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I'm considering next quarter. Any input about fraternities? The LKS at UOP is all girls right now. Tempting.....
How's Pledging For Fraternities?
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I hate frats. Ppl say it's good for resumes which is laughable. No respectable chain pharmacy cares about what frats you were in. All they care is that you have good references, aren't a criminal, and have a degree/licence. Especially if you work in retail, if you've been interning with a company for a while chances are they will hire you on after graduation anyways. From personal experiece, I know Kroger is giving away their new pharmacies to new grads (managment). I think managment is high 80s or low 90s/year. Personally, I'd rather take the low 80s, 40hr/week position and not bear the burden of management
-peace out home skillits...
-peace out home skillits...
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Not everyone wants to work for a "respectable chain pharmacy". Many of the best jobs are the ones that are unadvertised. Sometimes it IS about who you know. (No, I'm not in a pharmacy frat)
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I pledged.. I hated the pledging process.. every minute of it.. however.. I'm starting to feel thanksful that i stuck it out. If you the type of person who wants the 4.0.. pledging a frat may not be for you.. cuase of all mandatory events.. however.. more and more i'm learning grades aren't everything.
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Frats are all about last year's tests. That made exams a whole lot easier to prepare for. Not that I didn't study as hard as I would have without them, it just helped to settle my nerves that I had studied enough.
Though, I did hear this weekend that some SOP's are strictly forbidding the use of tests from previous years as study materials. If you are caught using one it is an ethical violation that could mean the end of your schooling. That sounds kinda lame to me. No one is going to pass a test based solely on old exams, unless the professor is lazy and uses the exact same questions every year.
Though, I did hear this weekend that some SOP's are strictly forbidding the use of tests from previous years as study materials. If you are caught using one it is an ethical violation that could mean the end of your schooling. That sounds kinda lame to me. No one is going to pass a test based solely on old exams, unless the professor is lazy and uses the exact same questions every year.
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Lambda Kappa Sigma? That's the sorority...ahem, fraternity Tri's in down at USC! And he's the only guy in his class in it. Gotta find out if he's getting a little "networking" done with his "brothers" 😉
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unfortunately (or fortunately if you're a frat person) you are right. lots of favoritism going on..."oh, you're an alpha, eh? i'm an alpha. hmmm. let me put your resume on the top of the pile..."
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Is this just something you've heard, or something you specifically know about from personal experience. It's my feelings that if you want to work somewhere, chances are all you have to is intern there (sometimes w/o pay), and prove your worth. Do you REALLY think that a reasonable person who is concerned with his patients' welfare and you NOT SCREWING UP is going to higher you just because "you're an alpha, I'm an alpha..." I'm sorry, I just don't believe it. The pharmacist is not worried about that. Besides, what are you going to do, talk about the good ole days of being an alpha in school...hah, that would last a day. The pharm just cares that you have some experience, possibly good refrences, and have a personality that is compatible.
Now don't get me wrong, I'm not a frat hater. I hang with frat guys occasionally. As mentioned, frats are an excellent resource, especially for old tests, stories about teachers, etc. With things like pharmacology, where some of the facts about a drug don't really change, a teacher is very likley to ask the same, or similar questions about it on his tests, because this is what we need to know, and what he deems important. All I'm really saying is that I don't think joining a frat will give you much, if any, of an edge in getting a job. Just my .02
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Not a retail job, but what about a clinical job or a highly sought after job?
I don't know. I've never been in a fraternity and never seen fraternity favoritism, but I'v also not gone after any jobs that didn't have # of applicants greater than the # of openings. 😉 But, I could easily see favoritism being given. Its an unwritten code in joining a fraternity, and is passed from generation to generation. Its a you scratch my back, maybe you'll scratch my back or my son's back when he's kappa psi; it's a version of nepotism in a sense.
I don't know. I've never been in a fraternity and never seen fraternity favoritism, but I'v also not gone after any jobs that didn't have # of applicants greater than the # of openings. 😉 But, I could easily see favoritism being given. Its an unwritten code in joining a fraternity, and is passed from generation to generation. Its a you scratch my back, maybe you'll scratch my back or my son's back when he's kappa psi; it's a version of nepotism in a sense.
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I'm gonna have to respond to this line by section.
Unfortunately, they do open doors. I know several peeps that got their positions bc they sent word out to frats before it was officially advertised. At least five.
I also know two classmates who got their positions in industry bc they were the sister frat of another frat at ucsf. It's BS, but it does happen.
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As far as my frat LKS, they're kinda pissin my **** off. I got a nasty call bc i didn't show up to a mandatory event. this was my response: I joined this frat bc it's supposedly dedicated to women's leadership and women's health. To date we haven't done one thing dedicated to these efforts. Everything has been social. Honestly, if i wanted to hang out with a bunch of chicks and party i woulda joined the alphas. I must confess the Phi Decs kinda freak me out.
lilmk is kinda right about this sectionalism amongst the frats that goes on. Our alphas only hang out w/ ea other and the phi decs seems to routinely piss peeps off in my class.
I honeslty don't even know who's in my pledge class in level I, which i think is pretty jacked up.
I'm debating how I'm gonna proceed. I like the idea a lot but i didn't do this to not make a difference.
The woman i spoke with is in the leadership of LKS and she was really sympathetic, so we'll have to see.
Unfortunately, they do open doors. I know several peeps that got their positions bc they sent word out to frats before it was officially advertised. At least five.
I also know two classmates who got their positions in industry bc they were the sister frat of another frat at ucsf. It's BS, but it does happen.
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As far as my frat LKS, they're kinda pissin my **** off. I got a nasty call bc i didn't show up to a mandatory event. this was my response: I joined this frat bc it's supposedly dedicated to women's leadership and women's health. To date we haven't done one thing dedicated to these efforts. Everything has been social. Honestly, if i wanted to hang out with a bunch of chicks and party i woulda joined the alphas. I must confess the Phi Decs kinda freak me out.
lilmk is kinda right about this sectionalism amongst the frats that goes on. Our alphas only hang out w/ ea other and the phi decs seems to routinely piss peeps off in my class.
I honeslty don't even know who's in my pledge class in level I, which i think is pretty jacked up.
I'm debating how I'm gonna proceed. I like the idea a lot but i didn't do this to not make a difference.
The woman i spoke with is in the leadership of LKS and she was really sympathetic, so we'll have to see.
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well, gravy and tri pretty much summed it up.
i mean, i totally agree w/you stevel. but i'm just sort of pointing out the reality of the situation. not that you won't be able to be a success based soley on your merit. you'll be fine w/out a frat. but we're all just saying that there seems to be some sort of hook up thing happening here. this is what i've heard, not experienced. but i've heard it directly from the recipients of the favoritism. most of my friends belong to a frat. i'm not in a frat myself so i haven't received any benefits to speak of. and i haven't applied yet for anything highly sought after. so no first hand experience here.
like you said, it's not really fair. and the frat person may not always be the best candidate or the most logical choice, but it happens. it just does.
now who have i heard all this from? like i said, my classmates. also during my level 1, when the frats were all recruiting pledges, the upper levels told us about some great hook ups they've received. and then there's the professors...yes professors. they too heavily emphasize the importance of connections and schmoozing. welcome to the world of pharmacy! This is the culture over at USC, at least. can't comment about what it's like elsewhere.
anyway, hope this helped a little.
i mean, i totally agree w/you stevel. but i'm just sort of pointing out the reality of the situation. not that you won't be able to be a success based soley on your merit. you'll be fine w/out a frat. but we're all just saying that there seems to be some sort of hook up thing happening here. this is what i've heard, not experienced. but i've heard it directly from the recipients of the favoritism. most of my friends belong to a frat. i'm not in a frat myself so i haven't received any benefits to speak of. and i haven't applied yet for anything highly sought after. so no first hand experience here.
like you said, it's not really fair. and the frat person may not always be the best candidate or the most logical choice, but it happens. it just does.
now who have i heard all this from? like i said, my classmates. also during my level 1, when the frats were all recruiting pledges, the upper levels told us about some great hook ups they've received. and then there's the professors...yes professors. they too heavily emphasize the importance of connections and schmoozing. welcome to the world of pharmacy! This is the culture over at USC, at least. can't comment about what it's like elsewhere.
anyway, hope this helped a little.
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Come now. That is a huge over-generalization. They ALL have no depth or substance? I had lots of friends in frats or sors and they were all pretty good people. There were people in them that fit your description, but most were just your average pharm students looking for some involvement or something to put on a resume to help secure their future.
It wasn't for me, mostly because I was married and wasn't looking for parties or mandatory meetings or too much involvement, but it did cross my mind that the benefits might be worth it.
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I'm fairly certainy I'm gonna DP this week. Just wanna tell my friends in LKS, before I have the offical meeting.
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yes. i've noticed this as well. the frats claim to be professional frats but at USC, they mostly just socialize. I think they TRY to do some important stuff but i don't know if that's a high priority.
SC people love to party!
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UCI circa 1990. I remember when a "good time" was the two for 99 cent night at the Del Taco on Campus Rd...or bargain night watching crappy movies with dormates at the Marketplace Edwards Cinema. Good gawd I miss Irvine. 😛
...obviously there wasn't much to do back in early 1990's UCI 😉
ok, because of someones suggestion, I am going to look through every thread here and learn. so heres an old thread i ran into in case anyones interested.
I am not sure if this is referring to ALL fraternities or just grad school ones. but I am a member of Alpha Kappa Psi at UC Davis. Now, it is a professional business fraternity and we not only STRESS professionalism, but we are very active in it. Hence, you can learn a thing or two that u can't learn in your econ class. For example, I am and have been the community service chair for a while now and my job is to coordinate service events and make sure 50 people do them. 😎 we also have other positions such as president, fundraising chair, etc etc. this gives everyone an opportunity to be a "leader" so during interviews (jobs or schools) when u say u are a leader, u can have concrete examples. it also helps us with public speaking with all of the presentations and speeches we make week after week.
To sum it up, I have only seen a few fraternities that actually seems worth it as far as developing your skills go. so if you can find one, i can honestly say it's worth it.
I am not sure if this is referring to ALL fraternities or just grad school ones. but I am a member of Alpha Kappa Psi at UC Davis. Now, it is a professional business fraternity and we not only STRESS professionalism, but we are very active in it. Hence, you can learn a thing or two that u can't learn in your econ class. For example, I am and have been the community service chair for a while now and my job is to coordinate service events and make sure 50 people do them. 😎 we also have other positions such as president, fundraising chair, etc etc. this gives everyone an opportunity to be a "leader" so during interviews (jobs or schools) when u say u are a leader, u can have concrete examples. it also helps us with public speaking with all of the presentations and speeches we make week after week.
To sum it up, I have only seen a few fraternities that actually seems worth it as far as developing your skills go. so if you can find one, i can honestly say it's worth it.
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Interesting Ed. My ex was in AK Psi at UCI. I thought it was completely ******ed. The hazing was ridiculous. The end goal was worthless. I'm glad your chapter was productive. Hers was not. I have never seen anything so stupid. Her little bro had to be taken to the hospital the day of his installs bc he fainted do to exhaustion from writing more than 18 hrs straight on his journal that was due!! I wanted to beat the crap out of the officers.
on a side note, Return of the King was at least an hour too long, and what's with all the crying?
on a side note, Return of the King was at least an hour too long, and what's with all the crying?
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yeah, i've heard of this same thing going on at another frat at uci. the one i'm referring to is a cultural one i guess (indian frat), where the hazing was supposed to be minimal. instead there was some harsh stuff going on that resulted in faintings and hospital visits like you mentioned, tri. yikes. but yeah, i guess it can really vary from chapter to chapter.
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Yeah, AK Psi is about 99% Asian and probably 1% Persian.
on a side note, i forgot to mention that the UC Davis chapter was founded by me and 49 other brothers in the November of 2002. So we are relatively new and we know about the other chapters. We had a few events in San Diego and its sad to say that the chapters down there are just as bad, if not worse than the social frats. We try very hard to stay away from that and keep true to our word. The hazing we mostly do is papers, presentations, leadership roles, fundraising, and the only one thats truly hazing is probably the grilling process. (which isnt as bad as jumping into a cold swimming pool during 30 degree nights in winter or 100 push ups after 10 shots of liquor. hehe) So you can't always judge a group based on the other chapters, HOWEVER i do agree that THEY do represent us.
Also, on the WEST COAST, AKPsi is 90% Asian but as soon as you stepover over east of the Mississippi, its as white as rice (spoken by an Asian here. hehe) A few of us went to a national convention in Chicago and DAMN. Asians were a minority.
Also, on the WEST COAST, AKPsi is 90% Asian but as soon as you stepover over east of the Mississippi, its as white as rice (spoken by an Asian here. hehe) A few of us went to a national convention in Chicago and DAMN. Asians were a minority.
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Good to hear.
Either way it'll look impressive that you founded a chapter. Kudos
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I'm a Sigma Chi (now an alummus), and while it is not a 'professional' fraternity (all the Rx fraternities I've come across are laughable...IMHO), I did learn a lot and would do it all over again in a heartbeat.
I spent 2 years of my undergrad before I pledged. Being stuck with the same type of people in science classes really started to wear on me. My brotherhood taught me how to deal with other types of people again. And sorority body shots and the University's tallest beer bong were pretty cool, too.
My brothers had plenty of substance...once you got to know them for the people they were, and didn't gloss over them because they had letters on their t-shirts. They just were pharmacy students. And you'll most likely be dealing with more of them than with more of us if/when you get out. My greek experience truly left me a more rounded individual.
Then again, it isn't for everyone. My fiancee Pharm.D. quit her sorority because of some of the stupid things they did.
eddie's got the right idea: you can't judge a whole fraternity based on a chapter. I've met Sigs at regional meetings that I could never invite into my chapter. Just as I've met pharmacists that I hesitate to call pharmacists.
And in the immortal words of my pledge father (BTW, a PhD in Biochemistry now): Don't call a fraternity a frat. You don't call your country a c- never mind...
I spent 2 years of my undergrad before I pledged. Being stuck with the same type of people in science classes really started to wear on me. My brotherhood taught me how to deal with other types of people again. And sorority body shots and the University's tallest beer bong were pretty cool, too.
My brothers had plenty of substance...once you got to know them for the people they were, and didn't gloss over them because they had letters on their t-shirts. They just were pharmacy students. And you'll most likely be dealing with more of them than with more of us if/when you get out. My greek experience truly left me a more rounded individual.
Then again, it isn't for everyone. My fiancee Pharm.D. quit her sorority because of some of the stupid things they did.
eddie's got the right idea: you can't judge a whole fraternity based on a chapter. I've met Sigs at regional meetings that I could never invite into my chapter. Just as I've met pharmacists that I hesitate to call pharmacists.
And in the immortal words of my pledge father (BTW, a PhD in Biochemistry now): Don't call a fraternity a frat. You don't call your country a c- never mind...
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I crossed yesterday. It was pretty crazy. It was at our faculty advisor's house, which was simply put: the nicest home i've ever seen in my life. This woman is loaded!!! She has these nutso greek columns in her backyard. It looked like a more modern version of the hearst mansion.
Not bad for pharmacoeconomics professor (she makes all her dough doing consulting though, but i can do that!!!)
At any rate, I'm committed to Lambda Kappa Sigma now..........
It'll be a good thing though. I actually think the installs were really good in re-focusing a lot of the peeps including the actives on what we're trying to do as far as women's health and leadership. I'll be there to remind them if they forget though.
Not bad for pharmacoeconomics professor (she makes all her dough doing consulting though, but i can do that!!!)
At any rate, I'm committed to Lambda Kappa Sigma now..........
It'll be a good thing though. I actually think the installs were really good in re-focusing a lot of the peeps including the actives on what we're trying to do as far as women's health and leadership. I'll be there to remind them if they forget though.
Ok here come my 2 cents on this subject.
In undergrad i was in a sorority and now I am an active member of Kappa Psi.
I have been to many conventions and done TONS of networking with some very important people.
Yes people party but most of my class that parties is not in a frat or a sorority.
I have a very strong resume b/c of my affiliations with my undergrad sorority and the work i've done as an alum, and now my current affiliation with kappa psi and other organizations i participate in. No i don't have a 4.0 but i have shown very strong leadership skills. Those are the skills that will help me move up the ladder very quickly.
You don't have to be in a frat or a sorority to get involved but the key is to be involved. Be a leader if you want to be anything other than staff.
and when you walk in to an interview and see the membership certificate of the person interviewing you hanging on the wall, you know its going to be good.
In undergrad i was in a sorority and now I am an active member of Kappa Psi.
I have been to many conventions and done TONS of networking with some very important people.
Yes people party but most of my class that parties is not in a frat or a sorority.
I have a very strong resume b/c of my affiliations with my undergrad sorority and the work i've done as an alum, and now my current affiliation with kappa psi and other organizations i participate in. No i don't have a 4.0 but i have shown very strong leadership skills. Those are the skills that will help me move up the ladder very quickly.
You don't have to be in a frat or a sorority to get involved but the key is to be involved. Be a leader if you want to be anything other than staff.
and when you walk in to an interview and see the membership certificate of the person interviewing you hanging on the wall, you know its going to be good.
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I hate to post this but I feel this has to be addressed.
I recently came to the frank realization that being involved in pharmacy organizations is not beneficial to my career. I would even argue it is counterproductive. When I interviewed at Kaiser, the pharmacy manager was not impressed that I am really involve in different organizations on campus. The subject did come up but not in a positive way. She questioned if I have the time, energy, and commitment to work for Kaiser while being involved in school and holding an officer position. I had to assure her a couple of times that I will balance my time wisely and work is more important to me but she was worried.
I would say that working in a retail pharmacy or hospital is like working in a chemistry laboratory; your employer does not care if you are some president of an organization as long as you get the job done. Your pharmacy manager only cares for one thing and that is the best interest of the pharmacy. It might be beneficial if you are applying for business related pharmacy positions but not for retails or hospitals. If you want to be involved, then do it but don't do it because you think it will benefit your career. If you want to stand out then get some pharmacy related experience because that is the most important thing to employers.
There are plenty of opportunities to network in pharmacy school whether you are a member of an organization or not. You will see the same faces 5 days a week; sometimes even 6 or 7 days a week. I still remember during orientation week, I asked my friend if he is planning to pledge for a fraternity for networking purposes and he replied, ?I will make my own networking? and he sure did. He is one of the few that received the Sav-On summer internship position.
I am not trying to discourage anyone from being involved but take it with a gain of salt when people tell you that being involved will help you land an awesome intern position or whatever. I did meet a lot of great people and my experience in pharmacy school would have been a lot different if I were not involved in any organizations.
I recently came to the frank realization that being involved in pharmacy organizations is not beneficial to my career. I would even argue it is counterproductive. When I interviewed at Kaiser, the pharmacy manager was not impressed that I am really involve in different organizations on campus. The subject did come up but not in a positive way. She questioned if I have the time, energy, and commitment to work for Kaiser while being involved in school and holding an officer position. I had to assure her a couple of times that I will balance my time wisely and work is more important to me but she was worried.
I would say that working in a retail pharmacy or hospital is like working in a chemistry laboratory; your employer does not care if you are some president of an organization as long as you get the job done. Your pharmacy manager only cares for one thing and that is the best interest of the pharmacy. It might be beneficial if you are applying for business related pharmacy positions but not for retails or hospitals. If you want to be involved, then do it but don't do it because you think it will benefit your career. If you want to stand out then get some pharmacy related experience because that is the most important thing to employers.
There are plenty of opportunities to network in pharmacy school whether you are a member of an organization or not. You will see the same faces 5 days a week; sometimes even 6 or 7 days a week. I still remember during orientation week, I asked my friend if he is planning to pledge for a fraternity for networking purposes and he replied, ?I will make my own networking? and he sure did. He is one of the few that received the Sav-On summer internship position.
I am not trying to discourage anyone from being involved but take it with a gain of salt when people tell you that being involved will help you land an awesome intern position or whatever. I did meet a lot of great people and my experience in pharmacy school would have been a lot different if I were not involved in any organizations.
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i guess it all depends on an individual basis because i know people that have came out good because of fraternity/sorority relations while others find them to be burdensome(for lack of a better word). I am thinking of joining one in pharmacy school but I am wondering if they bare a similiarity to the ones in undergrad. hmmm? I heard that frats are kinda big at usc and some other pharm. schools so maybe it would be beneficial to join one while attending a school such as those or ANY school for that matter. so for those of you in frats now or who know friends in frats do u recommend joining one and if so why/why not?
it really depends on the chapter of the organization you are looking to join. Here Kappa Psi is co-ed and is nothing like an undergrad frat. Other places it is all male and it strongly resembles my undergrad days.
i have heard that PDC is nothing like undergrad but again, i assume it depends on where you are.
I suggest that if you are interested, you feel it out and if you like it and the people then go for it. If you don't then you can always quit during pledging.
We do have mandatory study hours as well as community service.
And while yes you can network if you aren't in an organization but i know pharmacists from all over the country (and a few other countries) because of the national and regional meetings i have attended and i don't believe that someone who is not involved in anything has that opportunity.
i have heard that PDC is nothing like undergrad but again, i assume it depends on where you are.
I suggest that if you are interested, you feel it out and if you like it and the people then go for it. If you don't then you can always quit during pledging.
We do have mandatory study hours as well as community service.
And while yes you can network if you aren't in an organization but i know pharmacists from all over the country (and a few other countries) because of the national and regional meetings i have attended and i don't believe that someone who is not involved in anything has that opportunity.
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bbmuffin said:
It is different at USC. You do not have to be a member of Academy of Managed Care Pharmacy (AMCP) or American Pharmacy Student Alliance (APSA) to attend its conventions and you can network as much as your heart desire at those conventions. I really feel it ultimately depends on you. If you are an outgoing person with good interpersonal skills, people will notice you regardless. I, however, do agree with you that there are more opportunities to network when you are apart of an organization but is knowing a pharmacist in Canada and some other state really make that big of a difference? Probably not.
I asked a pharmacist if joining a fraternity was beneficial to her career and she replied, "Not really, there are so many openings right now". I totally agree with her. There are so many opportunities in pharmacy right now that networking is not as important as it used to be. Hospitals and retails are always emailing our class looking for interns. I have good friends that are really active in school and some are not so active but they are all working.
BMBiology said:
And it probably wont' be beneficial if you want to work a staff job or work retail.
I know you can go to meetings without being a member but i didn't think you could go to the national conventions without at least being a member of the organizations.
I would say it depends on what you want to do as a pharmacist as to whether or not you should join an organization.
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