How important is shadwing?

[shuna2002]

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As I'm applying to D.O. schools, I know it is important to shadow D.O. doctors, or sometimes at least M.D. doctors.
In my situation, I just have secondary applications to submit, but I don't have any physician shadowing hours.
Thus, I got stuck when some secondary essays specifically asked about my shadowing experience, or simply asked for hours.

Now I have two options:
1) Submit secondary application as soon as possible without shadowing hours because admission process is first come, first served.

2) Submit secondary application later (due dates are around March) after getting some shadowing hours because it may be more important than submitting early.

3) Any possiblity of submitting first and getting shadowing done afterwards?

Thanks in advance and please give me your thoughts.

 

[Everglide]

Shadowing is important, there are a variety of reasons why you should do it.

It's winter break at schools, the majority of adcoms are not meeting. If you submit your secondary now, odds are your file is just going to sit there until adcoms meet again in January. Why not take this opportunity to get around 20-40 hours of shadowing in. Go out there and get it done, I know I did around half of my shadowing hours on my winter breaks... I was too broke to travel somewhere warm anyway.

Also, submitting in March is extremely late. You want to be complete long before their deadlines.

 

[Brocimus]

If it were me, I would submit the secondaries now and get the shadowing experience before your interview. At this point, schools are starting to fill up and the longer you wait, the more difficult it will be for you to get an acceptance. Most schools let you submit updates to your application. This is basically a letter written detailing the experience, which they will add to your file. Shadowing, in my opinion, is important, but not important enough to delay your application this late in the game. So, I would apply NOW, start shadowing as soon as you can, then send them the update a week or two before your interview.

 

[shuna2002]

Thanks for your thought.
One thing I didn't mention is that I'm home in Korea (yes, I'm an internation student) and there are NO opportunities for shadwing here in Korea at all unless you have special connection to physicians.

So, the only chance for me to do is when the Winter quarter begins in early January.

Would you still recommend me to get some shadowing done and apply during February?
And if I do, how many hours should I do shadow and should it be from a D.O.?

 

[ShinyDome19]

I am curious, if you dont have any phsyician shadowing hours, what CEs do you have? If you have a lot of other hospital experience, where your around physicians and what not, you might be able to get one of them to write you a letter. If dont have any hospital experience, since its starting to get a little later in the process, I would save the money and paper work, go out and do a ton of shadowing and wait until next cycle to apply...and apply early.

 

[Everglide]

Thanks for your thought.
One thing I didn't mention is that I'm home in Korea (yes, I'm an internation student) and there are NO opportunities for shadwing here in Korea at all unless you have special connection to physicians.

So, the only chance for me to do is when the Winter quarter begins in early January.

Would you still recommend me to get some shadowing done and apply during February?
And if I do, how many hours should I do shadow and should it be from a D.O.?

Pardon my ignorance because I have no idea how the medical system in Korea works but I'm sure if you make enough phone calls and emails, you can find someone to shadow. Could you elaborate on why there are no opportunities without special connections?

You're kind of in a bind here since it's late in the cycle. Keep in mind not all but many schools require a D.O. letter, are you shadowing with a letter in mind?

 

[shuna2002]

I've already met a D.O. doctor and received a recommendation letter last summer, but I didn't have enough time for shadowing.

Admission to medical schools in Korea is very different.
They require your GPA, Medical Admission Test, and interviews.
They don't ask for volunteering, community service, or shadowing hours.
I can volunteer at hospitals, but there is no option for shadowing.

Thus, it is very difficult to shadow physician in a hospital since it is a very busy place and it may promt patients to question what I'm doing there and scare them off.

 

[Everglide]

If you contact enough physicians directly, I guarantee you will find someone who will let you shadow them. Be sure to explain why you want to shadow because the U.S. admissions process is different. You can always contact physicians who do not work in hospitals too. Unless there's some sort of regulation banning shadowing that I am missing.

This is going to sound blunt and generalizing but if worse comes to worse and you can't find someone, look for a physician with an American sounding name and contact them, they may be more receptive to helping you.

 

[ShinyDome19]

I am not sure shadowing is necessarily a requirement beyond getting a LOR from the DO. I personally only had 6 hours of actual "shadowing" of a physician and I got into LECOM and am on delayed decision at an allopathic school. However, I do have a siginificant amount of other hospital/medical based experiences which made up for my lack of shadowing. So, you might be okay if you have other hospital experiences that put you in close proximity to physicians...enough that you get an idea of what they do and how they do it.

 

[beachblonde]

I am not sure shadowing is necessarily a requirement beyond getting a LOR from the DO. I personally only had 6 hours of actual "shadowing" of a physician and I got into LECOM and am on delayed decision at an allopathic school. However, I do have a siginificant amount of other hospital/medical based experiences which made up for my lack of shadowing. So, you might be okay if you have other hospital experiences that put you in close proximity to physicians...enough that you get an idea of what they do and how they do it.

This is crappy advice. While some people can make up for it, clinical experience (aka shadowing for most) is absolutely crucial. (I think most of it is a waste of time, but that's another story for another day)

OP, you unfortunately sound thoroughly unprepared for this admissions cycle. You should have had those secondaries done months ago. Submitting them near the deadline is basically buying yourself a rejection letter. If you really want to try to get in this go-round, send them in ASAP. Then start shadowing as much as you possibly can when you get back to the states, and send in update letters with the shadowing hours.

You want to get into the best possible school you can, and you've put yourself at a huge disadvantage here. I think your best shot would be to withdraw right now, get tons of clinical experience next semester, and apply as early as you can next year. Good luck.

 

[ShinyDome19]

This is crappy advice. While some people can make up for it, clinical experience (aka shadowing for most) is absolutely crucial. (I think most of it is a waste of time, but that's another story for another day)

OP, you unfortunately sound thoroughly unprepared for this admissions cycle. You should have had those secondaries done months ago. Submitting them near the deadline is basically buying yourself a rejection letter. If you really want to try to get in this go-round, send them in ASAP. Then start shadowing as much as you possibly can when you get back to the states, and send in update letters with the shadowing hours.

You want to get into the best possible school you can, and you've put yourself at a huge disadvantage here. I think your best shot would be to withdraw right now, get tons of clinical experience next semester, and apply as early as you can next year. Good luck.

I am not saying that shadowing isnt crucial...just that shadowing isnt the only thing that counts as clinical experience and for someone in a position where shadowing isnt a great option (someone in Korea), that other means of obtaining clinical experience are okay...thought that was clear..my bad if not.

 

[RG73]

Thus, it is very difficult to shadow physician in a hospital since it is a very busy place and it may promt patients to question what I'm doing there and scare them off.

This isn't really a Korea-specific thing--all hospitals are very busy places and patients are usually curious as to why someone is tagging along with the doctor. Every physician I've shadowed has simply preemptively introduced me as a student who's tagging along with them for the day and it hasn't scared off any patients. Granted, I can imagine that while hospitals are no busier in Korea than in the states, there might be a cultural difference as to whether patients except the presence of a student in the room with them and the doctor.

In any event, as to your original question, I think it is well worth finding an opportunity (or two or three) to shadow before applying, even if that means you have to wait until the next application cycle. I mean if you're waiting until February/March to apply without even having shadowed, it would probably be worth it to wait a few more months and apply at the beginning of the next cycle with the shadowing.

Beyond that, I can't really fathom taking the plunge into medical school without first having seen what you're getting into from the physicians perspective. It's one thing to work at the hospital next to physicians, and another to be at their side with patients and going through the day with them. This is why schools want you to do it. Of all the hoops they make you jump through to apply, this one actually has a point. You might hate medicine, but you're not going to know until you know what a doctors day is actually like from start to finish.

 

[kopitar]

Physician shadowing is absolutely essential. If you intend on committing to years of education and sleepless nights, and onto a physically and emotionally demanding career then you need to, at least, shadow a few physicians. I shadowed outpatient, ICU, post operative followups, surgeries etc. The idea is to get a variety of different perspectives about the field from the physicians you shadow. From this you can begin to see where you may want to work in medicine, or if medicine is even for you. Not only do you need shadowing for your own benefit, but also I'd imagine 99% of applicants without it will be reapplying next year. As for shadowing in hospitals it's not like you have to shadow in the E.R., which is very difficult to find, but more realistically the ICU, Med/Surg, maybe even pediatrics. This is a great place to shadow because this is where you will be spending the majority of rotations, and nearly all of your residency. If you try hard you can probably get some shadowing in before the deadlines. Good Luck!

😀KCOM 2014😀

 

[scpod]

This is crappy advice. While some people can make up for it, clinical experience (aka shadowing for most) is absolutely crucial. (I think most of it is a waste of time, but that's another story for another day)...

Shadowing never has been a requirement for admission, nor can you actually call it clinical experience. In a clinical experience you are actually involved in patient care-- either in volunteer or paid situations.

What is important, though, is showing that you have really thought about this path and understand what you are in for. Yes, it probably looks good on your application if you have spent some time shadowing a physician, especially if you don't have any real clinical experience. Still, there are tons of people in my class who never shadowed a single doctor and never did a second of research.

That said, I'm not trying to say that shadowing is a bad idea. But, it isn't as important as some other areas of your application. Yes, there are some schools that require a DO letter but you don't have to shadow someone to get a letter.

 

[beachblonde]

Shadowing never has been a requirement for admission, nor can you actually call it clinical experience. In a clinical experience you are actually involved in patient care-- either in volunteer or paid situations.

What is important, though, is showing that you have really thought about this path and understand what you are in for. Yes, it probably looks good on your application if you have spent some time shadowing a physician, especially if you don't have any real clinical experience. Still, there are tons of people in my class who never shadowed a single doctor and never did a second of research.

That said, I'm not trying to say that shadowing is a bad idea. But, it isn't as important as some other areas of your application. Yes, there are some schools that require a DO letter but you don't have to shadow someone to get a letter.

Really? You know people who got in without research and shadowing? I find that surprising (I'm not doubting you here)

You're right in that shadowing is not required, but it might as well be. Just like getting good grades or a good MCAT score isn't "required" but necessary regardless. If you can gain clinical experience through other venues, by all means, go that route, but for most pre-med types shadowing is likely the only viable option. Being able to put down x hours of shadowing shows that you've gone and watched what a doctor does, and it stands as proof that you've put some thought into the process.

Just because you can apply to med school with no shadowing hours doesn't mean you should.

 

[shuna2002]

I really apprecite all the great comments here.

I do have lots of medical mission trip hours, so I did see what physicians do including surgeries.

I'm trying to contact a few doctors in Korea directly to ask permission to shadow them before Christmas break is over.
(I can probably get over 30 hrs 🙂

I hope shadowing an M.D. would be ok.

Thank you all.

 

[scpod]

Really? You know people who got in without research and shadowing? I find that surprising (I'm not doubting you here)....

I'm not talking a few here; there are lots of them.

You're right in that shadowing is not required, but it might as well be. Just like getting good grades or a good MCAT score isn't "required" but necessary regardless.....

GPA and MCAT are in a whole different ballgame than any other part of your application because they are soooooo easily quantifiable. You can say, without a doubt, that applicant x's MCAT is better than applicant y's MCAT. You cannot say that about in shadowing, LOR's... practically anything else. And even though DO schools might be slightly more likely to look at the "whole candidate" than MD schools might be, they are all still numbers ****** who love to brag about the average GPA and MCAT of their incoming classes.

If you had a choice at raising any one thing in your application, the first thing would be MCAT and the next would be GPA. The more you raise those the higher your chances go at any institution.