How many SDNers are electing DO as #1 choice

[DO Anes]

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Did you take USMLE firrst and then COMLEX? Even though you go to DO school, you are well prepared for both exams, right? If you were to go for the primary care specialties like FM, IM and PED, you don't probably need to take USMLE?

20+ years ago. USMLE was not an option at that time. Today, USMLE is desirable regardless of specialty choice, but more important for competitive fields/programs.

 

[DO Anes]

Also curious about this...

Is it acceptable to score very well on the USMLE and only fairly on the COMLEX? Do residency directors see both scores? Did you spend more time studying for either one?

Oh, and I know research options are generally limited for osteopathic medical students. Where is research on the pecking order of importance for gas?

Yes. USMLE basically eliminates the COMLEX. We frequently see and rank applicants with good USMLE scores and poor COMLEX. They tell us they spent their time studying for the USMLE. Research helps, but not crucial.

 

[SeminoleVesicle]

Yes. USMLE basically eliminates the COMLEX. We frequently see and rank applicants with good USMLE scores and poor COMLEX. They tell us they spent their time studying for the USMLE. Research helps, but not crucial.

Fantastic, thanks for your wisdom. Gonna formulate me a strategy.

 

[WaterDragon]

20+ years ago. USMLE was not an option at that time. Today, USMLE is desirable regardless of specialty choice, but more important for competitive fields/programs.

Whenver people are saying of the competitive fields, what kinds of practices are they exactly referring to? Are they any field outside of the primary care fields like FM, IM and PED? So, what you are saying is that you don't probably need to take USMLE for FM, IM and PED?

Also, any DO school's curriculum can help DO students prepare for both boards, right?

Thanks for taking time to answer these!

 

[Dissected]

Whenver people are saying of the competitive fields, what kinds of practices are they exactly referring to? Are they any field outside of the primary care fields like FM, IM and PED? So, what you are saying is that you don't probably need to take USMLE for FM, IM and PED?

Also, any DO school's curriculum can help DO students prepare for both boards, right?

Thanks for taking time to answer these!

You can be ready for both with a DO curriculum. Do well in your classes and study really hard on your own at the end of 2nd year and you can be ready.

FM/Peds, I would venture to say that at most programs you're fairly safe to have just COMLEX. But it would open some doors for you if you had a solid USMLE.

IM...I would take the USMLE. A fair amount of programs want it and you don't want to close any doors.

Keep in mind -- VERY few students know 100% what they want to specialize in going into 3rd year. The reason everyone says 'take the USMLE' is because you will want to have options. Don't limit yourself!

 

[dntke1518]

Whenver people are saying of the competitive fields, what kinds of practices are they exactly referring to? Are they any field outside of the primary care fields like FM, IM and PED? So, what you are saying is that you don't probably need to take USMLE for FM, IM and PED?

Also, any DO school's curriculum can help DO students prepare for both boards, right?

Thanks for taking time to answer these!

Yes DO cirriculum should prepare us for both.

When people are talking about competitive fields they are talking about Gas, Urology, Optho, Ortho, ect... not primary care. So there are usually plenty of spots for primary care within the AOA match.

 

[WaterDragon]

You can be ready for both with a DO curriculum. Do well in your classes and study really hard on your own at the end of 2nd year and you can be ready.

FM/Peds, I would venture to say that at most programs you're fairly safe to have just COMLEX. But it would open some doors for you if you had a solid USMLE.

IM...I would take the USMLE. A fair amount of programs want it and you don't want to close any doors.

Keep in mind -- VERY few students know 100% what they want to specialize in going into 3rd year. The reason everyone says 'take the USMLE' is because you will want to have options. Don't limit yourself!

Thanks for your response. Is emergency medicine a part of primary care field?

Yes DO cirriculum should prepare us for both.

When people are talking about competitive fields they are talking about Gas, Urology, Optho, Ortho, ect... not primary care. So there are usually plenty of spots for primary care within the AOA match.

Gotcha

 

[cliquesh]

Thanks for your response. Is emergency medicine a part of primary care field?

No, its not (generally) considered primary care. It is pretty DO friendly and there are plenty of good AOA EM residencies. I would, however, still take the USMLE for EM. It will, as many have already mentioned, open up more doors.

 

[dntke1518]

No, its not (generally) considered primary care. It is pretty DO friendly and there are plenty of good AOA EM residencies. I would, however, still take the USMLE for EM. It will, as many have already mentioned, open up more doors.

As far as doors are you talking more choice of location or better residencies? I am interested in EM and was wondering how the AOA EM residencies stacked up (not really considering location)

 

[cliquesh]

As far as doors are you talking more choice of location or better residencies? I am interested in EM and was wondering how the AOA EM residencies stacked up (not really considering location)

There are a few AOA programs at trauma 1 centers that have high volumes, so I'd imagine that the training at these programs is pretty good. There are simply more quality ACGME programs.

You don't have to crush the USMLE or anything if you are applying to EM. You just have to take the test and do about average for the speciality. There isn't a huge DO bias at most mid-level programs and that is true for most specialities (except derm and surgical specialities). They just want to see the usmle.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

No, its not (generally) considered primary care. It is pretty DO friendly and there are plenty of good AOA EM residencies. I would, however, still take the USMLE for EM. It will, as many have already mentioned, open up more doors.

AOA EM is also a year longer than most ACGME programs.

 

[docmayer]

As far as doors are you talking more choice of location or better residencies? I am interested in EM and was wondering how the AOA EM residencies stacked up (not really considering location)

I'm curious of this as well.

 

[willen101383]

I'm curious of this as well.

We have a PCOM program at einstein which is dually accredited and sees more penetrating trauma cases than any other hospital in the city. Its a 701 bed facility. I hear the residents arent treated that well. I plan on rotating here in a few months for an EM elective...ill keep yall posted. You are def going to get some interesting pathology at that place for sure. This is def one of my top choices if I am going to stay in philly (most likely if possible).

 

[NurWollen]

AOA EM is also a year longer than most ACGME programs.

Interesting. I wonder why. If the program is at a smaller hospital, I'm sure an extra year could be beneficial, though I doubt that's the reason behind it.

 

[cliquesh]

Interesting. I wonder why. If the program is at a smaller hospital, I'm sure an extra year could be beneficial, though I doubt that's the reason behind it.

ACGME EM residencies can be 3 or 4 years. Most of them were 4 years at one point. All AOA EM are 4 years.

 

[p1acebo]

We have a PCOM program at einstein which is dually accredited and sees more penetrating trauma cases than any other hospital in the city. Its a 701 bed facility. I hear the residents arent treated that well. I plan on rotating here in a few months for an EM elective...ill keep yall posted. You are def going to get some interesting pathology at that place for sure. This is def one of my top choices if I am going to stay in philly (most likely if possible).

I actually was thinking about doing a guest rotation at Einstein's EM, but I am not at PCOM. Do you know how popular it is for out of state students from different programs to do this?

 

[FrkyBgStok]

Interesting. I wonder why. If the program is at a smaller hospital, I'm sure an extra year could be beneficial, though I doubt that's the reason behind it.

I am premed so this is what I gather, but I could be way off, so take it with a grain of salt.

Generally, all AOA residencies are a year longer for every specialty because of the required osteopathic intern year. MD residencies incorporate it, but DOs don't. A med student told me that it was basically a repeat of fourth year. I think some programs get around this by offering a dually accredited program for both ACGME and AOA however they just never take MD students. I have no sources but the hospital I worked at had a surgical residency program the was dually accredited, full of DOs only, and only 5 years, but DO students tell me that the traditional internship adds a year.


Sent from my Droid2 using my thumbs.

 

[Dissected]

I am premed so this is what I gather, but I could be way off, so take it with a grain of salt.

Generally, all AOA residencies are a year longer for every specialty because of the required osteopathic intern year. MD residencies incorporate it, but DOs don't. A med student told me that it was basically a repeat of fourth year. I think some programs get around this by offering a dually accredited program for both ACGME and AOA however they just never take MD students. I have no sources but the hospital I worked at had a surgical residency program the was dually accredited, full of DOs only, and only 5 years, but DO students tell me that the traditional internship adds a year.


Sent from my Droid2 using my thumbs.

Meh, not really the case any more. Most AOA intern years are incorporated into programs now. It used to be pretty universal not that long ago though.

Of note, some fields like radiology, ophthalmology and anesthesiology require a transitional year in family med or surgery before you begin. I may only be speaking for ACGME programs though..I can't be certain about AOA programs because I have never met anyone who has done one and I haven't researched them at all. I think they do this as well though.

 

[willen101383]

I actually was thinking about doing a guest rotation at Einstein's EM, but I am not at PCOM. Do you know how popular it is for out of state students from different programs to do this?

Not sure how popular it is at that hospital, but since EM isnt a core, and is a elective you can rotate anywhere you want generally! Its a massive hospital and im pumped about the prospect of rotating through that ER (and I live practically walking distance..just out in the burbs past north philly). But since its the closest hospital to the knife and gun club areas they get a lot of cool cases.

 

[SoulinNeed]

I am premed so this is what I gather, but I could be way off, so take it with a grain of salt.

Generally, all AOA residencies are a year longer for every specialty because of the required osteopathic intern year. MD residencies incorporate it, but DOs don't. A med student told me that it was basically a repeat of fourth year. I think some programs get around this by offering a dually accredited program for both ACGME and AOA however they just never take MD students. I have no sources but the hospital I worked at had a surgical residency program the was dually accredited, full of DOs only, and only 5 years, but DO students tell me that the traditional internship adds a year.


Sent from my Droid2 using my thumbs.

I thought most DO residencies now incorporate that year, except for EM.

 

[GraceEuphoria]

On the original topic posted....I initially researched DO because I had some rough patches in undergrad. Once I researched more and more, I realized it was a good fit. People can say what they what, but it's true. I honestly would not have wanted to attend my state school if they'd let me. The attitude and vibe of the admin there was such a turn off and while that may not be that important to some, having to deal with that for 4 years was not to appealing. This is a very important time, it's the foundation of our training, and I prefer the family type atmosphere I have where I am.

As far as the clinical training goes, I still don't really understand people's comments about small hospital training. Maybe other schools are different than ours (DO ones that is), but we only have about 1/2 of our schedule set with core rotations and others, with an emphasis on rural and community hospitals during that (unless you choose the larger city sites, in which case you may not be in the GME programs necessarily, but you see all these zebras that everyone is so anxious to see...despite the fact that they may never see them again...). However, the other 11 months or so is open to anything really....so those other slots can be done, and often ARE done, at academic hospitals. Anyone who argues the hands-on approach isn't a fantastic thing is nuts...the stories of what the 3rd and 4th years get to do (and the number of times they get to do it, and are required to do prior to graduating) is usually pretty impressive.

I don't know...I hate that people think it's so crazy to prefer osteopathic training. Even if the average DO doesn't practice the OMM they learn, at my school at least, there is quite an emphasis on how to approach your patient as the whole person. What people do with it is their own business....but I guess I just prefer to be taught the value of touching my patients and using the physical exam to the best of my ability. But then again, I'm just a lowly 2nd year who will surely be overtaken by all the cynicism that seems to dominate and rule every person who posts on here 🙂

 

[sylvanthus]

I think you have swallowed the koolaid a bit. Remember, you stated you researched DO programs because you had screwed up some in undergrad. Would you have done the same if your record was flawless? I highly doubt it. Also, remember, you are a 2nd year. You have yet to experience the ridiculousness that is clinical rotations at some/most DO schools.

 

[GraceEuphoria]

Liking where I am does not = drinking the koolaid...just like the reasons I originally looked into DO do not equate to my experiences in school ultimately being inferior. As I stated previously, I would not have attended my state school even if I had been accepted (mind you, I never applied because I was that turned off by my interaction with them). Oh gee, I'm just saying that because I don't think they would have accepted me? That's for you to think and me to know better than.

As for the clinical rotations...you clearly cover yourself by saying "some/most" but it still leads me to say that you can't speak for all schools. Then again, neither can I. I simply stand by the fact that thus far, our students say great things about their experiences, the preceptors and admin at the core hospitals speak VERY highly of our students and all around, there are very few negative things said. To say that by attending an MD program I would, by default, have a fantastic and perfect experience, or that by attending a DO program, I will clearly have a terrible inferior experience, is just crazy. Perhaps you've had terrible experiences...perhaps you made the wrong choice. It's clear that you're not happy based on the endless number of negative posts you write. But that really doesn't mean everyone feels or will feel the same way you do if they choose DO. Generalizations get us nowhere honestly. Rather than reading rants and bashing of DO education, it'd be nice to read legitimate statements about the inferiority of osteopathic clinical rotations. Examples and stories would be a far better use of people's time than broad comments that may or may not be true or founded in any sort of fact.

 

[HipChick]

I wish there were a like button 😉

 

[Dharma]

Rather than reading rants and bashing of DO education, it'd be nice to read legitimate statements about the inferiority of osteopathic clinical rotations. Examples and stories would be a far better use of people's time than broad comments that may or may not be true or founded in any sort of fact.

👍

 

[sylvanthus]

Liking where I am does not = drinking the koolaid...just like the reasons I originally looked into DO do not equate to my experiences in school ultimately being inferior. As I stated previously, I would not have attended my state school even if I had been accepted (mind you, I never applied because I was that turned off by my interaction with them). Oh gee, I'm just saying that because I don't think they would have accepted me? That's for you to think and me to know better than.

As for the clinical rotations...you clearly cover yourself by saying "some/most" but it still leads me to say that you can't speak for all schools. Then again, neither can I. I simply stand by the fact that thus far, our students say great things about their experiences, the preceptors and admin at the core hospitals speak VERY highly of our students and all around, there are very few negative things said. To say that by attending an MD program I would, by default, have a fantastic and perfect experience, or that by attending a DO program, I will clearly have a terrible inferior experience, is just crazy. Perhaps you've had terrible experiences...perhaps you made the wrong choice. It's clear that you're not happy based on the endless number of negative posts you write. But that really doesn't mean everyone feels or will feel the same way you do if they choose DO. Generalizations get us nowhere honestly. Rather than reading rants and bashing of DO education, it'd be nice to read legitimate statements about the inferiority of osteopathic clinical rotations. Examples and stories would be a far better use of people's time than broad comments that may or may not be true or founded in any sort of fact.

Nice job bypassing my question and then putting words in my mouth. You should be a politician. Did I ever say the above bolded? Anywhere, anytime? Absolutely not. But, it is more likely that the experience will be inferior at a DO school, lets get real here.

Also, you want an example. Very well. I had a nurse as a preceptor on my surgery rotation and did not follow patients either before or after surgery. Another classmate at another site wasn't allowed in the hospital on her OB/GYN rotation to see any births. Where do you think this kind of thing is more common? DO or MD programs? Take a wild guess.

 

[poopyhead]

Rather than reading rants and bashing of DO education, it'd be nice to read legitimate statements about the inferiority of osteopathic clinical rotations. Examples and stories would be a far better use of people's time than broad comments that may or may not be true or founded in any sort of fact.

sylvanthus had a personal example.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=872852

edit: oops..one post too late.

 

[p1acebo]

Nice job bypassing my question and then putting words in my mouth. You should be a politician. Did I ever say the above bolded? Anywhere, anytime? Absolutely not. But, it is more likely that the experience will be inferior at a DO school, lets get real here.

Also, you want an example. Very well. I had a nurse as a preceptor on my surgery rotation and did not follow patients either before or after surgery. Another classmate at another site wasn't allowed in the hospital on her OB/GYN rotation to see any births. Where do you think this kind of thing is more common? DO or MD programs? Take a wild guess.

So what your saying is your program doesn't provide quality clinical experience? Doesn't mean all DO programs function in the same manner, and let's get real here, the opportunities provided by any given program reflect that program... not necessarily all DO or all MD programs. My program provides some of the best clinical experience in the state, and it is a DO program.

If you disagree with GraceEuphoria's reasons for choosing DO over MD then fine, but don't go making blanket comments about how all DO programs are just because yours doesn't provide quality clerkship experience.

 

[GraceEuphoria]

I think you have swallowed the koolaid a bit. Remember, you stated you researched DO programs because you had screwed up some in undergrad. Would you have done the same if your record was flawless? I highly doubt it. Also, remember, you are a 2nd year. You have yet to experience the ridiculousness that is clinical rotations at some/most DO schools.

You're right...you did not say exactly what I previously implied. Osteopathic rotations being inferior is a sentiment among those that bash on the programs and I applied that sentiment to you unfairly. But give that you responded up with what is bolded below....it's hard not to lump you in with the statments I made before, I'm sorry.

Nice job bypassing my question and then putting words in my mouth. You should be a politician. Did I ever say the above bolded? Anywhere, anytime? Absolutely not. But, it is more likely that the experience will be inferior at a DO school, lets get real here.

Also, you want an example. Very well. I had a nurse as a preceptor on my surgery rotation and did not follow patients either before or after surgery. Another classmate at another site wasn't allowed in the hospital on her OB/GYN rotation to see any births. Where do you think this kind of thing is more common? DO or MD programs? Take a wild guess.

I would love for more people to say they have had this experience at DO schools, students OTHER than those that attend YOUR school. I personally have not ever heard of this happening anywhere, DO or MD. If your school was the only one where this happened, then yes, by default, it's more common at DO than MD. I'm not saying it has never happened in any case other than yours, but "let's get real here," you can in no way assert that that is the norm and to be expected to happen. So maybe your school just sucks? I don't know. Our students are not allowed to graduate without completing a certain checklist of procedures and experiences (labor and delivery obviously falling on there) and most students report back delivering on their first day and oftentimes delivering upwards of 25 babies over the 4 weeks. They also work as first assist on surgeries quite often.

So yet again, to the OP, yes, I would choose small hospital opportunities that a DO program (like mine, at least) can provide (and this one of many reasons I would prefer the training I have chosen). With every path comes the good and the bad, so you must simply choose the one that is the best fit for you and understand that no experience if perfect. Each will have flaws but at the end of it all, you're a doctor and that's pretty freakin cool. I didn't post what I did in order to spark any sort of debate, but rather to let you know some people legitimately enjoy taking this path for medical training.

 

[sylvanthus]

So what your saying is your program doesn't provide quality clinical experience? Doesn't mean all DO programs function in the same manner, and let's get real here, the opportunities provided by any given program reflect that program... not necessarily all DO or all MD programs. My program provides some of the best clinical experience in the state, and it is a DO program.

If you disagree with GraceEuphoria's reasons for choosing DO over MD then fine, but don't go making blanket comments about how all DO programs just because yours doesn't provide quality clerkship experience.

Again, some of you really need to learn how to read. Did I ever say ALL DO PROGRAMS!? Seriously, some of you are so deluded that you need to take my comments out of context to try and defend your beloved choice of going to a DO program by making my argument seem more ridiculous than it is.

 

[GraceEuphoria]

After reading through your original post on this surgery rotation/OR nurse thing....I've got to ask. You never mentioned trying to follow the consistent advice to get something done about it. Was the effort to contact administration really so futile that you didn't even bother? Or did you try with no luck?

 

[GraceEuphoria]

Again, some of you really need to learn how to read. Did I ever say ALL DO PROGRAMS!? Seriously, some of you are so deluded that you need to take my comments out of context to try and defend your beloved choice of going to a DO program by making my argument seem more ridiculous than it is.

You may not say ALL programs, but by telling someone they should not choose to attend DO programs because of your experiences with your school is not reasonable. Period. People are going to be defensive not because they're insecure about their decision to attend a DO school but more so because you insist on ruining what could be a very good experience for others based on a few circumstances.

 

[sylvanthus]

The school was aware of it already as the other student at my site had surgery before me and had the same situation.

 

[sylvanthus]

You may not say ALL programs, but by telling someone they should not choose to attend DO programs because of your experiences with your school is not reasonable. Period. People are going to be defensive not because they're insecure about their decision to attend a DO school but more so because you insist on ruining what could be a very good experience for others based on a few circumstances.

If I can ruin a person's medical school experience based upon posts on SDN, then their conviction and faith in their choice was minimal at best.

 

[GraceEuphoria]

The school was aware of it already as the other student at my site had surgery before me and had the same situation.

That's really terrible. I really am sorry you had that experience because you definitely did get shafted in the areas of pre-op and post-op experiences. Did you experience a lot of issues with your pre-clinical years too? I can't say I know much about your school honestly.

 

[p1acebo]

Again, some of you really need to learn how to read. Did I ever say ALL DO PROGRAMS!? Seriously, some of you are so deluded that you need to take my comments out of context to try and defend your beloved choice of going to a DO program by making my argument seem more ridiculous than it is.

"Where do you think this kind of thing is more common? DO or MD programs? Take a wild guess"

Maybe you need to realize what your statements are implying, because the statement I have in quotations is implying that poor clinical experience is most common at DO programs. You make this statement with no basis other than the sample size of your own experiences. This has nothing to do with being "deluded" and I am certainly not defending anything about people making choices about going to a DO program. I am however, letting you know your statement doesn't hold any water (applied to any other program than your own).

Tell you what, if you are so that disgruntled with your decision to be at a DO program then why don't you get off SDN, drop out of your program and start applying to MD programs. It would be a lot more productive than coming on these threads and telling people how things "really are" or that their line of thought is wrong.

 

[sylvanthus]

2nd year was essentially the school handing us Cecils and telling us to read at home. You should thank your lucky stars you're not where I am.

 

[sylvanthus]

"Where do you think this kind of thing is more common? DO or MD programs? Take a wild guess"

Maybe you need to realize what your statements are implying, because the statement I have in quotations is implying that poor clinical experience is most common at DO programs. You make this statement with no basis other than the sample size of your own experiences. This has nothing to do with being "deluded" and I am certainly not defending anything about people making choices about going to a DO program. I am however, letting you know your statement doesn't hold any water (applied to any other program than your own).

Tell you what, if you are so that disgruntled with your decision to be at a DO program then why don't you get off SDN, drop out of your program and start applying to MD programs. It would be a lot more productive than coming on these threads and telling people how things "really are" or that their line of thought is wrong.

Yes, it is stating that it is more common. But more common DOES NOT EQUAL ALL DO PROGRAMS. Again, why you need to learn to read.

Also, no it is pointless and stupid to drop out of a DO program 1/2 way through third year to start at a MD program. My intent is to do as well as possible on the boards and put the AOA as far behind me as possible.

 

[GraceEuphoria]

If I can ruin a person's medical school experience based upon posts on SDN, then their conviction and faith in their choice was minimal at best.

Poor wording on my part really....I suppose you're right. I'd rather have classmates that actually wanted to be there and are willing to approach the experience positively without blaming any flaw present on the fact that it's an osteopathic program. What was your reasoning for going DO, out of curiosity?

 

[tkim]

I think the take-home lesson is that you need to evaluate the entire curriculum of the school before deciding whether to attend that school or not. Asking tough questions when interviewing about the location and availability of their clinical rotations will not only help you make a better decision, but indicate to the schools that it is important to potential matriculants.

People need to get over the initial giddiness of being invited to interview and getting the acceptance to ask whether their tuition money is going to spent wisely on THEM in the pre- and clinical years.

 

[p1acebo]

Yes, it is stating that it is more common. But more common DOES NOT EQUAL ALL DO PROGRAMS. Again, why you need to learn to read.

Also, no it is pointless and stupid to drop out of a DO program 1/2 way through third year to start at a MD program. My intent is to do as well as possible on the boards and put the AOA as far behind me as possible.

"More common" is still a blanket statement on all DO programs, how do you not get that? I understand you are not saying ALL DO PROGRAMS (thanks for the caps by the way) have poor clinical experience, but you are saying that there is a greater chance of a poor clinical experience at a DO program (hence including all DO programs in that chance). You are basing this assumption on a sample size of one. If you don't get it then fine, it doesn't really matter.

I was being sarcastic about my suggestion to drop out, I am sorry you are unhappy with your decisions in life. Good luck.

 

[WaterDragon]

You may not say ALL programs, but by telling someone they should not choose to attend DO programs because of your experiences with your school is not reasonable. Period. People are going to be defensive not because they're insecure about their decision to attend a DO school but more so because you insist on ruining what could be a very good experience for others based on a few circumstances.

This sums up...👍

I was so excited to start my DO school this summer and reading some of the posts here definitely made me feel uneasy about my choice for a moment. But, it is who you become and what you get out of the professional education regardless of MD or DO...

 

[sylvanthus]

I applied only DO because I had believed and bought into the "holistic" approach. I was disappointed when I realized that our coursework was essentially the exact same as that of an MD program, save for adding OMM.

 

[GraceEuphoria]

2nd year was essentially the school handing us Cecils and telling us to read at home. You should thank your lucky stars you're not where I am.

I am, you have no idea lol.

Yes, it is stating that it is more common. But more common DOES NOT EQUAL ALL DO PROGRAMS. Again, why you need to learn to read.

Also, no it is pointless and stupid to drop out of a DO program 1/2 way through third year to start at a MD program. My intent is to do as well as possible on the boards and put the AOA as far behind me as possible.

This is why I normally dodge these debates on here....these types of comments and posts negate any credibility you may have earned. Keeping the tone out of things might actually allow people that are reading to take your experiences and thoughts more seriously. Otherwise, what purpose do they serve for those that come here to get honest opinions?

I hope the rest of your experiences end up better for your sake, honestly. It's going to be a painful year and a half otherwise it seems.

 

[sylvanthus]

"More common" is still a blanket statement on all DO programs, how do you not get that? I understand you are not saying ALL DO PROGRAMS (thanks for the caps by the way) have poor clinical experience, but you are saying that there is a greater chance of a poor clinical experience at a DO program (hence including all DO programs in that chance). You are basing this assumption on a sample size of one. If you don't get it then fine, it doesn't really matter.

I was being sarcastic about my suggestion to drop out, I am sorry you are unhappy with your decisions in life. Good luck.

No, I am not just basing it on the sample size of 1. The very fact that the ACGME finds our residency/internship programs to be subpar and of too low of quality to count as experience towards entering their fellowship/residency programs, makes it more than just my opinion. If our residency/internships are generally of lower quality, do you not think that it is likely that our rotations are also of lower quality considering many of them are done at these same programs?

 

[GraceEuphoria]

I applied only DO because I had believed and bought into the "holistic" approach. I was disappointed when I realized that our coursework was essentially the exact same as that of an MD program, save for adding OMM.

That's too bad....I don't feel like I'm getting the exact training as an MD program at all. So do you think if you had attended a different school, one where a holistic approach, for whatever that phrase is worth, was used, you would have felt more at peace with your decision to attend?

 

[sylvanthus]

Mmmm yes and no. I would personally feel better, but would still be worried about where the field is going and the overall quality of training considering the ACGME change and lack of DO residencies.

 

[GraceEuphoria]

I can't blame people for those hesitations. It should be interesting to see how it all pans out. I suppose I just tend to ride through in oblivion at times and know that ultimately things are going to work out...politics can ruin any profession for you if you let it. All the drama about different things with AOA, healthcare etc really isn't going to hinder my day to day happiness, as long as I'm a physician and helping people.

Just curious, have you decided on a specialty just yet? For your sake I hope you weren't leaning toward surgery 🙂

 

[sylvanthus]

Hah no not surgery thankfully. Likely EM/IM. Most likely, because of these residency changes, Ill have to go straight MD in the off chance I want to do a fellowship one day. There are very few fellowships in our residencies unfortunately. I know they exist, they are just very limited in quantity and location. Whats your plan?

 

[GraceEuphoria]

Hah no not surgery thankfully. Likely EM/IM. Most likely, because of these residency changes, Ill have to go straight MD in the off chance I want to do a fellowship one day. There are very few fellowships in our residencies unfortunately. I know they exist, they are just very limited in quantity and location. Whats your plan?

I agree 100% with choosing an ACGME residency if you have any aspirations for any type of fellowship. I'm REALLY hoping all this stuff doesn't pass, but I'm just glad to know I do have the option of an ACGME residency so that I can't dodge getting screwed out of a fellowship later. I also wouldn't want to limit myself geographically even if there were a few osteopathic fellowships that I'm interested in.

I have ideas about what I'm interested in, but until I see the day to day life on rotations, I won't commit myself to anything. I'm a very silly person in my interactions and because of that, kids and I tend to get along great. I'm leaning peds, ob/gyn and maybe even psych. PM&R is an option still, too. Fellowship wise though, I plan to rotate some through neonate and clinical genetics as both of those strike my fancy a bit as well. I'm so open at this point and I am incredibly indecisive, so it should be interesting to see. Rotations start at the end of July, so I'll start the process of sorting it out all too soon it seems.