Hypothetical Mess

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ziffy 850

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SO-HYPOTHETICALLY-IF I DON'T MATCH in em(which I may not because of the worst board scores you could imagine) what makes the most sense-preliminary year or transitional year(but don't I have to have matched into a 2-4 program) or a different route if I ultimately want to do EM. I'm afraid if I do a prelim year I might just be postponing the disappointment of not matching again. If I do well clinically, will it be enough to overcome? At the age of 25, is my career over before it begins?

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i wish i was still 25!!! aaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhh...........!!!! wake up old man!!!!!
 
SO-HYPOTHETICALLY-IF I DON'T MATCH in em(which I may not because of the worst board scores you could imagine) what makes the most sense-preliminary year or transitional year(but don't I have to have matched into a 2-4 program) or a different route if I ultimately want to do EM. I'm afraid if I do a prelim year I might just be postponing the disappointment of not matching again. If I do well clinically, will it be enough to overcome? At the age of 25, is my career over before it begins?

Visit my humble blog and scroll down from here:

http://pandabearmd.blogspot.com/2006/03/residency-match-part-4.html


For God's sake, apply to a lot of programs. Go nuts. If your board scores are that low (the mean Step 1 for EM is 220) then you will need a lot of interviews. Statistically, if I recall the NRMP data which made the tour of these forums a month ago, greater then 96 percent of people who interviewed at 10 or more EM programs matched into one of them.

I have a little more experience than most people on the EM board in not matching because I didn't in the 2005 match and had to reapply for 2006. I reiterate, if I could go back and do anything over again (I mean other than studying harder...come on...let's not get ridiculous) it would be to apply to more programs. I only applied to 24 and just didn't get the critical mass to match as I am only a so-so applicant on paper.

I don't Think preliminary or transitional makes too much of a difference. Just don't accept a categorical spot in anything because this will hurt you from the point of view of funding while a resident. (You are only fully-funded through medicare for the length of your initial residency.) Either way you need to excell and get some new LORs. But apply to a lot of programs. It's not too late.

Oh, and at 25, you are still a pup and your career is not over. I laugh (good naturedly, of course) at the very idea of this.
 
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SO-HYPOTHETICALLY-IF I DON'T MATCH in em(which I may not because of the worst board scores you could imagine) what makes the most sense-preliminary year or transitional year(but don't I have to have matched into a 2-4 program) or a different route if I ultimately want to do EM. I'm afraid if I do a prelim year I might just be postponing the disappointment of not matching again. If I do well clinically, will it be enough to overcome? At the age of 25, is my career over before it begins?



If you don't match you'll end up at King/Drew. If you don't scramble there it becomes much more complicated. I sense burger flipping to be involved.
 
SO, you guys think I can still match if I apply to a lot of programs? I was thinking 40-seems like a lot, but is that enough? I'm thinking I may not get any interviews, except courtesy ones from rotations. I FAILED Step 1, retook and barely passed. I took Step 2, but probably did not do well. Clinicals and Lors are good (honors and high pass), but I think my boards will preclude me from getting interviews. I know 25 may seem young, but I just spent the last four years of my life (as you all did) killing myself with the goal of em in mind. NOW WHAT? Suggestions on programs that might take a chance on me?
 
It may seem like alot of extra money applying to 40 programs. But if you consider how much you pay in your education to become a doctor, a few extra hundred dollars here and there isnt really that much if it means being certain you find the right place to go for residency. Throw out a huge net, then when the interviews offers come in you can be selective.

And you can apply for prelim or transitional on it's own without committing yourself to a 2-4 program. My personal recommendation is to apply to a prelim program, because if you do well and you like it, there might be a spot available for you to continue in that specialty. Maybe not guaranteed, but from what I have seen, usually a spot opens up. Anyway, good luck.
 
SO, you guys think I can still match if I apply to a lot of programs? I was thinking 40-seems like a lot, but is that enough? I'm thinking I may not get any interviews, except courtesy ones from rotations. I FAILED Step 1, retook and barely passed. I took Step 2, but probably did not do well. Clinicals and Lors are good (honors and high pass), but I think my boards will preclude me from getting interviews. I know 25 may seem young, but I just spent the last four years of my life (as you all did) killing myself with the goal of em in mind. NOW WHAT? Suggestions on programs that might take a chance on me?

why not just apply to every program?

tm
 
why not just apply to every program?

tm

Agreed. I did poorly on step 1, and had so-so clinical grades. I applied to 35 places and still did not match. If I could do it over, I'd spend the extra money and apply to every single program in the country.
 
Agreed. I did poorly on step 1, and had so-so clinical grades. I applied to 35 places and still did not match. If I could do it over, I'd spend the extra money and apply to every single program in the country.

well, every one of them might be a stretch, i mean really i think past 50 the cost becomes waaaay more.
 
well, every one of them might be a stretch, i mean really i think past 50 the cost becomes waaaay more.

Depends on how badly you want to get into EM. Trust me, you do not want to be in the situation where you don't match, and the scramble spots all fill. Your options become very limited after that, and you may never get the chance to do EM.
 
Agreed. I did poorly on step 1, and had so-so clinical grades. I applied to 35 places and still did not match. If I could do it over, I'd spend the extra money and apply to every single program in the country.

so you don't like King/Drew? Looked pretty exciting to me w/ good training...(on "Life in the ER, anyway....")
 
Nothing wrong with the training (training is probably superior to some other programs). Just not my first choice to be.

FWIW scrambling into EM is much more complex and stressful than dropping the $2000 or so it would cost to apply to tons of places.
 
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FWIW scrambling into EM is much more complex and stressful than dropping the $2000 or so it would cost to apply to tons of places.

I agree. Even though I scrambled successfully, the emotional stress and uncertainty was exhausting. I'd pay $1 million to not have to go through that.
 
I agree. Even though I scrambled successfully, the emotional stress and uncertainty was exhausting. I'd pay $1 million to not have to go through that.

true, not knowing can really be tough.
 
well, every one of them might be a stretch, i mean really i think past 50 the cost becomes waaaay more.

I applied to 54 programs this year which was every program in an area of the country were we could afford to live with four kids and five dogs. There's no way we could afford to live in places like New York City or Los Angeles so I didn't even bother. Other than that criteria I was pretty open-minded. I went on every interview to which I was invited and ranked every program including the only one that I absolutely did not like (Hint, it's a land mammal, once almost extinct, now making a comeback. The indians hunted 'em. They used to shoot at them out of the windows of trains.) under the theory that if I matched at the bottom of my list I'd make the best of it, preferring to take the chance of suffering for three years to either remaining in a certain angst-ridden specialty or going back to engineering.

You never know. You might grow to like a program that made a bad impression on you. It sure beats scrambling. There were only a few spots for the scramble this time so in reality it sure beats sitting out a year.
 
I agree. Even though I scrambled successfully, the emotional stress and uncertainty was exhausting. I'd pay $1 million to not have to go through that.

Too right. I scrambled last year and it was one of the most distasteful episodes of my life, including that time with the Mexican bar-girl who may or may not have been the star of the Donkey show. Hey,it was dark, I was drunk...

But I digress...

Not to mention that I was unsuccesfull in the scramble and ended up at Duke Family Medicine to do a little something I like to call the worst ****ing year of my life.
 
...SO, you guys think I can still match if I apply to a lot of programs? I was thinking 40-seems like a lot, but is that enough?

After 30, each program is 25 bucks if I recall correctly. If you don't match simply because you didn't get enough interviews, you will feel like a total idiot if this is because you didn't apply to an extra 20 programs just to save a measly 500 bucks. 500 dollars in one hand; a year of your life, a year of lost income, and the sure knowledge that you'll spend more the next time around in the other. Does that put it in perspective?

I know the system is geared towards making you pretend that you have some noble and medically sound reason to pick programs where you want to interview but realistically, there are no bad EM programs. Shoot for the ones where you have a preference but prepare to settle if necessary. With a few exceptions, things like shift lengths, rotation schedules, and location are probably more important factors than prestige or other intangibles.
 
Listen to Panda Bear. His advice is sound. If you're in doubt about getting into a program in the match, rank more programs. Be prepared to move anywhere and everywhere. This is the most important decision in your life, and money/geography should not limit your options. In the end where you go doesn't matter, as you'll be certified in Emergency Medicine and can move to wherever you like.
 
Too right. I scrambled last year and it was one of the most distasteful episodes of my life, including that time with the Mexican bar-girl who may or may not have been the star of the Donkey show. Hey,it was dark, I was drunk...

But I digress...

Not to mention that I was unsuccesfull in the scramble and ended up at Duke Family Medicine to do a little something I like to call the worst ****ing year of my life.

Not to bring back bad old memories, but those calls must have sucked right? at least the last few months.
 
Listen to Panda Bear. His advice is sound. If you're in doubt about getting into a program in the match, rank more programs. Be prepared to move anywhere and everywhere. This is the most important decision in your life, and money/geography should not limit your options. In the end where you go doesn't matter, as you'll be certified in Emergency Medicine and can move to wherever you like.

I agree with all the above posters. Apply to a large number of programs. Spend as much money as you can to cast the net WIDE.


Wook
 
IMHO even if you do wind up scrambling there are worse things in life. I applied to 35 programs in 2005, invited to interview at 16 (couldn't do all interviews as many were on the same day or in the same week at opposite ends of the country), ranked 8 and scrambled. I was not willing to move to NY and the one Cali program with spots was reportedly being closed. Since I am interested in both emergency medicine and rural medicine I chose to attempt to scramble into Med-Peds. Best decision I ever made. Not only will I be able to work in a rural area I can also work in rural ERs as well. Don't give up and don't fret if you don't match. Things happen for a reason, even when we don't know what that reason is yet.
 
IMHO even if you do wind up scrambling there are worse things in life. I applied to 35 programs in 2005, invited to interview at 16 (couldn't do all interviews as many were on the same day or in the same week at opposite ends of the country), ranked 8 and scrambled. I was not willing to move to NY and the one Cali program with spots was reportedly being closed. Since I am interested in both emergency medicine and rural medicine I chose to attempt to scramble into Med-Peds. Best decision I ever made. Not only will I be able to work in a rural area I can also work in rural ERs as well. Don't give up and don't fret if you don't match. Things happen for a reason, even when we don't know what that reason is yet.

That's great that it worked out for you, but it does seem like failing to match in one specialty and scrambling into another would be a suboptimal situation for most people no?
 
That's great that it worked out for you, but it does seem like failing to match in one specialty and scrambling into another would be a suboptimal situation for most people no?

Agreed, it is one thing to apply to two specialties accepting placement in either one. It is entirely different to scramble into a totally different (don't tell me Med-Peds isn't totally different from EM!) specialty. Scramble day is insane enough without worrying about a new interest! I say if you want EM, apply as broadly as possible (ask these questions at your school too, like your dean or someone who has a bead on the pulse of the match, an EM advisor would be preferred) and shoot hard for it.
 
IMHO even if you do wind up scrambling there are worse things in life. I applied to 35 programs in 2005, invited to interview at 16 (couldn't do all interviews as many were on the same day or in the same week at opposite ends of the country), ranked 8 and scrambled. I was not willing to move to NY and the one Cali program with spots was reportedly being closed. Since I am interested in both emergency medicine and rural medicine I chose to attempt to scramble into Med-Peds. Best decision I ever made. Not only will I be able to work in a rural area I can also work in rural ERs as well. Don't give up and don't fret if you don't match. Things happen for a reason, even when we don't know what that reason is yet.

We are not being closed in Cali. That rumor persists every year, and there's no evidence to back it up. We have never been on probation by RRC, and the hospital just had a successful CMS inspection.
 
We are not being closed in Cali. That rumor persists every year, and there's no evidence to back it up. We have never been on probation by RRC, and the hospital just had a successful CMS inspection.

i think he/she was talking about ucsf....they are not doing well over there..
 
This thread should be a sticky link. I think us med students all worry about the "hypothetical mess"!!! :scared:
 
UCSF didn't have scramble spots last year. I didn't realize they were in trouble. What's going on with them?

haha I was just joking, I know bad joke, not much sleep the night before, please excuse it !
 
well...I'm going to apply to 55 programs-and 10 prelims; I'd like to, at the very least, get into a decent prelim program, but if I don't match in EM after 55 apps, then I probably won't be competitive enough to get a strong prelim program-see what I mean about being 25 and having career doors closed.....suggestions for programs interested in hard work, team player, good clinicals and not good test takers....I really LOVE em -
 
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