How much do Cardiac Anesthesiologists make?

[deleted162650]

I currently do 70-80 hrs/wk with 6wks vacation 10 years into my career and don't make that kind of money.

That


Sounds


Horrible

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[Twiggidy]

It’s not just payor mix. BFE practices need to have a fat subsidy in order to capture and keep talented cardiac guys.

This too. I was going to add that it's helpful if the hospital is providing a stipend.

 

[Drwine]

I can see giving some Propofol to shut them up.....I did it routinely. Giving a benzo is a bad idea though. All you need is some antegrade amnesia and a new mom bitching that she didn't remember her delivery because you "drugged her up."

Agreed. My "sucker punch" is a bolus of hydromorphone and benadryl. I thought I was one of the rare cardiac anesthesiologists that liked to do OB on occasion.

 

[sethco]

How are you privy to this info?

Small hospital and people talk

For those unaware nonprofit hospitals have to file a 990 tax form which is a public form and searchable online. Required listings on that form are the compensation of officers, directors, and highest compensated employees. CV surgeon representation is always on there for the handful of places I've been curious enough to check.

https://cdn.upmc.com/-/media/upmc/about/finances/irs-filings/documents/upmc-fy19-group-media.pdf?la=en&rev=5d6492c5c06b4268b2bcce7982b47f62&hash=515C966FCC845713812444702579C3FC&_ga=2.990582.633005432.1603564121-1578737140.1600198372

This is from my residency program. Go to page 206 and 214 for two of the "higher paid" Cardiac and Thoracic surgeons. This is public info. Most of the somewhat busier Cardiac Surgeons in my area are making in the upper 6 figures about what @Twiggidy said

 

[chocomorsel]

What do you consider to be "'working hard?" I currently do 70-80 hrs/wk with 6wks vacation 10 years into my career and don't make that kind of money. I'd love to go to a state where I can make 750K+ and I'm willing to put in the hours (I know this thread is about cardiac guys and I'm not cardiac trained)

The Midwest. MN, WI, IN come to mind.

 

[chocomorsel]

https://cdn.upmc.com/-/media/upmc/about/finances/irs-filings/documents/upmc-fy19-group-media.pdf?la=en&rev=5d6492c5c06b4268b2bcce7982b47f62&hash=515C966FCC845713812444702579C3FC&_ga=2.990582.633005432.1603564121-1578737140.1600198372

This is from my residency program. Go to page 206 and 214 for two of the "higher paid" Cardiac and Thoracic surgeons. This is public info. Most of the somewhat busier Cardiac Surgeons in my area are making in the upper 6 figures about what @Twiggidy said

Those numbers are insane for the ortho pods and CV surgeons.
Wow.

 

[Twiggidy]

Those numbers are insane for the ortho pods and CV surgeons.
Wow.

Sort of feels like you chose the wrong field, huh?

As far as CV surgeons go, it's not like they grow on trees and even when they graduate fellowship it takes a while for them to actually know what they're doing. At that point it's simple supply vs demand. Hospitals bend over backwards for cardiac surgeons because if they leave, they're taking their CV program with them.

As far as orthopedics, there's also not a ton of them but also they simply have a ton of work. There's always some old person that needs a hip or some daredevil that's broken a bone. They are just busy surgeons overall so they just bring in a bunch of revenue.

Almost any surgical specialty can be lumped with these two field because the specialties don't graduate a ton of residents and if the surgeon is any good then they bring value to the facility, unlike us anesthesiologist where you can flash a Bat Signal in the air and about 30 fellowship trained people will show up wanting the job.

 

[scoopdaboop]

Idk why this is surprising... MGMA data shows similar numbers lol. Spine ortho is easy 1 mil + as is CT surg.

 

[Southpaw]

Idk why this is surprising... MGMA data shows similar numbers lol. Spine ortho is easy 1 mil + as is CT surg.

Some of those numbers are 2mil+. Is that normal for big name surgeons, or just busy surgeons, at academic places?

 

[scoopdaboop]

Some of those numbers are 2mil+. Is that normal for big name surgeons, or just busy surgeons, at academic places?

I'm not the person to ask. I have seen numbers of some ENT surgeons etc. in the public California schools which have to release that information making 1 mil +, never 2 million though. So I'm assuming volume is a big part of it.

 

[pgg]

Pay is always, always about market forces, not inherent value or worth of a job, a degree, or a person. It's an invitation to a lifetime of heartburn to go looking for that kind of meaning in your paycheck vs someone else's paycheck.

I'm glad to see CV and spine surgeons earn wheelbarrows of money. In the grand scheme of things it makes high salaries for us less outrageous-looking. I'd never want to be one of them, though. That CV surgeon training pathway and lifestyle? Screw that.

 

[itwasalladream]

I don’t think so.
Please share if this is the case.
There is no specific billing codes for tdi or 3d as far as i know.

For 3D, look into CPT code 76376.

A Further Take on TEE: Going Beyond the Basics | Anesthesia Business Consultants

ABC eAlerts are timely updates and news affecting anesthesia and pain management providers.

www.anesthesiallc.com

 

[nimbus]

In California, the only state employees who approach football coach money are surgeons and dermatopathologists.

 

[caligas]

Sort of feels like you chose the wrong field, huh?

If you’re going to play that game, let’s just acknowledge that we all went into the wrong career in general. My college buddies that went into finance or law are all well into 8 figure net worth. They are frustrated with me when I just want to go cat skiing instead of heli skiing.

 

[AdmiralChz]

If you’re going to play that game, let’s just acknowledge that we all went into the wrong career in general. My college buddies that went into finance or law are all well into 8 figure net worth. They are frustrated with me when I just want to go cat skiing instead of heli skiing.

For every “8 figure” lawyer out there, there’s at least a 100, maybe 1000, poorly compensated, overworked ones. That job market fell out from under them 5-10 years ago and largely hasn’t recovered. If you don’t have an “in” or go to a top 5 school it’s a crowded mess of a job market.

Finance you are constantly looking over over your shoulder as a new, younger person can replace you at anytime for cheaper. Have you met anyone in serious banking? Those hours make anesthesia’s look amazing. These folks would kill for our job security. The grass is absolutely not greener elsewhere.

Personally, I make more working less than many of the surgeons I work with. That’s including cardiac. Plus when I go home I get to stay there and not answer the phone on my post-ops. I am satisfied with that.

Heli-skiing? Now I’m regretting answering your post at all

 

[leaverus]

The Midwest. MN, WI, IN come to mind.

No, I meant somewhere good.

 

[chocomorsel]

No, I meant somewhere good.

Well, I suggest you suck it up buttercup and keep busting your ass for whatever you make then. Can't help you.
I hear some of the TX USAP groups make good money. Don't know if that's good enough for you though. It is a three year track.

 

[scoopdaboop]

If you’re going to play that game, let’s just acknowledge that we all went into the wrong career in general. My college buddies that went into finance or law are all well into 8 figure net worth. They are frustrated with me when I just want to go cat skiing instead of heli skiing.

Yeah I have college buddies who went into finance, accounting also. None of them are breaking 6 figures lol. Maybe that changes in the future... But, no. The only person I know breaking 6 figures is a grad from Wharton breaking 6 figures in a High cost of living area...

 

[Twiggidy]

For every “8 figure” lawyer out there, there’s at least a 100, maybe 1000, poorly compensated, overworked ones. That job market fell out from under them 5-10 years ago and largely hasn’t recovered. If you don’t have an “in” or go to a top 5 school it’s a crowded mess of a job market.

Finance you are constantly looking over over your shoulder as a new, younger person can replace you at anytime for cheaper. Have you met anyone in serious banking? Those hours make anesthesia’s look amazing. These folks would kill for our job security. The grass is absolutely not greener elsewhere.

Personally, I make more working less than many of the surgeons I work with. That’s including cardiac. Plus when I go home I get to stay there and not answer the phone on my post-ops. I am satisfied with that.

Heli-skiing? Now I’m regretting answering your post at all

I do feel like you have one of the better PP jobs on this board

 

[Twiggidy]

For every “8 figure” lawyer out there, there’s at least a 100, maybe 1000, poorly compensated, overworked ones. That job market fell out from under them 5-10 years ago and largely hasn’t recovered. If you don’t have an “in” or go to a top 5 school it’s a crowded mess of a job market.

This is so true. Law school may not be worth it if you can't get into an Ivy and get into the track to an appointed position. The money isn't great in that track but if you're luck you'll have a job for life. Otherwise, as you said, there's a lot of lawyers working twice as hard making half as much or else just quitting and starting podcasts.

 

[pgg]

This is so true. Law school may not be worth it if you can't get into an Ivy and get into the track to an appointed position. The money isn't great in that track but if you're luck you'll have a job for life. Otherwise, as you said, there's a lot of lawyers working twice as hard making half as much or else just quitting and starting podcasts.

Law definitely isn't worth it unless you're from a top school ... and a top grad at that top school. Even so, those guys work. It looks like a miserable life. No thanks.

What's usually lost in these threads is that these apex predators in law and finance would be apex predators in any field they chose. Medicine has been, is, and will be essentially unique in that just about anyone with discipline and butt calluses can gut out training and end up doing something with unmatched job security that pays $200K+ floor for bankers' hours outpatient work, and more for other areas. Being brilliant and connected and lucky help but they're not prerequisites the way they are for those fabled jobs in law and finance.

 

[deleted697535]

Law definitely isn't worth it unless you're from a top school ... and a top grad at that top school. Even so, those guys work. It looks like a miserable life. No thanks.

What's usually lost in these threads is that these apex predators in law and finance would be apex predators in any field they chose. Medicine has been, is, and will be essentially unique in that just about anyone with discipline and butt calluses can gut out training and end up doing something with unmatched job security that pays $200K+ floor for bankers' hours outpatient work, and more for other areas. Being brilliant and connected and lucky help but they're not prerequisites the way they are for those fabled jobs in law and finance.

yes
As an ex engineer, involved in a couple of startups that failed, im very happy with the switch. the stress associated with having to let good people go, or cut their wages cause no one wants your product is something awful

 

[OTCAwesome]

It's not so much "that state" as it is finding the right practice. You need a busy practice with a good payor mix (ie mostly commercial insurance) and probably a busy OB service. The unit value also needs to be above average. You can take a bunch of call, probably like 2x a week overnight and a couple of weekends and you can certainly get to that number.

Let's do rough math
$750000/$50 per unit = 15000 units

so you need to be busy enough to pull 15000 units per year. That's 1250 units per month. Roughly 315 units per week. Roughly 40ish units per day. And that's not counting the 6-8 weeks of vacation so it's definitely more per month/per week/per day
(This all assumes a RVU based practice)

We a busy OR and a busy OB service and not giving any calls away and taking some other folks calls it can be done provided all those stars align.

Edit: Keep in mind, there isn't a practice anywhere that's going to offer you a W2 750k salary. Just wont happen. So given that you do 80hrs/week you currently either have a unit value that is too low, getting salary and not productivity based pay, or do mostly low unit cases

Disagree with the W2 thing. In Indiana, pulled 770k last year as W2,, however I did only take 6 weeks vaca and picked up a couple extra calls.

 

[sethco]

Disagree with the W2 thing. In Indiana, pulled 770k last year as W2,, however I did only take 6 weeks vaca and picked up a couple extra calls.

I'll echo this. There are employed positions out there that can make this income level and even in some cases without doing any supervision work. I'll admit, These positions are pretty rare and you need to know where to look, but they are out there

 

[sevoflurane]

Indiana is an awful place to live especially this time of the year. That being said, my highest income years were in that state.

 

[OTCAwesome]

Indiana is an awful place to live especially this time of the year. That being said, my highest income years were in that state.

Haha, totally agree with you. We have now officially entered the perpetual state of cold, gray weather that will haunt us for the next 5-6 months. Unfortunately, the wifey and I entire family are here, so we're kind of stuck, but made the deal with each other for a minimum of 2 warm weather vacations per winter abyss. Last year was 2 weeks Grenada and saint Lucia, then 2 weeks Kauai and the big island. Also summers here up at the lake are pretty nice.

If you don't mind me asking, where abouts in Indiana were you??

 

[sevoflurane]

An hour outside of Indy right off of 70.

I did the same as you... bought a home in Colorado while I was in Indiana and went there about once a month.