How to get into a top surgical residency.

[HalfListic]

---

Members don't see this ad.

Both have small odds of happening, that's all I'm trying to say.

But its like saying my house, and mt everest, are big.

 

[Skeeks]

all this stats talk and generalization makes me bored. Is it possible to get a top agcme surgery residency? Possible, but improbable for a large majority of medical students. You work your ass off, and do more than your colleagues to stand out, and you have a shot. Blending in with the crowd and going with the flow does not a top acgme surgeon make. When your peers are all top students from around the country, it's hard to be the cream of the cream of the crop. Most people cannot do this and don't have the drive (or get burnt out) so it is easy to quote stats and say "i didn't have a chance anyway." but you always did (1% yo, make it happen)

yolo

 

[MedPR]

I see what you are trying to express...but the numbers we need are DO students who have actually attempted to apply to ACGME programs, then it can be a real conversation.

I cant assume that the number is really as low as you think it is (though it may be), or not.

I do assume its lower than MD ratios, though, so Ill give you that.

Idk about that. I know it sounds like I'm changing my mind, but hear me out.

In reality, I think most DO students who statistically are on par with MDs at the same ACGME are not willing to risk applying only to ACGME. As I understand it, the AOA match occurs first and if a DO matches AOA, they are automatically pulled from the ACGME match. So the only way a DO could guarantee an attempt at matching ACGME is if they don't rank any AOA schools. This fact alone reduces the number of DOs going to ACGMEs.

To take it one step further, I think most people are realistic about their chances and most DO students (like most MD students) know not to waste their top ranks on top tier schools that they have little to no chance at matching. So that probably lowers the number even more.

My point is that the ratio of DOs who rank top ACGME programs very high to DOs who match at top ACGME programs is likely much higher than the 15MCAT aceptee/applicant ratio. However, it's probably such a small sample size that it isn't a good indication of reality.

 

[HalfListic]

All this stats talk and generalization makes me bored. Is it possible to get a top AGCME surgery residency? Possible, but improbable for a large majority of medical students. You work your ass off, and do MORE than your colleagues to stand out, and you have a shot. Blending in with the crowd and going with the flow does not a top ACGME surgeon make. When your peers are all top students from around the country, it's hard to be the cream of the cream of the crop. Most people cannot do this and don't have the drive (or get burnt out) so it is easy to quote stats and say "i didn't have a chance anyway." But you always did (1% yo, make it happen)

I tire of talking about "top" programs. I don't think many people care about them...but I do think people are passionate about being able to choose the area of medicine they want to practice.

 

[DrWily]

I tire of talking about "top" programs. I don't think many people care about them...but I do think people are passionate about being able to choose the area of medicine they want to practice.

👍

 

[GopherMD]

But its like saying my house, and mt everest, are big.

1/1000 and 1/1000000 are both unrealistic. I'm not saying its chance that the OP could get into a top ACGME, but it would be bloody difficult

 

[HalfListic]

Idk about that. I know it sounds like I'm changing my mind, but hear me out.

In reality, I think most DO students who statistically are on par with MDs at the same ACGME are not willing to risk applying only to ACGME. As I understand it, the AOA match occurs first and if a DO matches AOA, they are automatically pulled from the ACGME match. So the only way a DO could guarantee an attempt at matching ACGME is if they don't rank any AOA schools. This fact alone reduces the number of DOs going to ACGMEs.

To take it one step further, I think most people are realistic about their chances and most DO students (like most MD students) know not to waste their top ranks on top tier schools that they have little to no chance at matching. So that probably lowers the number even more.

My point is that the ratio of DOs who rank top ACGME programs very high to DOs who match at top ACGME programs is likely much higher than the 15MCAT aceptee/applicant ratio. However, it's probably such a small sample size that it isn't a good indication of reality.

This is exactly what I was getting at (in bold)


And then the part in italics I don't argue at all either. I think the separation between those two scenarios and ideas was being blurred in this thread, so Im glad to see you separate them.

 

[HalfListic]

1/1000 and 1/1000000 is are both unrealistic. I'm not saying its chance that the OP could get into a top ACGME, but it would be bloody difficult

Im just saying that your comparison is inaccurate and worse, misleading. Difficult and impossible are very different.


But, you are wearing the hell out of that suit, Mr Hamm 😉

 

[cliquesh]

Idk about that. I know it sounds like I'm changing my mind, but hear me out.

In reality, I think most DO students who statistically are on par with MDs at the same ACGME are not willing to risk applying only to ACGME. As I understand it, the AOA match occurs first and if a DO matches AOA, they are automatically pulled from the ACGME match. So the only way a DO could guarantee an attempt at matching ACGME is if they don't rank any AOA schools. This fact alone reduces the number of DOs going to ACGMEs.

To take it one step further, I think most people are realistic about their chances and most DO students (like most MD students) know not to waste their top ranks on top tier schools that they have little to no chance at matching. So that probably lowers the number even more.

My point is that the ratio of DOs who rank top ACGME programs very high to DOs who match at top ACGME programs is likely much higher than the 15MCAT aceptee/applicant ratio. However, it's probably such a small sample size that it isn't a good indication of reality.

Just to let you know, ranking a "reach" has no impact on whatever falls below it. There isn't a strategy when making your rank list. You just list the places you interviewed at in the order that makes you most happy. You could rank 30 programs you didn't even interview at first and it will have no impact on your odds of matching your 31st choice.

 

[MedPR]

Just to let you know, ranking a "reach" has no impact on whatever falls below it. There isn't really a strategy when making your rank list. You just list the places you interviewed at in the order that makes you most happy.

Oh I guess I'm misunderstanding how the match works.

 

[GopherMD]

Im just saying that your comparison is inaccurate and worse, misleading. Difficult and impossible are very different.


But, you are wearing the hell out of that suit, Mr Hamm 😉

Haha thanks! I do what I can. Gotta look good for the new secretaries.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

To take it one step further, I think most people are realistic about their chances and most DO students (like most MD students) know not to waste their top ranks on top tier schools that they have little to no chance at matching. So that probably lowers the number even more.

Actually that's the biggest difference between the experience of DO applicants and MD applicants.

MD applicants can rank all the top programs they want - there is no "waste" involved as it in no way affects their likelihood of matching at their lower ranked programs.

DO applicants are faced with a different prospect because they have to play the odds of going all-in with the ACGME match (even if it is a reach) or the "safe" option of going to a DO residency.

 

[HalfListic]

Actually that's the biggest difference between the experience of DO applicants and MD applicants.

MD applicants can rank all the top programs they want - there is no "waste" involved as it in no way affects their likelihood of matching at their lower ranked programs.

DO applicants are faced with a different prospect because they have to play the odds of going all-in with the ACGME match (even if it is a reach) or the "safe" option of going to a DO residency.

I guess this all changes in 2015, right? It's been a while since I've looked at all the specifics that are changing…

 

[as1212559]

I see what you are trying to express...but the numbers we need are DO students who have actually attempted to apply to ACGME programs, then it can be a real conversation.

I cant assume that the number is really as low as you think it is (though it may be), or not.

I do assume its lower than MD ratios, though, so Ill give you that.

This is also flawed logic because it ignores the DOs that enter both matches, match AOA gsurg, and have to pull out of the ACGME match. If the DO student forgoes the AOA match entirely and applies ACGME gsurg they could be shooting themselves in the foot and end up scrambling into FM/IM or something so I would imagine that people tend to apply to both, maybe only ranking a few AOA spots that they would want and shotgun applying to as many ACGME programs as reasonable. Maybe if cliquesh gets bored and comments again he can comment on the validity of this.

All of this ignores the point. If you want to train at a top academic institution in surgery, you should try to go to an MD school. Your chances are going to be crap anyhow so you might as well not build any mountains for yourself to climb along the way.

 

[Ost3oclast]

Once 2015 hits, and there is one match, it will be much easier to see match percentages of DO's vs MD's. right now we all have to speculate that when applicant X went through the match, he was pulled from the ACGME after being selected for the AOA match. Or that applicant Y didn't apply AOA and went unmatched through ACGME. The speculation skews the numbers don't you guys think?

 

[HalfListic]

This is also flawed logic because it ignores the DOs that enter both matches, match AOA gsurg, and have to pull out of the ACGME match. If the DO student forgoes the AOA match entirely and applies ACGME gsurg they could be shooting themselves in the foot and end up scrambling into FM/IM or something so I would imagine that people tend to apply to both, maybe only ranking a few AOA spots that they would want and shotgun applying to as many ACGME programs as reasonable. Maybe if cliquesh gets bored and comments again he can comment on the validity of this.

All of this ignores the point. If you want to train at a top academic institution in surgery, you should try to go to an MD school. Your chances are going to be crap anyhow so you might as well not build any mountains for yourself to climb along the way.

Not sure what you are meaning, but no one is arguing with this. I think you may have missed the conversation that was being had and just commenting on the thread in general. No one cares about the "top program" argument anymore...(unfortunate thread title!)

in other words, yep, agreed...all along.

Once 2015 hits, and there is one match, it will be much easier to see match percentages of DO's vs MD's. right now we all have to speculate that when applicant X went through the match, he was pulled from the ACGME after being selected for the AOA match. Or that applicant Y didn't apply AOA and went unmatched through ACGME. The speculation skews the numbers don't you guys think?

👍

Exactly...its a guessing game.

To be honest, even after the unified match, it will still be problematic.

I think the only thing thats easy to establish is possibility, since its a yes or no. Im sure the difficulty discussion and comparison game will continue, but I bet it will continue to be misinterpreted as it is now.

 

[DrBumblebee]

...
To be honest, even after the unified match, it will still be problematic.
...

Actually, smart DOs would be ranking the "osteopathic focused" (not OMM) ACGME programs first, which used to be the AOA ones, and then the others after the unified match has been started.

 

[DrWily]

Actually, smart DOs would be ranking the "osteopathic focused" (not OMM) ACGME programs first, which used to be the AOA ones, and then the others after the unified match has been started.

No. Smart DOs would be ranking more "reach" ACGME programs first. Not being pulled out of the ACGME match due to an earlier AOA match is ridiculously awesome for DOs interested in more competitive specialties. This will allow DOs to not have to "choose" between AOA and ACGME matchs. However, it also opens up those previously DO-only AOA spots for potential MD applicants. Works both ways I guess.

 

[as1212559]

No. Smart DOs would be ranking more "reach" ACGME programs first. Not being pulled out of the ACGME match due to an earlier AOA match is ridiculously awesome for DOs interested in more competitive specialties. This will allow DOs to not have to "choose" between AOA and ACGME matchs. However, it also opens up those previously DO-only AOA spots for potential MD applicants. Works both ways I guess.

This.

 

[HalfListic]

Actually, smart DOs would be ranking the "osteopathic focused" (not OMM) ACGME programs first, which used to be the AOA ones, and then the others after the unified match has been started.

I was talking about it being problematic to compare MD vs DO, not a problem for DOs to match 😉

But, check out DrWiy's response for your comment

No. Smart DOs would be ranking more "reach" ACGME programs first. Not being pulled out of the ACGME match due to an earlier AOA match is ridiculously awesome for DOs interested in more competitive specialties. This will allow DOs to not have to "choose" between AOA and ACGME matchs. However, it also opens up those previously DO-only AOA spots for potential MD applicants. Works both ways I guess.

 

[DrBumblebee]

No. Smart DOs would be ranking more "reach" ACGME programs first. Not being pulled out of the ACGME match due to an earlier AOA match is ridiculously awesome for DOs interested in more competitive specialties. This will allow DOs to not have to "choose" between AOA and ACGME matchs. However, it also opens up those previously DO-only AOA spots for potential MD applicants. Works both ways I guess.

+1 for the bolded part, at least when looked at the unification process come 2015 from my (as well as many other US-DO school students') point of view(s).

However, you've been a champion supporting "DOs cannot match into competitive ACGME specialties" all over SDN. So, it shouldn't make any difference at your village.

 

[DrWily]

+1 for the bolded part, at least when looked at the unification process come 2015 from my (as well as many other US-DO school students') point of view(s).

However, you've been a champion supporting "DOs cannot match into competitive ACGME specialties" all over SDN. So, it shouldn't make any difference at your village.

I don't know what jibberish you are talking about. When have I ever been a "champion" saying DOs cannot match into competitive ACGME specialties? I'm a DO student and I'm interested in a competitive ACGME specialty. Doesn't make sense I would say something otherwise. I don't live in a village.

 

[Instatewaiter]

Could a resident/attending comment on why large academic centers are so desirable to train at? Is it simply because of the large volumes and greater varieties of pathologies coming in? To me, as someone interested in IM it would seem that I would want a reasonably sized hospital but one with a smaller number of residents. Having seen some bizarre pathology as a PGY1 standing behind 12 other residents seems like it is only appealing on paper and not always such a learning experience.

Insight appreciated.

A large academic center is desirable for a few reasons:
1) You see more. Stuff gets sent to large centers because they can do more and treat more.

2) People with rare/undiagnosed diseases go to big hospitals when other hospitals can't figure out what is wrong with them (see #1)

3) The best and brightest are at big centers- you learn from the best in the field from people doing things others don't know how to do.

4) Autonomy tends to be higher at big centers- this is also a function of the quality of residents they get. The stronger the resident, the more likely they are going to be able to handle autonomy.

5) The Volume is usually higher at large centers. This means those 12 resdents have other cool cases to see. While at small centers, the residents don't see cool cases so when one comes in everyone crowds around.

Agreed that the traditions won't soon change and DOs will be shunned where they always have been, but maybe you are forgetting about AOA slots, which dont take MDs at all...not just at a low rate, not at all (for good or bad).

That would be a good point if people actually wanted those AOA spots. More than half of the AOA general surgery programs have unfilled slots. That speaks volumes.

Most DOs shoot for ACGME programs.

 

[DrBumblebee]

I don't know what jibberish you are talking about. When have I ever been a "champion" saying DOs cannot match into competitive ACGME specialties? I'm a DO student and I'm interested in a competitive ACGME specialty. Doesn't make sense I would say something otherwise. I don't live in a village.

Ok, recorded... 👍

 

[HalfListic]

That would be a good point if people actually wanted those AOA spots. More than half of the AOA general surgery programs have unfilled slots. That speaks volumes.

Most DOs shoot for ACGME programs.

great, so GME isnt overwhelmed afterall

I dont argue that ACGME spots are sought after, but you are, again, overstating your point...

People are happy to get into the specialty they want. The program they want is secondary...there is no real exception to this, so your point fall flat.



Those volumes are being spoken in empty halls, my friend


Also, everyone shoots for any program they feel they could get (ACGME & AOA) and are happy to match.

 

[Instatewaiter]

For the residency: http://news.atsu.edu/index.php/archives/1561
What school did you attend if you dont mind me asking?

I don't think people realize how expensive post-graduate education. $4 million is pissing in the wind. That would cover 13 FM residents' post-grad education.

To give you an frame of reference, there are 100,000 current residents in the US.

The truth is you have just as much of a chance at a competitive residency from a DO standpoint as you do from a low teir MD school. I mean how many Rosilyn Franklin, Drexel, or Meharry students do you see in top programs? Really there shouldnt be a distinction between low teir MD schools and DO schools.

No you don't. Add up all the major medical centers from the top 10 DO schools and see if you come up with the high points from Drexel alone.

Here's the high points from the first Drexel match list i could find on google:
The Brigham (harvard)
BIDMC (Harvard) x2
HUP (ie Penn) x 7
Columbia x 4
UCLA x 5
Duke x 2
Cleveland Clinic x 2
Hopkins
Mt Sinai x 2
UCSF
Yale x 4
Cornell
UVA x 5
I stopped counting after this

http://webcampus.drexelmed.edu/cdc/2011-MatchList.asp

MD applicants can rank all the top programs they want - there is no "waste" involved as it in no way affects their likelihood of matching at their lower ranked programs.

Considering more than half of DOs end up in ACGME training programs already, your logic is flawwed.

 

[Instatewaiter]

People are happy to get into the specialty they want. The program they want is secondary...there is no real exception to this, so your point fall flat.

Also, everyone shoots for any program they feel they could get (ACGME & AOA) and are happy to match.

I love how a pre-med is telling a soon to be fellow how the match works. Come back in 4 years and tell me I was right.

 

[HalfListic]

I love how a pre-med is telling a soon to be fellow how the match works. Come back in 4 years and tell me I was right.

I love how this is always the argument when resident's run out of hot air.



PS My repeated point on this thread is that most people dont care as much to get into a "top" program, as much as to get into their specialty. If you can show me that I'm wrong, feel free. This has nothing to do with the match process, by the way.

If DO's cared that much about getting into a "top" program, they would/should have done an SMP and gone MD. But they dont, so this whole argument is quite imaginary or at largely irrelevant.

 

[cliquesh]

great, so GME isnt overwhelmed afterall

I dont argue that ACGME spots are sought after, but you are, again, overstating your point...

People are happy to get into the specialty they want. The program they want is secondary...there is no real exception to this, so your point fall flat.



Those volumes are being spoken in empty halls, my friend


Also, everyone shoots for any program they feel they could get (ACGME & AOA) and are happy to match.

6 of the 135 AOA general surgery spots did not fill during the AOA match this year. I don't where he got half go unfilled.

http://www.natmatch.com/aoairp/stats/2013prgstats.html if anyone is interested

 

[HalfListic]

6 of the 135 AOA general surgery spots did not fill during the AOA match this year. I don't where he got half go unfilled.

maybe its information they only give you when you are "almost a fellow"?

 

[Ost3oclast]

6 of the 135 AOA general surgery spots did not fill during the AOA match this year. I don't where he got half go unfilled.

http://www.natmatch.com/aoairp/stats/2013prgstats.html if anyone is interested

I've always wondered...... (and forgive my pre med mind here) with those unfilled spots, were there not applicants that didn't successfully match that could have filled those spots in the scramble? Or were there not enough applicants to fill those spots?

 

[HalfListic]

I've always wondered...... (and forgive my pre med mind here) with those unfilled spots, were there not applicants that didn't successfully match that could have filled those spots in the scramble? Or were there not enough applicants to fill those spots?

not a bad question at all...heres a good resource to see how the match works (its crazy!) and why slots stay open:

http://www.nrmp.org/res_match/faq/io_pd_faq.html#17


in short, slots that are unfilled do have a chance of being filled during the supplemental (SOAP) week.

Someone can correct me if Im wrong


** also, I just heard this recently and wondered if it were true. I heard that if a program continues to have unmatched spots, the state can re-alocate those funds and create more spots in a more needed specialty, since money to open new GME spots is tied to medicaid, which is strapped.

 

[cliquesh]

I've always wondered...... (and forgive my pre med mind here) with those unfilled spots, were there not applicants that didn't successfully match that could have filled those spots in the scramble? Or were there not enough applicants to fill those spots?

Usually it's because someone messed up. Either the program director didn't rank enough applicants or the applicant didn't rank enough programs. Those numbers are PRE-scramble. The match was yesterday and today people are interviewing for scramble positions. Most, if not all, of those spots will fill post scramble...at least for the competitive stuff. There will always be FM/IM/internships open.

 

[Ost3oclast]

Usually it's because someone messed up. Either the program director didn't rank enough applicants or the applicant didn't rank enough programs. Those numbers are PRE-scramble. The match was yesterday and today people are interviewing for scramble positions. Most, if not all, of those spots will fill post scramble.

So if the program doesnt fill post scramble, there is no last ditch opportunity for anybody to fill the spots? That sucks for unmatched applicants AND the program that loses the ability to utilize one more resident.

Thanks for the info Half

 

[cliquesh]

So if the program doesnt fill post scramble, there is no last ditch opportunity for anybody to fill the spots? That sucks for unmatched applicants AND the program that loses the ability to utilize one more resident.

Thanks for the info Half

I'm not sure. You may be able to sign outside the match at a latter date.

Overall, 22% of those who participated in the AOA match this year failed to match. I think this fact made me a little pissy yesterday, which was reflected in my negative posts. Lots of people in my class failed to match EM. Ortho seems like the number 2 failure.

 

[DrBumblebee]

Usually it's because someone messed up. Either the program director didn't rank enough applicants or the applicant didn't rank enough programs. Those numbers are PRE-scramble. The match was yesterday and today people are interviewing for scramble positions. Most, if not all, of those spots will fill post scramble...at least for the competitive stuff. There will always be FM/IM/internships open.

Why doesn't a program director rank enough applicants? Due to possible financial problems or lack of experience?

 

[HalfListic]

Why doesn't a program director rank enough applicants? Due to possible financial problems or lack of experience?

If thats ever the case, then its sort of like how a med school will accept about double the amount of seats they have. They do that because not everyone accepted will choose to go there. Same with the match...you need to "overbook" to fill your spots.

So if the program doesnt fill post scramble, there is no last ditch opportunity for anybody to fill the spots? That sucks for unmatched applicants AND the program that loses the ability to utilize one more resident.

Thanks for the info Half

No problem...

and, as far as I know, SOAP(which is explained in that link) was introduced to help improve the efficiency of the scramble. Its longer and more organized, given PDs and applicants a better chance of finding love in all the right places 😍

 

[Ost3oclast]

I'm not sure. You may be able to sign outside the match at a latter date.

Overall, 22% of those who participated in the AOA match this year failed to match. I think this fact made me a little pissy yesterday, which was reflected in my negative posts. Lots of people in my class failed to match EM. Ortho seems like the number 2 failure.

Ortho would make sense because of the competitiveness right? Seems like EM is becoming more competitive every year too.

 

[Instatewaiter]

6 of the 135 AOA general surgery spots did not fill during the AOA match this year. I don't where he got half go unfilled.

http://www.natmatch.com/aoairp/stats/2013prgstats.html if anyone is interested

http://opportunities.osteopathic.or...essionid=f030ca20d438bc2db34f55c32312a267494d

Go through the general surgery programs and see the AOA verified numbers. Very few of them are actually filled for all 5 years.

 

[cliquesh]

Why doesn't a program director rank enough applicants? Due to possible financial problems or lack of experience?

They're just cocky. I know one ER program, for example, that got 900 applicants for 14 spots. They interview about 100 and only rank 50.

Ortho would make sense because of the competitiveness right? Seems like EM is becoming more competitive every year too.

EM is super competitive. Not really from a stats perspective, but from the sheer volume of people interested in EM. Ortho, on the other hand, is stat driven. You really need, so it seems, to get above the 90th percentile on the comlex to match orthopedics.

 

[HalfListic]

http://opportunities.osteopathic.or...essionid=f030ca20d438bc2db34f55c32312a267494d

Go through the general surgery programs and see the AOA verified numbers. Very few of them are actually filled for all 5 years.

You do know the meaning of the words "half" and "very few", right? Its ok, even for a resident, to admit that they have overstated their position and just move on.

I actually am grateful for a lot of the info you have shared on this thread. You opinions and interpretations have been less enlightening, unfortunately.

 

[HalfListic]

They're just cocky. I know one ER program, for example, that got 900 applicants for 14 spots. They interview about 100 and only rank 50.



EM is super competitive. Not really from a stats perspective, but from the sheer volume of people interested in EM. Ortho, on the other hand, is stat driven. You really need, so it seems, to get above the 90th percentile on the comlex to match orthopedics.

👍


Hopefully your match goes well

 

[DrBumblebee]

They're just cocky. I know one ER program, for example, that got 900 applicants for 14 spots. They interview about 100 and only rank 50.

Thanks for the insider info, cliquesh. It sort of makes sense, though. Given that many applicants each year to rank shouldn't be a fun job.

Hope the match season's been going great for you. Seems like you'r up to EM. Did you go for AOA?

 

[GopherMD]

I'm not sure. You may be able to sign outside the match at a latter date.

Overall, 22% of those who participated in the AOA match this year failed to match. I think this fact made me a little pissy yesterday, which was reflected in my negative posts. Lots of people in my class failed to match EM. Ortho seems like the number 2 failure.

Of the 22%, how many do you think (know) also failed to match ACGME? 22% seems like a high number.

 

[cliquesh]

Thanks for the insider info, cliquesh. It sort of makes sense, though. Given that many applicants each year to rank shouldn't be a fun job.

Hope the match season's been going great for you. Seems like you'r up to EM. Did you go for AOA?

Nope, not EM. Anesthiology for me. I only applied to Acgme programs.

Of the 22%, how many do you think (know) also failed to match ACGME? 22% seems like a high number.

I agree, it is high. The Acgme match is in march. Last year, 75% of the DOs that applied Acgme matched.

If you go to a DO school, you'll likely find a residency somewhere...it might not be the speciality you're interested in, but you'll match. If you do slightly above average, like a 230 on the usmle, you'll be fine. You will have plenty of option and you'll match at a mid level university program for something.

 

[Instatewaiter]

You do know the meaning of the words "half" and "very few", right? Its ok, even for a resident, to admit that they have overstated their position and just move on.

Perhaps you should actually look at that link before acting like you know what's up. When I said very few are filled, I was insinuating that less than half of them were filled.

In truth only 18 of 50 are filled in all 5 years. 32/50 are unfilled in at least 1 year Ha!

I love how this is always the argument when resident's run out of hot air.

I do think it's funny when first or 2nd year med students act like they know about how the match and residency selection work... but a pre-med. Ha! Next you can tell me what residency is like or how to do well on step 1. What a joke. In 4 years, when you've gone through the match, come back here and tell us about your experience.

 

[GypsyHummus]

Nope, not EM. Anesthiology for me. I only applied to Acgme programs.



I agree, it is high. The Acgme match is in march. Last year, 70% of the DOs that applied Acgme matched.

If you go to a DO school, you'll likely find a residency somewhere...it might not be the speciality you're interested in, but you'll match. If you do slightly above average, like a 230 on the usmle, you'll be fine. You will have plenty of option and you'll match at a mid level university program for something.

how hard is it to get into any type of surgery as a DO? I know general surgery is the easiest to match into but what about ortho, ENT, Uro, etc

 

[HalfListic]

I do think it's funny when first or 2nd year med students act like they know about how the match and residency selection work... but a pre-med. Ha! Next you can tell me what residency is like or how to do well on step 1. What a joke. In 4 years, when you've gone through the match, come back here and tell us about your experience.

ok you win.

 

[cliquesh]

how hard is it to get into any type of surgery as a DO? I know general surgery is the easiest to match into but what about ortho, ENT, Uro, etc

General surgery is the easiest. If you score around the 60th percentile on the comlex you'll probably match AOA general surgery somewhere. Ortho is probably the next realistic option. There were 100 ortho spots this year. You do, however, need to get around the 90th percentile and rotate at the program to even have a shot at matching. Then, after that, I'm not sure. There are like 24 ENT spots, 17 urology, 16 ophtho, and 14 neurosurgery spots. With numbers so small, you need good scores, but who you know becomes more important. I do not know how most people did in the match this year at my school, but I know at least 3 matched ortho, 2 matched general surgery, 1 urology, 1 neurosurgery, 1 ophtho( this one was Acgme, though).

 

[K31]

No. Smart DOs would be ranking more "reach" ACGME programs first. Not being pulled out of the ACGME match due to an earlier AOA match is ridiculously awesome for DOs interested in more competitive specialties. This will allow DOs to not have to "choose" between AOA and ACGME matchs. However, it also opens up those previously DO-only AOA spots for potential MD applicants. Works both ways I guess.

Correct. For those of you applying in 2015 and later, when there (probably) will be a combined match--rank your dream programs first, then the safer programs. If you don't match at your reach programs, your chance of matching at your backup programs is the same as if you'd ranked them #1. That's how the Match works, and why it's said to "favor the applicant".