How important is the name?

[Wifty]

I just was hoping to get a feeling for how important a big name program is for training and for future opportunities.

Some of the lesser well-known programs have great staff, benefits, and/or places to live. So, when making out match lists.......should big name programs rank higher (assuming that one did like the program) over programs with other good factors that would make general life easier?

For example, living in Chicago is more expensive and less safe then living in Missouri. Is a big name program really important enough overall to outrank a missouri program assuming both programs are liked equally?

Thanks for any input!!!!

Merry Christmas,
Wifty

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[melancholy]

Great question. Even though I am just a 4th year student applying to residency, this has crossed my mind as well as the minds' of others I'm sure.

I don't necessarily think "big name" programs always get ranked higher, especially if an applicant knows what he/she is looking for in a residency training program. For me, that is the big issue. Priorities such as proximity to city/suburb/family/friends, safe location, living expenses, and envisioned future practice setting can potentially make a big difference if say you want to end up in private practice. Some people may not be interested in research.

Does a big name program (as in, the institution the residency program is associated with is a "big name" and not necessarily the program itself) make a difference in terms of job opportunities or fellowships? I've been told on the interview trail that if you are looking at job opportunities with groups that are not intimiately familiar with the PM&R world, a big name may help a little more.

As far as getting fellowships, I don't necessarily think that going to a program that is less well-known is a huge disadvantage, especially if the past graduates have a strong reputation and they have gotten good fellowships in the past.

But hey what do I know, I'm still figuring this all out just like you. Good luck and I hope to learn a lot more from what others have to say about this!

 

[cyanocobalamin]

I just was hoping to get a feeling for how important a big name program is for training and for future opportunities.

Some of the lesser well-known programs have great staff, benefits, and/or places to live. So, when making out match lists.......should big name programs rank higher (assuming that one did like the program) over programs with other good factors that would make general life easier?

Merry Christmas,
Wifty

I think those are all things you have to take into consideration. Someone I talked to while interviewing could never envision living without a car - not being able to 'drive there' would be a big negative for her. She'd probably have to cross of programs in the City off her list. Others can't live in a small town rural frigid environment - places like Rochester MN or Fargo ND. Some people can't live in blue state..or a red state..or whatnot.

Think of it as filling in a jar with stones. You put in the big stones first -- things that are most important to you first, then you use the smaller criteria to fine tune your list (they are the small stones). Let's say on my list I had University of Kentucky, Temple, and Stanford. Let's say my first criterion is that I hate cities - can't stand them - feel they are unsafe. I cross off Temple. Let's say my next criteria is that I want to live somewhere I can buy a house - I cross off Stanford. I'm now left with UK.

It's probably true that people from University programs in general have an easier time with fellowships and people from more prestigious programs have an easier time with fellowships. Think of internal medicine, e.g. IM from UPenn makes getting a GI fellowship easier than IM from podunk community hospital in upstate New York.

For example it seemed like the PGY4s at NYPH (Columbia/Cornell) did get pretty good fellowships (one was going to Cedars Sinai for pain I think) - whether this is because of the Ivy name I don't know. But those may not be the most important criteria for you, it seems and may not be offset by having to live in a major city that may be expensive and somewhat unsafe.

But overall, it's important to go somewhere where you will be happy. Being unappy for 3 (or 4) years is bad and will make you do not-so-well. If you know endless cloudy days will make you unhappy you should think heavily about being in Seattle. If you know driving to 10 spread out sites in heavy suburban traffic over 3 years will make you unhappy you might want to re-think NJ Med. If you know hot and humid summers will zap all strength from you maybe Houston isn't the best place for you..so on and so forth.

Happy Xmas.

 

[drusso]

Something to consider is alumni connections: I underestimated the importance of this when I was on the trail. Basically, the older and more established a residency program is (and I suppose it is also a function of size) the more graduates they have in practice. It's usually about 5-8 after finishing residency that physicians have matured their practice to a point that they consider bringing on new partners and associates. It is only natural for them to contact their old residency program and ask for contacts with "bright young residents looking for a good job." As you can imagine, a graduate from your own program will likely be more straightforward in dealing with you than a recruiter or non-graduate since they want to keep a good reputation.

 

[AviatorDoc]

There ain't nuttin' wrong with Columbia, MO. Its not a big-name place in pm&r, but there are very good, quality attendings there. You'll get a good education. The residents there were hard-pressed to come up with something they really hated about the program. Plus... at least its not Kirksville!!!

If you're looking for a general PM&R job right out of residency, you could go to the most podunk program in the country, and not have any problems. PM&R is just in so much demand right now.

Now, academia and/or fellowships may be a different story.

 

[axm397]

If you're an excellent physiatrist, you will be able to get a job and/or fellowship regardless of where you did residency. However, a big name can only help. I echo Drusso's sentiments about the alumni network. That is KEY. Talking to the PGY4s, many of the unadvertised job opprotunities came from recent grads. It also helps to have letters of recommendations from "name" ppl in the field. (for fellowships or jobs) There are usually more "name" ppl at bigger "name" programs. The location may also matter - if you want a job in Missouri, it may be wiser to stay in Missouri for training since you will be able to make contacts more easily.


But the bottomline is that it really has to do with your values and what you think is most important in your life. You may have family situations and other personal reasons which will weigh more heavily in your decision making than other reasons. It's important to be happy for 3-4 years but some ppl may say it's ONLY 3-4 yrs, its worth it for the "name". So it really comes down to your own personal value system and preference.

You're also risking the chance that a "name" program may lose it's "name" in the next years to decade. Is that something to consider? What about so-called "up and coming" programs? Is there a guarantee that those programs will indeed become a "name" in the field within your training period? All things to consider.

I personally considered name, location, atmosphere(would I fit in?), alumni network, opportinities within the program, and longevity of the program reputation when I ranked my programs.

 

[joseppi]

Going to a "name program" for prestige or image has never been a top priority for me. I am only a applicant for this year for what its worth. I personally want to go somewhere were I feel I fit in, the residents, ancillary staff, faculty seem happy. This will create your work environment for the next three-four years. The way i figure it, if you are compromising happiness in a program for some other asthetic reason, ultimately your education is hampered. ie, If you are miserable, don't want to be there your effort will be minimal, low moral and hence learning is impaired.... It's probably impossible to find that ultimate, perfect program that has every single thing you have listed as a priority but the idea is to find one the fits the closest. I want a well-rounded program the is balanced b/c you never know in three years how you may like some other aspect. I don't want to live in the south or midwest... personal opinion only. For example SCI may be your calling, but instead you chose a program that is very stong outpt with a not so stong training in SCI. Most people want to do outpt, me included.... but then you never know what the future may hold!!! You also have to pass boards which focuses on everything, so I like exposure to all aspects, structure and descent didactics. Sometimes these things are hard to tell on a snap shot interview day when everyone is on their best behavior. It seems gut intinct is the only thing that will guide you, also being careful on one person's antedotal opinion. (hard to judge when you don't even know the source) Go by your own priorities and researching the program to see what they offer.

 

[Wifty]

Thank you for all the input!

Its my hubby that is currently interviewing for a PM&R spot. We have always felt that being in a place that is a 'fit' is much more important then so-called prestige places/things. To us, prestige comes from doing a job well.....and that can often be seen no matter the college, med school, residency program, etc.

However, as a wife, I just wanted to make sure that he wasn't maybe going to make a choice based too much on family (mostly me) concerns and passing up potentially something that he would not only enjoy, but might truely benefit him in other ways.

Your replys really helped with my understanding of what is important residency-wise.

Thank you!
Happy New Year!!
With smiles,
Wifty