HPSP for clinical psychology students

Discussion in 'Psychology [Psy.D. / Ph.D.]' started by 73BARMYPgsp, May 6, 2008.

  1. 73BARMYPgsp

    73BARMYPgsp Post Doc

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    Alright-

    This is intended to be the first post in a sticky about HPSP for clinical psychology. I will attempt here to cover the basics, and then check in periodically if there are specific questions not answered.

    1. What is it? HPSP stands for Health Professions Scholarship Program. It is a scholarship in the sense that you don't have to pay the money back, but in return for the tuition, books and stipend you owe the military time as an active duty psychologist. HPSP is also for dentists, MD's, nurses, and what not, but the clinical psychology part of the program is quite different in several key ways.

    2. Which services offer it? Army, AF, Navy. The Marines receive their medical care from the Navy, so there is no such thing as a Marine psychologist. (At least not a provider)

    3. When do you apply? You should begin the process in or around December, as it takes about 3-5 months to actually find out if you are accepted. You must go through MEPS (Military Entrance Processing Station) to get your physical, fill out a huge application packet, go through a background investigation, and wait. While you are waiting, your packet goes to Ft. Sam Houston (Army--The Navy and AF do something similar) and is reviewed by a centralized board of officers. This is called being "borded." If there is anything missing from your packet (and there will be) you will be asked to produce it. After all of these errors are corrected, the US Senate must confirm your nomination to be a military officer. THEN you are sworn in as a 0-1. (Army/AF Second Lieutenant or Navy Ensign, Junior Grade.)

    4. What happens next? In the fall of the next academic year, you begin to receive your stipend, and the school gets paid tuition. About a million things will go wrong with this part as well. Get used to it, it's the military.

    5. What are my obligations while in school? Pass all your classes, comps and finish your dissertation if possible.

    6. What year can I apply? You can start in December of your first year, but most people do not get it that year, because the military would rather pay less of your tuition. You can reapply, the 2nd and 3rd years, but the committment is the same (3 years--POST LICENSURE).

    7. If I get it, what happens in the 4th year? The same things that happen to everyone else, except your APPIC Application is a little different. You are obligated to apply to the military sites and you must rank them 1-5 (for the Army) and I think the AF and Navy have 2 sites. You can apply for civilian sites as well, but why? You have about a 99.9% chance of matching with the military and you have to take it when you do. You have to rank those civilian sites below the military sites, and there is no doubt that if you take a civilian deferment to one of them you will make WAY LESS MONEY while an intern. Internship on Active Duty is the start of your time as such, but NOT YOUR PAYBACK.

    8. What is the pay? Assuming you have no prior service, it will be 0-3 (Army/AF=Captain, Navy=Liuetenant) with 0 years time in service. I am not going to post pay scales here, because they change almost every year. Just type in "Military Pay Tables" and it is all over the internet. Look up "0-3, 0 years in service." That's the monthly pay. Plus you get BAH (Basic Allowance for Housing) and BAS (Basic Allowance for Sustinence). These are both untaxed and BAH is based on zip code. Add all that up, and that's how much you will make, starting from the FIRST DAY of your internship on active duty. That is better than just about any internship in the country with maybe the exception of some prisons.

    9. When does my payback start? AFTER YOUR LICENSE IS ACQUIRED. The Military does not care what state you have your license, but you have to have one before you start your payback. That means you will probably do a couple of "free" years for them before you start whittling away at the 3 year committment.

    10. Do psychologists deploy? YES. Everyone in uniform has a mission they perform "in garrison" (on post) and "in the field." It is usually the same thing. Psychologists have a field mission, which means they go to scary places like Iraq. Do not let a recruiter tell you "oh, you'll just be in a medical center the whole time." They are lying.

    Now for a few pearls of wisdom that only come from having been in the Army for minute. ("For a minute" is sarcastic Army slang, for "for a while.")-

    Since HPSP is primarily used up by MD's, Dentists, and such AND since recruiters rotate out about every 2 years a clinical psychology student who calls them and wants to apply is an anomaly, and therefore firghtens and confuses them. While you go through the process it will feel as if they have NEVER DONE THIS BEFORE. This is because they haven't. MD's and everyone have very different timelines, internships, residencies, etc and so their programs are different. The Army only recruits about 18 HPSP students per year, as opposed to 100's of MD's. To use our terminology, your application is a "low base rate phenomenon" and therefore they will mess it up.

    Do not lose hope however. There is light at the end of the incompetent recruiter tunnel. If you absolutely love the idea of doing this as an Army/AF/Navy officer, all the BS is worth it.

    But DO be ready, patient and willing to harrass people at the local recruiting station, for they will:

    1. Lose paperwork.
    2. Not know the answers to routine questions.
    3. Not return your phone calls.
    4. Change who your assigned recruiter is and neglect to tell you.
    5. Go on leave RIGHT AT THE TIME the Senate is confirming candidates.
    6. Etc.

    The lesson is this: In the miltary, you have to MAKE PEOPLE do their job. It is a bummer, but an unfortunate by-product of an organization of over 1 million people.

    Caveat!!! DO NOT TAKE HPSP FOR THE MONEY!! Do it because you LOVE the idea of being a military psychologist, not a psychologist who happens to be in the military and you are just biting your time until your comittment is up. You will be miserable, and make your colleauges miserable.

    Thats all I have for now. T4C said he would move it or whatever and make a sticky out of it.
     
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  3. american red

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    From the CPT who presented HPSP at my school:

    How much control did you have over where you were stationed and deployed?


    "Limited. You and the other interns will be provided a list of places that need psychologists. Usually there is some intel related to when those units are deploying but not always. You will rank order where you want to go out of those choices and, based on the ranking of you and your peers, you will be assigned and subsequently deployed to where ever that unit is slated to go."


    Note: This particular CPT was made Company Commander when he was deployed to Iraq so it is possible. From Wikipedia: "In the United States Army, the commanding officer of a company is a Company Commander. A company typically consists of 100-200 soldiers. The position of company commander is usually held by a captain, (one with usually approximately 3 to 6 years of service as an officer). As commanding officer, he or she exercises full command and control over the unit and may exercise non-judicial punishment authority over the personnel in the unit.
     
  4. teamworm

    teamworm 4th Year Psych -Army HPSP

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    Based on meeting with COL Crow at FHP:

    As a new Army psychologist, there is one single factor that will determine whether or not you get a choice in where you serve. This is: how soon you get licensed. If you piddle around and don't finish your dissertation, then spend your residency year not working on licensure, then you will not have any input into your permanent duty station. However, if you complete your dissertation prior to internship, and get licensed ASAP (i.e., in WA or AL) then you will have more say in where you are stationed.

    Keep in mind, in the 3 years that you owe the Army for HPSP/CPIP, plan to spend one of them deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan.
     
  5. BDuPre

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    Hello all,

    I'm getting ready to apply to clinical psych. programs and the HPSP from the Army. My question is: how many years does the scholarship cover? I've heard 2-3 years. So, if they only cover 2-3 years, and I take 5-6 to complete my PhD, how would it work out? Would I still have to do 45 days of active duty for the years that they do not cover? I'm kind of confused on how it all works out right now.

    Thanks!
     
  6. leavingprov

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    This may be a little tangential to the nuts and bolts of the program as have been listed above, but if you are openly LGB or T is it likely you won't be considered for this scholarship when being 'boarded'? Thanks for your input!
     
  7. Markp

    Markp Clinical Psychologist

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    I thought that was kinda obvious?
     
  8. 73BARMYPgsp

    73BARMYPgsp Post Doc

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    I would expect this to change with the new administration, but for now openly gay=no go.
     
  9. leavingprov

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    Mark-- if it was obvious I wouldn't have asked it :-/

    Thanks Barmy for the clarification. We're all still waiting around here for those changes and hoping that you're right about the new administration.
     
  10. Markp

    Markp Clinical Psychologist

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    Sorry if I sounded a bit insensitive, but this has been the way it's been for nearly the past 2 decades, of which I have served during 12 years thus far. I remember a friend of mine who was the target of an "anti-gay" witch hunt shortly before Don't Ask, Don't Tell. I ended up having him move into my house to avoid the persecution that he was facing from living in the barracks.

    Personally, I think it's a silly policy. The reality is that there are plenty of gay and lesbian service members, it's a matter of not making a statement about it. At this point, it would appear, that you would practically have to go to your commander and confess to engaging in active homosexual activity and intentionally push to get released from service. I know that many medical professionals (to include psychologists) won't violate patient confidentiality over this subject. It's a sticky situation from an ethics standpoint as it puts the medical professional in the ethical dilemma of choosing between professional and military ethics, both of which are held in high regard by military medical professionals.

    Mark
     
  11. FahlenStar

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    I was wondering if there were any major differences in serving in the army versus the navy/marines (as a clinical psychologist). I read up a bit on serving as a navy psychologist and my main concern (how silly it may be) is that I would have to do residency on a boat when I tend to get seasick easily. :eek: My boyfriend (who served in the navy) told me I would get my 'sea legs' in no time so this shouldn't be too big of a concern. Any other differences in terms of populations you would help, areas you could work in, etc?
     
  12. Markp

    Markp Clinical Psychologist

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    In reality, there are only 12 shipboard positions at this time. If you want to avoid a carrier tour, it's possible. I hate boats too... :) and yes, I am in the Navy preparing to be a clinical psychologist. That said, I would give my left arm to do a carrier tour, they sound awesome from peers who have had the experience.

    Your internship as a Navy psychologist will be shore duty in the US at one of 3 locations. Portsmith, VA, San Diego, CA, or Bethesda, MD. Those are the ONLY locations where Navy interns go. After Internship, you will likely be assigned to a medical treatment facility, I am not aware of any Interns this year going directly to a carrier from Bethesda. Now while I have a great deal of respect for my Army peers, I would not want to trade places with them... I am happy with my decision to go Navy.

    So that's what I know about it.

    Mark

    PS - The Marines do not have any psychologists, the Navy does provide psychologists to work closely with Marines in a number of billets.
     
  13. FahlenStar

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    Thank you Markp for your help and insightful information! :)
     
  14. roubs

    roubs Ph.D. Student

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    Hey--this page makes it seem like for the psychology program that they only do tuition/stipend for 2 years. Does this mean there is no scholarship for a 4th year if you get accepted for the beginning of 2nd yr?

    http://www.goarmy.com/amedd/graduate.jsp
     
  15. Markp

    Markp Clinical Psychologist

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    That's what it says, who knows, each branch of service has different rules and each one can change the rules each year. That is why it is important to get a recruiter who really knows the system and to get plugged in with the right people. It may be only the last 2 years are covered in the Army.

    Mark
     
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  17. AMEDD Officer

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    The 3rd and 4th academic years are covered in a traditional 4yrs + internship program. If you were to apply at the beginning of your 2nd year (which is advisable), you would be selected around February of your 2nd year, and the benefits would kick in at the beginning of your third year.
     
  18. AMEDD Officer

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    This initial post has some excellent information in it, but there are a couple of points that need clarification and updates.

    The timeline is the single most inportant factor about the process of applying for Clinical Psychology HPSP, and the December application start time that was mentioned is FAR TOO LATE. I emphasize this so strongly because if you wait until Dec. of your 2nd year to apply, you are virtually assuring that your application will not make it to board on time. For the Army, this board only happens once a year, so if you miss it you are out of luck.

    Start working with a knowledgeable recruiter (contrary to the posting, there are a few of them out there) at the end of your first year, or no later than the START of your second year, to give yourself the time needed to do a physical exam and gather all of the necessary application documents (of which there are many). I have no doubt that some of the "recruiter issues" mentioned are a result of applicants applying too late, and then scrambling to try to get everything ready in time. Save yourself that headache, and allow the necessary time to put together a top-notch application.

    Lastly, I will echo the original author by saying that if you are considering HPSP just for the money, and aren't sure you really want to be a military psychologist, then either get the info you need to be 110% sure, or find another source of funds. We (the Army Medical Department) only have room for the best and most dedicated psychologists who love what they do and love being a soldier/officer.
     
  19. AMEDD Officer

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    The easy solution is to go Army, where you would have the same range of populations and treatments as the Navy (and probably more than AF - no offense), with five internship locations choices - Seattle, WA, Augusta, GA, San Antonio, TX, Washington DC, and Honolulu, HI. Army also has a lot more scholarship and internship openings each year than the other branches, but the competition for these is stiff. If your GPA is in the upper 3's and you have a clean background with phenomenal letters of recommendation, then you would have a good shot in any branch, but more land-based options for internship and subsequent assignments in the Army than in the other branches.
     
  20. Hi,

    A couple questions:

    1. During school, are clin psych HPSP students required to do all their practicum training (externships) at military sites, or can they be civilian hospitals/sites?

    2. During school, are clin psych HPSP students required to do the AT every year, or is this deferred?

    3. Does the military clin psych internship count towards the active duty payback?

    4. How does a clin psych HPSP acquire post-doc hours for licensure? Is this in a normal civilian post-doc? Or is it in a Naval site? If it is in a naval site, does it count towards the active duty payback?

    5. For the 3 years of active duty payback, are clin psychologists ever deployed to actual war-zones, like the front-lines of Iraq? Or are they deployed to bases where Naval soldiers are working?

    6. After the 3yrs of active duty are complete, is the clin psych HPSP'er responsible for reserve duty? If so, how long does that last? If so, what does this entail? How likely is deployment during those reserve years? During the reserve yrs, can the clin psych have a civilian life and practice? If they have a civilian life and practice, what happens if they are deployed? While on reserve, is there a limit to how many times/how long you are deployed? Does one have any choice about whether or not s/he will be deployed during reserve, or where the assignment will take place?

    Thanks!!
    c.
     
  21. kinzie

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    I've been told answers to some of these question, but not others. I've talked to a couple of current Navy psychologists, and one recruiter, but I would verify all of this with a recruiter yourself.

    1. No. Practicum training is between you and your program. That said, your placements before being selected for scholarship can affect your chances of getting the scholarship in the first place. If you've only worked with adolescent populations, for example, you won't be as competitive.

    2. AT is done annually. I've heard of the length of time being shortened to match some programs that have a short summer break, but I don't know if they would waive it. I'd ask a recruiter.

    3. Active duty payback begins once you have been licensed. This is because you cannot be deployed before you are licensed. It is to stop people from avoiding licensure to avoid deployment. You can work to be licensed based on the requirements of any state you choose, so I've been told that most get it done in a year.

    4. You are commissioned prior to your internship year. That means you will work for the military, in military locations, from then on. Again, no payback begins until you are licensed. (On the positive side, that means you start making military salary from then on).

    5. Yes, if we are still at war, there is a high chance you will be deployed at least once. In the Navy, average deployment is six months. Generally it doesn't happen more often than once per 2 years, but that's no set rule. I know some psychologists who were assigned to hospitals in Iraq and others to the front lines. You can also be sent to non-war zones. I know one person who was part of the fleet sent to Haiti after the earthquake.

    6. I haven't seen or heard of reserve requirements. The rest of your questions deal with the reserves, which I have no experience with.


     
  22. urlelove

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    First let me state that under the new fraternization policy that the military has it won't be possible for you . That's a no go any more.
     
  23. what is this referring to? what is the fraternization policy, and what won't be possible, and for whom? Thanks!
     
  24. Does anyone out there know the deal on reserve commitments after finishing the 3yr active duty requirement for Navy HPSP Clinical Psychologists? I have not yet heard back from the recruiter (been a week and a half), and trying to get some detailed info.

    thanks so much!


     
  25. DocRacz

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    Glad I'm not the only one having trouble with a recruiter - AF, Army and Navy all are taking ages to get back to me (figured this would be so, but still...c'mon, I want to get this in already)
     
  26. Rivi

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    I have a few questions for anyone knowledgeable about military stuff. I have been speaking with an AF recruiter about the HPSP but I don't really trust her. She says that the boards have already met for the HPSP for next year (2011-2012) but that there are still slots open for it for 2011-2012 and that if I get my packet together by late March I will be eligible for the 2011-2012 HPSP, despite the fact that the formal deadline has already passed. Anyone know if this is accurate?

    -Would I be able to do a 2 year post-doc in neuropsychology in a civilian hospital after being an HPSP student or am I obligated to do a residency at an AF site?

    Thanks everyone
     
  27. PsychStudent101

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    Gonna do my best to answer some of these questions. Man, I am really thankful that I have a knowledgeable recruiter!

    I was told that there is a total of 7-8 (can't remember which) total duty commitment. After you do your three years of active duty, you can go on reserves for the rest of the time. Though, under the current LRP, you can do an extra three years of active duty (that you can serve as part of your total duty) for 80k in LR.

    I wonder if this has to do with the part of the country you live in. I have no idea why you would have such difficulty finding someone. Contact Dr. Eric Getka, the national director of Navy Psychology training programs, at 301-295-2476 or [email protected]

    I have no idea if all branches choose their HPSP students at the same time, but I know the Navy has not chosen yet and their deadline for having your application packet sent in is a month from now-- April 1st. And if it's anything like the Navy, I believe you would have to stick with the AF until your payback is complete. Thus, you wouldn't be able to work in a civilian hospital until you are eligible for reserves.


    I am only in the application process for the Navy HPSP, so it's possible that I got some of the numbers wrong.
     
  28. UhOh

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    I realize from the previous posts that people interested in the HPSP should begin the application process at the beginning of their 2nd year in a clinical program. I'm wondering whether people who earn their master's and then enter a clinical program would still have to wait until their 2nd year in a clinical program to begin the application process?
     
  29. PsychStudent101

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    Actually, as I understand it. The Navy (in my case) HPSP pays for your 2nd-4th years. Thus, you need to apply during your first year. This is assuming you are in a Ph.D. program. They pay for three years of school (not including internship). So if you are in a four year Psy.D. program, you would need to apply before you are even in school (though, I am not sure if this is possible). I was informed that only Ph.D. students can apply for HPSP because of that requirement.

    Contact Dr. Getka (email address is above) with any questions you may have.
     
  30. I am also currently applying for the Navy HPSP, and I would love to ask you if you have any fears about being deployed during your AD to Afghanistan and Iraq. Currently, they are only deploying to those two places and Guantanamo Bay. I have read some narratives written by those just returning, and they are terrifying. It is not necessarily true (as is naively believed by most) that we will always be safely tucked away in a hospital. We may be called on to go into the field and debrief with wounded soldiers as combat is occurring.
     
  31. also, would you mind saying where you are at school? If you want to keep it confidential, that's totally understandable. We may end up being colleagues.
     
  32. DocRacz

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    Honestly? If you're not up for being deployed, DON'T do HPSP. For me, HPSP has always made sense: I was a Marine Corps. brat, spent my early childhood on a base, always envisioned myself working with the military in some way, and honestly have a sense of excitement at the thought of being deployed. I cannot understand why someone would want to work with the military population but not be deployed (in that case, work at a VA).
     
  33. paramour

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    THIS. :thumbup:

    I used to know folks who "wanted" to enlist in the military for perceived benefits but they feared deployment, so they opted to enlist in the Nat'l Guard instead because "they're never deployed." That worked well. :rolleyes:

    If you're going to serve in the military, do it because you TRULY want to serve and you believe that you can tolerate/deal with everything that it entails (or at least what counts). If you simply want to serve the population, but you're uncertain that you're unable to cope with the military lifestyle, then you need to strongly reconsider.
     
  34. Respectfully, deployment does not necessarily mean combat zones. There is a distinction between the two. Not wanting to go into a combat zone does not generalize into deployment to bases.
     
  35. paramour

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    You are correct, but there also is no guarantee that you will receive combat free deployment(s). If one cannot face the possibility that you may very well end up in a combat zone, then I would consider other options. Just my $0.02.
     
  36. PsychStudent101

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    I realize that deploying is a real possibility. In fact, during an interview today, I was told to think of it as a near certainty. I have no problem with this. I will not lie and say that I am not nervous about deploying, but it comes with the territory. If I was at all worried about it, I would not apply for the scholarship. It's not matter of if, but when. I have always had a desire to serve my country, and I feel strongly about doing what I can to serve those who defend our nation.

    I actually would prefer to remain anonymous for now. This is a small community. If I get accepted, I'll contact you via PM and give you my information. I wouldn't at all be opposed to meeting up at some point if we are both accepted. :D

    This. Again, it's going to happen at some point.
     
  37. Rivi

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    Does the HPSP, the internship, or the post-doc count towards your retirement time (if you were planning on doing 20 years)?
     
  38. PsychStudent101

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    In regards to the Navy, I believe it starts "counting" once you begin your post-doc. Though, I wouldn't be surprised if internship counts as well. Anytime before internship definitely does not count though. If you are an HPSP student, you do have to opportunity to do some of type of reserve duty during the summer in which get you get paid plus benefits. Those summers may count towards your retirement.
     
  39. paramour

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    Actually both internship & postdoc count as time-in and so should count towards retirement. HPSP would not.
     
  40. psydtobe

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    question about being licensed. i am very interested in the program and i saw in a story someone who got licensed in alabama to begin their repayment back asap and be deployed (their choice). i am wondering how that works? do you not have to be a resident of the state you choose to be licensed in?
     
  41. DocRacz

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    Cstar - check your PM's
     
  42. psydtobe

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    Also anyone intern at Wright-Patterson? The program looks GREAT
     
  43. Anthockey00

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    I am curious if anyone knows details about the Navy's HPSP Clin.Psych. board beyond what is posted on the Navy's Psychology (bethesda site) and the NAVMED site for HPSP. Specifically, when would the hard deadline be for packages/kits to be submitted?

    Why I ask . . . . I completed all the paperwork requirements for the package in November 10' and completed the interview in Jan 11'. However, (1) I have not received confirmation that my package has been submitted and (2) I do not know if there are any consequences if the submission is delayed for x amount of days or weeks.

    I have asked these questions of the recruiter, but have not received direct answers. This concerns me because as a Navy veteran I know that if you aren't on top of and extremely proactive with requirments for packages/boards, then you can expect to not come out on top.

    I'm not asking about when results come out, as I know that is a topic many people are curious about.

    By the way . . . I would be happy to answer questions about Navy life in this forum as I was enlisted for 8 years prior to beginning graduate school.
     
    #41 Anthockey00, Mar 10, 2011
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2011
  44. lseefeld

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    Does anyone on here know if a soldier currently on active duty can be eligible for this scholarship? I'm currently enlisted in the Army and am attempting to find a way to comission as an Army Psychologist.
     
    #42 lseefeld, Mar 12, 2011
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2011
  45. mvan1

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    Yes. Do you already have your undergrad complete?
     
  46. lseefeld

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    Yes I do, BA in Psychology from USC-Columbia, SC.
     
  47. mvan1

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    Ok. If your gpa, experience, and military service record is competitive you should talk to a medical recruiter. USUHS may be an option as well
     
  48. lseefeld

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    @mvan1: I've applied to USUHS for the upcoming Army enrollment (ie 2012 academic year) and have yet to receive notification of a decision. I'm just trying to see the other options available to commission because I know USUHS is so highly competitive. My experience with Army AMEDD recruiters is much less than favorable, currently preparing to file IG if that gives you any idea, so trying to use other avenues to gather information.
     
  49. mvan1

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    Got ya. It's not an easy path thats for sure. The military system operates great until you throw a wrench in it, after that it takes time, patience, and contacting as many people as necessary to get the answers you need (with the understanding they may not be what you want). If there's one thing I've learned through my experiences (transitioning from enlisted Marine to USUHS acceptance for a Navy seat this Fall) it's to never disqualify yourself; let someone else tell you no. Best of luck and feel free to message me if you have any specific questions.
     
  50. psych0509

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    Has anyone heard any results from the boards that were held this past wednesday?
     
  51. DocRacz

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    psych509 - I've been waiting to hear from my recruiter for over 2 weeks now, and nothing. Would be nice to know if I'm still in the running or not!
     
  52. psyc380

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    I would keep asking. I received my official select letter last week Monday from my recruiter and a call from Dr. Getka.
     

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