How to rank/choose 1st externship

[roryportman]

Question for upperclassmen/psychologists.

My end goal, as of now, is to be a neuropsychologist. I'm a 1st year PhD student in the nyc area and am participating in the "match" for my 1st externship for next year. I will need to have neuropsych externships 3rd & 4th year, so for next year, what kind of site would be best to aim for? University counseling, academic medical center, inpatient setting? I've had/have interviews at all these sites and I am not sure how to rank- there are obviously pros and cons for each. What things should I be thinking about and aiming for?

Thanks.

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[DSMX]

Ah, your first year of making some rankings huh? Welcome to that lovely madness! You'll have to do so again for the rest of your externship years, internship, and then postdoc. But I digress... To answer your question, neuropsychologists generally work in medical centers, and also can have a role in inpatient settings. Not so much counseling centers. So I would aim for a medical center externship if I were you. Do you know what kind of role you would have as an extern in a medical center? As testing usually takes place at these sites, you might even be able to do some testing in your first year externship at a medical center -- which will then be very useful experience for applying to neuropsych-specific externships later.

 

[roryportman]

@DSMX, right?! looking forward to it

yes, at some sites, I would def be able to do some assessments. Wais, Rorschach, etc. Would a site that allows me to do the most testing be best, to help me get neuro interviews for the future? Or should I look for a balance b/w testing & therapy- as I've never even had my own case to conceptualize and don't want to be screwed down the line by not having enough clinical contact hrs.. I also don't want to be a psychologist who hasn't had enough cases and doesn't know my theoretical orientation!

 

[psych.meout]

Would a site that allows me to do the most testing be best, to help me get neuro interviews for the future? Or should I look for a balance b/w testing & therapy- as I've never even had my own case to conceptualize and don't want to be screwed down the line by not having enough clinical contact hrs.. I also don't want to be a psychologist who hasn't had enough cases and doesn't know my theoretical orientation!

You need explicitly neuropsych practica for neuropsych internships and post docs, but you also need diversified clinical training, especially in intervention. If you don't have sufficient intervention experience, you're going to seriously hurt your internship apps. You can look on the APPIC site and search the forums here to get an idea of what you need to get.

[QUOTE="roryportman, post: 19711862, member: 901328"]

yes, at some sites, I would def be able to do some assessments. Wais, Rorschach, etc.[/QUOTE]

You're looking forward to doing the Rorschach?

I get that the Northeast is often more psychodynamically oriented, but projective tests aren't really held in high regard in neuropsych....or many other areas for that matter.

 

[DSMX]

@DSMX, right?! looking forward to it

yes, at some sites, I would def be able to do some assessments. Wais, Rorschach, etc. Would a site that allows me to do the most testing be best, to help me get neuro interviews for the future? Or should I look for a balance b/w testing & therapy- as I've never even had my own case to conceptualize and don't want to be screwed down the line by not having enough clinical contact hrs.. I also don't want to be a psychologist who hasn't had enough cases and doesn't know my theoretical orientation!

The ideal is definitely a medical center externship where you can get an equal balance of therapy and testing opportunities. Then you can later apply for neuropsych only externships, which will lead to a neuro internship and postdoc. Your comment about being concerned about not having enough therapy cases in your background is wise. Many neuro focused grad students early on only think of neuro and what/how many tests they can administer. Having a well rounded knowledge of mental health pathology to inform your test selection as neuropsychologist is crucial, and will serve you well in later interviews.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Breadth of training in grad school is a very good thing. If you don't think you'll have an opportunity to again work/train in an inpatient setting, that may be a good choice. I've seen that, unfortunately, there are quite a few psychologists who have limited exposure to severe mental illness and inpatient treatment.

Odds are, you'll have plenty of opportunities for medical center training in your neuropsych practica, so branching outside of that to broaden your areas of clinical experience now (while you're able) wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing. Although don't stress out too much--training in a medical center next year certainly wouldn't hurt you.

 

[roryportman]

@psych.meout thanks for the input. Not that I'm looking forward to Rorschach, but I'm learning it so may as well have experience with it. Not sure if this is accurate, but I heard that for internship, the big nyc hospitals prefer students who know how to administer it.

@DSMX thx, this forum has definitely been helpful

@AcronymAllergy thank you! very nice to get all these perspectives.

 

[roryportman]

Another Q-- I know VAs are desirable sites for internship/post doc. Is this the same case for externship? Is it a no brainer to rank this high?

 

[psych.meout]

Another Q-- I know VAs are desirable sites for internship/post doc. Is this the same case for externship? Is it a no brainer to rank this high?

If you're even mildly interested in getting a VA internship, post-doc, or job, it's very helpful to do a practicum at a VA site.

 

[DSMX]

Another Q-- I know VAs are desirable sites for internship/post doc. Is this the same case for externship? Is it a no brainer to rank this high?

Undoubtedly. The earlier you can get into the VA system, the better.

 

[Justanothergrad]

Another Q-- I know VAs are desirable sites for internship/post doc. Is this the same case for externship? Is it a no brainer to rank this high?

The VA system is complex and each VA offers a different experience, but it's a worthwhile setting because of (1) the severity of pathology and (2) the diversity of types of clinical intervention available during your training. I'm bias (and I admit it), but I think that the VA is one of the best training opportunities. If you've been to a VA, you understand a bit more about the system and the culture of treatment there. I encourage folks to make VA placements a priority in their training (also, its the largest employer of psychologists AND provider of internships so it's good to be informed if only for that reason).

 

[roryportman]

Hm, do all these positive answers still hold true despite a horrible commute (~1.5 hrs, maybe more w/ traffic)? Would that be worth it? It's only 2 days a week, but I've never had this sort of "super commute" and unsure how this would affect me personally. I know some people can do it (and in the nyc area, it's not uncommon for my classmates dealing with the MTA system- at least I'm driving!). I wonder how taxing it would be overall, given my other duties (classes, research). It's unlikely that I can live closer next year.

Ah, all this stipulation & it's not like I even have any offers

Thanks for the input!

 

[DSMX]

Hm, do all these positive answers still hold true despite a horrible commute (~1.5 hrs, maybe more w/ traffic)? Would that be worth it? It's only 2 days a week, but I've never had this sort of "super commute" and unsure how this would affect me personally. I know some people can do it (and in the nyc area, it's not uncommon for my classmates dealing with the MTA system- at least I'm driving!). I wonder how taxing it would be overall, given my other duties (classes, research). It's unlikely that I can live closer next year.

Ah, all this stipulation & it's not like I even have any offers

Thanks for the input!

No problem at all to ask these things on this board. While you have a tough commute, the VA experience will still be worth it. You can manage the commute for two days a week. Three would be stretching it.

 

[roryportman]

@DSMX wow, all great to hear! fingers crossed for good news on the 26th then. thanks!

 

[singasongofjoy]

Hm, do all these positive answers still hold true despite a horrible commute (~1.5 hrs, maybe more w/ traffic)? Would that be worth it? It's only 2 days a week, but I've never had this sort of "super commute" and unsure how this would affect me personally. I know some people can do it (and in the nyc area, it's not uncommon for my classmates dealing with the MTA system- at least I'm driving!). I wonder how taxing it would be overall, given my other duties (classes, research). It's unlikely that I can live closer next year.

Ah, all this stipulation & it's not like I even have any offers

Thanks for the input!

About that commute-- having lived in NY area and dealt with the commute issue, personally I'd find a 1.5 hour MTA/light rail experience preferable to a 1.5 hour drive. At least you can read or study while you sit. Anyway, good luck w the match!

 

[roryportman]

@singasongofjoy that's true. I probably wouldn't mind a train ride if it were possible.. sadly I don't think it's an option for me though. I'll look into it tho & hope I'm wrong! Thx.

 

[DSMX]

@DSMX wow, all great to hear! fingers crossed for good news on the 26th then. thanks!

You're welcome... wishing you the best! I can't speak for all VA sites, but it is the premiere site to be at IMO. Largest supporter of mental health (for good reason), and hires the most most mental health employees.

 

[soccercat]

Hm, do all these positive answers still hold true despite a horrible commute (~1.5 hrs, maybe more w/ traffic)? Would that be worth it? It's only 2 days a week, but I've never had this sort of "super commute" and unsure how this would affect me personally. I know some people can do it (and in the nyc area, it's not uncommon for my classmates dealing with the MTA system- at least I'm driving!). I wonder how taxing it would be overall, given my other duties (classes, research). It's unlikely that I can live closer next year.

Ah, all this stipulation & it's not like I even have any offers

Thanks for the input!

Honestly, it really depends on your program and how you are allowed to build your schedule and what your overall workload will be like. I've also heard taking transportation can be faster depending on how many counties/boroughs you're driving through. Personally, I refuse to drive far for work because it is too draining given what we do for work. But if I did 1.5 hours on a train I'd be pretty ok with that.

 

[roryportman]

Okay, which would you guys rank 1st? Slight vagueness for anonymity

BOTH: inpatient units, great training/didactics, good reputations, could see myself getting along with/learn from both supervisors (maybe slightly more with #1), individual & group therapy opps.

#1: VA, teaching hospital

• (+): good clinical & research match; good to get foot in VA door early; exposure to "new" population
  
• (-): horrible commute; little to no opps. for assessments/research

#2: Hospital, AMC

• (+): can do assessments; poster/pubs authorship likely
  
• (-): have worked w/ this population in clinical/research (therapy part is new) thus limiting "exposure"

I know eventually I'd like to intern/postdoc/job @ VA, and concentrate in NP. Would working at a VA, despite no testing exposure there (I do have a little from previous), still lead to interviews at good nyc NP sites?
I mean, crossing my fingers I get an offer from at least ONE of these places!!

 

[soccercat]

If you want to do the VA for internship, I'd do that now. Not because you should get in early, but because if you have the chance to why not. You never know what will happen next year, etc. Neuropsych sites are also very competitive. If you have general VA experience you're more likely to get a neuropsych VA position in the future (regardless of whether it is for internship or if you end up doing neuropsych sites for the rest of your training at other externship sites). The commute may suck, but if it gets you the training you need to get to the next level it's worth it.

Edited to add: how many more years left do you have before internship applications? If you have literally had 0 experience in assessment and are planning on applying next year, that would be a problem. If the VA position you're currently up for might make an exception to let you do a testing here and there (or even screeners with your own patients as needed) and you still have a 2-3 years before you're planning on applying to internship then you have time before you really need to worry about your hours.

 

[roryportman]

@soccercat, after this coming year, I have 2 more years at least of externship; this will be my very 1st externship. So I'm planning to make the others NP specific. Thx for your thoughts!

 

[mypointlesspov]

I know you mentioned anonymity but is it Northport VA? Anyway, it's a horrible commute for anyone, unless you live on Long Island, but I think VA experience could definitely make up for it. It's only 2-3 days per week, which isn't the worst thing in the world (especially knowing there's a set end date to it). Does your program have an in-house training clinic by any chance? If so, you might be able to gain assessment experience that way. It's your first year, so you have plenty of time to gain more experience