How important are MD LORs?

[BrownEMS]

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As a scribe, I have shadowed both MDs, DOs and PA-Cs in an Emergency setting.

In applying for MD programs, should I get letters of recommendations from the doctors I worked under. They are satisfied with my work.

 

[LizzyM]

For the most part, doctor letters are not considered particularly valuable for MD applications compared with DO letters for DO applications.

As a scribe have you worked with/for these professionals or were you shadowing which suggests just watching someone work. As a scribe, weren't you working rather than shadowing?

Letters from physicians you've shadowed tend to be a waste of my time as an adcom. Letters from employers can be valuable although the skills of a scribe (taking dictation, doing data entry quickly and accurately, recording times that specific things were done during codes) are not what adcoms are looking for but if you have been a team player, have shown discretion, resilience, maturity, then those would be the things an adcom would like to hear from a physician on behalf of an applicant regardless of the applicant's job title in a workplace.

 

[purplefrog13]

I used one LOR from an MD that I worked with as an athletic training student and later did my senior internship with. I knew/worked with him for 5 years, and he could attest to my abilities and skills.

I would say that it follows the same rules as other LORs- you choose people you've formed a relationship with over time who know you and your qualities well. I don't think that a physician you have shadowed a few times fits into that category.

 

[gyngyn]

The large majority of MD LoE's add nothing to an application.

 

[WontGiveUp90]

I would disagree, it depends much more on the content of the letter and the capacity in which they know you. I had several interviewers comment on 2 of my LOR's that were very compelling and both from MDs. If they obviously know you, sing your praises and do it well, then it doesn't matter if they are an MD or not. I don't know if I would have been accepted without my MD LORs.

 

[Doctor-S]

Agree with comments posted by @LizzyM, @purplefrog13, and @gyngyn.

It is advisable to provide a LOR from an individual who knows you really well; and who can provide substantive and insightful information/content concerning your merits as an aspiring physician. Choose wisely.

 

[Goro]

The trouble is, every MD (and DO) write LORs exactly like these.

In ~15 years, I've seen maybe two bad clinician LORs.

I would disagree, it depends much more on the content of the letter and the capacity in which they know you. I had several interviewers comment on 2 of my LOR's that were very compelling and both from MDs. If they obviously know you, sing your praises and do it well, then it doesn't matter if they are an MD or not. I don't know if I would have been accepted without my MD LORs.

 

[Moose A Moose]

The trouble is, every MD (and DO) write LORs exactly like these.

In ~15 years, I've seen maybe two bad clinician LORs.

They must've stung. Any chance the students were still accepted?

 

[Goro]

Nope. Any bad LOR is a kiss of death.

They must've stung. Any chance the students were still accepted?

 

[vellez]

What's more important is for the person to know you. If there is an MD who knows you REALLY well, like you were coworkers or something, that may help. But don't waste a valuable letter just because you shadowed with an MD.

 

[cloudstrife2054]

The shadowing coordinator at the hospital I shadowed at told me the doctors say I have a strong desire to learn because I often participate in roundings by asking questions. It sounds like my letter will be relatively strong for a shadowing letter. Besides that, my school does committee letters and the requirement is you need an LoE from a physician you've shadowed.

In my opinion, shadowing is rather tough to show your capabilities, but if you can stand out to the doctor in something like that, it'll show in your letter. Normally, they suggest you ask for an LoE right away because the doctor would forget about your qualities since they're super busy. The doctor I shadowed said she wouldn't forget me so there's no need to worry and she'll write me the letter when I need it. So it sounds like my letter will be stronger than most shadowing letters.

I give all my letter writers a list of potential subjects to talk about based on our interactions to aid them in synthesizing the letter. Naturally, I tailored each list to each letter writer.

 

[libertyyne]

The shadowing coordinator at the hospital I shadowed at told me I have a strong desire to learn because I often participate in roundings by asking questions. It sounds like my letter will be relatively strong for a shadowing letter. Besides that, my school does committee letters and the requirement is you need an LoE from a physician you've shadowed.

That is actually quite clever way of ensuring applicants have some shadowing.

 

[cloudstrife2054]

They also require a certain amount of shadowing hours as well. For a letter packet you need to have a certain amount of shadowing hours. A committee letter requires that at least that much hours shadowing (I won't disclose how much time) and a letter from a health professional. It's pretty clever on their end because a committee letter can only do so much. By having a requirement like this, they require the applicant to be a very strong applicant to be eligible for a committee letter, which magnifies their chances of getting in compared to how it would be if their requirements were more lenient.

 

[cloudstrife2054]

That is actually quite clever way of ensuring applicants have some shadowing.

I didn't hit the reply for your reply. My bad.

 

[libertyyne]

I didn't hit the reply for your reply. My bad.

Also less work for them, since they make applicants jump through more hoops. But not a bad strategy for ensuring a baseline competency before the Letter.

 

[cloudstrife2054]

Also less work for them, since they make applicants jump through more hoops. But not a bad strategy for ensuring a baseline competency before the Letter.

Precisely. I am submitting paperwork to shadow another doctor. Let's see how well this one goes. If it goes pretty well, I might ask this one for a letter as well. I also have professors lined up for my two science professors and one non-science professor letter writers. I've also volunteered at several places. I'm still lacking in research experience. I might get in next semester depending on how well things go with my meeting with this professor at the end of the semester.

 

[BrownEMS]

For the most part, doctor letters are not considered particularly valuable for MD applications compared with DO letters for DO applications.

As a scribe have you worked with/for these professionals or were you shadowing which suggests just watching someone work. As a scribe, weren't you working rather than shadowing?

Letters from physicians you've shadowed tend to be a waste of my time as an adcom. Letters from employers can be valuable although the skills of a scribe (taking dictation, doing data entry quickly and accurately, recording times that specific things were done during codes) are not what adcoms are looking for but if you have been a team player, have shown discretion, resilience, maturity, then those would be the things an adcom would like to hear from a physician on behalf of an applicant regardless of the applicant's job title in a workplace.

I was hoping that being a scribe counts as both working and shadowing. I'm sure I could get some non-scribe shadowing experience, but I don't quite see the personal benefit. I'm glad to see that working for a physician is more valuable in an LOR than shadowing alone.

 

[LizzyM]

I was hoping that being a scribe counts as both working and shadowing. I'm sure I could get some non-scribe shadowing experience, but I don't quite see the personal benefit. I'm glad to see that working for a physician is more valuable in an LOR than shadowing alone.

The way it goes on the AMCAS application, it must be listed as one or the other. Clearly it is paid clinical employment. Adcoms understand scribing and know that you work in close proximity to the physician and that you see the physicians working in that patient care setting.

It might be helpful to shadow in a different environment from the one where you work. In other words, if you work in an ED, shadow in a primary care provider's office. If you are working in a office setting where people come in by appointment, shadow in an ED. If you don't work in an inpatient setting, get some shadowing with a hospitalist seeing patents in ICU and step-down units.

 

[To be MD]

I followed the advice of LizzyM, gyngyn, & co. and did bother to ask the doctors I know for LORs.

Still got in.

Since they don't help that much (if at all), I'd recommend not bothering the physicians you do know for one. They'll just be hear when you're accepted one day.