How much specialized dentists make?

[Transformers]

Hey guys,

I have several quick questions. When I graduate from dental school + residency by the time I am 30 as a specialized dentist- orthodontist, periodontist, oral surgeon, on AVERAGE (I hope you can support with several links from the ADA, etc..)

1.) How much would I make first year out working in someone's practice?

2.) How many years will it be (what age basically) until I can start my independent practice and how much would I make then?

3.) If dentistry is the hot field, why isn't EVERYONE doing it?

Thank you.

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[lollipop999]

Hey guys,

I have several quick questions. When I graduate from dental school + residency by the time I am 30 as a specialized dentist- orthodontist, periodontist, oral surgeon, on AVERAGE (I hope you can support with several links from the ADA, etc..)

1.) How much would I make first year out working in someone's practice?

2.) How many years will it be (what age basically) until I can start my independent practice and how much would I make then?

3.) If dentistry is the hot field, why isn't EVERYONE doing it?

Thank you.

3) It is Hot, and everyone is doing it.... THe incoming stats of freshman at schools is sooooooo much higher than 5 years ago.

 

[dentstd]

the clinic's a business, so you determine what you make. manage efficiently and you'll be rewarded financially. go into it ah hoc and you'll be broke

 

[armorshell]

Hey guys,

I am at a stage where Im starting to realize the cons and pros as to why I am doing medicine. Pros: I am really amazing at my premed classes and I go to top 20 university...as in I have not received a grade below a 95 in any of my science exams) and I am managing close to a solid 4.0. I have been such an ideal candidate for the top med schools- have an excellent research position at a neighboring med school with the head physiology professor, summer job at a medical clinic, shadowing various specialities, and excellent community service. Yet at at the same time, I am having a miserable lifestyle - sleep, hygiene, social life. I know I could have an awesome social life because I really enjoy the company of others, but it seems that at this point in my life, its been work. And at the end of the day, I am going into medicine for the money and not for anything else. I am going to be even more miserable, because the workload will get only harder and I will get less and less sleep. At the end of the day, I am so frustrated at the fact that I will continue to make more sacrifices and reap the financial benefits in my 30s and I am not sure if I really want to do this for the sake of helping others. I am more along the attitudes and lines of living the dream now- fast cars and a big house.

As for now, as a sophomore, I am strongly considering taking about 18 credits of business classes over the next few semesters. I plan on taking the MCATS next year (junior year), but will not be applying to med school my senior year. Instead, I want to devote my efforts to doing business oriented activities and I even plan on taking a year off to work in the business world. So anyways, I have two questions for those who have advice about business. Just like med schools expect GPA, MCAT, etc... for top med schools, what can I do to land a top internship (at a finance company)? Do you think my success in my science classes will translate to success in the business world?

Thank you.

Well, I want to keep my discussion short and to the point. I am currently doing extremely well in all my premed classes at a top 20 university...what I mean is that I am getting straight As, and not just simply As, but to the point that my test averages are literally and have been ranked in the top of the class in all my premed classes. For example, for my orgo class, I have pushed my academic limits in the sense that I just start studying for exams 3 days before...study straight...and still manage to get the highest grade in the class out of a class of 500 smart kids. Clearly, I have demonstrated a knack for science and I know I have the aptitude for this field. Furthermore, at this moment, I have everything going for me- shadowing experience, summer at a medical clinic, undergrad research during the academic year at a neighboring medical school with the head physiology professor, + with excellent recommendations on the side..not to mention, a 3.98 GPA.

Yet...its come to the point where none of this means much to me anymore. I would love to help people, but not to the extent that it requires so much personal, social, physical, and mental sacrifices. While I put so much effort and reap the success of my hard work (consisting of allnighters at times and sacrifice of all aspects of life), I'm not sure that I can do this as a career lifestyle. Furthermore, I am not even much of a bookworm because I actually manage a social life during the weekends, but there are other necessities (i.e. working out, eating right, sleeping right, family life) that I am concerned I will be deprived of if I do medicine. Based on the preceding reasons, I have come to the conclusion that I may want to do investment banking out of financial interest, but also, I believe that I have the skillset and hope that my academic success in the sciences will translate the same way in the business program at my school.

Basically I was wondering what you guys think of the following plan:
Well, I am done with my premed reqs and I do plan on taking the MCAT next junior spring, but I wont apply to medical school (why you may ask? the MCAT is valid for up to 3 years and I will use that time period out). I will start the business program next spring (in addition to orgo and phys II), and I will still have to to take several finance courses in the summer to keep pace. Ultimately, my time will be occupied with finance classes and applying for internships in the remaining 2 years as I hope to pursue a finance major. After that, I hope to land an internship and ultimately a job after college with a top IBanking company (Goldman, JPMorgan, etc..). If I succeed and realize that I have a knack with the field, I will stick with business. If not, I will apply to med school. Is this path a smart idea, because I simply to not want to approach my career with a one-dimensional all-out path, because I am giving a shot at the idea that I might be really good at business. I want to give myself the opportunity, at the very least, to pursue this exploration. Though IBanking may stressful (not to the extent of medicine), I realize I can probably live a happier life on Wallstreet than in medicine.

Also, I really am not interested in hearing about thoughts on "dude, don't go into medicine for the money" because I have obviously reviewed those ideas with my friends. I am rather interested in your assessment of my plan.

 

[au5233]

...why is $$ so important? I guess that's why the profession has the highest suicide rate -- too many people go into it for the wrong reasons. Must my opinion.

 

[Artful Dodger]

^Ouch! @ armorshell's find

Well, you're better off doing business...There's a lot of money in there. You won't be satisfied with the money you'll be making in the medical field, that's for sure. You're probably going to end up ditching it after finding something else to do...Just a heads up though. Stick to what you want the most. You do medicine because you love it; you do business because you want money. Get your priorities straight...and I'm not trying to be your mother or father here. I'm just writing from a personal experience, you know.

 

[swtcatastrophe]

OP, when initially discussing my interest in dentistry with my general dentist, he told me that i wouldn't make tons of money in the field but that i could live comfortably--which is totally fine with me. money is definitely not the reason most people go into the field. you have to be passionate about it and really want it. D-school is pretty dang challenging and you'll probably struggle if you don't really want what's at the end of the road.

i'm also surprised that no one's pointed out the insane hours that investment bankers work. you could be working 100 hours/week. most people only do i-banking for 2 years and either go to B-school afterwards or go into the private sector. the annual is good but only b/c you put in so many hours. it seems like you are very driven and could go far in whatever field you choose.

you are still only a sophomore. you should explore your different options. while it's okay to value financial stability, it shouldn't be your primary criteria for what you'll be doing with the rest of your life. there's a lot more to life than fast cars and a big house.

 

[Regmata]

Do your own research maybe?

 

[Transformers]

Hey guys, can you answer my questions about the issue of specialty...how much would I make coming out of dental school as an orthodontist, on average and how many years would I have to work until starting a private practice and how much I would make. I know "it depends" but I just want an average ballpark figure.

Thank you.

 

[dental0903]

Hey guys, can you answer my questions about the issue of specialty...how much would I make coming out of dental school as an orthodontist, on average and how many years would I have to work until starting a private practice and how much I would make. I know "it depends" but I just want an average ballpark figure.

Thank you.

They make about 30K a year. Still interested?

 

[golfer]

I agree with Regmata. (Plus if amorshell's quotations are really what you have said in the past you should feel pretty confident in finding the average salaries of specialists)
Good luck

 

[dentstd]

Hey guys, can you answer my questions about the issue of specialty...how much would I make coming out of dental school as an orthodontist, on average and how many years would I have to work until starting a private practice and how much I would make. I know "it depends" but I just want an average ballpark figure.

Thank you.

for crying out loud, do your own damn research. you brag of lots of things, but you lack sense. when you own a clinic, since YOU OWN it, you are your own boss. what's your work quality? do you price right? do you manage right? do you suck with people? how do you market your business? geez...the list goes on.

 

[yorkiepoo]

this isn't a completely insignificant question. it is important to know ball park figures before investing 100's of 1000's of dollars into dental school education.

From one source I saw.. the average GP is making around 175,000 and the average specialist 250,000. but these numbers are very relative. there are definitely GPs and specialist making more/less that that.

 

[joeliu0112]

for crying out loud, do your own damn research. you brag of lots of things, but you lack sense. when you own a clinic, since YOU OWN it, you are your own boss. what's your work quality? do you price right? do you manage right? do you suck with people? how do you market your business? geez...the list goes on.

YES, I totally agree.

 

[NewMexDent]

Hey guys, can you answer my questions about the issue of specialty...how much would I make coming out of dental school as an orthodontist, on average and how many years would I have to work until starting a private practice and how much I would make. I know "it depends" but I just want an average ballpark figure.

Thank you.

I also don't understand why you can't manage to do your own research. You asked for links to the ADA website supporting the numbers. Wouldn't it be easier for you to just go to the website and find it yourself? Come on!

 

[gijohn529]

I think the best answer to the salary question is that you have to love what you do. There are great perks to dentistry which includes a pretty solid salary but if you don't enjoy it, it will be hell for you.

Another few words I would like everyone to think about is that you will have to work hard in order to do well in your field. Every career path has it's struggles to get to the top. For example, if you think you're into business, then you're going to have to work from the bottom and slowly climb up the corporate ladder. You want to be a dentist, you're going to have to go through 4 years of grueling study and clinical exercises, then you have to get yourself out of the hole you dug in debt, etc...

... Then again some people just get lucky; success and fortune seem to find them, but that's only the few and it's an exception to the norm.

I was a business major and am currently working is the corporate world. I decided it wasn't for me so that's when I explored different careers. I've seen people succeed while others struggle. The people that are on top seem to really like what they do.

I hope you all get to do what you love! Good luck keep marching!

 

[xplayer2885]

You also have to understand, alot of what has too do with it is location. If you work in NYC or LI for instance your gonna make alot more than some one living in the middle of NY state. It also has too do with what you want, out of it. Do you want a practice, multiple practices, or work for some one? There is a point to this thread. After spending years in school you deffinatly want to be living the good life.

 

[sublimegd]

LOL!!!!!

This is the best thread ever. If you can put 3 days of straight studying for a test, you can put 1 minute into googling "orthodontist income." I'm not going to jump down your throat and call you a soulless loser who only cares about money and has no grasp on reality. I also don't really think that math/science ability really translates that much into business ability. Business is a different game, you have to suck up to your profs/boss, do stupid presentation on fake companies, have a grasp on the big world picture, have a lot of general knowledge about boring stuff, read newspapers... But give it a shot if you want.

 

[makushin]

If I hear one more person discuss investment banking I'm going to stick a toothbrush thru my optic canal.

Dentistry is usually a business which means you control what you make. As long as we are not forced to work for the government or walmart there is plenty of opportunity. You will probably not be rich.

 

[crrees]

Id imagine if you are a GP you could potentially make 125k in certain areas such as miami/fort lauderdale and 180-200k in the same area as an ortho. That salary can rise only with time and experience. Owning your own buisness is very stressful and so is money. Mo' Money, Mo' Problems. Make enough to make yourself happy and give a better life to other people. This is probably the best way to feel fulfilled by the end of your career.

 

[CariesMcGee]

If I hear one more person discuss investment banking I'm going to stick a toothbrush thru my optic canal.

Dentistry is usually a business which means you control what you make. As long as we are not forced to work for the government or walmart there is plenty of opportunity. You will probably not be rich.

175K on AVE is not rich?

 

[dr bojangles]

hey 4.0 transformers, its simple math really:

(100 billion dollars) - (tuition) - (raising a family) - (managing a practice) = peanuts

transformers, are you a robot in disguise?

 

[diesels]

Since you are so smart, perhaps you could make some Internet start-up where people can search the web and find any answer to any question imaginable. You could even name it google. And then when we have ******ed questions we could just search without having to reveal our stupidity to the rest of the world...

 

[sublimegd]

hey 4.0 transformers, its simple math really:

(100 billion dollars) - (tuition) - (raising a family) - (managing a practice) = peanuts

transformers, are you a robot in disguise?

hehe, check this one out

((i-banker salary) - (normal car price^(6/penis size)) / (1+number of divorces) =


transformers, are you more than meets the eyes?

 

[electron]

I suspect Transformers will be "transforming" into a new username after everyones through with him, haha

 

[makushin]

175K on AVE is not rich?

Maybe in a square state.

 

[endoking]

Since you are so smart, perhaps you could make some Internet start-up where people can search the web and find any answer to any question imaginable. You could even name it google. And then when we have ******ed questions we could just search without having to reveal our stupidity to the rest of the world...

I haven't laughed so hard at anything I've ever read on SDN as this post
Thank you diesels, thank you

 

[tinman831]

Stay on topic please.

 

[bigstix808]

Stay on topic please.

i'm not really sure there is a point. i think everyone has pretty much made a mockery of Megatron's red headed adpopted step child (whom has a good GPA btw) and is not willing to answer his question(s). his post's are rather absurd and quite the slap in the face to the legit pre-dents that follow these forums; and besides, he already knows the source for his answers - the ADEA publications. and if not, then he can just type in "dentist salary" in that nice little search box in the upper right-hand corner about |<---------->| yay big.

 

[gryffindor]

You also have to understand, alot of what has too do with it is location. If you work in NYC or LI for instance your gonna make alot more than some one living in the middle of NY state. It also has too do with what you want, out of it. Do you want a practice, multiple practices, or work for some one? There is a point to this thread. After spending years in school you deffinatly want to be living the good life.

Actually, the opposite is more likely the truth in dentistry. NYC & LI are saturated with dentists. There are areas in the middle of NY state that have a shortage of dentists. Basic rules of supply & demand. Rural dentists can have some of the highest earning potential because they are the only show in town or in some states, the only dentist in an entire county.

 

[Stillmaticbeat]

hey guys i dont understand why a person always gets flamed when they mention money. it's not a bad question

from what i know. and im from upstate ny. i've shadowed a few omf surgeons. they had decent practices. they make a TON of money. more than 500k. im not sure cant say for sure but most omf guys say they make MORE THAN MOST DOCTORS. these are cushy private practices pulling 3rd molars and doing implants like its a factory though. i know this because my father is also a physician. and also, everyone always talks of stats and stats and stats. stats r BS. they say the avg gp makes 150 and the specialist 250. but there r gps that make more than specialists and vice versa. It depends completely on what type of practice you have. I have a neighbor who is LOADED. he is a GP, BUT he only does implants and cosmetics such as veneers and whitening. Do you think hes making only 150k. HELL NO. He is making at least 300k.

im not totally sure about orthodontics because i haven't shadowed one yet and I haven't talked to many people about it. but from what i hear from the OMF guys i shadow. THEY LIVE A BALLER LIFE. most work 40 or less hours a week. and in my area they make more than 400k.

ALL MY FIGURES ARE CREDIBLE. if you notice they are a lot higher than national avgs. these practices are all in the suburbs. Orthopedic surgeons in my area make 600-800k. im not discrediting you guys who say its much lower but I KNOW THIS FOR FACT. my father is an md as I stated earlier.

Dude dentistry is hot right now. if you want money. you will find it if you are not dumb. But you should really evaluate why you want to go into dentistry.

I asked myself the money question a ton of times. Not because I'm greedy or I want only money. But I want to be financially secure and I want to be sure that this profession will satisfy my needs. I think dentistry is an honorable profession and shouldn't be sought after for money alone

 

[dr bojangles]

ok, all jokes aside......transformers, yes there is money to be made in dentistry. not everyone's doing it for obvious reasons; not everyone is interested. case in point, i could make millions by getting my mba and running hedge funds from now til the end of time. but i have no interest there, so why would i pursue it? something else has to make you happy in your career beyond financial reward.
also, to stillmaticbeat, we are very aware of how much dentists and physicians make, we are all privy to such information. what you describe as the dentist "ballers" you know are the exceptions not the rule (not gonna lie, if it were the opposite we'd all be ecstatic)

 

[Stillmaticbeat]

i agree completely with you dr.bojangles. I never claimed everyone made so much money

BUT

if you are an OMF or a ortho in a private practice and you aren't making over ~350k. you are doing something terribly wrong. so that never happens. this is just general knowledge.

 

[Regmata]

i agree completely with you dr.bojangles. I never claimed everyone made so much money

BUT

if you are an OMF or a ortho in a private practice and you aren't making over ~350k. you are doing something terribly wrong. so that never happens. this is just general knowledge.

Not necessarily true...at all

 

[Stillmaticbeat]

regmata
i guess we just look at these specialties differently

 

[Regmata]

Or you just don't know what you are talking about...when the average salary of those specialties is under or right around 350k, it is a far cry from the truth to say that if you are not clearing 350k that you are doing something terribly wrong. Now I am well aware that it is very possible to make quite a bit more than the accepted average salaries given by the ADA and other firms, but different things are important to different people...

 

[tinman831]

[/B]if you are an OMF or a ortho in a private practice and you aren't making over ~350k. you are doing something terribly wrong. so that never happens. this is just general knowledge.

You could just be working less days out of the week.

 

[Golddanboy]

LOL if the median is around 350k then by Stillmaticbeat's definition; half of the doctors in those specialties are doing something 'terribly wrong'.

In any event back to topic; Its evident that Transformer would make a TERRIBLE dentist and theres probably a few things he should consider before deciding on his future profession.

-The amount of money a dentist makes is based directly on his/her proficiency with their hands. You could be an academic god in didactic courses but it means naught in the Dentist's chair. Also don't forget people skills ... its certainly not something that shows on on a transcript

-Transformer obviously don't care about people, an attribute that is simply asinine in any doctor; this makes makes me wonder if the post is just some lame joke. In any event Doctors of any kind deal with sick people and the more money you make, generally the more sick the patients are / the harder the operation. Not to sound like an afternoon special but Its a basic requirement that you enjoy what you do and feel inspired to help your patients or you'll just end up unhappy as well as unproductive (less $$$ LOL).

-Also why is money important? It would be ironic if you spent 10 years depressed while studying constantly because you thought money would make you happy. You WILL graduate in Debt and have dedicated arguably the best year of your life to something you don't care about. If you're trying to impress women then i would guess you would have more luck with an MD and probably a lot more luck as a business major (as in not on call).