How to not get into med school with a 40 MCAT

[Chelsea FC]

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25.32$ per year or some really low number that almost nobody can get under once you factor in parents income.

guess im not poor enough .. $40,000 a year and balling :/

 

[pageantry]

No, no, no times 1 million.

Look here's the thing - people like the idea now because it's a popular and nice poster. Who doesn't want to help out the OP?

But it starts with that...and pretty soon the site is overrun with crowdfunding requests...and pretty soon after that we get nailed by a scam artist looking to trade a sob story for a cash grab.

Better to have a clear precedent that we don't engage in fundraising efforts via this site.

That makes a lot of sense. Maybe no PayPal links here, but that Method post is a marketing goldmine if Spinach wants to add a link to a blog or whatever offsite with further information.

 

[DokterMom]

I appreciate the positive words, but I must inform you all that I DO have a plan if my 3 apps this year result in no acceptances. Yes, it involves relocating. No, I'm not going to go into great detail here.

But I did not create this thread to complain about my own lot. I made it to let others know that this situation is a reality which a large number of individuals are facing.

@Spinach Dip - I hope you have written a separate letter to each of these three schools articulating why someone with your amazing MCAT really, really wants to go to their particular school. They need to know that you were not financially able to apply broadly, and that you carefully evaluated all of your options and selected their program as one of a very few for the following reasons: A B C. Your letter may or may not get read, but you need to know you did everything in your power to make those three apps work for you.

I hope you are also carefully considering @pageantry's question if maybe you're self-sabotaging to some degree.

 

[efle]

Can you not take a loan to cover app costs?

 

[40323431]

FAP is worthless. I was told (in response to an "im confused" email) that I needed to provide tax statements for each of my parent's incomes. When I responded that I have spoken to my father a total of 2 times in the past 5 years, I was told that was not a consideration and I needed to provide official documentation of his income anyway.

That's not true. You may need to provide documentation that he is estranged, but that can be done in bills, receipts, and statements which show you support yourself entirely. If there is any evidence of his estrangement (requests for child support, attempts to contact for assistance, evidence of the debts he left...), they will comply. I have dealt with this same situation. From AAMC FAP:

"Thank you for contacting AAMC Services. My name is Sabrina.

I will be forwarding your email to the appropriate person, for an estrangement request. You will be contacted once processed.

If we can be of additional assistance regarding the AAMC Fee Assistance Program, please contact us at [email protected] or (202) 828-0600 M-F 9a-7p ET."

Edit to add: YOU need to be persistent and determined. You have to SHOW them that you are doing everything you can and that you have no possible options. Did you write anything about your struggles on your PS, your disadvantaged blurb, or even when apps ask if there's anything else they should know?

 

[piii]

I really empathize with your situation, I too have had some economic struggles. Financial barriers are incredibly challenging in many aspects of life, including medical school. I hope you are able to find success and make the best out of what you have.

That said, this quote could have really done without the spite and resentment:

I have known some very spoiled kids. Those who receive cars on their birthday and get to go on mission trips to Nicaragua, Namibia, and the Philippines (all in 1 summer) because they asked daddy for a check. The same kids who can afford private tutors and have 4.0's and do volunteer work at homeless shelters and hate every minute of it. The kids who complain about getting a B+ on a test and can afford to go through 15 mock interviews so they come off as completely normal and well-adjusted individuals

I think it is unfair to paint the picture that kids of parents with money are spoiled, egotistical, complaining, and hate serving those in need.

 

[ebauche]

If you can be on board with serving, Uniformed Service University is always an option that is on the table. Free application, no tuition, paid a salary during med school.

Of course, it is important that you want to serve for reasons other than just the money. But it is a great option.

 

[Traumweber]

No, no, no times 1 million.

Look here's the thing - people like the idea now because it's a popular and nice poster. Who doesn't want to help out the OP?

But it starts with that...and pretty soon the site is overrun with crowdfunding requests...and pretty soon after that we get nailed by a scam artist looking to trade a sob story for a cash grab.

Better to have a clear precedent that we don't engage in fundraising efforts via this site.

Agreed... I did not mean that the OP should post a link here.
I am pretty sure the OP has well wishers IRL . They might start a campaign with a cause (instead of simply asking for money) and send links to people they know.
Or people who have used his technique (MCAT?) and wish to give back can directly contact them if needed.
All I meant to say was that it has been used for crazy motives that succeeded and this would not be labelled as such. I would personally go with working for a few years and saving up because that worked for me and even solidified my reasons for going into medicine.
But as the OP writes, they just wanted to throw light on the situation.

 

[wasteofspace323]

I think it is unfair to paint the picture that kids of parents with money are spoiled, egotistical, complaining, and hate serving those in need.

While I agree its irresponsible to generalize, people like me do exist.

 

[Spinach Dip]

No, no, no times 1 million.

Look here's the thing - people like the idea now because it's a popular and nice poster. Who doesn't want to help out the OP?

But it starts with that...and pretty soon the site is overrun with crowdfunding requests...and pretty soon after that we get nailed by a scam artist looking to trade a sob story for a cash grab.

Better to have a clear precedent that we don't engage in fundraising efforts via this site.

I am in agreement with this.

 

[Spinach Dip]

I think it is unfair to paint the picture that kids of parents with money are spoiled, egotistical, complaining, and hate serving those in need.

I have observed a correlation. It is not a 100% causation.

 

[piii]

I have observed a correlation. It is not a 100% causation.

Well there probably is some correlation between low socioeconomic status and criminal activity but it would be just as naive of me to generalize you into that category, wouldn't it? Don't make these generalizations and let it bias your view of people you don't know just because you are frustrated at the system and a handful of individuals.

 

[jl lin]

Move to Texas! You will be a shoe-in. For most schools in Texas, MCAT scores are valid for 5 years.



When basically all the info in this thread points to a uncooperative system for those who are barely above the federal poverty line, how exactly are you going to defend the system? This is the type of thinking that leads to zero progress for people like Spinach.

Let's all move to Texas. LOL. But the mosquitos can get up to condor size. In the summer, being outside can suck.

 

[jl lin]

I really empathize with your situation, I too have had some economic struggles. Financial barriers are incredibly challenging in many aspects of life, including medical school. I hope you are able to find success and make the best out of what you have.

That said, this quote could have really done without the spite and resentment:



I think it is unfair to paint the picture that kids of parents with money are spoiled, egotistical, complaining, and hate serving those in need.

Yes, but the sad reality is that for most people, well, we benefit from life giving us good, hard, swift kicks in the azz moving all the way down to the soul. Suffering will either make you bitter or better. Eventually, in one way or another, it rains on everyone.

BTW, I am seriously betting on Spinach finding the better over the bitter.

 

[wasteofspace323]

Yes, but the sad reality is that for most people, well, we benefit from life giving us good, hard, swift kicks in the azz moving all the way down to the soul. Suffering will either make you bitter or better. Eventually, in one way or another, it rains on everyone.

BTW, I am seriously betting on Spinach finding the better over the bitter.

Bitter is an acquired taste but you will grow into a very passionate love/hate relationship with it. Embrace the bitterness.

 

[Optimus-Prime]

@Spinach Dip Have you tried credit cards?

They have funded me these last three cycles, you WILL qualify for something

 

[Mr Magpie]

Aside from possessing empathy, it's hard for people from privileged backgrounds (and not just in the financial sense) to relate with those who are not.

The argument people often make "work hard, you can persevere" can be a bit naive. The value of hard work is largely associated with your resource pool... there is only so much one can do with rocks while everyone else has steel (yes I'm simplifying a bit here, but bear with me). Imagine nearly every aspect of everyday life being harder--it compounds. Even if @Spinach Dip were to get FAP, the traveling costs are still largely prohibitive.

Can the situation be better? Sure, but that's besides the point. The grievances expressed here are very real and reach far beyond getting into medical school.

 

[jl lin]

Bitter is an acquired taste but you will grow into a very passionate love/hate relationship with it. Embrace the bitterness.

LOL, remember that dude that wrote The Far Side? Gary Larson? That's what your responses remind me of sometimes. 🙂

Re: the bitterness: Resist the Dark Side:

 

[wasteofspace323]

LOL, remember that dude that wrote The Far Side? Gary Larson? That's why your responses remind me of sometimes. 🙂

Re: the bitterness: Resist the Dark Side:

Ya, I was definitely going for star wars motif there.

 

[GiveMeThatMD]

I appreciate the positive words, but I must inform you all that I DO have a plan if my 3 apps this year result in no acceptances. Yes, it involves relocating. No, I'm not going to go into great detail here.

But I did not create this thread to complain about my own lot. I made it to let others know that this situation is a reality which a large number of individuals are facing.

Best of luck to you! You've made it this far already, and there's no doubt in my mind, even with only 3 applications, that you'll make it. All it takes it 1 chance and you've got it made. Keep us posted on how it goes!

 

[BigChief]

@Mr Magpie if you truly believe that one cannot overcome life's obstacles with hard work and determination. 1) I feel bad for you and 2) pm me, you can hear all about how it can be done.

 

[Mr Magpie]

@Mr Magpie if you truly believe that one cannot overcome life's obstacles with hard work and determination. 1) I feel bad for you and 2) pm me, you can hear all about how it can be done.

You misinterpreted my post. I'm not saying it cannot be done, but it can be more complicated than simply 'working hard'. For some that involves quite a bit more investment than others. Investment that is sometimes hard to make depending on their unique situations/institutional context. Other posts here have given plenty of information about how it can be done for Spinach's situation (i.e. waiting, relocating, different job, trying again etc).

I'm pointing out that there's more to meritocracy than meets the eye.

Here's some reading on the topic: http://www.ncsociology.org/sociationtoday/v21/merit.htm

 

[DoctorLacrosse]

I feel for you man, the system is messed up. I worked through all of college and for a year afterwords to save money while all of my peers were partying with their free time. I then proceeded to dump all of that money into the app cycle. Luckily it paid off for me, but I think you just have to roll the dice on yourself, take out some credit cards, and apply to as many schools as possible to increase your chances before that MCAT expires. I wish you the best.

 

[IlDestriero]

If you're really as broke as you say, and can't get any application money from your parents, yet don't meet the requirements for a fee waiver, you can do what people have done for hundreds of years when they need money and get a job. You will have a degree in something, hopefully you chose one that leads to work that pays better than Starbucks (ie. Something other than Bio).
After you work for a year, by living below your means, you should have the cash on hand to apply to 20 schools and go on 10 interviews. Bonus points to you if you move to a better state from which to apply. (hello Texas!)
Not everyone has an easy road, but you sound like you've got what it takes, this is just a speed bump that will be in your rear view mirror before you know it, and long below the horizon once you're in school.
Good luck.
If you can only apply to one or two schools, chose wisely and roll the dice.

 

[The Buff OP]

TL;DR
(I will later tho)


Espinaca, did you ever changed your EC's to something that has to do more with humans (volunteering, shadowing)?

Edit:
Like I said above, man. Did you do some changes to your application this time? Hopefully this time you can get the chance to get in to medical school. The money part sucks. Have you tried to look into other areas of work?

 

[The Buff OP]

Yea I heard he started working at the human(e) society. Great way to get that human(e) interaction. Jk 😛

Your avatar will now hunt my dreams!

 

[cmann88]

If I finished primaries and secondaries to all the schools I wanted to apply to this year, it would come to a total of $3,000. If I attended interviews at all those schools, the total would come to $15,000. That's for less than 20 schools. I hope I don't have to explain that this is a completely absurd amount for someone who can barely afford rent and groceries every month.

The only reasonable thing for me to do is apply to my lone in-state school and pray that I get in. Even though my GPA and MCAT don't match their averages and my history does not really meet their mission statement, it is the only option I can actually afford.

Spinach, I actually have about the same in my bank account. I was homeless for a time. I lived in my car, worked 40 hours a week, and went to school full time. At night, I showered in the school gym, then parked under a street lamp and used the light to do homework until I passed out. I also don't qualify for FAP, and I'm applying to 20 schools. I saved and saved and saved and saved for the AMCAS. I sold my TV. I sold my car. I ditched my cell phone.

Then secondaries - the schools collectively wanted $2,200. By this time, I was pissed. So I called them, I asked for a fee waiver, and I sent them an image of my pathetic checking account. Not a single one has made me pay. Not one.

I don't know what I'll do about these interviews, but I'm guessing that I'm going to have to lean on friends and ride on the bus a few times. Either way, even if you're poor, if you want something more than you want to breathe, not much is going to stand in your way.

It's not fair, but neither is anything else. We poor people have to sacrifice more to even have a chance. I'm banking on the fact that once I have an M.D., I'll never go hungry again. Go get 'em.

 

[GrapesofRath]

Haven't gone through this long thread so my posts my be repeating what others have said but a few thoughts

a) I won't sit here and pretend I have any idea of what you are going through. I and the vast majority of people don't. I won't sit here and disingenuously tell you I feel for you "but such is life" or some other quote that basically states well "tough luck". Your in a very unfortunate position; it's that simple. It's rather unfortunate we can't accommodate and adjust for situations like yours the way we can for others such as URMs in affirmative action or situations/occurrences like that. You have very strong qualifications for an MD school. Your MCAT is above the 90th percentile at the vast majority of MD schools. Your situation is truly unfortunate. Amidst all this "tough love" and posts saying "no point in being jealous of others or crying about your situation" it should be acknowledged you are in a very unfortunate spot and have a phenomenal MCAT score well beyond what most MD matriculants have, including those who do very well in medical school. You deserved better. Simple as that.

b) With a 40 MCAT score and the posts you have made about the MCAT and how to study for it and the level of insight, detail and nuance you've shown in your posts about MCAT prep, you sound like a good candidate to work for a Kaplan or PR or other MCAT prep company. And the money you make doing this will be well above minimum wage.

c) Check and see carefully which schools will not accept your MCAT for next cycle. My understanding is for a score 3.5 years old all schools aren't necessarily going to reject it. I could easily be wrong, but at the very least if you haven't done so already truly go through every school you have a remote shot at and see what their MCAT policy is in terms of latest score accepted. Call them if you have to and explain your situation and see what they say about latest MCAT score accepted.

Good luck. Keep up all you have and it won't be a question of if you achieve the success you are hoping for, only a question of when.

 

[Lost in Translation]

Unless I marry a nice American girl and get permanent resident status...... hmmmmm...

Sorry, nice American girls are hard to come by even for Americans.

 

[DrDarce]

I worked during undergrad and also had a gap year where I worked fulltime and saved up. But i totally understand because even with that, I felt like I was always running out of money. One of my facebook friends set up one of those crowdsourcing things for dental school. I ended up donating just because I know the struggle. Yeah it definitely wouldn't be appropriate to ask us here but maybe posting it on facebook might help? I hope you're able to figure it all out, OP.

 

[Turkishking]

Move to Texas! You will be a shoe-in. For most schools in Texas, MCAT scores are valid for 5 years.



When basically all the info in this thread points to a uncooperative system for those who are barely above the federal poverty line, how exactly are you going to defend the system? This is the type of thinking that leads to zero progress for people like Spinach.

Mess up your interview

 

[Fastrada]

Edit: Good luck with your situation!!

 

[navigator]

Mess up your interview

... what?

 

[Demosthenes1]

I feel for ya Spinach, I really do. I had to sell some of my stuff to pay for MCAT books.

That said, I'm so sick of hearing that medical schools don't care about poor kids. The process is expensive and taxing but there really is a lot of assistance at every step of the way. Sure, there are flaws and some kids fall through the cracks (my sympathies), but to make a broad sweeping statement that med schools don't care about the poor is foolish.

Med Schools *literally* do not care about poor kids.

 

[Affiche]

Med Schools *literally* do not care about poor kids.

Right, that's why they offer need-based aid, free tutoring, financial advising, honor fee waivers, are receptive to disadvantaged applicants, accommodate ITA requests, have pipeline programs, etc. YMMV depending on the school, but again, to make such a broad sweeping statement like that (especially went you have little to no experience with medical schools) is foolish.

And beyond that, almost every single one of my interviewers stated that my lack of volunteering wasn't a concern at all because they realized I had to work to support myself. You don't know what you're talking about.

 

[thatwouldbeanarchy]

Right, that's why they offer need-based aid, free tutoring, financial advising, honor fee waivers, are receptive to disadvantaged applicants, accommodate ITA requests, have pipeline programs, etc. YMMV depending on the school, but again, to make such a broad sweeping statement like that (especially went you have little to no experience with medical schools) is foolish.

And beyond that, almost every single one of my interviewers stated that my lack of volunteering wasn't a concern at all because they realized I had to work to support myself. You don't know what you're talking about.

All of these things are the bare minimum of what medical schools could be doing to make medical education truly accessible to low-income applicants and people of color. Need-based financial aid is great, if you're fortunate enough to get accepted. I'm not really willing to pat medical schools on the back for simply being receptive to disadvantaged applicants or for honoring fee waivers... It's a nice gesture but it's nowhere near enough. I think @Spinach Dip already demonstrated how challenging it is for low-income applicants to even APPLY, let alone get accepted and matriculate. And it's not just the cost of applications and the bureaucratic nonsense that keeps people in need from qualifying for FAP. There's plenty of research that shows a persistent racial and socioeconomic bias in standardized test scores. Of course, the MCAT isn't the only factor in medical school acceptance but it's far from insignificant either. It's worth asking ourselves who in our society can afford to drop $2-3000 to prepare for a single exam. And who is encouraged to even consider such a challenging and rigorous career path.

It may not be the case that medical schools don't care. Rather I would argue that we've all come to accept a system where students are expected to incur crushing debt for the rest of their lives. We've come to accept medicine as a majority white, majority upper middle class profession. Education should be a right, not a privilege.

 

[Affiche]

All of these things are the bare minimum of what medical schools could be doing to make medical education truly accessible to low-income applicants and people of color. Need-based financial aid is great, if you're fortunate enough to get accepted. I'm not really willing to pat medical schools on the back for simply being receptive to disadvantaged applicants or for honoring fee waivers... It's a nice gesture but it's nowhere near enough. I think @Spinach Dip already demonstrated how challenging it is for low-income applicants to even APPLY, let alone get accepted and matriculate. And it's not just the cost of applications and the bureaucratic nonsense that keeps people in need from qualifying for FAP. There's plenty of research that shows a persistent racial and socioeconomic bias in standardized test scores. Of course, the MCAT isn't the only factor in medical school acceptance but it's far from insignificant either. It's worth asking ourselves who in our society can afford to drop $2-3000 to prepare for a single exam. And who is encouraged to even consider such a challenging and rigorous career path.

It may not be the case that medical schools don't care. Rather I would argue that we've all come to accept a system where students are expected to incur crushing debt for the rest of their lives. We've come to accept medicine as a majority white, majority upper middle class profession. Education should be a right, not a privilege.

Yeah I don't buy into this whole "woe is me" nonsense, and this is coming from someone who was literally homeless in high school and in college. Thousands of dollars for a single exam? Please. I sold some of my stuff and bought used books off eBay for under $100.

Socioeconomic barriers are definitely prevalent in society and a hurdle to overcome at every step of the way, I've said that on here countless times, but this mentality that you are owed anything from med schools because you're poor really needs to stop. It's hogwash.

And what does incurring debt have to do with this?

 

[pageantry]

One thing I've noticed is that it's awfully hard to take care of individuals when we make them into icons for morally unassailable social justice causes.

I suppose that's why we have our wonderful, Manichean, two-party system to help us along.

 

[Theseus]

I appreciate the positive words, but I must inform you all that I DO have a plan if my 3 apps this year result in no acceptances. Yes, it involves relocating. No, I'm not going to go into great detail here.

But I did not create this thread to complain about my own lot. I made it to let others know that this situation is a reality which a large number of individuals are facing.

Agreed. I worked two jobs to pay for my application. I swear Spinach Dip, if I ever meet you in person, I am buying the drinks.

 

[arc5005]

I appreciate the positive words, but I must inform you all that I DO have a plan if my 3 apps this year result in no acceptances. Yes, it involves relocating. No, I'm not going to go into great detail here.

But I did not create this thread to complain about my own lot. I made it to let others know that this situation is a reality which a large number of individuals are facing.

What state do you reside in?

 

[NeuResurgens]

I will say that it bothers me that they mostly base FAP off of your parents' income. Yeah, because my parents' combined income is going *entirely* to me applying to medical school. It's not like they have other mouths to feed and bills to pay, or maybe they expect you to pay for everything yourself and won't help you at all. I know a lot of people who were disqualified because of this, but who seriously could have used the help due to their individual circumstances.

 

[mehc012]

I will say that it bothers me that they mostly base FAP off of your parents' income. Yeah, because my parents' combined income is going *entirely* to me applying to medical school. It's not like they have other mouths to feed and bills to pay, or maybe they expect you to pay for everything yourself and won't help you at all. I know a lot of people who were disqualified because of this, but who seriously could have used the help due to their individual circumstances.

Not to mention that this (and the eventual finaid application) requires the cooperation of parents who may have considered themselves done with any obligation years and years ago. I have no idea how I am going to get my father's financial information, but I'm fairly certain it will require me to inform him that I intend to go to medical school, which I was hoping to avoid him ever finding out.

 

[Affiche]

Not to mention that this (and the eventual finaid application) requires the cooperation of parents who may have considered themselves done with any obligation years and years ago. I have no idea how I am going to get my father's financial information, but I'm fairly certain it will require me to inform him that I intend to go to medical school, which I was hoping to avoid him ever finding out.

If you're estranged from a parent you can submit an affidavit stating you're estranged and they will waive the requirement to include that parent's information. I had to do this for my mom.

 

[mehc012]

If you're estranged from a parent you can submit an affidavit stating you're estranged and they will waive the requirement to include that parent's information. I had to do this for my mom.

Yeah, they always say that, but the hoops for doing so are typically as burdensome as tracking them down/getting the info anyway, which is all compounded by the fact that I'll be out of the country for the entire finaid window.

 

[Affiche]

but the hoops for doing so are typically as burdensome as tracking them down/getting the info anyway,

Meh, I just asked for the paperwork for an estranged parent and they emailed it to me. It was super short and easy to fill out and was approved within a week

 

[pageantry]

I did the same thing. As the song says, if you know how to *bleep*, there's a whole lotta love out there.

Okay that's probably not appropriate.

 

[mehc012]

Meh, I just asked for the paperwork for an estranged parent and they emailed it to me. It was super short and easy to fill out and was approved within a week

Good to know. Anything in there that would require physical documents and/or being in the US?
Also, I'm talking about finaid once accepted, not FAP...the FAP ship has sailed (that sounds wrong but whatever)

 

[pageantry]

On that note, though, I would note that not everyone has... Idk... The years of background fending/fighting for themselves that might create the necessary resourcefulness. And, a lot of people are just depressed and/or exhausted. Poverty will do that. Systemic oppression will do that. Tough luck will do that. If you've worked in an underserved clinic, you know about this on sad and frustrating levels.

One thing I have read from at least one adcom here, though, is that whatever sympathy/diversity points get added for a disadvantaged background can also be subtracted if it seems like the person might not have the stability, support, and wherewithal to make it through medical school. And to me, that probably should be a real consideration.

Life isn't fair or easy. But there are many paths.

 

[pageantry]

Good to know. Anything in there that would require physical documents and/or being in the US?
Also, I'm talking about finaid once accepted, not FAP...the FAP ship has sailed (that sounds wrong but whatever)

For FAP, no and no.
For finaid, you have to talk with your FA office directly about that. They all have different policies on the issue.

 

[Mad Jack]

I took my MCAT 2.5 years ago. It expires after this cycle.

Should do your best to throw your hat into the DO arena STAT. You may be late on the MD cycle, but with your scores you could definitely score a seat at a DO school without an MCAT retake, and wouldn't need to file nearly as many applications to be accepted. Just a thought.