Howard and Meharry USMLE Pass rates

[dhinaabi]

If anyone has info about the Step 1 pass rates for Howard and Meharry, my they please post it. I heard Howard is 78%, but if someone can corroborate that as well as provide Meharry's pass rate, I would be incredibly thankful.

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[DoctaJay]

Step 1 pass rates aren't important because it very rarely depends on the school, more on the type of students taking the test, and whether they do well with standardized tests. You can view their match list below:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=2412222&postcount=6

 

[Droopy Snoopy]

78% is awfully low though, might indicate they're not doing something right at Howard.

 

[DoctaJay]

There is a direct correlation between Step 1 scores and MCAT scores. So if a school like Howard accepts a larger amount of students with lower MCAT scores; chances are that those same students won't score >240 on their Step 1. But most folks already have their minds made up about Howard, so you can take opinions for what they are worth.

 

[GeauxMD]

If anyone has info about the Step 1 pass rates for Howard and Meharry, my they please post it. I heard Howard is 78%, but if someone can corroborate that as well as provide Meharry's pass rate, I would be incredibly thankful.

How could that be possible? Wouldn't a school with a pass rate of 78% lose accreditation?

 

[lord_jeebus]

Obligatory ancient thread

Regardless of your opinion on the issue, I think one should be aware of this (somewhat dated but likely still relevant) article before matriculating at Howard or Meharry. I imagine these schools have an official response somewhere but I can't find one.

 

[AmoryBlaine]

There is a direct correlation between Step 1 scores and MCAT scores. So if a school like Howard accepts a larger amount of students with lower MCAT scores; chances are that those same students won't score >240 on their Step 1. But most folks already have their minds made up about Howard, so you can take opinions for what they are worth.

The questions isn't about getting a great score, it's about passing!

 

[LuckyMD2b]

This is BS.

If you "heard" that these schools have a 78%, why don't you cite some sources. Did a Dean from Howard tell you that, or did you find it published in an academic medical journal?

78% is incredibly low for a US med school -- and I seriously doubt that this is true. And I won't believe it till I see some evidence.

 

[DoctaJay]

Obligatory ancient thread

Regardless of your opinion on the issue, I think one should be aware of this (somewhat dated but likely still relevant) article before matriculating at Howard or Meharry. I imagine these schools have an official response somewhere but I can't find one.

That's an interesting thread to say the least. Overall, I still believe that a medical school is what you make it. When I consider going to a school, I don't worry about their board passing scores or things like that, because when I enter the school, I will be determined to rock all of my classes (hopefully) and piss on the boards (hopefully). I've heard alot of bad things about the HBCU medical schools, but I've also met some amazing physicians from these schools who are the chief of surgery at amazing schools. At both my Howard and Meharry interviews I met students who scored in the 90th percentile on the Step 1 boards...in fact, last year Howard had about 7 students that score d above the 90th percentile on the Step 1 boards. Now, I have no idea who many scored well below that, or failed even, but what I can infer from my personal interview experiences at these schools is that if you work hard, you will do well and be a great doc. But like I said before, most folks have already made up their mind about the black schools, so discussion really won't change things.

 

[dutchman]

22% fail rate is a whole lot of failing. The school needs to start banging heads on the wall to improve that pass rate. I mean, they are charging tuition, aren't they?

 

[Droopy Snoopy]

22% fail rate is a whole lot of failing. The school needs to start banging heads on the wall to improve that pass rate. I mean, they are charging tuition, aren't they?

I know, right? You could just about sit everybody down and watch Scrubs for two years and have a higher pass rate.

 

[MadameLULU]

78% is a bunch of speculation. I highly doubt any medical school has a pass rate below an 88%. Fact is this guy "heard" it was 78%. I wouldn't believe it unless this came out of the mouth of a student or administrator.

 

[lord_jeebus]

That's an interesting thread to say the least. Overall, I still believe that a medical school is what you make it. When I consider going to a school, I don't worry about their board passing scores or things like that, because when I enter the school, I will be determined to rock all of my classes (hopefully) and piss on the boards (hopefully). I've heard alot of bad things about the HBCU medical schools, but I've also met some amazing physicians from these schools who are the chief of surgery at amazing schools. At both my Howard and Meharry interviews I met students who scored in the 90th percentile on the Step 1 boards...in fact, last year Howard had about 7 students that score d above the 90th percentile on the Step 1 boards. Now, I have no idea who many scored well below that, or failed even, but what I can infer from my personal interview experiences at these schools is that if you work hard, you will do well and be a great doc. But like I said before, most folks have already made up their mind about the black schools, so discussion really won't change things.

Another thing to consider is that there are no official percentiles for Step 1. There is a two digit score, but if only 7 people got above 90 that's pretty pathetic.

 

[lord_jeebus]

I highly doubt any medical school has a pass rate below an 88%.

I know that Brown used to be below 88%, from a report that they published. This was a few years back and I have no idea what it is now.

 

[tomatoattack]

I would steer clear of those schools, unless that was all that was available to you. Why get mixed up in the idea that you may have come from a less than sufficient training setting if you don't have to? But I guess if you don't get accepted anywhere else, beats doing something else for a year. If that 78% percent pass thing is true, then that is just absurd - i mean woa! whats going on there? what are they doing the first two years, step one isnt that hard to pass.

 

[AmoryBlaine]

Another thing to consider is that there are no official percentiles for Step 1. There is a two digit score, but if only 7 people got above 90 that's pretty pathetic.

Well, they give you a numerical score and a mean and std dev. I'm not sure what constitutes and "official percentile" in your book...

 

[DoctaJay]

I would steer clear of those schools, unless that was all that was available to you. Why get mixed up in the idea that you may have come from a less than sufficient training setting if you don't have to? But I guess if you don't get accepted anywhere else, beats doing something else for a year. If that 78% percent pass thing is true, then that is just absurd - i mean woa! whats going on there? what are they doing the first two years, step one isnt that hard to pass.

lol. My future collegues.

 

[1Path]

Personally, I think people should wear ID badges that state that they don't want to be treated by someone who scored less than 30 on the MCAT or less than 90% on their USMLE's.

 

[fdonkor]

What about morehouse, guys what is the past rate?

 

[SomeSurgeryDoc]

Another thing to consider is that there are no official percentiles for Step 1. There is a two digit score, but if only 7 people got above 90 that's pretty pathetic.

Why would it be pathetic for 10% of Howard's class to score in the top 90% of all medical students who took the USMLE Step 1. That actually sounds on par with the national average. If 10% of Howard's class got in the top 90th percentile, meaning that they scored with the top 10% of all medical students, then the mathematics works out perfectly. So no, that is not pretty pathetic.

 

[lord_jeebus]

Why would it be pathetic for 10% of Howard's class to score in the top 90% of all medical students who took the USMLE Step 1. That actually sounds on par with the national average. If 10% of Howard's class got in the top 90th percentile, meaning that they scored with the top 10% of all medical students, then the mathematics works out perfectly. So no, that is not pretty pathetic.

I'm saying that if it is a two-digit score of 90 (which is NOT 90th percentile) that they're misinterpreting as a percentile, that isn't good at all. I said this because it is a common misperception I encountered on med school interviews.

I know what a percentile is, but thanks for the explanation.

 

[vtucci]

Personally, I think people should wear ID badges that state that they don't want to be treated by someone who scored less than 30 on the MCAT or less than 90% on their USMLE's.

The MCAT has as little to do with what kind of doctor you will be as the LSAT has to do with what kind of lawyer you'll be. No relation whatsoever. It may not even indicate what kind of test taker you are.

The Bar Exam and the Step Exams have a much closer relationship to what you know but even then it is not perfect.

 

[Teejay]

Nobody should speculate or crucify Howard for now until we have a credible source for those figures. Even if we have sources that confirm such scores, i don't think its our responsibility to talk down on any school because of board-scores only.

 

[Teejay]

Personally, I think people should wear ID badges that state that they don't want to be treated by someone who scored less than 30 on the MCAT or less than 90% on their USMLE's.

From your post, you're probably a pre-med or a naive med-student, so my guess is that you don't understand the real world. If you think that MCAT scores or even board scores predict the type of doctor a person will become, then you still have so much to learn. I've seen people with 40's in MCAT and 99 in step1 who are very lauzy and lazy in the wards. On the other hand, i have seen FMG with 190's in the step one and they turned out to be oustanding doctors. By now, you should know there is a big difference between book knowledge and real world practice of medicine.

 

[RNtoMD2011]

Amen!

 

[DoctaJay]

I'm saying that if it is a two-digit score of 90 (which is NOT 90th percentile) that they're misinterpreting as a percentile, that isn't good at all. I said this because it is a common misperception I encountered on med school interviews.

I know what a percentile is, but thanks for the explanation.

LOL. No one is going to be excited if they got a 90 on their step 1. They knew what they were talking about when they said ''90th percentile''.

and to answer the question about morehouse...they have a ''reputation'' of pulling more black folks with higher MCAT scores so they probably have a higher average step 1 scores.

 

[Instatewaiter]

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3860/is_200411/ai_n9470392/pg_31

"President Maupin has been a vigorous and committed chief executive officer since his arrival at Meharry Medical College in 1994. When he arrived, he faced a number of serious problems: what he estimated as a $49 million deficit, an audit of student performance on board examinations revealing a 39 percent pass rate"

That was in 94 though

 

[1Path]

From your post, you're probably a pre-med or a naive med-student, so my guess is that you don't understand the real world. .

And whatever you are, catching onto sacarsm obvioulsy isn't a skill you've honed in on. And FYI, I'm neither a pre-med OR naive!

The MCAT has as little to do with what kind of doctor you will be .

No **** Shelock Holmes, it's called SARCASM!

 

[beefballs]

a 90 on the two digit score isn't bad, and I thought they don't give percentile information with step one. There was this dude who got like a 263-his 2 digit score was a 99 same as this other dude who got a 245. That 2 -digit score is not a percentile.

 

[DoctaJay]

a 90 on the two digit score isn't bad, and I thought they don't give percentile information with step one. There was this dude who got like a 263-his 2 digit score was a 99 same as this other dude who got a 245. That 2 -digit score is not a percentile.

I stand corrected. I'm an MS0, so i really have no idea how Step 1 scores work. all I know is that they told me 90th percentile, so I'm just relaying the info.

 

[hucm2009]

I attend Howard University college of medicine, and the board pass rates you heard were wrong. The only figures I have heard going around the school are in the 80 to 90% range. And yes, we do have many students above the 90th percentile, not above the 2 digit score of 90, just to clarify for you. Also, once you get to med school you'll realize board scores are hardly indicative of the school you go to, but more of your individual effort. Some M2's have started studying for them already, while some won't begin until a month before the test. Medical school is going to be what you make of it. I chose Howard because it is a great school with a good atmosphere for learning. I had interviews at other more "highly regarded" schools, but I know I would have been miserable at those programs. Choose the school that you think you will learn best at and be the most comfortable and successful at, not the school with the best stats.

 

[Droopy Snoopy]

And yes, we do have many students above the 90th percentile, not above the 2 digit score of 90, just to clarify for you.

That's not true, the USMLE has not released percentile scores since 1999:
http://www.usmle.org/Scores/percentiles.htm

The two-digit score of 90 correlates to approximately 225 according to First Aid (p.11 if you're interested). That's what the '04 data says anyway.

 

[hucm2009]

That's not true, the USMLE has not released percentile scores since 1999:
http://www.usmle.org/Scores/percentiles.htm

The two-digit score of 90 correlates to approximately 225 according to First Aid (p.11 if you're interested). That's what the '04 data says anyway.

I don't know what the highest math class you took in college was, but if you know the average score and know 1 std deviation, you can calculate what percentile your score was in. I wasn't referring to the 2 digit score.

 

[Droopy Snoopy]

I don't know what the highest math class you took in college was, but if you know the average score and know 1 std deviation, you can calculate what percentile your score was in. I wasn't referring to the 2 digit score.

Why are you getting personal? Jerk.

 

[hucm2009]

Why are you getting personal? Jerk.

I'm not getting personal, you were just so quick to point out that what I was saying wasn't true before asking or trying to find out how one would go about arriving at those numbers.

 

[beefballs]

this whole thread is an underhanded swipe at the historically black colleges, everybody knows it. If you wanna bash them just come right out and say so.

-if you are in med school you know that the boards is an individual thing
-if you aren't in med school go where you will be happy at, and don't go to class stay home and study on your own

 

[DRJJ1]

this whole thread is an underhanded swipe at the historically black colleges, everybody knows it. If you wanna bash them just come right out and say so.

-if you are in med school you know that the boards is an individual thing
-if you aren't in med school go where you will be happy at, and don't go to class stay home and study on your own

I WOULD GO TO A GREEN SCHOOL IF ACCEPTED,,

 

[EctopicFetus]

Another thing to consider is that there are no official percentiles for Step 1. There is a two digit score, but if only 7 people got above 90 that's pretty pathetic.

Well you could actually figure out what percentage you scored because you know the avg and they give the standard deviation. that being said that 2 digit score has nothing to do with percentile.. the avg score is a 2 digit 75 and by definition 50th percentile.

 

[EctopicFetus]

Man I again remember why I hated pre-meds in undergrad.. thank god im done with that crap and trying to win the freakin rat race with a bunch of psycho kids.

Look if you get into Harvard, Yale, UCSF, Stanford etc. and one of the schools mentioned above go where 1) you will be happiest and 2) where it will be cheapest..

bottom line is that a school doesnt make you any smarter (unlike typical pre-med belief) it is just that people who go to those top notch schools are more gunner-esque and will do better. the thing is if you take that same gunner and place him in any school (not gonna mention names) MD, DO, IMG etc.. they would do just as well if they studied the same.

Get over yourselves people. Study hard and go into a field you enjoy. I worked with a chick from Meharry and not only was she beautiful but a damn fine doc.

 

[zookeeper]

Before interviewing at Howard I like many of the people on here had a negative opinion of Howard. But during my interview I was so impressed that I decided that it would be a great place for me. After attending a top ten school for undergrad and interviewing at schools with board pass rates >98% I decided to go to a school that would be the best fit for me not the school with the "best reputation". But I guess many people will have to spend 4 miserable years at a school with a "great reputation" before they figure this out.

 

[mdm_sparkle]

I have interviewed at Howard, Meharry and Morehouse within the past four months. These are the numbers the respective Admission Liason's gave us for first time USMLE Step 1 pass rates: Howard 80%; Meharry 90% and Morehouse 95%. I assume they are true coming from the Admissions staff, can anyone verify? I'd appreciate it

 

[dutchman]

I have interviewed at Howard, Meharry and Morehouse within the past four months. These are the numbers the respective Admission Liason's gave us for first time USMLE Step 1 pass rates: Howard 80%; Meharry 90% and Morehouse 95%. I assume they are true coming from the Admissions staff, can anyone verify? I'd appreciate it

They typically don't have to lie about stuff like that.

 

[Skills of House]

I have interviewed at Howard, Meharry and Morehouse within the past four months. These are the numbers the respective Admission Liason's gave us for first time USMLE Step 1 pass rates: Howard 80%; Meharry 90% and Morehouse 95%. I assume they are true coming from the Admissions staff, can anyone verify? I'd appreciate it

Meharry's pass rate is approximately 74% (i.e. 73-75%). But there are several factors that need to be considered. For example, first and fore most...these are NUMBERS people!!!!!!!! Now, I have an engineering background with a minor in math, so I as much as anyone believe that numbers don't lie, BUT the fact that a school has a 74% pass rate doesn't mean that you are going to fail any more than the fact that a school with a 100% pass rate means that YOU are going to pass! It's not like Step I is a group exam! Beyond that different schools admit different numbers of students so if a school only admitted 70 students then obviously 10 students failing in that class has a more dramatic effect (statistically) than 10 students failing in a class of 120. Not to mention that these are of course only first time pass rates. And before everyone blows up in hysteria, yes, of course I think it's important to pass the first time! But if your score is 186 (since they've raised passing to 185), then I hate to break it to you, but you're still pretty screwed, and from my understanding, perhaps even more so than if you had failed it, since you would at least have the opportunity to take it again - and perhaps do really well - in that case. So you have no idea how many in that 98-99% first time pass rate class only scored 2 or 3 points above passing or maybe wouldn't have passed under the new standard. The LCME provides accreditation to all worthy medical schools and just last year Meharry received its full accreditation for the maximum 8 yrs. You need to trust that they are doing their job, go to the school at which you believe you can develop to your potential, and then do your job. You do, and Step I will take care of itself....oh and yes I am a proud Meharrian...and yes I like many others there, did have the option of going to other schools that weren't HBCUs. It was a choice...and one that I am most proud of!

 

[lord_jeebus]

So you have no idea how many in that 98-99% first time pass rate class only scored 2 or 3 points above passing or maybe wouldn't have passed under the new standard.

It's pretty unlikely that a school with a 98% pass rate has a distribution of scores with a significant number of people barely passing...

 

[Biscuit799]

Personally, I think people should wear ID badges that state that they don't want to be treated by someone who scored less than 30 on the MCAT or less than 90% on their USMLE's.

geez, only a UF student would make a comment like this...

 

[Skills of House]

It's pretty unlikely that a school with a 98% pass rate has a distribution of scores with a significant number of people barely passing...

And you are basing this on what???? the fact that they passed??? That tells you jack about how much they passed by! If you find a school that accepts a class of at least 100 students and has about a 98% pass rate and can factually state that about 90% of that passing 98% scored above 220 (which of course is not stellar but still a very very solid and competitive score for matching in most specialties) then you have an argument and that school probably has a curriculum that could serve as a guideline for others. But that's not how the information is reported, they simply say that 98% pass. And the foolish masses just flock behind and fall inline.
It's just like whoever wrote that article that was published about physicians from Howard, Meharry, and some Mexican school getting into trouble 4 or 5 years ago. It's a completely BS study! When I first read it, I have to admit I was stunned and taken aback like I suspect most anyone would be...but then after using my own mind instead of being led by media, a few pertinent questions and facts popped up like: these are physicians!!! Not students, but doctors!! That means that at a minimum they passed Step I, Step II, Step IICS, and Step 3!!! Not to mention successfully completed residency training...yet where do these geniuses throw the blame? The med schools! But all of this is neither here nor there, the point still remains that it doesn't matter what your school's pass rate is, you (we) are the ones who have to take the test, and that rate doesn't amount to a hill of beans inside that testing center!

 

[The Buff]

It's pretty unlikely that a school with a 98% pass rate has a distribution of scores with a significant number of people barely passing...

Actually I heard Harvard had an average Step I score of 184 last year. Yup, every single person just barely passed, so forget that 98% pass rate or whatever, it means nothing.

 

[swoop]

If I scored well on the MCAT, went to a reputable undergraduate institution, and decide to go to Howard, does that mean I have to fail the boards and become a drug addict at some point?

 

[1Path]

geez, only a UF student would make a comment like this...

I THINK you meant, UF alum!

 

[lord_jeebus]

And you are basing this on what???? the fact that they passed??? That tells you jack about how much they passed by! If you find a school that accepts a class of at least 100 students and has about a 98% pass rate and can factually state that about 90% of that passing 98% scored above 220 (which of course is not stellar but still a very very solid and competitive score for matching in most specialties) then you have an argument and that school probably has a curriculum that could serve as a guideline for others. But that's not how the information is reported, they simply say that 98% pass. And the foolish masses just flock behind and fall inline.

Here's my reasoning:

1. Any student on the pass-fail borderline has approximately equal likelihood of passing or failing.

2. Say a school with a 98% pass rate has 100 students. Assuming the 2 that failed almost passed, we can conclude that approximately 4 (give or take) of them were on the line. What is the likelihood of a school with 20% of its students being on the line and only 2% failing? Nearly zero.

3. The distribution of scores at any school is smooth and wide. The random events that would lead such a school to having 2% failure and a high percentage in the 180s or 190s are very unlikely.

It's just like whoever wrote that article that was published about physicians from Howard, Meharry, and some Mexican school getting into trouble 4 or 5 years ago. It's a completely BS study! When I first read it, I have to admit I was stunned and taken aback like I suspect most anyone would be...but then after using my own mind instead of being led by media, a few pertinent questions and facts popped up like: these are physicians!!! Not students, but doctors!! That means that at a minimum they passed Step I, Step II, Step IICS, and Step 3!!! Not to mention successfully completed residency training...yet where do these geniuses throw the blame? The med schools!

They threw the blame at the medical schools because that was the factor that set these physicians apart. They didn't blame Step 3 or residency programs because that was something that all physicians had in common. Finding differences between groups is how researchers identify potential causes of phenomena.