communities. And you cannot tell me that having a strong minded ethnic candidate in a room of caucasian combative/aggresive examiners does not make a difference. I guess in an ideal world/exam everybody is equal. But I do not believe this... Humans are biased. These guys prejudged me, whether it be my color, my "facial expressions", or colleagues spilling dirt on me the night before.... This test is not about some examiner analyzing my appearance, facial expressions, cocky attitude. It is about the words coming out of my mouth, my consulting skills, and so forth. I never had any problems before, communicating at work, with patients, or colleagues. Clearly, I am head-strong, but ultimately my responsibility is to my patients...

Yes, I will repeat my exam. And hopefully I will pass next time. But remember this, failure does matter. Every credentialing application asks if you have failed a board exam. You cannot lie. And now, because I am an "arrogant, racist, Northeastern, cocky, Asian male" that provides opinionated, justified, and appropriate answers, I will have this blemish on my record. This blows... what blows even more is that I have to take some spoon-feeder course in order to feed these A....... what they want to hear.

Yeah I am venting. Who else can understand what I am going through. You guys are all I have to blow steam off to... sorry to bother you. Im signing off...

later

 

[Tenesma]

the oral boards are subjective to a certain point.. they are looking for very specific things

1) can you recognize a life-threatening problem and do you know how to treat it (usually before providing a diagnosis)

2) are you flexible in and outside of the OR to the needs of the patient and/or surgeon

3) do you recognize the limits of your knowledge, and do you know how to address your lack of knowledge on a certain topic so as to provide adequate care to the patient....

You will fail for the following reasons
1) failure to recognize imminent patient compromise (airway/hemodynamics)
2) Failure to demonstrate flexibility (ie: argumentative, unwilling to consider the other side of the argument)
3) failure to get more information/consult/re-address problems
4) obvious lack of knowledge on commonly understood principles...

It isn't racist... and the ABA corrects for it by using statistical analysis for both the types of questions asked as well as the examiners typical scoring patterns.... While that may make you feel better - the above reasons are actually the real reasons...

 

[Undecided12]

Are you calling me a rug?

 

[cloud9]

Are you calling me a rug?

Ooooooooo. Thems was fightin' words, eh Mil?

 

[cloud9]

You will fail for the following reasons
1) failure to recognize imminent patient compromise (airway/hemodynamics)
2) Failure to demonstrate flexibility (ie: argumentative, unwilling to consider the other side of the argument)
3) failure to get more information/consult/re-address problems
4) obvious lack of knowledge on commonly understood principles...

May have been a contributing cause (in addition to lack of good 'ol boy membership).

 

[rainking]

I am not sure how I come across as being racist. I am Asian, I have African American friends, best friend is Asian, wife is caucasian, good buddy is homosexual, and it goes on...

I have been subjected to racisim in the past, growing up in all white communities. And you cannot tell me that having a strong minded ethnic candidate in a room of caucasian combative/aggresive examiners does not make a difference. I guess in an ideal world/exam everybody is equal. But I do not believe this... Humans are biased. These guys prejudged me, whether it be my color, my "facial expressions", or colleagues spilling dirt on me the night before.... This test is not about some examiner analyzing my appearance, facial expressions, cocky attitude. It is about the words coming out of my mouth, my consulting skills, and so forth. I never had any problems before, communicating at work, with patients, or colleagues. Clearly, I am head-strong, but ultimately my responsibility is to my patients...

Yes, I will repeat my exam. And hopefully I will pass next time. But remember this, failure does matter. Every credentialing application asks if you have failed a board exam. You cannot lie. And now, because I am an "arrogant, racist, Northeastern, cocky, Asian male" that provides opinionated, justified, and appropriate answers, I will have this blemish on my record. This blows... what blows even more is that I have to take some spoon-feeder course in order to feed these A....... what they want to hear.

Yeah I am venting. Who else can understand what I am going through. You guys are all I have to blow steam off to... sorry to bother you. Im signing off...

later

dude michael hos course is not spoon feeder.. you learn a ton of stuff in there.. He knows more than anybody in anesthesia

and inorder to pass.. you have to practice practice practice.. I did maybe 100 -150 mock orals . you have to have the answer to it before they answer the question.


Good luck.. be humble.. retake the exam .. pay the 1800 dollars.. and help somebody else pass after you pass..

 

[stim4u]

You are right Rainking (and others)...
I am in the "acceptance" phase of Kubler Ross...
Time to move on.
Maybe sometime in the future there will be a computer-based oral exam, like Step 3, or the new ACLS DVD's... Until then, being prepared and humble is the only way to go. 😳

 

[zippy2u]

Niner, next time ya may consider the James Bond/CIA approach and get all wired up with hidden mic and video. If ya failed a second time, take the video and mic to one of those high profile discrimination lawyers and let him give you his take on it. Worth a shot. Dammit, I want to see transparency with the subjective oral boards. ---Regards, Zip

 

[rainking]

Niner, next time ya may consider the James Bond/CIA approach and get all wired up with hidden mic and video. If ya failed a second time, take the video and mic to one of those high profile discrimination lawyers and let him give you his take on it. Worth a shot. Dammit, I want to see transparency with the subjective oral boards. ---Regards, Zip

not worth it. i cannot believe a seasoned anesthesiologist would offer such silly advice.. just study your ass off.. and have the answer of every question they can possibly ask.. thats what being prepared is.. thats what will make you a great anesthesiologist.. knowing every single issue.. take michael ho's course... being a consultant doesnt mean.. hey i went to hopkins or columbia... they have to pass me.. BS... go back to the drawing board.. You can spend all your energy telling yourself how unfair the exam is (which it is).. or you can spend your energy developing a plan that will work for you. .. If they make a suggestion during the exam.. dont argue with them.. They know more than you .. accept their suggestion.. say ok maybe i CAN do that.. dont be rigid.. thats what they test. yao and artusio is an invaluable resource, michael ho 20 must know is invaluable and reading through cases..

Buena suerte mi amigo,

 

[eagle26]

not worth it. i cannot believe a seasoned anesthesiologist would offer such silly advice.. just study your ass off.. and have the answer of every question they can possibly ask.. thats what being prepared is.. thats what will make you a great anesthesiologist.. knowing every single issue.. take michael ho's course... being a consultant doesnt mean.. hey i went to hopkins or columbia... they have to pass me.. BS... go back to the drawing board.. You can spend all your energy telling yourself how unfair the exam is (which it is).. or you can spend your energy developing a plan that will work for you. .. If they make a suggestion during the exam.. dont argue with them.. They know more than you .. accept their suggestion.. say ok maybe i CAN do that.. dont be rigid.. thats what they test. yao and artusio is an invaluable resource, michael ho 20 must know is invaluable and reading through cases..

Buena suerte mi amigo,

He is JOKING.

 

[PGY2]

I am also an asian american (born in NYC), not ivy league trained, passed my written and orals on the first try, and getting by just fine. I think the thing that got me by was basic people skills in the orals. Nervousness and anxiety are normal. Everyone feels it but not everyone shows it. Next time, try greeting your examiners with a warm and friendly smile. They will like you much better from the get go. It's hard to be mean to people you like. If you come off as cold or worse yet, like a know it all, you will create a hostile environment.

Quoting studies is probably one of the worst things you can do. Throughout residency, I probably only read one or two studies and that was because I was forced to! Personally, if I were the examiner and someone started rolling off a list of studies that prove me wrong, I would be on the defensive too. And worse, I wouldnt like you for making me look dumb.

So my peace of advice would be (take it or leave it): make them like you so much that they would feel bad for failing you. Smile, relax, and be courteous.

Good luck friend! By the way, I agree about going to a course. It wasnt the material that I learned, it was the communication skills and body language. I saw the flaws of others and made sure to correct those flaws in myself. Believe it or not, people do judge you by the way you look and present yourself. Your ethnicity doesnt matter... what matters is if you're likable.

P.S. - dont let my username fool you that was many years ago!

 

[KluverBucy]

Yes! Objects are oriental. People are Asian.

WTF??? people from the far east ARE oriental! if you say that i should refer to you guys as Asians instead, that's fine, but plz consider this.

How is one supposed to differentiate among all the Asians? You could be a Russian, an Indian, a Japanese, an Israeli, a Saudi Arabian, a Afghani, a Lebanese, a Cambodian, a Turk or an Iraqi? It's fairly obvious that there is a wide variation of races and cultures in Asia...thus, the term oriental, IMO, more adequately describes you without offending you by calling you "chinese" instead of "japanese" or "korean".

Simply put orientals ARE people AND objects from Eastern Asian countries. Somewhere in the US a group of "Asians" got together b/c they don't prefer the term oriental and figured asians was better suited for themselves. yes you are asian, but so is 2/3 of the world by that line of thought. just ridiculous. I guess i'll refer to myself as "earthly" because i don't like how american describes me. it sounds less offensive too 🙄

now i know that this is gonna fuel some fire...but in all reality it appropriately describes the group of countries in the Far East IMO, and in fact, I don't believe it's condescending at all. just more specific.

by the way FYI.....
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/oriental

 

[stim4u]

PGY-2:

You give sound advice. Ultimately being humble, likable, and conceding is the way to go.

But ultimately I am a purist and I have issues with not quoting studies, not standing up for ones opinion, and remaining a passive consultant. the ORals should not be based on "facial expressions", body movement, tone of voice, and so forth. These examiners are not psychologists. What is important is right decision making, flexibility, and professionalism.

I would prefer an anesthesiologist who knew the literature, implimented it into his practice, and stood up to a surgeons when need be. This idea that we need to be a homogenous group of Anesthetist is a little absurd.

In any case, next time around I will be prepared, "kinder", likable, passive, nonconfrontational, smiling, give simplistic answers, and conclude with "thank you for giving me this tremendous opportunity, gentlemen..."

Listen to "OK Computer" by Radiohead, there is a monologue by a robot, on how we should live life....Its a little saracastic but a true portrayal of how society likes to conform to rituals... We need computers to give our orals, they don't care what my mustache looks like. 😳

 

[Noyac]

PGY-2:

You give sound advice. Ultimately being humble, likable, and conceding is the way to go.

But ultimately I am a purist and I have issues with not quoting studies, not standing up for ones opinion, and remaining a passive consultant. the ORals should not be based on "facial expressions", body movement, tone of voice, and so forth. These examiners are not psychologists. What is important is right decision making, flexibility, and professionalism.

I would prefer an anesthesiologist who knew the literature, implimented it into his practice, and stood up to a surgeons when need be. This idea that we need to be a homogenous group of Anesthetist is a little absurd.

In any case, next time around I will be prepared, "kinder", likable, passive, nonconfrontational, smiling, give simplistic answers, and conclude with "thank you for giving me this tremendous opportunity, gentlemen..."

Listen to "OK Computer" by Radiohead, there is a monologue by a robot, on how we should live life....Its a little saracastic but a true portrayal of how society likes to conform to rituals... We need computers to give our orals, they don't care what my mustache looks like. 😳

Sounds like you are getting the point here. You will be fine the next time around. If you get nervous (as mentioned by someone earlier) try some metoprolol. It keeps the palpitations down and makes it easier to concentrate. I would imagine the second time around the anxiety may be greater. I wouldn't be too gracious however, (thank you for giving me this tremendous opportunity) it makes you look desparate, IMO.

By the way, Radiohead is an amazing band. Good taste. 👍

 

[bubalus]

In any case, next time around I will be prepared, "kinder", likable, passive, nonconfrontational, smiling, give simplistic answers, and conclude with "thank you for giving me this tremendous opportunity, gentlemen..."

or "Thank you, sir, may I have another"

 

[sevoflurane]

or "Thank you, sir, may I have another"

 

[Carm]

I guess I should be more than ready for the boards since I am training in the land of redneck racists here in Texas. I guess if I can survive my training in this *****ic good ol boy jungle, then when I sit for my boards with the kind enlightened northerners, I should nail them. I am just counting my days until I can sit in front of these northern gentlemen, and even better, the wall flower maidens who appear to run the upper half of the country. I can now breath easy. 🙄

 

[SleepIsGood]

I do disagree with pulling the race card EVERYtime. I think some ppl do overuse it.

To the OP* Who knows what it was that the examiners may have discriminated you on. It could have been race or X.

Case and point. I talked with a chair at school X. He used to be an oral board examiner. This particular doc went to an IVY school and so did a few of his buddies. Anyways, the doc told me straight up that his friend who was an examiner would flunk ppl for the DUMBEST reasons (color of shirt, color of X, person had gone to residency X). Is it wrong...yes. Does it happen....yes.

Personally, I dont think videotaping these things (ie how step 2 CS, etc are done) is such a bad idea. If everyone´s doing what they´re supposed to be, what´s the big deal . Even though Step2,etc are videotaped, it´s rare that ppl actually request these tapes unless it´s for EXCRUTRIATING circumstances (even among those that failed). 😎

 

[stephend7799]

I do disagree with pulling the race card EVERYtime. I think some ppl do overuse it.

To the OP* Who knows what it was that the examiners may have discriminated you on. It could have been race or X.

Case and point. I talked with a chair at school X. He used to be an oral board examiner. This particular doc went to an IVY school and so did a few of his buddies. Anyways, the doc told me straight up that his friend who was an examiner would flunk ppl for the DUMBEST reasons (color of shirt, color of X, person had gone to residency X). Is it wrong...yes. Does it happen....yes.

Personally, I dont think videotaping these things (ie how step 2 CS, etc are done) is such a bad idea. If everyone´s doing what they´re supposed to be, what´s the big deal . Even though Step2,etc are videotaped, it´s rare that ppl actually request these tapes unless it´s for EXCRUTRIATING circumstances (even among those that failed). 😎

i think video taping the oral board exam is cost prohibitive.. it would make the exam maybe 1000 bucks more expensive for everyone.. and it is already freakin ridiculous at 2700 dollars when i took them.. not to mention 3000 for board review courses,, plane ride 500 bucks... hotel for one week 900 dollars.. food 200 dollars. it gets expensive.. thankfully if you are an independent contractor like myself.. its all deductible on my taxes.

I spoke to an official at the ABA in NC, and they go through great pains he said to make sure nobody gets screwed. THey know who is a hard examiner and who is a pushover and some how account for this at the end.. FOr example, If 2 people get the same exam different examiners and say the same things.. one may completely get a failing grade from the hard examiner and one may get a high pass from the easy examiner... yet they both become board certified.. because they take into account the hard examiner is a douche bag.. Im not sure it works all the time. but it sure is reasonable rhetoric.. and i feel for anybody who is a casualty of the oral or written boards... its painful restudying that stuff

 

[jetproppilot]

Yeah, it was those caucasian southern boys. Your playing the race card but to me you sound like the racist.

I ones on here with the most experience seem to be saying the same thing while those with less are saying something different. Who are you going to listen to? 😕

UHHHHHHHHHHHH,

ANYBODY WANNA DIPPA COPENHAGEN??????

whats wrong, don't wanna hang with us southern dudes??

Yeah,

all us southern MD crakkas are racist motherfuc&*@s.

Oh, as an aside, I hand-picked my three partners.

One Mississippi crakka.

One New Orleans brutha.

One Indian dude, totally americanized with more wit than me. But I still can't understand 50% of what he says.

Lose the race card.

 

[BIS]

Speaking of the race card check this email I got. An african american congress woman wants hurricanes to have more black sounding names.

Do devastating hurricanes need help from affirmative action?

A member of Congress apparently thinks so, and is demanding the storms be given names that sound "black."

The congressional newspaper the Hill reported this week that Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee, D-Texas, feels that the current names are too "lily white," and is seeking to have better representation for names reflecting African-Americans and other ethnic groups.


Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee, D-Texas

"All racial groups should be represented," Lee said, according to the Hill. She hoped federal weather officials "would try to be inclusive of African-American names."

A sampling of popular names that could be used include Keisha, Jamal and Deshawn, according to the paper.

Jackson Lee's call is brewing its own storm of response across America.

A WorldNetDaily reader wrote:

"You can be sure if there were too many 'black' names assigned to hurricanes, Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee would instead be complaining that this practice unfairly stereotypes blacks as violent. Let's hope this silly storm blows over!"

Another, Greg Cook, says, "This is ridiculous. How about naming the storms after gang members, or infamous criminals? How about not having any name at all associated with hurricanes?"

Regina Roberston writes: "We should only name hurricanes for foreign officials who are in hiding or considered to be terrorists, or assisting terrorists. We could name the hurricanes after known illegal immigrants, since they are both unwanted and unwelcome anyway. Or how about we only choose French names, so the fear of hurricanes will be put to rest?"

Radio talk-show giant Rush Limbaugh says he was having dinner with his wife when he first learned of the proposal.

"I just threw up my hands. I said, 'Has it come to this now?'" Limbaugh recounted on his show.

"There's discrimination and actually elected officials wandering around worried about the discrimination in the name of hurricanes. And hurricanes are destructive. You know nobody's very excited when a hurricane's heading their way, and yet here she is demanding that hurricanes be named after black people.

"You know it used to be that hurricanes were named only after women because they were destructive and unpredictable. And that's the reason. The feminists grew upset about that, demanded that hurricanes be named after men, and so now, the civil rights leaders are demanding black names for hurricanes.

Limbaugh continued his analysis, saying it was not the mainstream populace responsible for what he called the "Balkanization" of race relations in America.

"It is these elected black leaders, the civil-rights coalitions – they're the ones that keep causing all this racial divide, they're the ones that keep calling attention to all this," said Limbaugh. "They're the ones that keep stirring this pot. They're the ones who don't want there to be any colorblind society. They're the ones who keep being agitated and trying to agitate others over all this, and now it's descended into the meaningless element of the names of hurricanes."

According to the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, hurricanes were for centuries named after the Catholic saints' days on which the storms fell.

In 1953, the United States abandoned as confusing a two-year-old plan to name storms by a phonetic alphabet (Able, Baker, Charlie) when a new, international phonetic alphabet was introduced. That year, weather services began using female names for storms.

The practice of naming hurricanes solely after women came to an end in 1978 when men's and women's names were included in the Eastern North Pacific storm lists. In 1979, male and female names were included in lists for the Atlantic and Gulf of Mexico.

Here ya go.................
PD


Hurricanes...

Well, it appears our African-American friends have found something else to be pissed off about. A black congresswoman (this would be Sheila Jackson Lee, of Houston) reportedly complained that the names of hurricanes are all Caucasian- sounding names.



She would prefer some names that reflect African -American culture such as Chamiqua, Woeisha, and Jamal.

I can hear it now: A black weatherman in Houston saying...





"Wordup, Muthas! Herr-i-cane Chamiqua be headin' fo' Galveston like Leroy on a crotch rocket! Biatchhh be a category fo'! So, turn off dem chitlins, grab yo' chirren, leave yo crib, and head fo' de nearest FEMA office fo yo FREE s$hhiiiitttt".



I did not write the above passage. like I stated it was an email forwarded to me.
BIS

 

[jetproppilot]

Speaking of the race card check this email I got. An african american congress woman wants hurricanes to have more black sounding names.

Do devastating hurricanes need help from affirmative action?

A member of Congress apparently thinks so, and is demanding the storms be given names that sound "black."

The congressional newspaper the Hill reported this week that Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee, D-Texas, feels that the current names are too "lily white," and is seeking to have better representation for names reflecting African-Americans and other ethnic groups.


Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee, D-Texas

"All racial groups should be represented," Lee said, according to the Hill. She hoped federal weather officials "would try to be inclusive of African-American names."

A sampling of popular names that could be used include Keisha, Jamal and Deshawn, according to the paper.

Jackson Lee's call is brewing its own storm of response across America.

A WorldNetDaily reader wrote:

"You can be sure if there were too many 'black' names assigned to hurricanes, Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee would instead be complaining that this practice unfairly stereotypes blacks as violent. Let's hope this silly storm blows over!"

Another, Greg Cook, says, "This is ridiculous. How about naming the storms after gang members, or infamous criminals? How about not having any name at all associated with hurricanes?"

Regina Roberston writes: "We should only name hurricanes for foreign officials who are in hiding or considered to be terrorists, or assisting terrorists. We could name the hurricanes after known illegal immigrants, since they are both unwanted and unwelcome anyway. Or how about we only choose French names, so the fear of hurricanes will be put to rest?"

Radio talk-show giant Rush Limbaugh says he was having dinner with his wife when he first learned of the proposal.

"I just threw up my hands. I said, 'Has it come to this now?'" Limbaugh recounted on his show.

"There's discrimination and actually elected officials wandering around worried about the discrimination in the name of hurricanes. And hurricanes are destructive. You know nobody's very excited when a hurricane's heading their way, and yet here she is demanding that hurricanes be named after black people.

"You know it used to be that hurricanes were named only after women because they were destructive and unpredictable. And that's the reason. The feminists grew upset about that, demanded that hurricanes be named after men, and so now, the civil rights leaders are demanding black names for hurricanes.

Limbaugh continued his analysis, saying it was not the mainstream populace responsible for what he called the "Balkanization" of race relations in America.

"It is these elected black leaders, the civil-rights coalitions – they're the ones that keep causing all this racial divide, they're the ones that keep calling attention to all this," said Limbaugh. "They're the ones that keep stirring this pot. They're the ones who don't want there to be any colorblind society. They're the ones who keep being agitated and trying to agitate others over all this, and now it's descended into the meaningless element of the names of hurricanes."

According to the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, hurricanes were for centuries named after the Catholic saints' days on which the storms fell.

In 1953, the United States abandoned as confusing a two-year-old plan to name storms by a phonetic alphabet (Able, Baker, Charlie) when a new, international phonetic alphabet was introduced. That year, weather services began using female names for storms.

The practice of naming hurricanes solely after women came to an end in 1978 when men's and women's names were included in the Eastern North Pacific storm lists. In 1979, male and female names were included in lists for the Atlantic and Gulf of Mexico.

Here ya go.................
PD


Hurricanes...

Well, it appears our African-American friends have found something else to be pissed off about. A black congresswoman (this would be Sheila Jackson Lee, of Houston) reportedly complained that the names of hurricanes are all Caucasian- sounding names.



She would prefer some names that reflect African -American culture such as Chamiqua, Woeisha, and Jamal.

I can hear it now: A black weatherman in Houston saying...





"Wordup, Muthas! Herr-i-cane Chamiqua be headin' fo' Galveston like Leroy on a crotch rocket! Biatchhh be a category fo'! So, turn off dem chitlins, grab yo' chirren, leave yo crib, and head fo' de nearest FEMA office fo yo FREE s$hhiiiitttt".



I did not write the above passage. like I stated it was an email forwarded to me.
BIS

Hey, thats fine by me.

A hurricane with a CRAKKA name stole from me my waterfront condominium, and flooded my primary home with 16 inches of water, forcing my family and I to eat, sleep, and socialize from our second floor....no kitchen, no common living areas...

...and the saga continues....house still not done, still eating, living, socializing, sleeping on our second floor where all the bedrooms are.

Will probably end up 200K in the hole after all is said and done.

And administrative ass h o l e s are wasting time worrying about what to name the next storm while, in New Orleans, people (including me and my family) continue to suffer emotionally and monetarily.

Please send me that stupid a ss NAACP individual's email so I can write her with my personal experiences.

This is no time to worry about such bullsh i t.

Fine, Senator Toniqua.

Name the next storm whatever the ******* you want. Katrell. Kaneeeesha. Flameeequa. Jarrell. P Diddy.

Maybe a black storm will be kinder to us than the last crakka storm.

ok people lets lose this stupida s s racial s h i t and focus our intellect on something that means something.....truly yours, JPP, a crakka living in the CHOCOLATE CITY.

 

[cfdavid]

or "Thank you, sir, may I have another"

Dude, get it straight. It's "Thank you Master Sergeant, may I PLEASE have another!!!"

 

[jetproppilot]

A member of Congress apparently thinks so, and is demanding the storms be given names that sound "black."
[/B]