How to not get into med school with a 40 MCAT

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Spinach Dip

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So, if you: kicked the MCAT's ass, have a Masters, have research posters and publications, an average GPA, good ECs, and a medical history which has left you with an amazing personal statement, you might think getting into medical school would be easy!

Well I'm here to tell you how to avoid those 8 years of terrifying education! Just follow the check-off list below:

-Have no savings and zero family members willing to loan you money.
-Live in the northwest (so you have only 1 state school, and 1 other within 200 miles).
-Live in an area with high unemployment so you can only find part-time work as a chemistry tutor.
-Have a mother who makes a couple dollars above the FAP cutoff line.
-And you get bonus points if your father left the family when you were half-way through undergrad and left you (and your mother) with nothing more than a $50,000 past-due balance across a dozen credit cards.



Ok. Let's be serious now.

I DIDN'T start this thread to complain about life pissing in my cheerios. I DID start this thread to bring attention to the fact that the largest barrier to myself (and many others) is the simple fact that we cannot afford the required application fees or the airfare to actually interview at schools where the chance of acceptance is a couple percent.

If I finished primaries and secondaries to all the schools I wanted to apply to this year, it would come to a total of $3,000. If I attended interviews at all those schools, the total would come to $15,000. That's for less than 20 schools. I hope I don't have to explain that this is a completely absurd amount for someone who can barely afford rent and groceries every month.

The only reasonable thing for me to do is apply to my lone in-state school and pray that I get in. Even though my GPA and MCAT don't match their averages and my history does not really meet their mission statement, it is the only option I can actually afford.



Hypocrisy is a funny thing.

Let's rewind to early 2015. Why was the MCAT changed? Specifically, why was the social sciences section added? The most reasonable explanation I have heard is that there was a desire to see applicants have some sort of background and understanding of concepts of social justice.

So if social justice has become so important in the past years, why do we accept an application system which gives massive advantages to those born into wealthy (or at minimum, financially stable) households who have $15,000 or more sitting in a drawer somewhere.

I have known some very spoiled kids. Those who receive cars on their birthday and get to go on mission trips to Nicaragua, Namibia, and the Philippines (all in 1 summer) because they asked daddy for a check. The same kids who can afford private tutors and have 4.0's and do volunteer work at homeless shelters and hate every minute of it. The kids who complain about getting a B+ on a test and can afford to go through 15 mock interviews so they come off as completely normal and well-adjusted individuals.

I have $23.68 in my bank account right now, and I'm trying to compete against these individuals in a game where thousands of dollars are required to even be allowed through the door.

But yeah. Social justice.



What to do?

There are options available which would fix this problem, or if not FIX, at least level the playing field somewhat. Some of these could cost absurd amounts of money and/or valuable time. I think the simplest and least expensive is this:

Each applicant is allowed to waive the primary and secondary fees for up to 10 schools.

If this was a thing, every applicant would be able to apply to 10 schools regardless of their personal finances. If some applicant wants to apply to 40 schools, that's fine, but they have to pay for 30 of them.

But what about the more expensive part? You may ask. What about interviews? Those are less of a concern to me because one can't even get an interview if they can't finish primaries and secondaries.

Another idea would be to perform interviews via skype, but whenever that idea is brought up (either online or in person) it is shot down as: impractical, not providing insight into the applicant, and potentially confusing. It's a possibility, but I think it is much less likely to happen within my lifetime.



They already have that! It's called FAP!

FAP is worthless. I was told (in response to an "im confused" email) that I needed to provide tax statements for each of my parent's incomes. When I responded that I have spoken to my father a total of 2 times in the past 5 years, I was told that was not a consideration and I needed to provide official documentation of his income anyway.

On top of this, my mother makes slightly above the cutoff. So even though her greatest financial support of me in the past several years has been the occasional Subway gift card (thanks mom!), the fact that she has a job is enough to disqualify me. Even if my father was dead, she would make too much.

I suppose if both my parent were dead, I might qualify. Or if they were together and made less than $40,000/yr, I might qualify if I could convince them to provide me with official documentation of their incomes.

FAP strikes me as a charitable endeavor which was started up with the idea of acting like a charity, but was created with so many roadblocks and a ton of bureaucracy so they don't have to hand out money to anyone. Great charity.



I have nothing more to say.

It's dinner time, so I'm going to reheat some rice and old chicken, then wash it down with a big glass of tap water. Have a nice day.
 
Yea fees are dumb and fee-assistance is stupidly stingy.
 
I am not saying this is quote is directed to you, but to me reading it really puts things into perspective and gives me a different outlook on the med school application process. One I think that will help you as well.

"If it makes you feel better to blame all your problems on circumstances beyond your control, then go for it. Wallow in it and stagnate. As an alternative, embrace your challenges. Think about how competent you'll be when you talk to patients in poverty who have diet-related chronic illnesses and how your experience with a plant-based diet can be useful in counseling."
 
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Why don't you take a gap year, work, save up a bit, and then apply? Thats what I did. My parents are not well off neither. I didn't ask them for any money.
 
Sorry to hear that Spinach Dip 🙁 I assumed that you were already in med school since you were the author of the famous Spinach Dip MCAT prep method. The system is still unfair and I feel that family income is not taken into account as much as it should.

Did you really only apply to one school?
 
I'm so sorry. I couldn't get fee assistance either for similarly stupid reasons. I called the office directly to explain my situation and they were just like "no, nope, no chance, sucks to be you, goodbye."
 
Why don't you take a gap year, work, save up a bit, and then apply? Thats what I did. My parents are not well off neither. I didn't ask them for any money.

I took my MCAT 2.5 years ago. It expires after this cycle.
 
So, if you: kicked the MCAT's ass, have a Masters, have research posters and publications, an average GPA, good ECs, and a medical history which has left you with an amazing personal statement, you might think getting into medical school would be easy!

Well I'm here to tell you how to avoid those 8 years of terrifying education! Just follow the check-off list below:

-Have no savings and zero family members willing to loan you money.
-Live in the northwest (so you have only 1 state school, and 1 other within 200 miles).
-Live in an area with high unemployment so you can only find part-time work as a chemistry tutor.
-Have a mother who makes a couple dollars above the FAP cutoff line.
-And you get bonus points if your father left the family when you were half-way through undergrad and left you (and your mother) with nothing more than a $50,000 past-due balance across a dozen credit cards.



Ok. Let's be serious now.

I DIDN'T start this thread to complain about life pissing in my cheerios. I DID start this thread to bring attention to the fact that the largest barrier to myself (and many others) is the simple fact that we cannot afford the required application fees or the airfare to actually interview at schools where the chance of acceptance is a couple percent.

If I finished primaries and secondaries to all the schools I wanted to apply to this year, it would come to a total of $3,000. If I attended interviews at all those schools, the total would come to $15,000. That's for less than 20 schools. I hope I don't have to explain that this is a completely absurd amount for someone who can barely afford rent and groceries every month.

The only reasonable thing for me to do is apply to my lone in-state school and pray that I get in. Even though my GPA and MCAT don't match their averages and my history does not really meet their mission statement, it is the only option I can actually afford.



Hypocrisy is a funny thing.

Let's rewind to early 2015. Why was the MCAT changed? Specifically, why was the social sciences section added? The most reasonable explanation I have heard is that there was a desire to see applicants have some sort of background and understanding of concepts of social justice.

So if social justice has become so important in the past years, why do we accept an application system which gives massive advantages to those born into wealthy (or at minimum, financially stable) households who have $15,000 or more sitting in a drawer somewhere.

I have known some very spoiled kids. Those who receive cars on their birthday and get to go on mission trips to Nicaragua, Namibia, and the Philippines (all in 1 summer) because they asked daddy for a check. The same kids who can afford private tutors and have 4.0's and do volunteer work at homeless shelters and hate every minute of it. The kids who complain about getting a B+ on a test and can afford to go through 15 mock interviews so they come off as completely normal and well-adjusted individuals.

I have $23.68 in my bank account right now, and I'm trying to compete against these individuals in a game where thousands of dollars are required to even be allowed through the door.

But yeah. Social justice.



What to do?

There are options available which would fix this problem, or if not FIX, at least level the playing field somewhat. Some of these could cost absurd amounts of money and/or valuable time. I think the simplest and least expensive is this:

Each applicant is allowed to waive the primary and secondary fees for up to 10 schools.

If this was a thing, every applicant would be able to apply to 10 schools regardless of their personal finances. If some applicant wants to apply to 40 schools, that's fine, but they have to pay for 30 of them.

But what about the more expensive part? You may ask. What about interviews? Those are less of a concern to me because one can't even get an interview if they can't finish primaries and secondaries.

Another idea would be to perform interviews via skype, but whenever that idea is brought up (either online or in person) it is shot down as: impractical, not providing insight into the applicant, and potentially confusing. It's a possibility, but I think it is much less likely to happen within my lifetime.



They already have that! It's called FAP!

FAP is worthless. I was told (in response to an "im confused" email) that I needed to provide tax statements for each of my parent's incomes. When I responded that I have spoken to my father a total of 2 times in the past 5 years, I was told that was not a consideration and I needed to provide official documentation of his income anyway.

On top of this, my mother makes slightly above the cutoff. So even though her greatest financial support of me in the past several years has been the occasional Subway gift card (thanks mom!), the fact that she has a job is enough to disqualify me. Even if my father was dead, she would make too much.

I suppose if both my parent were dead, I might qualify. Or if they were together and made less than $40,000/yr, I might qualify if I could convince them to provide me with official documentation of their incomes.

FAP strikes me as a charitable endeavor which was started up with the idea of acting like a charity, but was created with so many roadblocks and a ton of bureaucracy so they don't have to hand out money to anyone. Great charity.



I have nothing more to say.

It's dinner time, so I'm going to reheat some rice and old chicken, then wash it down with a big glass of tap water. Have a nice day.


+1. Same family and financial and MCAT situation as you. I've been lucky enough to be able to apply this cycle to a wide range of schools thanks to my single-parent dad, who has struggled to find a job in his sector for years and finally found one last year.

If he hadn't, I would have been forced to sell myself on rentboy.com (before the Feds shut it down).
 
I am not saying this is quote is directed to you, but to me reading it really puts things into perspective and gives me a different outlook on the med school application process. One I think that will help you as well.

"If it makes you feel better to blame all your problems on circumstances beyond your control, then go for it. Wallow in it and stagnate. As an alternative, embrace your challenges. Think about how competent you'll be when you talk to patients in poverty who have diet-related chronic illnesses and how your experience with a plant-based diet can be useful in counseling."

Challenges embraced.

But you are talking about personal outlook, not anything which can practically help the situation.
 
Challenges embraced.

But you are talking about personal outlook, not anything which can practically help the situation.
Okay so lets then try to find what you can do

You say in your area the only job that is available is a part time tutoring position. Are you taking a gap year? Are you independent from your family? Are there loved ones (significant other) that restricts you to relocate? The ultimate question is, why can't you relocate?

The economy is not as bad as it was seven years ago. If you want a job you can get one. Maybe not in your current location, but definitely somewhere. If you do not have a valid reason to stay where you are, relocation is a must. A bachelor's will get you a research assistant position, most labs are willing to accept people that show a willingness to learn and a good work ethic. Do not be in the mindset that a premed cannot find a gap year job. I think that is completely untrue, speaking from personal experience and that every applicant from my undergrad has found a one-year job. You have publications, you will find a position that pays at least $27k, which will squeak you by the application cycle.
 
I'm in a similar boat. If I do happen to get accepted, but without a half decent scholarship or a magical cosigner appearing, I'm gonna pull the hail mary deferral and hope I win the lottery (or alternatively work my ass off for 12 months and hope it's enough to appease the bank/admin powers).
 
I'm in a similar boat. If I do happen to get accepted, but without a half decent scholarship or a magical cosigner appearing, I'm gonna pull the hail mary deferral and hope I win the lottery (or alternatively work my ass off for 12 months and hope it's enough to appease the bank/admin powers).
Well if you do get accepted, it's easier to get money from the feds.
 
Sorry to hear that Spinach Dip 🙁 I assumed that you were already in med school since you were the author of the famous Spinach Dip MCAT prep method. The system is still unfair and I feel that family income is not taken into account as much as it should.

Did you really only apply to one school?

This^^^^

I attribute a lot of my MCAT success to your guide Spinach! Keep your head up! You still have a good chance!!!
 
Very sorry to hear of your woes, Spinach. Work, save up your money, retake MCAT, and apply when able. Med schools aren't going anywhere.

Are you at least able to apply to your state school?

There was a thread very recently here on how to stretch dollars when money is extremely tight. Suggest relocating to a region where jobs are more plentiful.

But this is no time for resentment or jealously. There will always be people who are better off and worse off than we are.
 
Are you in a position to apply for a few credit cards that have introductory 0% APR periods? I have heard of people paying all their app fees with a credit card, then only paying the monthly minimum, then getting their loan money before the introductory period ends. If you can get one, even with a limit as low as $1500, that is still huge and would let you apply to a good number of schools
 
It's like we were born from the same determined, financially crippled embryo. Both parents have great educations, but horrible financial prowess. It's not that they're unwilling to help, it's that they're dealing with their own crippling debt and, just like I, don't have two dimes to rub together.

I live in Utah, and outside of the U of U, the nearest medical school is... not accepting of OOS. I have 4 IIs - 1 in West Virginia, 1 in Tennessee, 1 in Texas, and 1 (thank god) at the U of U. I still haven't even figured out how to approach transportation. My POS Malibu wouldn't be able to roll down the hill to the nearest bus stop to take me to jack **** anywhere. Just cross my fingers and hope my in-state takes a chance, right? I've stopped submitting secondaries because the financial burden.

So, the only difference between you and I... is that I have $32. Haha, sucker. 😳
 
Okay so lets then try to find what you can do

You say in your area the only job that is available is a part time tutoring position. Are you taking a gap year? Are you independent from your family? Are there loved ones (significant other) that restricts you to relocate? The ultimate question is, why can't you relocate?

The economy is not as bad as it was seven years ago. If you want a job you can get one. Maybe not in your current location, but definitely somewhere. If you do not have a valid reason to stay where you are, relocation is a must. A bachelor's will get you a research assistant position, most labs are willing to accept people that show a willingness to learn and a good work ethic. Do not be in the mindset that a premed cannot find a gap year job. I think that is completely untrue, speaking from personal experience and that every applicant from my undergrad has found a one-year job. You have publications, you will find a position that pays at least $27k, which will squeak you by the application cycle.

This is exactly what I thought; relocate. I'd do whatever and be like "Texas, here I come."

This totally sucks for you, but as a smart man once said, "It may not be your fault, but it is your problem," meaning be solutions oriented. You've worked hard. You are smart, and when you are done, you are going to have a very inspiring story to share with others. Don't give up!
 
I would donate also. And depending on your credit you might be able to get a loan from the bank or get a decent credit card 5 to 10 thousand limit. It's not a great option but it'll get you by. Many credit cards will give you X number of months of no interest. Then you can cancel the card and transfer the balance to a new one. You could bounce this around until you get your med school loans and then pay it off with a chunk of that money. Idk if this is a good idea but it's something
 
Hey, I would donate as well. Your MCAT plan really helped me out when I took it. I also suggest maybe adapting your plan to the New MCAT and self publishing it via Amazon. I'm sure many a premed would be interested in it.
 
Sorry to hear about this, OP. As a nontrad, I had the luxury of a decent paying job for 2 years, which allowed me to save up for application fees and interview costs. Can you move back in with your mom instead of paying rent every month? That'll save you quite a bit every month.
 
I get that you are mad and upset at the unfairness of the world. The world is a cold place, especially as you say for those of us who were not blessed financially and grew up in rough situations/ have had rough lives. Unfortunately, it is the cruel reality that for many of us, there is nobody offering their hand in aid. We have to work harder, be more driven. Thankfully we live in a country where we are able to accomplish our dreams if we are driven enough to do so. Sure, our time and our journey may be much more difficult than others, but if we focus less on that and more on what exactly we can do that is within our own power to improve our situation, then I refuse to believe that we cannot overcome. Ask yourself instead of blaming or even getting angry at outside factors, what have you done to improve your own situation? As others have said on this thread, have you looked for work further from home? Have you looked into a 0% APR credit card to finance your interviews and apps for a short period? Have you looked for work outside of your field, doing tutoring on the side? Sure it may not be what you want to do, but it will help your current situation. There are many things you can do, many will probably not involve what you want to do. However, they are a means to an end. Point is, that in times of challenge and let's face it life is one giant challenge. You and You only are your greatest inhibitor to success. Only through drive, determination and perseverance can you accomplish what you truly want.
 
I appreciate the positive words, but I must inform you all that I DO have a plan if my 3 apps this year result in no acceptances. Yes, it involves relocating. No, I'm not going to go into great detail here.

But I did not create this thread to complain about my own lot. I made it to let others know that this situation is a reality which a large number of individuals are facing.
 
best wishes for a good outcome this cycle with your three apps.

I'm guessing that you live at home now. If this cycle doesn't work out, then is it possible for you and your mom to relocate where there are more med schools? Texas was suggested and that's a good idea,

Mississippi only has one med school, I think, but it seems to accept every qualified instate applicant since it only accepts instate students.

Alabama only has two med schools, but if you're qualified, getting into at least one of them isn't difficult....and there are other med schools that aren't that far away to apply to (Vandy and Emory).

Since it sounds like you and your mom would need to relocate to an area where the cost of living is low, then the Southeast should be considered.

the west coast can be brutal for acceptances.

Good luck!
 
Need money to make money is a real thing!
Crowdfunding? It has worked for reeeaallly strange things...
Srsly. All you ever had to do was post a paypal link on your Spinach Dip method page (which I have referenced about a bajillion times) saying, "Hey, if this helped you, consider donating $10 to help me apply to medical school, because I don't know how I am going to afford it."

Then post a follow up thread in this forum with the link--for those of us who don't need to reference your awesome post anymore.

Then open that 0% APR credit card someone else mentioned, apply like hell, and have some faith.

Tbh, tho, the way you're talking ("Three schools. I think.") reminds me a fair bit of some really smart, really poor, really depressed people I know.

You didn't strike me as someone who would let a few grand slow you down for 2.5 years, or someone who doesn't know the value of helping and being helped. Maybe you have other reasons for hesitating on medical school?

Or maybe you just don't know how much you have truly been of value to a great many people, including me, who couldn't afford fancy MCAT tutors. Maybe you don't realize how much you've done to get disadvantaged people into medicine so we can come back and bring medical care to our underserved communities.

But you did all that. It's a lot. Get paid!
 
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If you set up a GoFundMe I'd donate man. So sorry to hear about all the s**t you're being put through. Stay strong buddy
 
Now you know why -among a myriad of other reasons- on aggregate medical students come from upper class families.

America is the land of the free - as long as you are part of the plutocracy.
couldn't agree more
 
Regardless of how we feel about this "evil, discriminatory system", we can at least agree that FAP really needs to be overhauled. Likewise, all medical schools should follow the lead of Mayo/Vanderbilt/UCSF etc. by imposing very heavy pre-secondary screening as efficient, cost-cutting measures (and no, the screening process really isn't cost-inducing)

The @Spinach Dip proposal of waiving primary and secondary fees for the first 10 schools is a sound one. The burden of application costs on applicants is severely reduced and smart school lists are encouraged. There is no reason for schools to enjoy revenue from application fees when they can acquire much more elsewhere; and if the schools are really losing money, they should cut costs in amenities.
 
Regardless of how we feel about this "evil, discriminatory system", we can at least agree that FAP really needs to be overhauled. Likewise, all medical schools should follow the lead of Mayo/Vanderbilt/UCSF etc. by imposing very heavy pre-secondary screening as efficient, cost-cutting measures (and no, the screening process really isn't cost-inducing)

The @Spinach Dip proposal of waiving primary and secondary fees for the first 10 schools is a sound one. The burden of application costs on applicants is severely reduced and smart school lists are encouraged. There is no reason for schools to enjoy revenue from application fees when they can acquire much more elsewhere; and if the schools are really losing money, they should cut costs in amenities.


I think seeing such come to fruition is quiet dubious. Schools are not apt to reduce costs for students in anyway, only increase them. Sad but true. And all schools are hoping that daddy or mommy will help little Tiger along the way.

https://doctororbust.wordpress.com/2013/11/09/applying-to-medical-school-how-i-was-left-with-3/

Seems like stuffing money away & planning ahead is the big way most people will make it through this venture.
 
Regardless of how we feel about this "evil, discriminatory system", we can at least agree that FAP really needs to be overhauled. Likewise, all medical schools should follow the lead of Mayo/Vanderbilt/UCSF etc. by imposing very heavy pre-secondary screening as efficient, cost-cutting measures (and no, the screening process really isn't cost-inducing)

The @Spinach Dip proposal of waiving primary and secondary fees for the first 10 schools is a sound one. The burden of application costs on applicants is severely reduced and smart school lists are encouraged. There is no reason for schools to enjoy revenue from application fees when they can acquire much more elsewhere; and if the schools are really losing money, they should cut costs in amenities.
Mayo actually imposes this screen AFTER you cough up $120 :/
 
The whole process of becoming, functioning, and excelling as a physician generally follows the Boy Scout's Motto: "Always be prepared."
 
I think seeing such come to fruition is quiet dubious. Schools are not apt to reduce costs for students in anyway, only increase them. Sad but true. And all schools are hoping that daddy or mommy will help little Tiger along the way.

https://doctororbust.wordpress.com/2013/11/09/applying-to-medical-school-how-i-was-left-with-3/

Seems like stuffing money away & planning ahead is the big way most people will make it through this venture.
Mayo actually imposes this screen AFTER you cough up $120 :/

You know, given the whole emphasis on standardized exams, you'd expect the schools to follow a standardized screening process beyond the scope of just looking at the AMCAS primary....
 
I feel for ya Spinach, I really do. I had to sell some of my stuff to pay for MCAT books.

That said, I'm so sick of hearing that medical schools don't care about poor kids. The process is expensive and taxing but there really is a lot of assistance at every step of the way. Sure, there are flaws and some kids fall through the cracks (my sympathies), but to make a broad sweeping statement that med schools don't care about the poor is foolish.
 
Move to Texas! You will be a shoe-in. For most schools in Texas, MCAT scores are valid for 5 years.

I feel for ya Spinach, I really do. I had to sell some of my stuff to pay for MCAT books.

That said, I'm so sick of hearing that medical schools don't care about poor kids. The process is expensive and taxing but there really is a lot of assistance at every step of the way. Sure, there are flaws and some kids fall through the cracks (my sympathies), but to make a broad sweeping statement that med schools don't care about the poor is foolish.

When basically all the info in this thread points to a uncooperative system for those who are barely above the federal poverty line, how exactly are you going to defend the system? This is the type of thinking that leads to zero progress for people like Spinach.
 
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