I exaggerated my EC's on AMCAS and I got called on it.

[Terry Toma]

Everything you do is for your own benefit.

Imperial evidence and evolutionary logic do not support this claim.

Thought experiment: Imagine that by some magic, you are able to choose how you will die. You can either a) die in a nuclear war that destroys the entirety of the human population, or b) die in a sudden cardiac event. In either case, you die at the exact same time, and you experience no pain. The only difference is that you get to decide whether to take the whole world with you or not.

If your post is accurate, any individual will be perfectly indifferent between the two options. Put differently, if you had to pay $1 to be allowed to select option b, you would elect option a instead. You'll be dead anyway, so it doesn't benefit you for society to continue. You derive greater benefit from keeping your $1 than you would by maintaining life on earth. I'm willing to bet that most people would be willing to pay the $1.

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[Dr. Hugh Hefner]

Imperial evidence and evolutionary logic do not support this claim.

Thought experiment: Imagine that by some magic, you are able to choose how you will die. You can either a) die in a nuclear war that destroys the entirety of the human population, or b) die in a sudden cardiac event. In either case, you die at the exact same time, and you experience no pain. The only difference is that you get to decide whether to take the whole world with you or not.

If your post is accurate, any individual will be perfectly indifferent between the two options. Put differently, if you had to pay $1 to be allowed to select option b, you would elect option a instead. You'll be dead anyway, so it doesn't benefit you for society to continue. You derive greater benefit from keeping your $1 than you would by maintaining life on earth. I'm willing to bet that most people would be willing to pay the $1.

lolwut?

 

[Terry Toma]

lolwut?

If everything you do is for your own benefit, you won't be willing to spend $1 on something that benefits the world, but does not benefit you. People likely would do so, though, disproving the original claim.

 

[el_duderino]

Imperial evidence and evolutionary logic do not support this claim.

Thought experiment: Imagine that by some magic, you are able to choose how you will die. You can either a) die in a nuclear war that destroys the entirety of the human population, or b) die in a sudden cardiac event. In either case, you die at the exact same time, and you experience no pain. The only difference is that you get to decide whether to take the whole world with you or not.

If your post is accurate, any individual will be perfectly indifferent between the two options. Put differently, if you had to pay $1 to be allowed to select option b, you would elect option a instead. You'll be dead anyway, so it doesn't benefit you for society to continue. You derive greater benefit from keeping your $1 than you would by maintaining life on earth. I'm willing to bet that most people would be willing to pay the $1.

Interesting way to put it.

 

[jl lin]

That's more of a nice side-effect than a reason.



Maybe everything you do is for your own benefit. Not everybody is like you.

LOL Cotterpin, if you are going to quote me, could you please edit and make the proper corrections in my text? Obviously it should read it rather than is in that text.

Also, well, I like to believe that good things for others are good things for us too. I'm an idealistic pragmatist. LOL No. That is not an oxymoron.

 

[jl lin]

Imperial evidence and evolutionary logic do not support this claim.

Thought experiment: Imagine that by some magic, you are able to choose how you will die. You can either a) die in a nuclear war that destroys the entirety of the human population, or b) die in a sudden cardiac event. In either case, you die at the exact same time, and you experience no pain. The only difference is that you get to decide whether to take the whole world with you or not.

If your post is accurate, any individual will be perfectly indifferent between the two options. Put differently, if you had to pay $1 to be allowed to select option b, you would elect option a instead. You'll be dead anyway, so it doesn't benefit you for society to continue. You derive greater benefit from keeping your $1 than you would by maintaining life on earth. I'm willing to bet that most people would be willing to pay the $1.

lolwut?

Yea, I had to totally LOL on that one too.

Surely no one has ever done anything for purely selfless reasons! My God.

"Existence precedes essence." Extreme existentialists. They are as devoid of hope as the Sadducees.

We will again take a turn into Philosophy core curriculum. sigh

 

[Terry Toma]

Yea, I had to totally LOL on that one too.

Surely no one has ever done anything for purely selfless reasons! My God.

"Existence precedes essence." Extreme existentialists. They are as devoid of hope as the Sadducees.

We will again take a turn into Philosophy core curriculum. sigh

Ha, okay, I admit that my example might have been a bit out there, but the basic logic really boils down to this: By definition, something can only benefit you if it happens during your lifetime. So tautologically, a person who only cares about benefiting themselves will only care about what happens prior to their own death. So the fact that anyone cares about anything that will occur after/concurrent with their own death proves that people don't only care about benefiting themselves.

Not sure this is really existential. I've never taken a philosophy class. But I did major in economics, so my thought process is really based on figuring out what people value, and people clearly do place value on things that don't solely benefit themselves.

 

[wasteofspace323]

Imperial evidence and evolutionary logic do not support this claim.

Thought experiment: Imagine that by some magic, you are able to choose how you will die. You can either a) die in a nuclear war that destroys the entirety of the human population, or b) die in a sudden cardiac event. In either case, you die at the exact same time, and you experience no pain. The only difference is that you get to decide whether to take the whole world with you or not.

If your post is accurate, any individual will be perfectly indifferent between the two options. Put differently, if you had to pay $1 to be allowed to select option b, you would elect option a instead. You'll be dead anyway, so it doesn't benefit you for society to continue. You derive greater benefit from keeping your $1 than you would by maintaining life on earth. I'm willing to bet that most people would be willing to pay the $1.

Altruism has evolutionary benefits. Also, I suspect you're underestimating the number who would pay for choice A.

 

[jaxon]

I nominate this thread for the 2015 "getting off topic" award

 

[IlDestriero]

Imperial evidence and evolutionary logic do not support this claim.

Thought experiment: Imagine that by some magic, you are able to choose how you will die. You can either a) die in a nuclear war that destroys the entirety of the human population, or b) die in a sudden cardiac event. In either case, you die at the exact same time, and you experience no pain. The only difference is that you get to decide whether to take the whole world with you or not.

If your post is accurate, any individual will be perfectly indifferent between the two options. Put differently, if you had to pay $1 to be allowed to select option b, you would elect option a instead. You'll be dead anyway, so it doesn't benefit you for society to continue. You derive greater benefit from keeping your $1 than you would by maintaining life on earth. I'm willing to bet that most people would be willing to pay the $1.

I'd take one last hot fudge Sunday from the dollar menu and go out in style.

 

[Terry Toma]

Altruism has evolutionary benefits. Also, I suspect you're underestimating the number who would pay for choice A.

I think we're in agreement, actually. My point was that people would pay a token amount of money to avoid something bad happening to everyone else, showing that they would sacrifice to help others even if it didn't benefit them (sorry if I worded this unclearly).

Anyway, I'll move on to avoid derailing the thread any further (what was this thread supposed to be about again?).

 

[Psai]

I'd take one last hot fudge Sunday from the dollar menu and go out in style.

I'd rather go out like Tyrion Lannister

 

[Planes2Doc]

it's a chronic issue for many

Yeah I don't understand most of you on this site.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

Yeah I don't understand most of you on this site.

a common denominator may be found there

 

[Planes2Doc]

This thread is so freaking depressing. Why do so many people apparently think volunteering is something they're doing for their own benefit?

True altruism is a very rare trait. Being a pre-med doesn't make someone morally superior to someone who has no intention of going to medical school. Sorry.

 

[Planes2Doc]

a common denominator may be found there

Not sure what you mean there or if it's a personal attack or not. At least I don't go attacking or insulting members here.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

Not sure what you mean there or if it's a personal attack or not. At least I don't go attacking or insulting members here.

Just callin it like I see it

 

[Planes2Doc]

Just callin it like I see it

So what's not to understand about the whole thing? Have you never met a medical student that volunteered and did their ECs solely because of their application?

 

[Cotterpin]

True altruism is a very rare trait. Being a pre-med doesn't make someone morally superior to someone who has no intention of going to medical school. Sorry.

What? What exactly are you apologizing for? There are tons of people out there who are not premeds who do volunteer work just because they believe in the causes they're volunteering for. They're not trying to get anything out of it for themselves.

 

[Planes2Doc]

What? What exactly are you apologizing for? There are tons of people out there who are not premeds who do volunteer work just because they believe in the causes they're volunteering for. They're not trying to get anything out of it for themselves.

Yes there are. There are lots of great people out there who give back. Over 90% of pre-meds who are admitted to medical school have volunteered, so it's hard to imagine that nearly all of them would have done it regardless. I have a statistic somewhere, and would need to find it, which says somewhere ~20% of less of the population is engaged in volunteer work. With such a huge discrepancy between pre-meds and non-pre-med college students, there is no way that this former group is any way morally superior to the rest of the population.

When I post in these threads, I never say volunteering is bad. In fact, the principal of volunteering is terrific. But a good number, but not all, of pre-meds denigrate the meaning of it.

 

[Holmwood]

Lol, I'm sure app building does play some part into motivating many premeds into doing random ECs. It's not necessarily a bad thing though.

My early ECs were initially resume building stuff for job application purposes. I couldn't find any positions for undergrads without resumes. The hospital was the only place that was walking distance (too poor for a car) that wanted my resume-less butt. The idea of a medical career just sort of grew on me after working a couple of years over there.

I'm sure there's a bunch of premeds that chose ECs for less than altruistic reasons. But so long as they grew from the experience, I really don't see why it should be labeled "pointless". Of course not everyone grows from these experiences. I understand that. I don't think they would be able to make a good case for admissions consideration if the experiences meant nothing to them though... (well unless they're really good at BSing).

 

[Planes2Doc]

Alright, sorry for being so vocal in this thread. For years I have been passionate about this topic. Now I realize that people are throwing anecdotal evidence forwards and backwards. You have a majority of people on SDN saying that volunteering is crucial to becoming a doctor, and if you don't do it or you do it but don't enjoy it, you'll be a terrible doctor. Then there are the minority on the other end, that say volunteering and other ECs suck, and people only do them for the sake of their medical school application. As for me, I'm closer to the latter camp, but understand that there are indeed people who do these activities because they genuinely want to, but make up the minority.

Here is some data you might find interesting, the BLS report on volunteering from 2014: http://www.bls.gov/news.release/volun.nr0.htm

Yup, here is legitimate data assembled by the government. Now if you're looking at the data, you see that individuals from 16 to 25 years of age volunteered at 21.9% of the population. The age group that made up the largest group of volunteers is 35 to 44 years of age, which volunteered at 29.8% of the population. This is quite a bit higher than 16 to 25 year olds, which make up high school and college students. I don't remember the latest data on the number of matriculants that volunteered, but I remember seeing it hover close to 90%.

So let's do a little math then... Let's pull the 16 to 25 years of age population, since these make up the majority of applicants to medical school. Now, I'm certain that this 21.9% of the population includes high school students that were volunteering in order to make up for a graduation requirement and students looking to pad their applications for competitive first-tier universities. As for college students, of course there will be pre-med, pre-health, pre-law, and other students also trying to pad their applications. Also, don't forget that criminals that are given community service in lieu of jail time need to put up serious commitments. So all of these groups need to be counted in this 21.9%. But for the sake of argument, let's just assume that this 21.9% of 16 to 25 year olds are actually volunteering under their own free will, and not to fulfill requirements or pad their resumes/applications.

So here's what you get...
9/10 applicants that made it to medical school have volunteered. 1/10 have not. This latter group I'm guessing either had very heavy research or insanely high stats, or took part in a BS/MD program which allowed them to do what they wanted (and therefore not volunteer or do other ECs) in college.

So according to the 21.9% of 16 to 25 year olds that volunteer because they enjoy it, let's assume that 2/10 pre-meds that volunteered for their application actually did it because they wanted to. 1/10 did not volunteer for whatever reason. So, that means that 7/10 pre-meds that matriculated volunteered above the 2/10 that did it because they wanted to. Now, why did these 7/10 people volunteer? Was it because pre-meds are a morally superior group of people that are just better than everyone else? Or... Was it because volunteering is considered an unwritten requirement for medical school admission?

The discrepancy between 21.9% of the general population versus ~90% of medical school matriculants is way too big. I have a hard time believing that these are simply morally "better" people. What do you guys think?

 

[wasteofspace323]

Alright, sorry for being so vocal in this thread. For years I have been passionate about this topic. Now I realize that people are throwing anecdotal evidence forwards and backwards. You have a majority of people on SDN saying that volunteering is crucial to becoming a doctor, and if you don't do it or you do it but don't enjoy it, you'll be a terrible doctor. Then there are the minority on the other end, that say volunteering and other ECs suck, and people only do them for the sake of their medical school application. As for me, I'm closer to the latter camp, but understand that there are indeed people who do these activities because they genuinely want to, but make up the minority.

Here is some data you might find interesting, the BLS report on volunteering from 2014: http://www.bls.gov/news.release/volun.nr0.htm

Yup, here is legitimate data assembled by the government. Now if you're looking at the data, you see that individuals from 16 to 25 years of age volunteered at 21.9% of the population. The age group that made up the largest group of volunteers is 35 to 44 years of age, which volunteered at 29.8% of the population. This is quite a bit higher than 16 to 25 year olds, which make up high school and college students. I don't remember the latest data on the number of matriculants that volunteered, but I remember seeing it hover close to 90%.

So let's do a little math then... Let's pull the 16 to 25 years of age population, since these make up the majority of applicants to medical school. Now, I'm certain that this 21.9% of the population includes high school students that were volunteering in order to make up for a graduation requirement and students looking to pad their applications for competitive first-tier universities. As for college students, of course there will be pre-med, pre-health, pre-law, and other students also trying to pad their applications. Also, don't forget that criminals that are given community service in lieu of jail time need to put up serious commitments. So all of these groups need to be counted in this 21.9%. But for the sake of argument, let's just assume that this 21.9% of 16 to 25 year olds are actually volunteering under their own free will, and not to fulfill requirements or pad their resumes/applications.

So here's what you get...
9/10 applicants that made it to medical school have volunteered. 1/10 have not. This latter group I'm guessing either had very heavy research or insanely high stats, or took part in a BS/MD program which allowed them to do what they wanted (and therefore not volunteer or do other ECs) in college.

So according to the 21.9% of 16 to 25 year olds that volunteer because they enjoy it, let's assume that 2/10 pre-meds that volunteered for their application actually did it because they wanted to. 1/10 did not volunteer for whatever reason. So, that means that 7/10 pre-meds that matriculated volunteered above the 2/10 that did it because they wanted to. Now, why did these 7/10 people volunteer? Was it because pre-meds are a morally superior group of people that are just better than everyone else? Or... Was it because volunteering is considered an unwritten requirement for medical school admission?

The discrepancy between 21.9% of the general population versus ~90% of medical school matriculants is way too big. I have a hard time believing that these are simply morally "better" people. What do you guys think?

I'd imagine if you cut out those who have potential motives, such as those you listed, the amount of people volunteering would be way, way, way sub 20%. I'm thinking more 3%. There are classes in college that require volunteering. My high school had a volunteering field trip. The list goes on. The 20% is ridiculously inflated.

 

[rocklobstr]

Imperial evidence and evolutionary logic do not support this claim.

Do you mean empirical?

 

[Tommyguns89]

If everything you do is for your own benefit, you won't be willing to spend $1 on something that benefits the world, but does not benefit you. People likely would do so, though, disproving the original claim.

You would benefit yourself by not feeling like a monster. Even doing something for other people lets the doer feel good. If that wasnt so do you think there would be any charity/altruism?

 

[Planes2Doc]

I'd imagine if you cut out those who have potential motives, such as those you listed, the amount of people volunteering would be way, way, way sub 20%. I'm thinking more 3%. There are classes in college that require volunteering. My high school had a volunteering field trip. The list goes on. The 20% is ridiculously inflated.

That's a good point and yeah I agree. I think the study took into account consistent commitments though. When I was in undergrad, I took part in some volunteer events, but they were few and far between. I never even considered that volunteering when I applied to medical school.

 

[Cotterpin]

Yes there are. There are lots of great people out there who give back. Over 90% of pre-meds who are admitted to medical school have volunteered, so it's hard to imagine that nearly all of them would have done it regardless. I have a statistic somewhere, and would need to find it, which says somewhere ~20% of less of the population is engaged in volunteer work. With such a huge discrepancy between pre-meds and non-pre-med college students, there is no way that this former group is any way morally superior to the rest of the population.

When I post in these threads, I never say volunteering is bad. In fact, the principal of volunteering is terrific. But a good number, but not all, of pre-meds denigrate the meaning of it.

Okay. But why do you keep insisting to me that premeds are not morally superior to the rest of the population? I never said they were! Kind of the opposite, actually. I said it was depressing that so many of these premeds on this thread view volunteering as something they're doing for their own benefit.

 

[Planes2Doc]

Okay. But why do you keep insisting to me that premeds are not morally superior to the rest of the population? I never said they were! Kind of the opposite, actually. I said it was depressing that so many of these premeds on this thread view volunteering as something they're doing for their own benefit.

Oh my bad. I misinterpreted what you said. Yeah, I agree with you. It's definitely depressing that this is occurring.

 

[SteveRope123]

You guys are terrible. I was being satirical.

 

[jl lin]

There is such a thing where people freely give of their time and volunteer helping neighbors, friends, family, people in their church and communities, as well as those outside of their communities, and not many people know about it. It is part of one's life.

What we are talking about here, however, is the need to somehow have it verified, b/c it's part of one's application. An applicant could have done a great many things that were selfless, in order to somehow help others. The person that would know what they've done best is God; but now this will blow out into theology or the like. I think for some of us it's about seeing people and life as multi-dimensional, and that it is about something much more than biology. Nevertheless, adcoms can't get into all of that. They have to go with what hopefully can be validated. It's no different than getting references. An application process realistically is about presentation and validation.

So, yup. Pre-meds volunteer b/c it's expected for the application. Fine. Whatever. Regardless of the initial motives, it's still an opportunity to both give time, energy, kindness, respect, etc, as well as gain something from the experiences. What may be very telling is how it all went after the student/volunteer got there--what did the student/volunteer give and get out of the experience/s. Furthermore, just like on a job application, you are expected to be forthright and realize that validation will be required. But none of this means that people are not necessarily growing in ways whereby they indeed engage in selfless acts. Hopefully that is incorporated into the person and their life. And these acts aren't all fantastic acts of sacrifice. There are many different ways to give and be a giver rather than a taker. You come to find out who the takers are in work and life, and beyond some annoyance in tolerating them, you realize that they just haven't had the "Ah ha" moment of giving, and doing, and being about something more than just themselves. And we see that any of us can and will be centrally focused until we are somehow moved by some impetus to get out of that thinking where the world is revolving around us. It's that point where it's no longer extrinsic--the reality that it's not all about us. It becomes intrinsic to us.

At the end of the day, many times, you have to leave the judging of motives up to God. The adcom people, however, are not God, and thus they need some validation for the work and, what, if anything, came from it.

 

[Holmwood]

Yeah. Volunteering is good for everyone, regardless of one's motivations for starting. I don't think we need to be so uptight about this issue.

 

[jl lin]

Do you mean empirical?

Well, there is some truth in that applicants must bow to the Medical Empire.

 

[jl lin]

Yeah. Volunteering is good for everyone, regardless of one's motivations for starting. I don't think we need to be so uptight about this issue.

But Holmwood, it's SDN. Uptight is nearly unavoidable.

 

[narvik2016]

I really just want to know what happened to OP.......... lol

 

[XxThaDoggxX]

This thread keeps getting better and better

 

[Spector1]

I really just want to know what happened to OP.......... lol

op was probably a troll

 

[Terry Toma]

Do you mean empirical?

No, it was a Star Wars reference. Darth Vader shows selflessness by saving Luke's life in the end even though it goes against everything he's worked for, thus there is Imperial evidence that people can act selflessly.

Okay, or maybe I just need to learn to proof read.

 

[ImmunoLove]

You guys are terrible. I was being satirical.

whoops...er...oops. I seriously thought you were being an ass...

 

[el_duderino]

probably 80%+ of premeds do volunteering to check a box. Lol

As far as I can tell, most premeds don't ever become physicians.

 

[Lawpy]

Eleven pages lol?? Let me guess most of this thread has been premeds banging on about how critical volunteering is to becoming a selfless physician and how they learned the true meaning of altruism through passing out biscuits and tea

When in fact probably 80%+ of premeds do volunteering to check a box. Lol

That's preallo for you. Where the so-called alruistic premeds will exploit volunteering just for checking that box.

Brb, i need to head to Cancun now for a week-long vacation, medical mission trip to sunbathe and pick up hot women help the disadvantaged and needy.

 

[el_duderino]

Yep you are correct... The ones who have slaved through many hundreds of hours of superficial service (as they see it) are more likely to be interviewed

I tend to think adcoms are, in general, not idiots easily swindled by superficial service. Among the people in my own class I've spoken to about it, I've seen very few instances of such things. Furthermore, most of my classmates continue to be involved in very non-superficial voluntary programs because they simply want to go.

I'd urge you not to take SDN WAMC groupthink as a representation of adcoms across the country.

 

[hopefulERdoc251]

If you find volunteering boring and just a "pad on your application" then you need to find other volunteering activities. Hospital volunteering (filing charts ect) was monotonous yes but when you realize it's part of a bigger picture then it puts things into perspective. Being a part of a bigger team, learning how to work with different personalities, learning how to hold a commitment is all part of the learning process. There were some days volunteering where I wasn't happy, but there were other days when I absolutely loved it. As everybody has said, this journey cannot be a means to an end. It's a long journey, 8 years. If every step is a "means to an end", then you will be miserable until you get to that end, and when you're 60 years old and looking back, you will be even more miserable knowing that you did not enjoy your activities and that you did it "Just to pad your app".

 

[ImmunoLove]

If you find volunteering boring and just a "pad on your application" then you need to find other volunteering activities. Hospital volunteering (filing charts ect) was monotonous yes but when you realize it's part of a bigger picture then it puts things into perspective. Being a part of a bigger team, learning how to work with different personalities, learning how to hold a commitment is all part of the learning process. There were some days volunteering where I wasn't happy, but there were other days when I absolutely loved it. As everybody has said, this journey cannot be a means to an end. It's a long journey, 8 years. If every step is a "means to an end", then you will be miserable until you get to that end, and when you're 60 years old and looking back, you will be even more miserable knowing that you did not enjoy your activities and that you did it "Just to pad your app".

One of my areas of clinical research is hepatobiliary and pancreatic diseases, the malignancies of which are some of the most aggressive and fatal. It's not uncommon for a patient to be in otherwise good health, fairly young, and be diagnosed with an advanced pancreatic cancer. It's sad, but if I end up having to talk to you (for my research), chances are you're going to be dead within a year or two. That fact, the "out of left field and quick demise" lights a fire under me and every time I'm tasked with something I really don't want to do (that is, don't want to do AND it's not part of some bigger picture I care about), I just don't bother with it. Life is too short and can end at any moment, and being faced with death ALL.THE.TIME is a steady reminder to make the most of it (and as someone who might otherwise procrastinate, this is a good thing for me). It's rather paradoxical that being faced with death is what provokes one to embrace life. Yikes.

 

[Planes2Doc]

I tend to think adcoms are, in general, not idiots easily swindled by superficial service. Among the people in my own class I've spoken to about it, I've seen very few instances of such things. Furthermore, most of my classmates continue to be involved in very non-superficial voluntary programs because they simply want to go.

I'd urge you not to take SDN WAMC groupthink as a representation of adcoms across the country.

@jl lin made a great point that ADCOMs won't have much to go off except your hours. What the pre-med actually did and got out of the experience is between them and God. I don't think ADCOMs are idiots. I'm sure they can sense a lot of things. But if you have two people with 500 verifiable hours both saying the same things (and both sound legitimate), then it would be hard to tell the difference. It sucks for the people who genuinely enjoy things and put their heart and soul into it, because those who have verifiable hours but just went through the motions putting in a half-ass effort will look just as good with none of these accomplishments.

Also, it's good most of your classmates have enjoyed volunteering and continuing to do so. For me it's the opposite. Most people I have talked to have said that their volunteer experiences sucked and couldn't be happier to finish them.

In fact, if you head over the Allopathic forum and look at ECs for residency applications posts, you'll see that a lot of members will bluntly say something along the lines of: "PDs don't give a $h1t if you volunteer or not. Just do what you actually enjoy. This isn't pre-med."

As everybody has said, this journey cannot be a means to an end. It's a long journey, 8 years. If every step is a "means to an end", then you will be miserable until you get to that end, and when you're 60 years old and looking back, you will be even more miserable knowing that you did not enjoy your activities and that you did it "Just to pad your app".

We're talking about pre-med, not the entire journey to becoming a physician. Pre-meds tend to put all of their eggs into one basket and bet their entire future on getting into medical school. The biggest gray area in the application is ECs. And when people tend to go overboard, and SDN seems to encourage it, pre-meds can end up tanking their grades and GPAs. Then what happens if they can't get into medical schools and have soft science majors with low GPAs? I know numerous people first-hand who are going through this. And it's not pretty, and you won't hear about it here because people that drop pre-med are unlikely to ever post on this site again.

It's too easy to get caught up with creating a long laundry-list of ECs, but it can harm you if you end up tanking your stats with it. And employers that pay a good salary won't be so forgiving or impressed by these activities either.

 

[jl lin]

Eleven pages lol?? Let me guess most of this thread has been premeds banging on about how critical volunteering is to becoming a selfless physician and how they learned the true meaning of altruism through passing out biscuits and tea

When in fact probably 80%+ of premeds do volunteering to check a box. Lol

Missed by point entirely. Holmwood got it. Oh well.

 

[jl lin]

If you find volunteering boring and just a "pad on your application" then you need to find other volunteering activities. Hospital volunteering (filing charts ect) was monotonous yes but when you realize it's part of a bigger picture then it puts things into perspective. Being a part of a bigger team, learning how to work with different personalities, learning how to hold a commitment is all part of the learning process. There were some days volunteering where I wasn't happy, but there were other days when I absolutely loved it. As everybody has said, this journey cannot be a means to an end. It's a long journey, 8 years. If every step is a "means to an end", then you will be miserable until you get to that end, and when you're 60 years old and looking back, you will be even more miserable knowing that you did not enjoy your activities and that you did it "Just to pad your app".

Yes.

 

[EverStriving]

Sorry if this has already been asked (I didn't read through all 12 pages). Don't the hours you report on the app indicate how many you intend on completing before matriculation, rather than those that you have completed up to the time schools look at the app?

 

[Conflagration]

Sorry if this has already been asked (I didn't read through all 12 pages). Don't the hours you report on the app indicate how many you intend on completing before matriculation, rather than those that you have completed up to the time schools look at the app?

I believe that you can extrapolate into the future about that kind of stuff, but it sounded like he had wrote it down as though the hours were already completed. And the lack of good info for the contact is really not helping his case. And trying to get 150 hours done from now until matriculation time, although not impossible, would be a pain in the ass if he can't move things around in his schedule to accommodate that. (Since it'd be 45 weeks from now until the middle of August 2016, he'd need more than 3 hours a week. It could be done if he has the time.)

OP, that could be your saving grace. Own that the 250 was an expected number and that you're working on it, let your volunteer coordinator know that you're coming back to help out some more, and give them his/her number. You may be able to bail out of this SNAFU, but seriously- don't entertain this kind of crap ever again. This was a very clear warning shot and you might have already done some self-screwing; don't talk the talk unless you can walk the walk.

That might be your only hope, OP. Truthfully, what you did was BS and you should know that you deserved the ass-ripping. But it won't be BS if you're going to work the hours. Good luck to you, and know that next time, you might not be so lucky.

 

[Psai]

Sorry if this has already been asked (I didn't read through all 12 pages). Don't the hours you report on the app indicate how many you intend on completing before matriculation, rather than those that you have completed up to the time schools look at the app?

Why would you say that? I could say I intend to complete a million hours

 

[Conflagration]

Why would you say that? I could say I intend to complete a million hours

I thought that was something you could do, within reason. He'd be stretching it big time, but he still could in theory make those hours.