How many people actually want to go to DO school?

Discover Your Odds of Getting into Medical School
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drizzt3117 said:
First of all:

1) ACGME residencies > non-ACGME residencies in essentially all cases

2) DOs are at a significant disadvantage applying to ACGME residencies in competitive specialties.

3) This is especially true for the top program. There is one DO resident out of the 800 at the top 20 rads programs and the number is just as small or smaller in the surgical sub-specs, etc.

4) DO is a viable option for many fields like primary care, EM, OB. anesthesia etc.
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This is undeniable.

As a future family medicine doctor, however, it doesn't impact me. I doubt, as well, doing FM at an ivory tower will make me a better clinician than doing it at a community program.

In my instance, at least, you have a great deal of leverage of where you can go, granted you have the stats to back yourself up. Also, the ability to apply to less than 10 programs allows me to be more critical of the programs I'm looking at rather than casting a net across the entire residency list for ENT or Optho (which I'd undoubtedly have to apply for in the AOA match).
 
Bacchus said:
This is undeniable.

As a future family medicine doctor, however, it doesn't impact me. I doubt, as well, doing FM at an ivory tower will make me a better clinician than doing it at a community program.

In my instance, at least, you have a great deal of leverage of where you can go, granted you have the stats to back yourself up. Also, the ability to apply to less than 10 programs allows me to be more critical of the programs I'm looking at rather than casting a net across the entire residency list for ENT or Optho (which I'd undoubtedly have to apply for in the AOA match).
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I have to agree with this as well. IMO the MDvsDO thing extends no further (in relevance) than the ability to match a specialty. But honestly, as someone who wants gen surg, I don't really care if I dont get some crazy competitive top-notch program.
 
Hemorrage said:
How do DO schools outshine MD schools in primary care? Last time I checked MSUCOM was the closest to the top on USNEWs and that's spot #17
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Pretty sure saying "I trained at the top osteopathic family medicine program" is not equivalent to saying I trained at Hopkins, Stanford, etc.

No one really gives a flying leap, anyway. I'd be interested to hear if it impacts things such as salary negotations, sign on bonuses or other perks as a newly minted attending.
 
Tummytroubles said:
The DO school I want to attend is ranked higher than the MD schools in my area for Primary care. So yes, for me this is true. This is confirmed by the DOs I shadowed from their experiences.
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I know personal attacks are against TOS, but this guy is a ****ing idiot.
I'm sorry. Needs to be said. The logical fallacies in this post are absurd.
 
SpecterGT260 said:
I have to agree with this as well. IMO the MDvsDO thing extends no further (in relevance) than the ability to match a specialty. But honestly, as someone who wants gen surg, I don't really care if I dont get some crazy competitive top-notch program.
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You'll probably be better off 😉. I liked my time at Christiana in Wilmington, DE if you're taking suggestions for potential future residencies 😛. A lot of insured patients, huge community hospital. Can't say much for the area though.
 
Hemorrage said:
DOs are underrepresented to begin with. IMO I don't see why including the AOA match is bad- both NRMP and AOA programs produce specialists in a particular field. Granted NRMP training is usually better especially at academic powerhouses, most MD and DO students will not end up in those spots anyway. In the end, a general surgeon that went through AOA is just as qualified as a general surgeon who went though NRMP
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which is why i said "per capita". What you are doing in making your comparison is using a per capita comparison for DOs while including AOA which is obviously heavily skewed towards DOs since no MDs are allowed in. If you look at the NRMP match data alone and follow what i said (which is to only look at DOs and where they go, not including % of seats filled but % DO in xxx specialty compared to total # DOs) you will see a heavy trend towards PCPs.

Tummytroubles said:
DO schools do have lower stats but you can't make broad assumptions. When I apply to residency from my DO schools, if I have similar stats to a MD, I don't want them unfairly holding it against me for going into DO. You can't make broad assumptions about DO students. I should be able to choose the best school for the field I want to go into without having to worry about discrimination or people automatically assuming I had low grades and MCAT scores.

Many DO schools are better at training primary care phiscans than a lot of MD schools. It's stupid that people have to go a lesser school for their field simply because someone may discriminate against the letters behind their name if they go to the better school.

, Patients won't know the difference and my goal is to be the best primary care doc I can be and many DO schools outshine a lot of MD schools in this field.
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I cant tell if you are talking in theory or practice. In practice, yes you will have DO held against you in ACGME residencies (and this increases as you get to more competitive fields). The PD survey gives data on what % of programs in each specialty lists "Attended a US MD school" as exclusion criteria for interview. Sorry bro, but that is the state of the world at the moment.
 
Bacchus said:
You could find a better word than resigned.
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in that poster's case the implication seemed to be that he didn't want to wait a year for his state school MD, and his stats are ok but as a whole 3.5/33 is still only ~60% acceptance.

that being said, i agree that was a poor choice of phrasing as it relies on my own assumptions,"decided" would have been a better neutral word. my apologies.
 
As long as you are board certified in your field, DO and MD are paid the same.
 
Bottom line

US MD > DO >>>>>>> Foreign MD

That is going to hold true for 90%+ of all people.
 
notbobtrustme said:
Bottom line

US MD > DO >>>>>>> Foreign MD

That is going to hold true for 90%+ of all people.
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This is too simplified. In terms of keeping doors open to certain opportunities this is true. In term of quality of the clinician, this can be far from true and possibly even worthless.
 
MiracleforMD said:
I know personal attacks are against TOS, but this guy is a ****ing idiot.
I'm sorry. Needs to be said. The logical fallacies in this post are absurd.
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Ok, I looked it up and I was misinformed by someone I shadowed. He was wrong about the rankings. Why not just correct me instead of insulting me. 🙄


In the end. The DO school I want to attend is the area I want to go to school in, I know from shadowing people they produce good family care docs, and it's cheaper than many private MD schools.

You went the Med route great, I could go that route but the debt load from a pricy out of state MD school is probably not a good idea since I want to go into family care.
 
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Tummytroubles said:
Ok, I looked it up and I was misinformed by someone I shadowed. He was wrong about the rankings. Why not just correct me instead of insulting me. 🙄


In the end. The DO school I want to attend is the area I want to go to school in, I know from shadowing people they produce good family care docs, and it's cheaper than many private MD schools.

You went the Med route great, I could go that route but the debt load from a pricy out of state MD school is probably not a good idea since I want to go into family care.
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The bolded is fine. No one is taking issue with your choice. It's the overall "reasons" for your choice that you and many others claim. It's horse****. 95% of DOs would rather go MD, but either did not have the stats or had some compelling financial/geographic reason to attend the DO. That is all fine and well, but let's call a spade a spade.

And I have not gone any route yet. This will be my second year applying and my worse case scenario will be going to a DO. But you are not going to see me in 3 years talking about the "whole patient" and our superior primary care. I will be like the DO student poster willen who acknowledges the actual reasons how he ended up attending a DO school. I will then bust my ass in years 1 and 2, and studying for COMLEX and USMLE and evaluate what I might be able to match in the NRMP. I don't live in fantasy world where I think it's worth any time to argue over who is better. MD's opportunities in medical school, residency, and employment are undeniably better than DOs. Whatever the causes of this or whether it's fair, is god damn irrelevant. You make decisions in life based on how things are and not what your delusional classmates think is "fair." Life is not fair. Life is about managing risk. Going to an allopathic MD school in 99 times out of 100 is the less risky move.
 
Ever heard of nhsc?

Tummytroubles said:
Ok, I looked it up and I was misinformed by someone I shadowed. He was wrong about the rankings. Why not just correct me instead of insulting me. 🙄


In the end. The DO school I want to attend is the area I want to go to school in, I know from shadowing people they produce good family care docs, and it's cheaper than many private MD schools.

You went the Med route great, I could go that route but the debt load from a pricy out of state MD school is probably not a good idea since I want to go into family care.
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tima said:
As long as you are board certified in your field, DO and MD are paid the same.
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Coming from the same residency program, this is probably true. However, premier, high-paying private practices often recruit from top residencies. And these can be quite difficult to come by as a DO,
 
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Your example talks about the salary of a recently graduated attending where the residency might make a difference. What about a DO and MD attending with 10 years of experience hired by the same hospital? Do you think salary would be same?

thesauce said:
Coming from the same residency program, this is probably true. However, premier, high-paying private practices often recruit from top residencies programs. And these can be quite difficult to come by as a DO,
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tima said:
Your example talks about the salary of a recently graduated attending where the residency might make a difference. What about a DO and MD attending with 10 years of experience hired by the same hospital? Do you think salary would be same?
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Yes, the salary is not the issue. It's getting the offer.
 
MiracleforMD said:
This is too simplified. In terms of keeping doors open to certain opportunities this is true. In term of quality of the clinician, this can be far from true and possibly even worthless.
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true, med school is what you make of it, but being at any MD school puts you at least two steps ahead of any DO school. That's just how it is.
 
tima said:
Your example talks about the salary of a recently graduated attending where the residency might make a difference. What about a DO and MD attending with 10 years of experience hired by the same hospital? Do you think salary would be same?
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The ideal (for both the doc and the practice) is not to jump around, but for the doc to be recruited out of residency and to settle into one practice for a career. And at least for radonc, you typically don't want to be employed by a hospital.

If two docs, one MD and one DO both found themselves unemployed at 10 years after residency, then their experience in those 10 years will be the focus of their consideration for employment. The degree is unlikely to matter.
 
Thanks, I see your point. The job experience over the 10 years will count in that hypothetical situation.


thesauce said:
The ideal (for both the doc and the practice) is not to jump around, but for the doc to be recruited out of residency and to settle into one practice for a career. And at least for radonc, you typically don't want to be employed by a hospital.

If two docs, one MD and one DO both found themselves unemployed at 10 years after residency, then their experience in those 10 years will be the focus of their consideration for employment. The degree is unlikely to matter.
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If one's career objective (i.e. "mine") is to become a psychiatrist and start an outpatient practice, do you folks think that holding the D.O. degree would be disadvantageous, vs. an M.D.?
 
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I heard the hotter girls are in DO school because they partied a little too hard during undergrad... ;-)
 
SpecterGT260 said:
I hope you're being sarcastic....
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You've been brainwashed by allopathic propaganda. The only reason to go MD is if you don't want to treat the whole patient. Also, MDs are socially inept and only care about grades. DOs actually know how to talk to and take care of patients.
 
sliceofbread136 said:
You've been brainwashed by allopathic propaganda. The only reason to go MD is if you don't want to treat the whole patient. Also, MDs are socially inept and only care about grades. DOs actually know how to talk to and take care of patients.
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Lol allopathic propaganda brainwash? plz.....
 
fingerscrossedd said:
OP, this is a valid thread and you shouldn't ever hesitate about asking questions on SDN. To this guy^, it's overwhelmingly evident that SDN has tragically devolved into a collection of "omg this has already been asked a million times so go away or search or...just plain leave." With the mission of eliminating redundancy posed ostensibly as your purpose, do you find it hypocritical at all to consistently retort with "this has already been covered"? I would argue that THIS response has, too, been covered countless times. So how about this: if you think the posted question has already been covered, maybe, just maybe, choose not to respond to it. Who's forcing you to reply? Who made it your paralyzingly painful prerogative to just HAVE to respond to all redundant posts? Lay off. SDN is rapdily crumbling at the hands of members refusing to contribute anything significant to this forum. There's a lot more I could say, but I'll hold off - at the expense of being redundant.
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No, it's not. It's better than ever.
 
Don't want to rustle any jimmies.
 
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sliceofbread136 said:
You've been brainwashed by allopathic propaganda. The only reason to go MD is if you don't want to treat the whole patient. Also, MDs are socially inept and only care about grades. DOs actually know how to talk to and take care of patients.
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I've actually heard these statements used in a serious manner. 2 years ago a guy I knew in undergrad and was facebook friends with proclaimed (via facebook) that he had decided to pursue DO instead of MD because he agreed more with their philosophy, they actually listen to patients, etc.

As an allopathic student let me tell you that there wasn't a patient care class lecture that didn't have some variant of "if you listen to your patient they will tell you the diagnosis."
 
How does treat the patient as a whole make sense? What is the DO doing differently than MD?
 
dr zaius said:
I've actually heard these statements used in a serious manner. 2 years ago a guy I knew in undergrad and was facebook friends with proclaimed (via facebook) that he had decided to pursue DO instead of MD because he agreed more with their philosophy, they actually listen to patients, etc.

As an allopathic student let me tell you that there wasn't a patient care class lecture that didn't have some variant of "if you listen to your patient they will tell you the diagnosis."
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your profs must be drinking from DO kool-aid, man, because all i ever learn are the most effective ways to shut the patients up and focus on a single diagnosis through the most expensive workup possible
 
SourD21 said:
Lol allopathic propaganda brainwash? plz.....
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Yet another delusional allopathic believer. Why would you think only treating part of the patient is beneficial? You may get your A in o-chem, but the DOs are the ones who can actually talk to their patients. Ask yourself who will be the better doctor?
 
sliceofbread136 said:
Yet another delusional allopathic believer. Why would you think only treating part of the patient is beneficial? You may get your A in o-chem, but the DOs are the ones who can actually talk to their patients. Ask yourself who will be the better doctor?
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u mad bro? facts are facts: it's easier to get into DO school than MD school...interpret that however you will
 
SourD21 said:
u mad bro? facts are facts: it's easier to get into DO school than MD school...interpret that however you will
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Facts are facts: DOs treat the whole patient, not just part of them. Another fact is that MDs lack communication skills because all they do is study so they can brag about how smart they are. DOs actually focus on being good doctors.
 
Fivo said:
Don't want to rustle any jimmies.
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jimmies-rustle-softly.jpg
 
dont DOs make more money than MDs in Primary care fields..like FM becacuse of "private" OMT practices..

considering that new health care reforms are being imposed ....in particular a resurgence toward having a family doctor and health prevention...and a drop off of comp residence spots

and the MASSIVE expansion of DO schools to meet this demand...


it might be a shift or just coincidences...(i worked at a company that looked at relationships...be it real or not...lol)

but the field is deff not dead...

iam one for a name change however...both for the patients sake and the physicians
 
Come on you guys... Can't we just all get along?
 
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