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I feel like starting some controversy so. . .

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - MD' started by Alexander99, Apr 1, 2004.

  1. Alexander99

    Alexander99 Ghetto Fabulous
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    What do you guys think about these results for the April/August 2003 MCAT results:

    Gender: Mean Scores for Verbal, Phys Sci, Bio Sci

    Female 8.0, 7.6, 8.1 (23.7 total)

    Male 8.3, 8.7, 8.9 (25.9 total)

    Also, 31,723 females took the MCAT in 2003 while only 26,755 males did. Since guys scored over 2 points higher on average and there were almost 5,000 more girls taking the MCAT that guys, does that mean that many girls took the test on a whim and hence do poorly?
     
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  3. johnnyMD

    johnnyMD Membership Revoked
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  4. umass rower

    umass rower Insert clever phrase here
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    It is common for people to have an inflated opinion of themselves. For example, some survey a while back found that 80% of people describe themselves as above-average drivers. There was another survey that got a similar result about intelligence (although the percentage wasn't quite as high).

    I would like to propose that women have inflated opinions of themselves in greater proportions compared to men. If nothing else, it would help explain why I have so much trouble getting women to come on dates with me.
     
  5. Alexander99

    Alexander99 Ghetto Fabulous
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    I'm not sure about women having inflated opinions about themselves. I'm pretty sure there have been several studies that show women are much more critical about themselves (especially when it comes to physical aspects) than men. It makes perfect sense considering all the societal pressures concerning women and their appearance.
     
  6. there_is_no

    there_is_no Member
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    +pity+

    lol, just kidding. :D
     
  7. TheFlash

    TheFlash Playtime Is Over
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    Well, males did outscore females by ~1/3 a standard deviation. However, the real question here is if this differential result is statistically significant. Who wants to find the p-value?
     
  8. umass rower

    umass rower Insert clever phrase here
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    I don't really know how to do stats in general, but with a sample size of around 60,000, I think it would be difficult to get much difference through random chance.
     
  9. irie

    irie royale with cheese
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    I'm not going to calculate it but since n= 30,000 +/- for both populations so I might dare to say that the difference is statistically significant.
     
  10. TheFlash

    TheFlash Playtime Is Over
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    Whatever happened to the scientific method? :laugh:

    p ~< .0000000000001
     
  11. Disenchanted 1

    Disenchanted 1 Senior Member
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  12. Disenchanted 1

    Disenchanted 1 Senior Member
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    :scared: ugh...bad memories from physics, cal, and stat classes...no wonder why I had such a hard time with physics.

    oh yea by the way ...what is p value?!!
     
  13. bewitched1081

    bewitched1081 Senior Member
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    well controversy is all that will remain. because nothing NOTHING is ever what it seems.
     
  14. lyragrl

    lyragrl Mold-a-rama fan
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    Why don't you just say what you really want to? That men are inherently smarter than women. Will that make you feel big and cool? Jeez.
     
  15. getcloned

    getcloned Hilton Magician
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    i think that in order to draw anything from averaged mcat scores you need to look at 5 or 10 years together. 1 year does not really tell you much.

    p.s. boys are better than girls. well, maybe not. girls can be lots of fun too!:thumbup:
     
  16. evines

    evines peek-a-boo
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    I think lyragrl is on to something here. Obviously she breaks the mold.
     
  17. maygirl

    maygirl Senior Member
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    I agree w/lyragrl....Why don't you just throw in the stats by race, too, and then come up with the same implications that you're obviously trying to make here.
     
  18. Sharkfan

    Sharkfan Senior Member
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    The results may be statistically significant, but you'd have to look a lot deeper to get the whole picture. More females took the MCAT- why? I have a feeling that a lot of sociocultural stuff is sitting in the wings on this one...
     
  19. TheFlash

    TheFlash Playtime Is Over
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    Interesing, the largest difference between the two samples was on the VR section. More than a point. I'm curious, because didn't the Collegeboard recently do a study that women outscore men on reading comprehension and writing/grammar tests? There's more to the story than just the actual scores, including human capital investment in education and societal pressures.


    By the way, Disenchanted1, a p-value is a statistical measure of the significance of a hypothesis test. I would go into detail, but I don't want to scare all the stat-phobes. :)
     
  20. hale-bopp

    hale-bopp Senior Member
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    More women probably took the MCAT because more women want to apply to med school. More women than men applied this year for the first time ever, I bet it is just a continuation of that trend.

    Women probably did worse on the MCAT because women do worse on standardized tests, in general. I don't think it means they're less smart, but that they are less good, on average, at standardized tests. It's true on the SAT, also, although I think the difference is smaller. (I am a woman and a very good test taker, I am not saying that all women are bad at taking tests, or that taking tests well is the same as being smart, there are plenty of very smart people who test poorly, although I don't think many very dumb people test well. please no flames.)

    I also think women in our society are often discouraged from excelling at math or science (other than biology, which seems to be acceptable), due mostly to social pressure, but also to demonstrated differences in how teachers interact with male and female students. But that is a whole other can of worms that I really don't want to argue about.
     
  21. Chrisobean

    Chrisobean The Killer Bean
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    you guys are actually analyzing this??? nerds...


    :p
     
  22. umass rower

    umass rower Insert clever phrase here
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    I love how I go out of my way to express sarcasm and people still take me seriously (and I'm not picking on you Disenchanted1, you just had the strongest reaction to my post). There_is_no had it right, my concluding sentence had nothing to do with anything, and was my attempt to lighten things up a little before this thread degenerated into a bunch of baseless, sweeping generalizations about the sexes and their respective gender roles in America. It would appear that my efforts were in vain. And even worse, it seems that somebody threw out the race card within the first page. In very short order, this thread will be no fun at all.

    In the Lenten spirit, I will follow the example of Pontius Pilate and wash my hands of this affair.

    And for whoever asked, the p-value is a measure of the likelihood that a result could happen by random chance. The smaller the p-value, the less likely it is that it is simply a matter of random chance. If TheFlash is right (and I have no reason to think he's wrong), and p ~< .0000000000001, it means that there's essentially no chance that this just happened by accident.
     
  23. LP1CW

    LP1CW Senior Member
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    Wait, could these difference be the result of historical discrimination? Should we lower the bar for women? Should we have gender recruiting program established at each school, like minority recruitment?

    This is very sad. I think women shouldn't have to take the same exams as men. we should let them write about how the feel about physics.
     
  24. Abe

    Abe Senior Member
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    change the mcat to be more woman freindly is what a group will say soon, like the sat is getting harassed because it's not urban freindly.
     
  25. exmike

    exmike NOR * CAL
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    the short explanation.

    P<.00000000001

    means there is a .0000000001% probability that the difference could have happened by chance. which means it didnt happen by chance.
     

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