I am ranked last in my class

[Jeremy1928]

After I graduate next summer, I am considering applying to several AEGD/GPR programs, but I am sitting on a 2.5 GPA, ranked last in my class out of 100 students, and have not been involved in any extracurriculars. All the schools I have seen report stats in the neighborhood of 8-15 applicants for every person accepted, so I wanted to ask the group if you think it would even be worth applying???? Thanks a lot.

JG

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[sjdent]

....but you passed part 1, right?

Sorry, couldn't help it. We're all obsessed with the big test right now.

 

[Jeremy1928]

Yeah, got 81.

 

[critterbug]

You know what they call a dental student who graduates last in his/or her class don't you?
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A DENTIST!!!

 

[critterbug]

sorry, couldn't resist

 

[sjdent]

Good for you! I'm jealous. And scared. I'm near the bottom as well and am really pessimistic about passing boards. Any words of encouragement? How much did you study? Everyone says they feel like they failed coming out of taking them.

 

[c132]

Not to hack the thread but sjdent, what are you avg on the old exams?

 

[sjdent]

It varies - low 80's. Scoring the worst in bio/phys. Hard to tell on some tests b/c in the beginning of studying, I studied from old tests to get a feel for the test Q's and as a result, I only had early 1980's tests w/o the answers on them. So I've had to go through the tests going, "OK, I'd get that...No, I wouldn't get that!" I guess with the power of under-stress guessing, maybe I'd do better? Hope so!

But let me tell ya, I'm kicking ass on the early 80's tests! Man, some of those are easy! Do you guys think that taking these old tests is a pretty good indication? Hope they are. B/c I kind of expect to do worse on the real thing...don't know why, just the way it goes.

I'm so stressed, if you couldn't tell. It's really hard to believe that I'll pass this damn thing!!!

 

[Jeremy1928]

Sjdent,

If you are doing well on old exams, you will w/o a doubt do better on the real deal. Just imagine the added adrenaline that will be flowing through your veins, much like when you took the DAT. Even though you are ranked lower in the class, just bring to mind previous successes, ie DAT, the fact that you got into dental school to begin with, etc. It's a good thing you are fairly concerned; those that are too nonchalant end up retaking. However, don't get too bent out of shape. The worst that can happen is to retake it. Not that this will happen, but by taking it every 6 mos, one can take the NBDE I 4 times before graduating. I know you'll pass; take care, and let us know how things go.

JG

 

[Bickle]

Sjdent,

If you are doing well on old exams, you will w/o a doubt do better on the real deal. Just imagine the added adrenaline that will be flowing through your veins, much like when you took the DAT. Even though you are ranked lower in the class, just bring to mind previous successes, ie DAT, the fact that you got into dental school to begin with, etc. It's a good thing you are fairly concerned; those that are too nonchalant end up retaking. However, don't get too bent out of shape. The worst that can happen is to retake it. Not that this will happen, but by taking it every 6 mos, one can take the NBDE I 4 times before graduating. I know you'll pass; take care, and let us know how things go.

JG

I thought you need to pass part 1 before you enter your 3rd year???

 

[ItsGavinC]

I thought you need to pass part 1 before you enter your 3rd year???

Not at every school (but certainly at most). But hey, I haven't even started my second year yet, so I could take it 3 times prior to third year.

 

[sjdent]

jeremy, were you scoring ok on practice tests before you went in to take part 1? Did you think that old tests were a pretty good indicator of your performance? It's hard to think that I'll do well when I have a low GPA but everyone always says those that fail are the ones that don't study. True?

Also, here is the big question. When you came out of the test, did you feel like you'd failed it? Or did you feel OK abou your performance.

And thanks for the encouragement...keep it coming!

 

[ItsGavinC]

After I graduate next summer, I am considering applying to several AEGD/GPR programs, but I am sitting on a 2.5 GPA, ranked last in my class out of 100 students, and have not been involved in any extracurriculars. All the schools I have seen report stats in the neighborhood of 8-15 applicants for every person accepted, so I wanted to ask the group if you think it would even be worth applying???? Thanks a lot.

JG

From my limited perspective I have good news and bad news.

First the good: you CAN match with an AEGD/GPR.

Now the bad: it may not be one that is high on your list, or one that is high on many other students' list.

If I remember the stats right, it seemed like after Match day this year there were still 200+ open spots between GPR/AEGD programs. That tells me that there are probably quite a few programs out there that students aren't really interested in.

Now, you need to find those programs and find out WHY students aren't interested in them. If they provide relatively crappy training, then avoid them. But if they provide adequate training and are only in crappy parts of the country, then those just might be the ones you want to apply to.

Play it like the dental school game. Apply to 5 or 6 that you think you can get into, 2 you know you will match with (check their stats), and 2 that would be a long-shot.

Good luck!

 

[sjdent]

Also, just have to add: how can I have studied so much and still feel like I know NOTHING!!

It's like 5 days till the test and I'm forgetting stuff I learned like crazy. I can't ever remember everything....it's making me insane. I'm not going to remember anything for the test!!

 

[Jeremy1928]

Thanks, Gavin. How does one access info on which spots were left open after "match day" Also, how would one investigate a particular program other than reading their brochure? A few of the programs I called were guarded against releasing contact info of their residents unless I submitted my application in first.......

 

[Jeremy1928]

Sjdent,

If you are blanking out for the board, maybe that's a sign you need to:

1) Take a break-go catch Spiderman II, go for a jog, etc.

2) Stay away from the itty bitty details. That's one mistake I made. I spent too much time studying the Kaplan manual, which is packed with gunner-like minutia. If you have the decks, stick to them, and skip the extra minutia that they throw in towards the bottom of the back side of the card. Fly through those bad boys twice, and you'll have it made. There's only so much you can ask about the Kreb's cycle.

So how did I feel walking out of the exam? Like everyone else, that I bombed it. I think that's because if it were a run of the mill dental exam, I would have failed it. I can't recall a dental school exam with such a generous curve. Again, good luck.

 

[Jeremy1928]

Oh, and by the way, the NBDE is a separate deal run by the ADA, which means the exam is not so much tied in with the dental school as it it is with the ADA itself. There's NO WAY a school would hold you back from the clinic for 6-12 mos. because you couldn't recall the last step in the Urea cycle. I guarantee none of you can name a single person in your class who had to wait a yr due to their failing...(My intent in this post is not to lessen the significance of the exam, but to make the miniscule possibility of failing more bearable).

 

[sjdent]

Jeremy,

Yeah, I agree. I have spent A LOT of time w/ Kaplan. Hard to put those books down.....Do you think that spending the rest of the time w/ old tests is the best plan from here on out? I feel like even though there's so much I don't know....it's probably too late at this point and probably just should go through tests to get the repeated Q's since I really can't go through a frickin' review book again!!

I don't know, what did you do? Were old tests REALLY that helpful?

 

[sjdent]

AND the big question.........how in the hell did you function after the test? Because I'm pretty darn sure I'll feel like i failed it! Was that month hell or did you just get to a point where you just got over it.

 

[ItsGavinC]

I don't know, what did you do? Were old tests REALLY that helpful?

3 things.

1) You can study old tests to learn information. Go through each question and verball state why the wrong answers are incorrect and why the correct one is the one to go with. If you miss questions, then check the Kaplan explanations if you have them. See what their reasoning is, and identify why your logic process is different than theirs. I did that and it has helped TONS in the way I think.

2) After going through each exam twice, you should have the answers to 90% of the questions memorized. This doesn't help from a learning standpoint that much, but sure helps if and when there are repeats on the exam.

3) I just started the Kaplan book this evening and am now in the process of memorizing a lot of that little minutia as well as getting a different perspective on the concepts I think I already know. I didn't use the Kaplan book at all in the beginning. This strategy seemed to work for me. That book is thick and seems to easily depress people. The key is to knowing that you don't need to know a lot of the crap they put in that book. I'd advise current dental students to save the Kaplan book to the end (international dentists/those away from school for a while might be a different story).

 

[sjdent]

well, i have been going through the old tests very casually to get an idea what's on the tests. just going through them again.....man, there's some random crap on some of the tests!!

now i'm just going through, not really to LEARN (too late!) but to make sure I can recall the important details and memorize Q's.

 

[ItsGavinC]

.....man, there's some random crap on some of the tests!!

You're right, there is. But based on the scaled scores vs. raw scores, I'd say the exam difficulty is pretty logical. I mean, getting 50% correct allows you to pass, 66% correct is the average, and anything about 70% gets you a great score.

It seems that out of 100 questions they have:

40 questions that are gimme questions. You should know these if you attend dental school and have a pulse.

40 "thinking" questions. They aren't hard, but you have to tie together some information that you've learned from the Decks.

15 "difficult" questions. These contain random stuff and minor details that are quite useless trivia.

5 "tricky" questions. The questions are easy but require you to read the questions carefully and pay attention to the phrasing or what the question is really asking for.

 

[sjdent]

Gavin, my original plan was to just keep studying decks/review books and glance over tests 1-2 days before. I'm thinking about mostly studying from old tests now the rest of the time and know those concepts. It's one or the other!!

 

[Dentoman]

I remember when I was going through the old tests I tried to figure out how many questions were "repeats" from previous years and I think the number was close to 15 %. Not much but it helps.
I think the boards also measure in general the CONCEPTS you learnt not just the details you memorized(although there's alot of this too).
Also one more thing, if during the exam you feel there's alot of stuff you dont really know the answer to, don't panic...chances are most other students feel that way , and remember this you are always gonna get a higher score than you think is possible just because of the curving they do.

 

[sjdent]

A higher score on the real thing??

I don't know, now that I'm solely going through old tests, I am panicking big-time. It's going to be really hard for me to go through the real test and not panic when I don't know the answer. I guess I have like NO confidence in my part 1 test-taking abilities. I've gone through the old tests all along and now I don't know how to gauge myself on what I really know vs. what I just remember, ya know?

 

[sjdent]

Gavin, I'd say more like 30 gimme questions.

 

[ItsGavinC]

I'll buy that.

And like Dentoman said, if you are feeling frustrated than chances are that nearly everybody else is, which is okay thanks to the mean curve they'll dish out.

That's always been my philosophy with this beast. I'll feel better walking out if it's an easy test, but my scores will be better if I think it was a hard test when I walk out.

 

[groundhog]

When taking a multple choice test relating to work you will do..don't think too much. When doing the actual work...think it through completely.

 

[Blackstars]

Gavin, O often wonder if you do anything else besides studying and helping people out on SDN. spend more time with your cute kids buddy

 

[ItsGavinC]

spend more time with your cute kids buddy

Wife and kids have been in Utah for a week and will be there for another 10 days still.