I decided, I want to be a cardiologist... now what?

[mammeor]

As a nontraditional second year med student, I know it's pretty early to have a definite decision, however I would like to know how to better concentrate my studies, clinicals and research toward an application that would make me competitive for a future cardio fellowship.

Any experiences, scores, LORs, research, ideas will be greatly appreciated.

Thank you

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[armybound]

Like any other specialty, do the best you possibly can, make connections, do research, and hope for the best.

 

[THH]

As a nontraditional second year med student, I know it's pretty early to have a definite decision, however I would like to know how to better concentrate my studies, clinicals and research toward an application that would make me competitive for a future cardio fellowship.

Any experiences, scores, LORs, research, ideas will be greatly appreciated.

Thank you

Fellowship is a long way down the road still. For now, your focus should be getting into a strong university based academic IM program.

 

[KinasePro]

Go lurk around the internal medicine forums... there are some pretty solid contributors over there dishing out advice to med students/ residents/ fellows. Cardio, pulm/cc, and heme/onc are well-represented.

 

[thepoopologist]

3. Profit!

 

[golgiapparatus88]

Quick question. When you plan on going into cardiology, do you match into a regular IM residency or one of those transitional IM program? I've always been confused about this.

 

[Longshanks]

Quick question. When you plan on going into cardiology, do you match into a regular IM residency or one of those transitional IM program? I've always been confused about this.

A full IM residency. Cardiology is a fellowship after residency. Transitional years are programs set up for those going into residency programs that require an "Intern" year before entering the categorical residency, such as derm, anesthesiology, etc.

 

[Etorphine]

Is it just me, or is gunning for cards fraught with more anxiety than other comparable top specialties like optho or ENT?

The reason being that you can match directly into optho or ENT, and KNOW 100% what you're going to be doing as a late MS4, while if you have your heart set on cards, you're still gunning away into your full IM residency. People that may have scrambled and been "forced" into a full IM program have a rebuttal, and you're competing with these individuals.

How false/true is this?

 

[RestoreSight]

Is it just me, or is gunning for cards fraught with more anxiety than other comparable top specialties like optho or ENT?

The reason being that you can match directly into optho or ENT, and KNOW 100% what you're going to be doing as a late MS4, while if you have your heart set on cards, you're still gunning away into your full IM residency. People that may have scrambled and been "forced" into a full IM program have a rebuttal, and you're competing with these individuals.

How false/true is this?

Kinda true I guess. Cards/GI are the most competitive fellowships post IM residency, but ophtho and ENT both have competitive fellowships (retina, cornea, plastics, etc) too so the game doesn't end with matching 4th year.

Cards is cool, but the reimbursement has steadily declined for years. Statins revolutionized the management of thrombotic disease and PCI is at an all time low. Hospitals are cutthroat in scooping up any remaining procedures, especially in saturated areas like Boston/NY. Still a cool field, but not what it once was.

 

[Law2Doc]

Quick question. When you plan on going into cardiology, do you match into a regular IM residency or one of those transitional IM program? I've always been confused about this.

You want categorical IM. Preferably at an academic center. Do a fourth year elective in cards. Try to find a cardiologist who does research and see if you can help and get onto a paper. If you have free time, shadow a bit, particularly the procedural stuff like caths. You'll get more insight and more importantly make some contacts. You don't apply for fellowships until you are already in residency.

 

[duckie99]

As a nontraditional second year med student, I know it's pretty early to have a definite decision, however I would like to know how to better concentrate my studies, clinicals and research toward an application that would make me competitive for a future cardio fellowship.

Any experiences, scores, LORs, research, ideas will be greatly appreciated.

Thank you

concentrate your studies and clinicals? uhhh you gotta study all the same stuff as every other med student and do the same clinical rotations. Only difference is you will prob do a cards elective.

It always baffles me to see younger med students, or in your case a lower class year, KNOW they want to do a fellowship before even doing one single clinical rotation. Most residents don't know what fellowship they want to do...

However to answer your question if you are interested in a particular fellowship field the only thing that can really separate you at the med student level is research, since that will be the only thing any fellowship will care about by the time you apply in 5-6 years...

 

[ArcGurren]

You haven't done any rotations in any field yet and you "know" you want to do cards? Jumping the gun a bit?

 

[rocketbooster]

Kinda true I guess. Cards/GI are the most competitive fellowships post IM residency, but ophtho and ENT both have competitive fellowships (retina, cornea, plastics, etc) too so the game doesn't end with matching 4th year.

Cards is cool, but the reimbursement has steadily declined for years. Statins revolutionized the management of thrombotic disease and PCI is at an all time low. Hospitals are cutthroat in scooping up any remaining procedures, especially in saturated areas like Boston/NY. Still a cool field, but not what it once was.

Wrong. This couldn't be any more wrong. Every field has gone down since the 90s in terms of reimbursement. Statins revolutionized thrombotic disease? Are you implying this has caused the number of caths to go down?

Cardiology and ortho make the most money of any field. Heart disease is the leading cause death in the country. Obesity is on the incline, not decline. More and more heart disease intervention is being done with stents rather than open heart surgery. Cardiology has never been better in terms of # of procedures. It's cardiothoracic surgery that is suffering. There are 4 jobs available for every new cardiologist looking for a job. There is 1 job available for 4 new cardiothoracic surgeons. So...what are you smoking bro??

My source? A family full of cardiologists.

 

[ArcGurren]

Wrong. This couldn't be any more wrong. Every field has gone down since the 90s in terms of reimbursement. Statins revolutionized thrombotic disease? Are you implying this has caused the number of caths to go down?

Cardiology and ortho make the most money of any field. Heart disease is the leading cause death in the country. Obesity is on the incline, not decline. More and more heart disease intervention is being done with stents rather than open heart surgery. Cardiology has never been better in terms of # of procedures. It's cardiothoracic surgery that is suffering. There are 4 jobs available for every new cardiologist looking for a job. There is 1 job available for 4 new cardiothoracic surgeons. So...what are you smoking bro??

My source? A family full of cardiologists.

Not to mention interventional cards and EP both have a lot of new procedures being developed all the time

 

[KinasePro]

There are 4 jobs available for every new cardiologist looking for a job.

This isn't true, cardiology is pretty saturated at the moment. I'm sure things will change, but right now graduating fellows aren't finding great options, especially on the coasts. Check out the IM forums for more on this issue.

 

[rocketbooster]

This isn't true, cardiology is pretty saturated at the moment. I'm sure things will change, but right now graduating fellows aren't finding great options, especially on the coasts. Check out the IM forums for more on this issue.

Did I say 4 jobs for every graduating fellow on the coasts? No. I did not give a geographical region within the US. Ppl on SDN have a heavy bias toward the coasts and use that to say the entire job market is saturated. You'll see the samething if you go to the IM forums. Find some national data and then we'll talk.

 

[KinasePro]

Did I say 4 jobs for every graduating fellow on the coasts? No. I did not give a geographical region within the US. Ppl on SDN have a heavy bias toward the coasts and use that to say the entire job market is saturated. You'll see the samething if you go to the IM forums. Find some national data and then we'll talk.

You're the one over-selling the specialty, you give us the national data. I'm not going to waste calories finding the data to back up your argument.

Graduating fellows complaining on public forums about having to take jobs in nebraska is good enough evidence for me that cardiology isn't the promised land you describe.

 

[rocketbooster]

You're the one over-selling the specialty, you give us the national data. I'm not going to waste calories finding the data to back up your argument.

Graduating fellows complaining on public forums about having to take jobs in nebraska is good enough evidence for me that cardiology isn't the promised land you describe.

Again, what you are describing is west/east coast bias. I already provided data...data that is not biased towards the coasts. If you are trying to claim I'm wrong, then you need to provide statistical evidence, not anecdotal "evidence" from a public forum compromised mainly of ppl from the coasts. The burden of proof is on you, broski

 

[KinasePro]

Again, what you are describing is west/east coast bias. I already provided data...data that is not biased towards the coasts. If you are trying to claim I'm wrong, then you need to provide statistical evidence, not anecdotal "evidence" from a public forum compromised mainly of ppl from the coasts. The burden of proof is on you, broski

Where is the data you provided? I don't see any in this thread, just your word against SDN testomony/anecdotes.

 

[ineed2stpsmurfn]

eh.. rocketbooster is right. I have noticed on sdn there's a strong bias towards living on the east or west coast, but that isn't all there is and just because you don't live in Boston or New York City doesn't mean your living in Bumfuk-Nowhere, USA.

fwiw, the only thing better than cards atm imho would be the spine docs or high volume optho.. kind of amazing what those guys can pull in. But you won't be too poor either as you drive around in that black ferrari on your lowly inv cards salary

 

[rocketbooster]

Where is the data you provided? I don't see any in this thread, just your word against SDN testomony/anecdotes.

That there are 1/4 jobs for graduating cardio fellows. Stats = numbers. 1/4 are numbers. Google the definition of "statistic" if you still don't get it.

eh.. rocketbooster is right. I have noticed on sdn there's a strong bias towards living on the east or west coast, but that isn't all there is and just because you don't live in Boston or New York City doesn't mean your living in Bumfuk-Nowhere, USA.

fwiw, the only thing better than cards atm imho would be the spine docs or high volume optho.. kind of amazing what those guys can pull in. But you won't be too poor either as you drive around in that black ferrari on your lowly inv cards salary

Yup. I think ortho is up there, too? It's interesting you mention high volume ophtho because all the ophtho forum talks about is how the ophtho market and income are terrible now haha. But again, they are all referring to the coasts. I wonder how many high volume ophthos there are.

Btw, for random readers, the suburban cities not on the coasts are exactly the same as the ones on the coasts. Overall, they have all the same restaurants, stores, chains, etc. I've been to all parts of the country, which I'm sure many of you have also done but conveniently skipped the Midwest haha. The suburban cities are all the same everywhere in this country. As for wanting to live directly in a huge city once you're 30+ and ready to have a family, that completely baffles me. You'll most likely move to or live in a suburb of one of those major cities. And those suburbs are identical to the ones in the Midwest. You can argue that at least you still have a big city within an hour drive, but by 30+ age I doubt you'll care about going out to the bars and clubs anymore anyway.

 

[KinasePro]

That there are 1/4 jobs for graduating cardio fellows. Stats = numbers. 1/4 are numbers. Google the definition of "statistic" if you still don't get it.

What's your source and where's the data? Your typing numbers into SDN is not legitimate statistics or data.

 

[rocketbooster]

What's your source and where's the data? Your typing numbers into SDN is not legitimate statistics or data.

Source = cardiologists recruiting new graduating fellows.

And you provided nothing whatsoever. Anyways, done arguing with the ignorant.

 

[KinasePro]

Source = cardiologists recruiting new graduating fellows.

And you provided nothing whatsoever. Anyways, done arguing with the ignorant.

My only source is the IM forums, where fellows are complaining. You're making big claims that are directly opposite to what's on those forums, and you can't back up a word of it. Readers can pick for themselves who to believe, and there's a lot of discussion of these topics elsewhere on this site.

I'm doubly suspicious of posters like you that resort to ad hominem attacks and are clearly wearing rosy red glasses.

 

[rocketbooster]

My only source is the IM forums, where fellows are complaining. You're making big claims that are directly opposite to what's on those forums, and you can't back up a word of it. Readers can pick for themselves who to believe, and there's a lot of discussion of these topics elsewhere on this site.

It's already been stated by me and confirmed by another poster that the IM forums have a heavy bias towards the coasts. Having to choose a job in Nebraska doesn't mean there are not 4 jobs available nationally to every graduating cardio fellow. The ppl complaining on the forums are ones who want a certain salary while living in a big city on the coast. This has been explained to you many times by not only me. If you don't understand that and continue to ignore it like you have been in all your replies, then that makes you ignorant. The end, for real this time haha.

 

[KinasePro]

The ppl complaining on the forums are ones who want a certain salary while living in a big city on the coast. This has been explained to you many times by not only me. If you don't understand that and continue to ignore it like you have been in all your replies, then that makes you ignorant. The end, for real this time haha.

These sweeping generalizations are no better than the "statistics" you posted earlier without legitimate sources or supporting data. What's more, graduating fellows are far more reliable than the pre-clinical students in this thread (myself included).

Finally, my disagreeing with you does not mean I'm ignorant, it means that I find your arguments underwhelming compared to discussions elsewhere on this site. The juvenile snarkiness and name-calling only further detract from your credibility.

 

[mammeor]

You haven't done any rotations in any field yet and you "know" you want to do cards? Jumping the gun a bit?

Like I said, Im a non traditional student, aka old, so I have decided what I wanted to do a long time ago and just had the chance of following up on my goals. Of course, plans may always change, however it seems to be reasonable to focus my studies on an area of interest rather than absorbing and liking everything, and then scrambling for a decision.

Thank you all for your replies, much appreciated.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[RestoreSight]

Wrong. This couldn't be any more wrong. Every field has gone down since the 90s in terms of reimbursement. Statins revolutionized thrombotic disease? Are you implying this has caused the number of caths to go down?

Cardiology and ortho make the most money of any field. Heart disease is the leading cause death in the country. Obesity is on the incline, not decline. More and more heart disease intervention is being done with stents rather than open heart surgery. Cardiology has never been better in terms of # of procedures. It's cardiothoracic surgery that is suffering. There are 4 jobs available for every new cardiologist looking for a job. There is 1 job available for 4 new cardiothoracic surgeons. So...what are you smoking bro??

My source? A family full of cardiologists.

I love how people with family members in a field think they have God level understanding of a field's demographics and future trends, even though your "source" is essentially equivalent to a few biased case reports, and for all I know bad cardiologists to begin with. There are not 4 jobs available for every new cardiologist. This is entirely location dependent. Cardiology is NOT making the most money of any field and YES the number of PCIs has gone down significantly. Need proof?

How about a real source? Check Pubmed -
Trends in coronary revascularization in the United States from 2001 to 2009: recent declines in percutaneous coronary intervention volumes.

Some advice - before you post check your facts first.

 

[rocketbooster]

I love how people with family members in a field think they have God level understanding of a field's demographics and future trends, even though your "source" is essentially equivalent to a few biased case reports, and for all I know bad cardiologists to begin with. There are not 4 jobs available for every new cardiologist. This is entirely location dependent. Cardiology is NOT making the most money of any field and YES the number of PCIs has gone down significantly. Need proof?

How about a real source? Check Pubmed -
Trends in coronary revascularization in the United States from 2001 to 2009: recent declines in percutaneous coronary intervention volumes.

Some advice - before you post check your facts first.

What field hasn't gone down in the last decade? You have to compare it to other fields. And even though it's not as amazing as in the 90s, it still is one of the highest paid specialties. Ortho and cardio are at the very top. Look it up. I assure you it's not ophtho. Ophtho is probably one of the fields that has gone down the most in the last 10 years. I think someone is just trying to devalue other fields since his own field has gone way downhill in salary over the last decade. I've been on the ophtho forum a lot, and basically everyone says ophtho doesn't make much more than primary care nowadays. I still think it's a great field nonetheless, but not so much the lifestyle specialty it used to be. Still great hours (if you want), but now that easier schedule is reflected more in the salary than before.

 

[badasshairday]

Dude all he said was that the number of cardiac caths has gone down. You were wrong, you said that the total number of cardiac caths have increased. It is a combination of better medical management (decreasing the need for initial intervention), drug eluting stents (decrease need for reintervention), and the COURAGE trial.

Cardiology is still an awesome field. But he called your bluff.

 

[rocketbooster]

I agree rocketbooster. Some ppl just like to argue, don't worry about it.

Thanks brah.

 

[alecseriously]

Question: can networking help you get a residency? Or is it more objective...

 

[duckie99]

Like I said, Im a non traditional student, aka old, so I have decided what I wanted to do a long time ago and just had the chance of following up on my goals. Of course, plans may always change, however it seems to be reasonable to focus my studies on an area of interest rather than absorbing and liking everything, and then scrambling for a decision.

the point is you cannot sit around and "focus" your studies. You HAVE to do well in medical school including all core 3rd year rotations. You HAVE to get a decent step 1 and step 2 to go to a decent program. Then you HAVE to do 3 years of general internal medicine residency all the while performing very well. You MUST do all those things BEFORE you ever get the chance to actually "focus" your studies on cardiology...

look, if you think you want to do cards, great. Just get involved with some research and study hard for all of med school. If you come out with poor board scores or get really poor 3rd year grades your chances of ever getting cards decrease significantly.