How much harder than organic chemistry does it get?

[MangoPlant]

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How much harder were your upper level undergraduate classes (in your respective major) compared to organic chemistry. I'm just wondering because I was able to do well in all the other pre-reqs I took except organic chemistry, probably going to get a C in this one.. 🙁.

Are upper level classes (physical chemistry, human physiology, genetics, etc etc) harder than o-chem or would you consider them easier?

 

[Planes2Doc]

Organic chemistry was initially impossible for me. Then one day it clicked after correctly visualizing the electron pushing. From then on everything made sense. I heard other people I knew were like this. It just depends on who you are, and what you are good at!

 

[wizedw]

I thought my upper levels were way easier than my intro classes. (The hardest thing for me was Physics 2, I'd take organic over physics in a heartbeat). Once I got to Junior year life got way easier.

 

[loonfromnool]

I'd say it's about the same. I'm taking Human Physiology, Biochemistry, & Anatomy right now (all 300 level courses) and while the actual material doesn't seem as difficult as Orgo, there is about 3x as much to learn so I'm easily spending more time studying this year than last. Orgo is stupid though which makes it hard to learn, while some of your upper classes will probably interest you more (& thus making studying for them much easier 😀 )

 

[circulus vitios]

It can be harder or it can be easier. It depends on you. Organic chemistry was the hardest science class I've ever taken. Partly because I was lazy, partly because my professor was ridiculously hard, and partly because organic chemistry was taught differently than anything I had ever taken before.

 

[Arbor Vitae]

PChem was the hardest for me mainly because I finished calculus Freshman year and hadn't done it in 2 years.

 

[music2doc]

It's going to vary. I thought ochem was somewhat challenging until it clicked. After it clicked, it was a piece of cake. Physio was probably my toughest UG med school prereq in terms of time spent studying. (I studied an average of probably 1-2 hrs/wk for ochem vs. about 8-10 hrs/wk for physio.) Med school... so far it's Anatomy by far. It's mostly that I'm not a memorizer and all Anatomy is is memorization. Without function, I find it very difficult to learn. For people like me, I strongly suggest going to a school where the curriculum places Anatomy and Physiology in parallel instead of in sequence. I know our school is going to the former model as of next year...

 

[MangoPlant]

I just find organic chemistry to be extremely hard... It seems like a bad combination of memorization and visualization. I've also heard that medical schools place extra importance on o-chem grades, anyone happen to know if this is true?

 

[music2doc]

I just find organic chemistry to be extremely hard... It seems like a bad combination of memorization and visualization. I've also heard that medical schools place extra importance on o-chem grades, anyone happen to know if this is true?

Not so much "extra importance" as "it's good for separating candidates" because people don't do well in it. It tends to be somewhat less grade-inflated than many other courses. That makes it somewhat more useful.

 

[stscrivener]

It's going to vary. I thought ochem was somewhat challenging until it clicked. After it clicked, it was a piece of cake. Physio was probably my toughest UG med school prereq in terms of time spent studying. (I studied an average of probably 1-2 hrs/wk for ochem vs. about 8-10 hrs/wk for physio.) Med school... so far it's Anatomy by far. It's mostly that I'm not a memorizer and all Anatomy is is memorization. Without function, I find it very difficult to learn. For people like me, I strongly suggest going to a school where the curriculum places Anatomy and Physiology in parallel instead of in sequence. I know our school is going to the former model as of next year...

My school just has a 5 credit Anatomy and Physiology class. It's extremely popular, yet most people fail. You'd think people would begin to realize not to take it, but on the other hand, it's a very good weed-out course.

 

[Bangersandmash]

I hear P chem is quite a doozy for chem majors. Most upper level engineering courses are much harder than Ochem any day.

As for bio/pre health professions majors, I'd say orgo is about as difficult as it gets. Orgo + lab is a time consuming mix of memorization and purely new concepts. You may have a lot of stuff to memorize and learn in anatomy + biochem, but it least you've seen a little before and it is easier to grasp.

 

[Claudin]

Organic chemistry requires you to memorize and apply what you've learned. It's a difficult subject because on test situations, you can easily miss a synthesis question and lose 6 - 8 marks (at least at my university). You have to do a lot of practice, just like in calculus/other math courses

If you are in a bio-related major, upper year courses tend to require more memorization. It is the sheer amount of information which makes these courses hard. However, unlike organic chem, you will do well in upper year if you study.

 

[Taranis]

Organic chemistry is child's play compared to upper level physics haha, but for the bio upper levels that I took its probably easier

 

[Samiamm]

Organic chemistry is child's play compared to upper level physics haha, but for the bio upper levels that I took its probably easier

I don't understand what you're contrasting here 😕

Is physics easier then the upper level bio you took, or is ochem??

 

[dfib slim]

.

 

[Spinach Dip]

Anything can be hard if you have a bad teacher.

I personally thought Ochem and mammal physiology were easy. I had more trouble in some 'gimme' classes like communications and ecology because the teachers were not as clear about what they expected us to know.

 

[Taranis]

I don't understand what you're contrasting here 😕

Is physics easier then the upper level bio you took, or is ochem??

Sorry that was worded poorly,I am saying upper level bio is probably easier or around the same difficulty, but for upper-level courses in other disciplines this may not be the case.

 

[TwinsFan]

Thermodynamics 2: we had the guy who wrote the tables for the literature. F average on all tests and the final, zero curve. Most were studying 10-15 hr/wk just to pass. 40 students, about 10 dropped (and pretty much no one dropped upper level engineering courses at my undergrad), there were lots of Ds and Fs and zero As.

O Chem was quite a bit easier, but still required effort and discipline to get an A.

 

[angemon89]

Am I the only one that loved ochem? It made so much sense to me. And it was never hard. Not even for a second.

Every other pre-req was tough for me though.

 

[AdrianVeidt]

It can be harder or it can be easier. It depends on you. Organic chemistry was the hardest science class I've ever taken. Partly because I was lazy, partly because my professor was ridiculously hard, and partly because organic chemistry was taught differently than anything I had ever taken before.

this and nothing else

 

[Bangersandmash]

Thermodynamics 2: we had the guy who wrote the tables for the literature. F average on all tests and the final, zero curve. Most were studying 10-15 hr/wk just to pass. 40 students, about 10 dropped (and pretty much no one dropped upper level engineering courses at my undergrad), there were lots of Ds and Fs and zero As.

O Chem was quite a bit easier, but still required effort and discipline to get an A.

Ahhhhhhhh, the woes of thermo. My roommate got a B in it. On his second try.

 

[Shinobiz11]

The help sessions for orgo are really working for me at the moment. Its nice to have a different style of teaching for this class; the TA explains stuff so much better than the prof.

I have to say, as I get farther into my coursework, the classes are a lot easier and clear-cut. The first 100-level science classes (mostly bio) were weeder courses and the professors were pretty rude to all the potential failures in the room. Now that I am in 400-level stuff, you know the professors on a personal level and they respect that you know what you're doing as well as understand the material, seeing how you've gotten this far. Back to the point, the material just seems a lot more specific and for the most part, simpler. Microbio is nothing compared to gen bio 1. Maybe it's just that I've learned better habits through the years and learned to sift through the BS, but I'm not sure. Also, I'm taking classes I actually want to take and am interested in, so that might help in the process of studying. I'm loving micro right now; its so applicable and actually medically relevant! My hardest class has probably been Intro to Ethics because my professor was a *****. Every other class has been pretty straight-forward; my laziness attributes to the grade I earned. 🙂

 

[DavetheMD]

Physics >> pretty much everything else

 

[coyotelime]

Neuroanatomy/biochemistry >>> Organic any day.

I never minded orgo so much - it was quite a bit of material (esp 2nd semester), but once you had the basic 5-6 mechanisms down the rest were just variations.

 

[samsunimomo]

Am I the only one that loved ochem? It made so much sense to me. And it was never hard. Not even for a second.

Every other pre-req was tough for me though.

I sincerely believe that different schools teach it differently. For instance, some of the students from my school compared organic chemistry midterms from different Ivies once, and as to be expected, some were easier/harder than others. My prof has also scoffed at quality of Organic Chemistry course taught at Harvard Summer school

 

[SpecterGT260]

Not so much "extra importance" as "it's good for separating candidates" because people don't do well in it. It tends to be somewhat less grade-inflated than many other courses. That makes it somewhat more useful.

Right. It is the primary pre med weed out course. People freak out about it as freshmen but those who go past it usually do without much issue. Achem and pchem are tenfold more difficult.

 

[baltimoreman]

Engineering is much harder.

 

[yellowperil]

Biophysical chemistry, imaging learning about 1D,2D, and 3D Schrödinger equation and solve for particle in the box.
Worst class ever for my major.

 

[Skull Pell]

The first 100-level science classes (mostly bio) were weeder courses and the professors were pretty rude to all the potential failures in the room.

LOL. 👍👍👍

My advisor for my group biology poster project (who is also my bio professor) said that no one gets an A+ in the department. Now I'm starting to get lazy for the upcoming exam with a midterm grade of A

 

[angemon89]

I sincerely believe that different schools teach it differently. For instance, some of the students from my school compared organic chemistry midterms from different Ivies once, and as to be expected, some were easier/harder than others. My prof has also scoffed at quality of Organic Chemistry course taught at Harvard Summer school

Oh don't get me wrong, the quality of the classes (read: difficulty) was pretty up there at my university. Our class test averages were always below 40%. The difference between my peers and I was that I took Ochem 1 at community college and I've hypothesized that I received a better foundation for the subject.

At community college the ochem labs were very strenuous, the lectures were very thorough, and the professor was always there to help us out and answer our questions. Once I transferred to the university and started learning the more complicated mechanisms, it all just made sense. While my university peers were struggling with mechanisms, I was understanding them. "Just follow the electrons" my community college professor would say.

It makes sense because ochem really is a brand new subject to most people. Without a good foundation, you're gonna have a bad time *south park ski instructor*. And I can honestly say that at my university they don't do a good job of laying that foundation. Most likely because the classrooms are filled with 500 people instead of 24.

 

[Skull Pell]

Oh don't get me wrong, the quality of the classes (read: difficulty) was pretty up there at my university. Our class test averages were always below 40%. The difference between my peers and I was that I took Ochem 1 at community college and I've hypothesized that I received a better foundation for the subject.

At community college the ochem labs were very strenuous, the lectures were very thorough, and the professor was always there to help us out and answer our questions. Once I transferred to the university and started learning the more complicated mechanisms, it all just made sense. While my university peers were struggling with mechanisms, I was understanding them. "Just follow the electrons" my community college professor would say.

It makes sense because ochem really is a brand new subject to most people. Without a good foundation, you're gonna have a bad time *south park ski instructor*. And I can honestly say that at my university they don't do a good job of laying that foundation. Most likely because the classrooms are filled with 500 people instead of 24.

Say, hypothetically, I took Orgo 1 and 2 over the summer at a local community college as an audit class. And then got A's in my university Orgo 1 and 2 during the fall and spring sem following those summer classes.

Would med school adcoms look down on that?

That you took orgo already in a CC so you already have the knowledge base for the univ orgo? Would I still give the med school adcoms the transcript of the community college with the orgo audit class?

 

[OCDOCDOCD]

Neuroanatomy/biochemistry >>> Organic any day.

I never minded orgo so much - it was quite a bit of material (esp 2nd semester), but once you had the basic 5-6 mechanisms down the rest were just variations.

I had the opposite experience. Orgo ended up going down as the hardest class I've ever taken. I was a neuroscience major and while people claimed that the neurobiology class in the major was the hardest class in the college aside from pchem (at the very least it was the hardest class in the bio and neuro departments, according to the faculty themselves) I still managed to get an A- in that compared to the B- I got in orgo. I'm also finding biochem far easier than orgo as well.

Perhaps in my case a large part of my struggles with orgo were due to the fact that I absolutely hated the subject matter in that class. I just found it so boring that I usually couldn't bring myself to study more than 3 days before an exam (I think the most I ever studied for the class was 5 days ahead of an exam). My upper level bio and neuro classes were, in contrast, actually interesting and so I did well in them as a result.

 

[Shinobiz11]

LOL. 👍👍👍

My advisor for my group biology poster project (who is also my bio professor) said that no one gets an A+ in the department. Now I'm starting to get lazy for the upcoming exam with a midterm grade of A

Don't get cocky. 🙂

 

[SpecterGT260]

Don't get cocky. 🙂

this is probably the best advice I had heard around here. That said, it is hard not to get a little burnt out.

Keep pushing 👍

 

[Narmerguy]

I think this is mostly going to be uninterpretable information. This depends on highly on professors, universities, and personal aptitudes...not to mention which upper level undergraduate classes different people took.

Either way, I thought Organic required work but if you put in the time it wasn't so hard. I think my hardest undergraduate classes were some of my upper physics classes. Those made me want to throw something out a window (preferably the professor).

 

[Roxas]

O-chem was hands down the toughest class I've taken, but I loved it! That being said, my professor was incredibly difficult. I took during the summer and got a B in orgo 1 and a D+ in orgo 2. To give you some perspective, nobody got an A in either half (and many of the class was taking it for the 2nd and 3rd time), and even tho I didn't pass I scored in the 70th percentile on the ACS.... When I retook orgo 2 I got a B+, so I'm guessing I'll have some explaining to do for my grades 🙂 but I feel like the rest of my grades can show that it was the class, and not me slacking off.

 

[surub]

Just my two cents.

For me organic wasn't a problem as in I wasn't able to comprehend it, but rather just a dry topic for me (B in organic I and I'm headed towards a A-/A in organic II this semester). Nonetheless, I see the massive importance it has to biology. Frankly, I find all my upper level biology classes a lot more straight forward because I'm studying something that really interests me.

But again what one gauges as the hardest class in undergrad in completely case sensitive to that individual.

 

[Dash2021]

Ochem is all about study and discipline. Hard is relative, so it's difficult to compare. A&P is a difficult class if you are used to learning systems and making connections, as A&P is mostly memorization.

As a lot have said, Ochem does eventually click and become a lot easier. For me it was simply recognizing electronegativity trends in the periodic table. Couple electronegativity , electron shielding, partial charges, and resonance and you can pretty much guess the answer to any reaction, and reactions are what most people in my class complained about.

 

[Doctor Strange]

Immuno kicked my ass.

 

[IncognitoGuy]

Orgo was hard for me, but I think it was because I didn't realize how you study for it - I didn't do nearly enough practice problems to really solidify the concepts and know it on that kind of level.

 

[Charles Darwin]

Biochem is nightmarish.

 

[Essene]

When speaking of physics- we should really differentiate whether or not it's with calculus or not.

I plan on taking Phys II with calc.

 

[SpecterGT260]

You guys will all realize how easy these things were once you get into med school 😀

What is hard is always relative to what you have experienced. The good news is the magic gnomes in your brain seem to always rewire things in the nick of time and it all works out

 

[Charles Darwin]

You guys will all realize how easy these things were once you get into med school 😀

What is hard is always relative to what you have experienced. The good news is the magic gnomes in your brain seem to always rewire things in the nick of time and it all works out

knick

So true though.

 

[angemon89]

Say, hypothetically, I took Orgo 1 and 2 over the summer at a local community college as an audit class. And then got A's in my university Orgo 1 and 2 during the fall and spring sem following those summer classes.

Would med school adcoms look down on that?

That you took orgo already in a CC so you already have the knowledge base for the univ orgo? Would I still give the med school adcoms the transcript of the community college with the orgo audit class?

I would say that's a waste of time.

 

[SpecterGT260]

knick

So true though.

👍
Didn't think that looked right

 

[Kyo69]

Nick is correct.

 

[mwsapphire]

I came to this thread after searching " Orgo"
I had to W my first round of orgo and am taking it this upcoming semester. I have space in my schedule to do this due to AP Physics credit, so I'm just asking, how bad will that W look? Like, I realize what I was doing wrong in that class and I feel like I can do really well this time, but would a "W' look that bad next to an "A"?

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

A W doesn't look nearly as bad as a D or an F. Or even a C really. It doesn't factor into your GPA, and if you get an A this go around, you should be fine.

 

[TheBiologist]

organic just clicked with me

I thought gen physics was harder, although it might have been the sketchy professors I had.....