I don't want to be a DO, but I'm struggling

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I have wanted to be a doctor my whole life, but I've seriously been getting advised to apply to DO schools. I know DOs are doctors, but I know that people look down on DOs and I don't want to know that for the rest of my life, I couldn't become an MD because my grades weren't up to par and now I'm viewed as a second tier doctor. I would rather not become a doctor than become a DO because of the title. I don't care about the money. Now, I never wanted to be a pharmacist, but I'm seriously considering pharmacy school because it seems safe. I just feel weird about it because all my energy has been in wanting to be a doctor. Am I dumb for thinking this way?

I know there's a lot of MD vs DO bull****, but idk. I don't really read that stuff. Don't argue on my thread.
 
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I have wanted to be a doctor my whole life, but I've seriously been getting advised to apply to DO schools. I know DOs are doctors, but I know that people look down on DOs and I don't want to know that for the rest of my life, I couldn't become an MD because my grades weren't up to par and now I'm viewed as a second tier doctor. I would rather not become a doctor than become a DO because of the title. I don't care about the money. Now, I never wanted to be a pharmacist, but I'm seriously considering pharmacy school because it seems safe. I just feel weird about it because all my energy has been in wanting to be a doctor. Am I dumb for thinking this way?

I know there's a lot of MD vs DO bull****, but idk. I don't really read that stuff. Don't argue on my thread.
yes
 

eljefemdfuturo

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If title is the main motivator for you going to medical school, then you shouldn't go to medical school. I wouldn't call you dumb, just maybe misguided in your approach to medicine. DO's are hardly looked down on in the medical field, and anyone who does look down on them probably aren't worth associating with anyways. I don't know much about your situation, but if you're thinking you'd rather not be a doctor than be a DO, then I don't think you have a genuine passion for medicine.
 

Lannister

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Umm no, I'm still trying to apply to MD and DO schools, but now I'm going to take the PCAT. I'm just asking if how I'm thinking is dumb.
Why are you still applying DO if you'd rather not be a doctor than be a DO? That makes absolutely zero sense. And yes, the way you're thinking is dumb.
 

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From what I understand, you will mostly be judged on how you yourself perform as a doctor both by patients and colleagues alike. That being said, patients have their own personal preferences in regards to choosing DO and MD physicians and I've seen many patients who prefer DOs over MDs, if they are even aware of what the difference is. I personally don't see a major difference in approach (aside from maybe possibly utilizing OMM), as all physicians can be patient oriented, value holism, and place an emphasis on preventative care.

The fields are becoming increasingly hard to distinguish, with many of our future physicians becoming DOs. If you want to become a physician, do it. If you want to become a pharmacist, pursue that. I wouldn't just go into pharmacy because you feel you can't be an MD. I suggest reading Norman Gevitz's The DOs Osteopathic Medicine in America to become better educated in the history and evolution of a field you may surprisingly find interest in.
 
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I have wanted to be a doctor my whole life, but I've seriously been getting advised to apply to DO schools. I know DOs are doctors, but I know that people look down on DOs and I don't want to know that for the rest of my life, I couldn't become an MD because my grades weren't up to par and now I'm viewed as a second tier doctor. I would rather not become a doctor than become a DO because of the title. I don't care about the money. Now, I never wanted to be a pharmacist, but I'm seriously considering pharmacy school because it seems safe. I just feel weird about it because all my energy has been in wanting to be a doctor. Am I dumb for thinking this way?

I know there's a lot of MD vs DO bull****, but idk. I don't really read that stuff. Don't argue on my thread.
The medical field has lost nothing of value.
 

workaholic181

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Sounds like you don't really have a good perception of healthcare or on what you want to do with your life. Not abnormal for a 20 something, but please dont cast dispersions on tens of thousands of physicians by stating they're "looked down on." Not that they'd care, I'm just saying from a respect stand point your stance is pretty ridiculous.
 

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I have wanted to be a doctor my whole life, but I've seriously been getting advised to apply to DO schools. I know DOs are doctors, but I know that people look down on DOs and I don't want to know that for the rest of my life, I couldn't become an MD because my grades weren't up to par and now I'm viewed as a second tier doctor. I would rather not become a doctor than become a DO because of the title. I don't care about the money. Now, I never wanted to be a pharmacist, but I'm seriously considering pharmacy school because it seems safe. I just feel weird about it because all my energy has been in wanting to be a doctor. Am I dumb for thinking this way?

I know there's a lot of MD vs DO bull****, but idk. I don't really read that stuff. Don't argue on my thread.


@Goro is not pleased. And I agree with @ThoracicGuy that this post isn't worth the usual bruh meme.
 
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I have wanted to be a doctor my whole life, but I've seriously been getting advised to apply to DO schools. I know DOs are doctors, but I know that people look down on DOs and I don't want to know that for the rest of my life, I couldn't become an MD because my grades weren't up to par and now I'm viewed as a second tier doctor. I would rather not become a doctor than become a DO because of the title.
Am I dumb for thinking this way?.
Yes.
/thread.

0/10 trolling effort, BTW.
 

DPTinthemaking15

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I have wanted to be a doctor my whole life, but I've seriously been getting advised to apply to DO schools. I know DOs are doctors, but I know that people look down on DOs and I don't want to know that for the rest of my life, I couldn't become an MD because my grades weren't up to par and now I'm viewed as a second tier doctor. I would rather not become a doctor than become a DO because of the title. I don't care about the money. Now, I never wanted to be a pharmacist, but I'm seriously considering pharmacy school because it seems safe. I just feel weird about it because all my energy has been in wanting to be a doctor. Am I dumb for thinking this way?

I know there's a lot of MD vs DO bull****, but idk. I don't really read that stuff. Don't argue on my thread.
Let me paint a picture for you... No matter where you go with your DO title, most people don't know/don't care about the difference. A local Orthopod is a DO and I was talking with a friend that works alongside him (who is a nurse). I asked her what she thought of him and she said "He is an amazing surgeon and we are blessed to have him at our hospital." I proceeded to ask what she thought about him being a DO. This is the response I received "He is a DO? I never knew. Oh well... He is still good."

A year ago I didn't know the difference between a DO vs. MD and I am assuming the general population thinks the same way. At the end of the day, you're the only person that really cares. Now, there are probably *some* people that act otherwise, but like an above poster said, they are not worth associating with.

If you want to go the PharmD route, go ahead and do it. Be warned, you will always have that feeling of "what if." My friend just finished up with Pharmacy school and currently applied to a few DO schools and is kicking himself for going to Pharmacy school to begin with.

Anyways, good luck with the decision you make. It can be a costly one.

Edit: When you feed the troll, but you have nothing better to do with your day... lol
 
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@guiltysadtrash The most well compensated and in demand employment market for pharmacists is going to be retail. In between telling customers where the diapers are, getting yelled at by patients who inform you their outdated insurance should still cover their benzos, and dealing with short staff because you work at a secondary site store that doesn't sell enough merchandise to hire you another pair of hands you are going to be counting narcs, expected to do inventory, still have a call list the size of Santa's Christmas list about insurance companies/doctor's offices/patients you need to call regarding rejections/prior authorization/update on where you were unable to get regarding the status of their medication.

The burn and churn is so high that your local CVS, Walgreens, and RiteAid will likely not have the same pharmacist by next year. The ones who actually know what they are doing in primary store sites will get promoted to fill in compliance positions when those open up. There are people who are lured into working retail sites with the promise of compliance positions if they are able to succeed, with the certainty that they will fail.
 
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CloverBale

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The only people who care about this DO/MD stuff is the people on SDN. Go ask any real physician what they think about. NOBODY CARES. Your patients won't care. Other physicians won't care. Nurses won't care. Your family won't care. I'm sure you've been to several DO doctors during your lifetime and didn't even know it.
 

ciestar

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Well, i am looking down on you for thinking this way in the first place.

Btw, pharmacy is no safety career. Unless you love retail and slowly falling wages, then be my guest. Work at a CVS for three years and then tell me how much you want to be a pharmacist.
 
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Thanks to those who seriously replied. This forum is so annoying.
 

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I have wanted to be a doctor my whole life, but I've seriously been getting advised to apply to DO schools. I know DOs are doctors, but I know that people look down on DOs and I don't want to know that for the rest of my life, I couldn't become an MD because my grades weren't up to par and now I'm viewed as a second tier doctor. I would rather not become a doctor than become a DO because of the title. I don't care about the money. Now, I never wanted to be a pharmacist, but I'm seriously considering pharmacy school because it seems safe. I just feel weird about it because all my energy has been in wanting to be a doctor. Am I dumb for thinking this way?

I know there's a lot of MD vs DO bull****, but idk. I don't really read that stuff. Don't argue on my thread.
Bye Felicia.

There are a couple of pretty good reasons to avoid DO. If you intend to practice abroad or have your heart set on a particularly DO-unfriendly specialty are a few of them.

One that is a very bad reason to avoid DO is what you've just described.

Do it. Go to pharmacy school. Somebody who actually wants the DO spot can have it now.
 

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So pre-MD isn't working out, you aren't interested in being a DO and you think that training to be a PharmD is a safe choice (safe because it is attainable and not extremely competitive to get in??). Go for it. Sounds like a good plan for you.
 
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This is illogical thinking.

It looks like the things that matter to you (based on your original post) are

A) being a doctor
B) not being a pharmacist
C) "prestige"

Being an MD would get you A and B
Being a DO would get you A and B
Being a pharmacist would get you none of these
Not being a doctor or a pharmacist could get you maybe C

Real talk, being a DO is a hell of a lot "safer" than being a pharmacist, especially if you want to practice medicine.
 

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This is illogical thinking.

It looks like the things that matter to you (based on your original post) are

A) being a doctor
B) not being a pharmacist
C) "prestige"

Being an MD would get you A and B
Being a DO would get you A and B
Being a pharmacist would get you none of these
Not being a doctor or a pharmacist could get you maybe C

Real talk, being a DO is a hell of a lot "safer" than being a pharmacist, especially if you want to practice medicine.
Umm no... I'm not saying DOs are worse or whatever but the reality is that it IS harder to match as a DO. If you look at any specialty it is very clear. Someone earlier in this thread mentioned an orthopod DO and guess what - it was much harder for him to match than the MD one step above him on the match list. Just sayin


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Umm no... I'm not saying DOs are worse or whatever but the reality is that it IS harder to match as a DO. If you look at any specialty it is very clear. Someone earlier in this thread mentioned an orthopod DO and guess what - it was much harder for him to match than the MD one step above him on the match list. Just sayin
1. OP said nothing about becoming an orthopod. I don't know how that relates to anything that I'm saying
2. Match what. Match orthopedic surgery or match into a residency that will allow them to become a licensed, board certified doctor, which is what OP said in their post. If you mean match at all, then no, both MDs and DOs have essentially identical match rates. If you mean match into an ACGME residency, then MDs have an advantage vs. DOs (MD 89%, DO: 82%), but most of the DOs who do not match ACGME will match AOA. If you mean match into more competitive specialties or more competitive programs within less competitive specialties, then yeah, MD will have an advantage over DO. Notice that nowhere in my post did I say anything contrary to this.
3. My post was referring to OP's statements that he has "wanted to be a doctor my whole life" and "I never wanted to be a pharmacist". Becoming a DO will fulfill both of these criteria. Becoming a pharmacist is necessarily the only way he can fulfill neither.

Just sayin

Sources:
Charting Outcomes (Osteopathic) 2016 (Page 3, Table 1)
Charting Outcomes 2016 (Page 6, Table 2)
 

speedwalker

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What happens when you get rejected from pharmacy school? Which ship is next to jump onto
 
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Hkhan

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1. OP said nothing about becoming an orthopod. I don't know how that relates to anything that I'm saying
2. Match what. Match orthopedic surgery or match into a residency that will allow them to become a licensed, board certified doctor, which is what OP said in their post. If you mean match at all, then no, both MDs and DOs have essentially identical match rates. If you mean match into an ACGME residency, then MDs have an advantage vs. DOs (MD 89%, DO: 82%), but most of the DOs who do not match ACGME will match AOA. If you mean match into more competitive specialties or more competitive programs within less competitive specialties, then yeah, MD will have an advantage over DO. Notice that nowhere in my postid I say anything contrary to this.
3. My post was referring to OP's statements that he has "wanted to be a doctor my whole life" and "I never wanted to be a pharmacist". Becoming a DO will fulfill both of these criteria. Becoming a pharmacist is necessarily the only way he can fulfill neither.

Just sayin

Sources:
Charting Outcomes (Osteopathic) 2016 (Page 3, Table 1)
Charting Outcomes 2016 (Page 6, Table 2)
Wow... I'm not sure how my post could have been so spectacularly misinterpreted but here goes.

FIRST of all, what I am saying is that no applicant can have a good idea of what medical field they want to pursue before third year, and going to a USMD allows a chance of becoming a doc in the applicant's desired field (this is a known fact supported by MULTIPLE figures, so go ahead and try to contest lol).
Essentially, what you are saying is that the applicant should just blindly go to DO school, and if they want to pursue derm or PRS, well too bad - because time was wasted [sorry, "spent"] on OMM they didn't have as much time to study and therefore got a lower step one score - But wait! they got a 600 on their COMLEX. As they eagerly submit this to their ACGME PD, they soon realize s/he doesn't care/know what that even means and takes into account their 220 step I. Now they have to go to the <50 - bed community program doing gsurg and hope to god that they match into a fellowship (chances ≈ 0). So I mean yeah, I guess what you are saying holds true, that one can become a licensed doc either way, but why restrict yourself to certain specialties right out of the gate (and force you to work harder/limit yourself because of OMM as well as going to a DO school)???

Also, DO grads have [yes, slightly] lower match rates, so why be in that <1%?

However, I do agree with the popular opinion that the OP should goto a DO school vs pharm if they want to be a doc, but they need to get their reasons straight first before making any major life decisions at this point (the road to being a doc is long & hard).
 

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Umm no... I'm not saying DOs are worse or whatever but the reality is that it IS harder to match as a DO. If you look at any specialty it is very clear. Someone earlier in this thread mentioned an orthopod DO and guess what - it was much harder for him to match than the MD one step above him on the match list. Just sayin


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This is still not even remotely true. The match rates for DOs are lower in non-primary care specialties because (for the most part) DO schools really, really push primary care. It's not because it's "just harder for them to match". A DO and an MD with comparable/the same board scores have essentially equal shots at a vast majority of residency positions.

I want to note, though, that there are indeed some residency programs that are harder to enter as a DO. These programs are certainly the minority.

TCOM literally just graduated someone who went on to a neurosurgery residency at Mayo.

It's not a once-in-a-blue-moon phenomenon for DOs to match their (logical) top choice residencies.
 

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This is still not even remotely true. The match rates for DOs are lower in non-primary care specialties because (for the most part) DO schools really, really push primary care. It's not because it's "just harder for them to match". A DO and an MD with comparable/the same board scores have essentially equal shots at a vast majority of residency positions.

I want to note, though, that there are indeed some residency programs that are harder to enter as a DO. These programs are certainly the minority.

TCOM literally just graduated someone who went on to a neurosurgery residency at Mayo.

It's not a once-in-a-blue-moon phenomenon for DOs to match their (logical) top choice residencies.
No - that's exactly what I'm saying...it is harder for DO students to have higher board scores because of the multiple hours a week spent studying OMM. Think about it - USMD with more time to study basic sciences vs a DO who needs to have OMM classes, labs, and devote valuable studying hours to [OMM]. Simply, this is a large factor as to why DOs have lower board scores.

Many, many ACGME programs discriminate DOs - and so does popular opinion... the average US citizen will not know what a DO is, and will almost certainly know what an MD is (in fact, there is an SDN thread describing this very phenomenon).

An n=1 means nothing (although that's pretty impressive ngl - especially with the added hardship of being a DO [and all that comes with it]).
 

Isoval

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No - that's exactly what I'm saying...it is harder for DO students to have higher board scores because of the multiple hours a week spent studying OMM. Think about it - USMD with more time to study basic sciences vs a DO who needs to have OMM classes, labs, and devote valuable studying hours to [OMM]. Simply, this is a large factor as to why DOs have lower board scores.

Many, many ACGME programs discriminate DOs - and so does popular opinion... the average US citizen will not know what a DO is, and will almost certainly know what an MD is (in fact, there is an SDN thread describing this very phenomenon).

An n=1 means nothing (although that's pretty impressive ngl - especially with the added hardship of being a DO [and all that comes with it]).
COMLEX is not compared to USMLE and most residency programs.
DOs must take both COMLEX and USMLE to be competitive for most ACGME residencies (COMLEX to receive the DO degree, USMLE to apply for ACGME residency). The applicants applying to these programs will be judged on the USMLE scores. I'm not really sure what your point is about OMM.

Hell, even if you wanted to make an argument about "more time for OMM" or something, many DO students only prepare for a few days with OMM material (after taking USMLE) before taking and receiving a comparable score on COMLEX.

As for you n=1 comment, I was giving an example that this is not uncommon for DO residents to match to their top choices. I can even give you the match list I received when interviewing at TCOM. I'm relatively sure you'd find yourself surprised. TCOM has placed 100% of graduated in the past two years and placed 99.6(ish...whatever 228/230 is)% this year.
 

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I consult at large, multi-specialty, multi-site clinic. 150+ docs. 52 = DO, 108+ = MD. DO = medical director. MD = CEO.

Your question about respect amongst the initials was?o_O
 
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Hkhan

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COMLEX is not compared to USMLE and most residency programs.
DOs must take both COMLEX and USMLE to be competitive for most ACGME residencies (COMLEX to receive the DO degree, USMLE to apply for ACGME residency). The applicants applying to these programs will be judged on the USMLE scores. I'm not really sure what your point is about OMM.

Hell, even if you wanted to make an argument about "more time for OMM" or something, many DO students only prepare for a few days with OMM material (after taking USMLE) before taking and receiving a comparable score on COMLEX.

As for you n=1 comment, I was giving an example that this is not uncommon for DO residents to match to their top choices. I can even give you the match list I received when interviewing at TCOM. I'm relatively sure you'd find yourself surprised. TCOM has placed 100% of graduated in the past two years and placed 99.6(ish...whatever 228/230 is)% this year.
I don't care about TCOM - that's also n = 1. The reason you can't show overall rates is because they're worse.

Also, just tell me this - why do MD schools have higher MCAT/GPA/sGPA and are always aimed at as a first option. DO schools are [generally] looked at when MD is unattainable unless someone is in love with OMM (which is not awfully common).

Quoting Goro from his 1000s of WAMC responses, "500+ for DO, 505+ for MD." And this is an adcom at a DO school, so this advice is solid.

Explain :).


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Hkhan

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COMLEX is not compared to USMLE and most residency programs.
DOs must take both COMLEX and USMLE to be competitive for most ACGME residencies (COMLEX to receive the DO degree, USMLE to apply for ACGME residency). The applicants applying to these programs will be judged on the USMLE scores. I'm not really sure what your point is about OMM.

Hell, even if you wanted to make an argument about "more time for OMM" or something, many DO students only prepare for a few days with OMM material (after taking USMLE) before taking and receiving a comparable score on COMLEX.

As for you n=1 comment, I was giving an example that this is not uncommon for DO residents to match to their top choices. I can even give you the match list I received when interviewing at TCOM. I'm relatively sure you'd find yourself surprised.
That's exactly what I'm saying - applicants will be measured on the basis of their USMLEs [for ACGME] but they have to waste time preparing for COMLEX [for AOA match]. So that "few days" is actually hours a week (Like every other class in med school) that adds and when compared to their MD counterparts, DOs don't have as high USMLE scores (even though some may have high COMLEX scores, as I previously stated, that doesn't mean high USMLEs which are important for ACGMEs).

Sorry, meant to post this earlier but forgot.
 

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So what's the point of this thread? Letting us know that you don't want to be a DO? Well good! You don't have to let us know by the way :D
 
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The world is ending... Goro's account is on hold?!?!?!?! o_O WHAT??? :eek::eek:
 
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Just curious, (and this question is for everyone) would you forego applying to DO schools because you really want to become an orthopedic surgeon?
I have the stats for MD (LizzyM 73) but am a reapplicant...
not sure if I should just apply DO now or give myself another year to boost the app and try again for MD

Thanks and sorry for hijacking this thread
 

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I don't care
Simple question:

Why is a high school sophomore so interested in DO?

2nd simple question:

What was the point of you investigating residencies? You're not even out of high school yet, let alone on any path toward med school.

Just curious, (and this question is for everyone) would you forego applying to DO schools because you really want to become an orthopedic surgeon? I have the stats for MD (LizzyM 73) but am a reapplicant... not sure if I should just apply DO now or give myself another year to boost the app and try again for MD
I would delete your post and go to the premed forums and ask your question there as a stand alone question as you might get better responses.
 

Hkhan

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Simple question:

Why is a high school sophomore so interested in DO?

2nd simple question:

What was the point of you investigating residencies? You're not even out of high school yet, let alone on any path toward med school.


I would delete your post and go to the premed forums and ask your question there as a stand alone question as you might get better responses.
I'm not interested in DO I'm interested in MD...as I have continually implied.


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Why is a high school sophomore so interested in DO?
Ah, did not realize OP was so young. Sorry OP, I shouldn't have been so harsh.
Right now, you should be focused on doing well in high school and getting into college. Med school is very far in the future for you, and you're going to change more than you could ever realize between now and when you apply for med school. So don't waste your energy thinking about MD vs. DO right now, that's not what's important at the stage of life that you're in.
 

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That's exactly what I'm saying - applicants will be measured on the basis of their USMLEs [for ACGME] but they have to waste time preparing for COMLEX [for AOA match]. So that "few days" is actually hours a week (Like every other class in med school) that adds and when compared to their MD counterparts, DOs don't have as high USMLE scores (even though some may have high COMLEX scores, as I previously stated, that doesn't mean high USMLEs which are important for ACGMEs).

Sorry, meant to post this earlier but forgot.
DOs do not prepare independently for COMLEX and USMLE. Many DOs study solely for the USMLE, take it, then take COMLEX the next week after brushing up on OMM. The exams cover exactly the same material.
 

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I'm not interested in DO I'm interested in MD...as I have continually implied.
I don't care what your preference is you speak as if you know something about the path, you don't. Other people might not catch that you are IN HIGH SCHOOL and listen to your words; they shouldn't... not unless you're the 2nd coming of the fictional Doogie Howser.

Focus on high school and getting into the best college you can, doing the best you can when you get there. I might also suggest you stop posting on the forums NOT for high school kids (ala most of them) as you really do not have any perspective on any of it. Sure, reading might help you frame things you do like volunteering and shadowing, might help you understand what / how / when to do what but really?

None of that matters. You're what 15? When it comes time for you to apply things will be different for you.

Ah, did not realize OP was so young. Sorry OP, I shouldn't have been so harsh.
He sort of brought it on himself being kind of arrogant and know-it-allish without even having graduated high school... 1/2 the time I don't know what he's saying; maybe he's really an AAMC employee trying to figure out new wording the triple backwards, double negative with an ironic twist question stem?
 
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Lannister

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He sort of brought it on himself being kind of arrogant and know-it-allish without even having graduated high school... 1/2 the time I don't know what he's saying; maybe he's really an AAMC employee trying to figure out new wording the triple backwards, double negative with an ironic twist question stem?
Haha but have you ever met a 15 year old who wasn't an arrogant know-it-all? I think those are pretty typical qualities for a 15 year old, so it's pretty forgivable.
 

Hkhan

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Haha but have you ever met a 15 year old who wasn't an arrogant know-it-all? I think those are pretty typical qualities for a 15 year old, so it's pretty forgivable.
I just want to confirm... I'm not the OP here.


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Lannister

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I just want to confirm... I'm not the OP here.


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Ah my bad, thought @Ad2b was quoting OP lol. Advice I gave still applies to you. And I retract my apology for being harsh to the OP.
 

Hkhan

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I just want to confirm... I'm not the OP here.


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Also sorry for any potential arrogance I have projected.
However, you all did have the opinion of me possibly being an AAMC employee so that mean I wasn't completely dumb/un knowledgeable about match rates and stuff.

Also, does anyone know how to delete posts to prevent situations like this from reoccurring (I want to delete my post that makes me age-identifiable)?


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Hkhan

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DOs do not prepare independently for COMLEX and USMLE. Many DOs study solely for the USMLE, take it, then take COMLEX the next week after brushing up on OMM. The exams cover exactly the same material.
YES, I know...
However, it DOES take time to go through the green book (Savarese) when that time could be (better?) used for step studying.


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