How many papers are necessary for medical students?

[_NM_]

I know this varies greatly by specialty, but I was wondering if anyone had any insight on how many papers medical students should have in order to be competitive for residency?

I have 3 but my highest authorship is 2nd. Two of the journals have a good impact factor and the other paper id a low impact factor journal. I have no idea what I want to do so I’m hesitant to get involved in more research until I have a better idea of what I want to do.

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[AnatomyGrey12]

Depends on the residency. Take note that the number in Charting Outcomes for research outcomes includes posters and abstracts too, so just because ortho says 15 outcomes that doesn't mean 15 publications (I made that number up, I am too lazy to go look at the specific number for ortho). In my experience the competitive applicants for the competitive specialties have about 5-6 actual publications with a healthy number of abstracts and posters too. Some people are just on another level and have like 30 pubs, but that's not necessary for any specialty.

 

[_NM_]

Depends on the residency. Take note that the number in Charting Outcomes for research outcomes includes posters and abstracts too, so just because ortho says 15 outcomes that doesn't mean 15 publications (I made that number up, I am too lazy to go look at the specific number for ortho). In my experience the competitive applicants for the competitive specialties have about 5-6 actual publications with a healthy number of abstracts and posters too. Some people are just on another level and have like 30 pubs, but that's not necessary for any specialty.

Thank you!

 

[907914]

Depends on the residency. Take note that the number in Charting Outcomes for research outcomes includes posters and abstracts too, so just because ortho says 15 outcomes that doesn't mean 15 publications (I made that number up, I am too lazy to go look at the specific number for ortho). In my experience the competitive applicants for the competitive specialties have about 5-6 actual publications with a healthy number of abstracts and posters too. Some people are just on another level and have like 30 pubs, but that's not necessary for any specialty.

Do people include undergraduate publications, posters, presentations, and/or abstracts when filling out ERAS?

 

[NotaCop]

Do people include undergraduate publications, posters, presentations, and/or abstracts when filling out ERAS?

This is certainly acceptable, a pub is a pub. You may choose to omit them if they are completely irreleveant though and want to focus your list on the more relevant stuff you did in med school (for the posters/abstracts, for pubs just include them all always). Essentially, there’s no expectation to chop them off your CV like there is with high school stuff for med school applications, but you’re free to do so if you think it beneficial to

 

[Ludwig2000]

I know this varies greatly by specialty, but I was wondering if anyone had any insight on how many papers medical students should have in order to be competitive for residency?

I have 3 but my highest authorship is 2nd. Two of the journals have a good impact factor and the other paper id a low impact factor journal. I have no idea what I want to do so I’m hesitant to get involved in more research until I have a better idea of what I want to do.

Just curious, what do people consider a good impact factor vs a low impact factor?

I imagine it varies by specialty and also of course the IF is an imperfect measure and yada yada, but let’s just paint with a broad brush here.

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

Depends on specialty. Average for Ortho is 7 “experiences” ... which can be posters, abstracts, pubs.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Basically I would say that if the research seems interesting then do it; if it doesn't don't. Research will always help a residency app, but there are other things you could be doing that could also help.

Do people include undergraduate publications, posters, presentations, and/or abstracts when filling out ERAS?

Publications, absolutely. Same for national/regional posters/presentations. These things never expire and can be listed as long as you care to do so.

Personally, I think it looks a little like padding to include "University of X Undergraduate Poster Day" from sophomore year of undergrad as a presentation for your residency application, but you wouldn't be the only one to do so.

Just curious, what do people consider a good impact factor vs a low impact factor?

I imagine it varies by specialty and also of course the IF is an imperfect measure and yada yada, but let’s just paint with a broad brush here.

I'd honestly say impact factor is almost irrelevant for residency apps. Obviously if you're publishing in a 10+ impact factor journal that's even more impressive, but any pub is impressive for a residency app because it shows you had the initiative to actually follow through a research project from start to finish. And if you did manage to publish in a high impact journal, we all know that likely has more to do with your PI than because you personally came up with a novel idea or finding.

 

[stickgirl390]

Can a poster and an abstract for the same project count as 2?

 

[NotaCop]

Can a poster and an abstract for the same project count as 2?

Is the abstract published in a journal supplement?

If so, YES include the citation separately from the poster.

If not, NO do not include as the poster supersedes.

This is assuming the abstract is what you submitted that the poster then came out of.

(My opinion only, and will of course vary by field/person/etc)

 

[davidxavi]

Can a poster and an abstract for the same project count as 2?

Were these submitted individually? Then yes, you can list them separately.

Often, a conference will select your abstract for poster presentation and publish the abstract in a journal supplement. I would think of it as one per submission.

 

[_NM_]

Thanks for all the input. Right now I’m just wondering if it’ll hurt me to not get involved in research until after my second year (after I take Step 1).

 

[kinjin24]

Talked to the IR PD and assistant PD at my school. They said that research in med school means nothing to them. All it says that you can be someone’s b***h, instead they both said focus on step because they have a 240 cutoff he said. And it’s a hard no exception cutoff

 

[stickgirl390]

I don’t understand how people find the time in med school to get these research numbers up to 7-15. I did my school’s summer research program after M1 and only ended up with one poster and one abstract. From here until graduation it seems like my schedule is always full!

 

[doyouhaveaflag]

I don’t understand how people find the time in med school to get these research numbers up to 7-15. I did my school’s summer research program after M1 and only ended up with one poster and one abstract. From here until graduation it seems like my schedule is always full!

It's a combination of luck, choosing the right PI, and being willing to accept a decrease in life outside med school and/or sleep.

I intentionally chose a PI that was hugely productive and put out many pubs per year. He's one of these people that will be talking about something and then get a look and say "huh that would be interesting to look at" and viola, another research project.

The luck part has to do with getting in at the right time when some projects are near completion and your PI being willing to put your name on them with a low threshold. There was one basic science paper that was essentially written when I got it but I ended up rewriting a lot of it because I was the only one on the project whose first language was English. Took only a day and I'm second to last author, but it's a basic science pub in the second highest impact journal in the field.

You also have to focus on clinical research if raw number of pubs is your goal. I wrote two papers just mining data from a surgical database and did them in the summer between M1 and M2. I also wrote a review article (so painful) during M2 (had no life or sleep those couple weeks) and a case report during psych rotation M3 (don't recommend case reports, they are very hard to get published). Four first author papers right there.

As for all the bench work I did 10 hours a day in the lab summer between M1 and M2? Still no pubs from that five years later. It went on ERAS as an "experience" or something.

 

[NotaCop]

I don’t understand how people find the time in med school to get these research numbers up to 7-15. I did my school’s summer research program after M1 and only ended up with one poster and one abstract. From here until graduation it seems like my schedule is always full!

There’s always time if you make time.

I took a hit on grades and step scores to allow myself a deep dive into research during those three years.

Was this a smart decision from an ERAS perspective? Certainly not. The research does not even come close to overshadowing the lower step score.

Was this a smart decision from a personal and career perspective? For me, absolutely. I want to be an academic physician and have gone from zero research experience to feeling fairly confident and comfortable in a relatively short time frame, all the while becoming more well rounded and getting closer to actually being the person I wanted to someday be.

If you just want to buff ERAS, be strategic and find the minimal effort way to add CV lines. If you want to improve yourself overall, don’t be afraid to dive in. Sure, you might make life harder for yourself, but maybe in the end it’ll be worth it.

Just my 2c

 

[Dwan]

I don’t understand how people find the time in med school to get these research numbers up to 7-15. I did my school’s summer research program after M1 and only ended up with one poster and one abstract. From here until graduation it seems like my schedule is always full!

Most of those numbers aren't legit. I know many people who counted the same project in many categories, and listed tons of "presentations" including ones done at school, for research track, etc. and counting things like conference abstracts as both a poster and a publication.

 

[JooceMan137]

Thankfully after I killed Step 1 (263), I decided to aim for high/top tier IM programs. At first I just wanted any IM program in the Chicago area. My goal right now is to kill my rotations, but I anticipate nothing remarkable (let's say average evals, H shelfs). I'm sort of freaking out now because I don't have any pubs and have no idea where to begin.

Any advice?

 

[GoSpursGo]

Thankfully after I killed Step 1 (263), I decided to aim for high/top tier IM programs. At first I just wanted any IM program in the Chicago area. My goal right now is to kill my rotations, but I anticipate nothing remarkable (let's say average evals, H shelfs). I'm sort of freaking out now because I don't have any pubs and have no idea where to begin.

Any advice?

Talk to the chair or PD of your home IM program and let them know you're interested in helping on some research. They generally know who to refer eager students to.

From there, it's just a matter of deciding that you want to make this a priority and sacrificing some sleep or socializing to churn these things out. Retrospective chart reviews aren't terribly hard, it's just a matter of putting in the time.

 

[JooceMan137]

Talk to the chair or PD of your home IM program and let them know you're interested in helping on some research. They generally know who to refer eager students to.

From there, it's just a matter of deciding that you want to make this a priority and sacrificing some sleep or socializing to churn these things out. Retrospective chart reviews aren't terribly hard, it's just a matter of putting in the time.

I really appreciate the advice! Just to clarify, by "home IM program" do you mean the school I attend, or the IM program at institutions back home where i'm originally from (and want to match in).

 

[NickNaylor]

I really appreciate the advice! Just to clarify, by "home IM program" do you mean the school I attend, or the IM program at institutions back home where i'm originally from (and want to match in).

At your current institution (medical school).