I finished!

[Jim1970]

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Hello,

Thought I'd stop by and share the good news: I successfully defended my dissertation, and it is now being bound - I'M DONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I haven't been a very active member here, but I have read a lot of comments, and I have posted a couple of times. Thank you for the support and kindness that I have received.

My degree is the doctor of psychology, with an emphasis in organizational leadership & development. My dissertation was specific to executive coaching practices. Upon completion of the degree, I was immediately promoted to director of operations in my job, and given a moderate salary increase, with a few additional responsibilities.

Upon reflection, I am almost 100% confident that I would NOT attend the same school again. They were passively dishonest, at times blatantly dishonest; they had consistent staff turnover, including key players in the school (lost 2 different chair people because they quit abruptly); and communication with various departments (primarily the registrar) was horrid. I did my entire degree on campus, but my colleagues who did their studies online reported even MORE troubles than I experienced. While they had and have regional accreditation, the highly coveted APA that was promised 5 years ago never came. Since my specialty went from clinical to organizational, that never slowed me down.

While I have nothing good to say about the school, I will say that a couple of the instructors were really, really superb. And, I can say that I walked away from the experience thinking about things differently. And, that's what it's all about - not the paper, but the ability to learn and think at a deeper level. A recent quote I saw sums this up. Paraphrased, it went something like this: knowledge and learning are not about the memorization of facts or details, but rather developing the ability to think critically.

Thanks for letting me offer my thoughts and experiences! If you are struggling to complete your doctorate, hang in there, keep pushing, and ask for help!

Take care,

James

 

[Rivi]

Congrats man!

 

[PHD12]

Congratulations!!!

Doctoral training is tough enough. Too bad such programs also don't offer much support and have so much organizational dysfunction.

Now that you have your degree, would you be able to post the name of the program?

 

[Phipps]

...sounds like maybe...Fielding - but guessing means not knowing....

 

[PsychScience]

Hello,

Thought I'd stop by and share the good news: I successfully defended my dissertation, and it is now being bound - I'M DONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I haven't been a very active member here, but I have read a lot of comments, and I have posted a couple of times. Thank you for the support and kindness that I have received.

My degree is the doctor of psychology, with an emphasis in organizational leadership & development. My dissertation was specific to executive coaching practices. Upon completion of the degree, I was immediately promoted to director of operations in my job, and given a moderate salary increase, with a few additional responsibilities.

Upon reflection, I am almost 100% confident that I would NOT attend the same school again. They were passively dishonest, at times blatantly dishonest; they had consistent staff turnover, including key players in the school (lost 2 different chair people because they quit abruptly); and communication with various departments (primarily the registrar) was horrid. I did my entire degree on campus, but my colleagues who did their studies online reported even MORE troubles than I experienced. While they had and have regional accreditation, the highly coveted APA that was promised 5 years ago never came. Since my specialty went from clinical to organizational, that never slowed me down.

While I have nothing good to say about the school, I will say that a couple of the instructors were really, really superb. And, I can say that I walked away from the experience thinking about things differently. And, that's what it's all about - not the paper, but the ability to learn and think at a deeper level. A recent quote I saw sums this up. Paraphrased, it went something like this: knowledge and learning are not about the memorization of facts or details, but rather developing the ability to think critically.

Thanks for letting me offer my thoughts and experiences! If you are struggling to complete your doctorate, hang in there, keep pushing, and ask for help!

Take care,

James

Congratulations 🙂 Sounds like all your hard work is paying off already!!

As, for the problems you faced in your program, I commend you for your ability to encounter each issue, actively overcome them, create your own success, and still remain positive about the elements of the experience that were helpful.

But I have to admit, I always find it so ironic when programs purport to offer training or specialization in an area that they so clearly seem to have difficulty with themselves. I mean, how does a program that wants to educate students on being organizational leaders have such poor organizational practices? This, however, should not take anything away from your success! Congrats again!

 

[CheetahGirl]

Congratulations, Dr. James! You persevered and certainly earned your doctorate!



Have a cold one for me on St. Patrick's Day (if you imbibe)!

 

[futureapppsy2]

...sounds like maybe...Fielding - but guessing means not knowing....

Nope, Fielding is already APA accredited and has been for some time (although it is currently on probation).

OP, congrats! 😀

 

[compassionate1]

You did it! 🙂

Best wishes for the road ahead.

Compassionate1

 

[cara susanna]

Capella, maybe?

 

[tpizza01]

Hello,

... I can say that I walked away from the experience thinking about things differently. And, that's what it's all about - not the paper, but the ability to learn and think at a deeper level ...
...

This is the absolute smartest thing I have read on this entire forum yet. Congratulations!

You have proven that the ability to adapt to change and the ability to think critically, and take personal responsibility for your path, can truly pay off.

Like some of the others here though, I wonder what school? I am in the process of looking for a Doctoral program, and one of the issues I am facing is not being able to quit work and go to a full time traditional school. I am thus limited, but will say no more to what my choices are limited to because it will attract the regulars on here. Thanks for your post, it has helped me to retain some confidence in the hardworking, sponge-learning student that I am 👍

 

[PHD12]

This is the absolute smartest thing I have read on this entire forum yet. Congratulations!

You have proven that the ability to adapt to change and the ability to think critically, and take personal responsibility for your path, can truly pay off.

Like some of the others here though, I wonder what school? I am in the process of looking for a Doctoral program, and one of the issues I am facing is not being able to quit work and go to a full time traditional school. I am thus limited, but will say no more to what my choices are limited to because it will attract the regulars on here. Thanks for your post, it has helped me to retain some confidence in the hardworking, sponge-learning student that I am 👍

Some people use this forum for looking for what they want to hear and ignore the rest. I think everyone does this to a certain extent.

The OP was clearly stating that he is 100% confident he would never attend his program again and would not recommend the path. He learned despite his program, but we all read it differently don't we.

"Upon reflection, I am almost 100% confident that I would NOT attend the same school again. They were passively dishonest, at times blatantly dishonest; they had consistent staff turnover, including key players in the school (lost 2 different chair people because they quit abruptly); and communication with various departments (primarily the registrar) was horrid. I did my entire degree on campus, but my colleagues who did their studies online reported even MORE troubles than I experienced. While they had and have regional accreditation, the highly coveted APA that was promised 5 years ago never came. Since my specialty went from clinical to organizational, that never slowed me down. "

Does this sound like a recommendation for online/unaccredited programs to you?

 

[tpizza01]

Some people use this forum for looking for what they want to hear and ignore the rest. I think everyone does this to a certain extent.

The OP was clearly stating that he is 100% confident he would never attend his program again and would not recommend the path. He learned despite his program, but we all read it differently don't we.

"Upon reflection, I am almost 100% confident that I would NOT attend the same school again. They were passively dishonest, at times blatantly dishonest; they had consistent staff turnover, including key players in the school (lost 2 different chair people because they quit abruptly); and communication with various departments (primarily the registrar) was horrid. I did my entire degree on campus, but my colleagues who did their studies online reported even MORE troubles than I experienced. While they had and have regional accreditation, the highly coveted APA that was promised 5 years ago never came. Since my specialty went from clinical to organizational, that never slowed me down. "

Does this sound like a recommendation for online/unaccredited programs to you?

His comment states that he would not attend "the same school" again, hte name of which he has yet to provide. It does not read "I would not recommend, nor attend any online/unaccredited degree program".

Some of us are here for information, not necessarily to get what they want to hear. Some of us are mature enough to understand the difference and value in specific information. I believe you took my comment the wrong way and in assumption, as I was referring to his being able to deal with an obviously undesriable situation and make it work for him. I admire that and congratulated him on his victory. Being around the same age as Jim (I assume based on his handle, Jim1970) I congratulate him not only on his victory, but willingness to take on such an endeavor - I know it's not easy.

As far as me looking for an online school or a school that would fit my needs, I hardly think that it warrants any judgment as I am only looking right now. I placed my thoughts on that in there to deter any judgement or debate on teh online/trad subject ... but it seems like it might happen here as well, based on the tone of your post.

 

[PHD12]

as I was referring to his being able to deal with an obviously undesriable situation and make it work for him. I admire that and congratulated him on his victory. Being around the same age as Jim (I assume based on his handle, Jim1970) I congratulate him not only on his victory, but willingness to take on such an endeavor - I know it's not easy.

I would agree with that part.

But why say this comment below if you are open to information? What is this comment necessary? Recommendations against online programs are actually based on factual information, but you don't want to hear about it. Many of the people on this forum who are vocal against online doctoral education are licensed psychologists and are involved in hiring people for positions:

I am thus limited, but will say no more to what my choices are limited to because it will attract the regulars on here.

 

[bcliff]

Congrats Jim!

His comment states that he would not attend "the same school" again, hte name of which he has yet to provide. It does not read "I would not recommend, nor attend any online/unaccredited degree program".

Some of us are here for information, not necessarily to get what they want to hear. Some of us are mature enough to understand the difference and value in specific information. I believe you took my comment the wrong way and in assumption, as I was referring to his being able to deal with an obviously undesriable situation and make it work for him. I admire that and congratulated him on his victory. Being around the same age as Jim (I assume based on his handle, Jim1970) I congratulate him not only on his victory, but willingness to take on such an endeavor - I know it's not easy.

As far as me looking for an online school or a school that would fit my needs, I hardly think that it warrants any judgment as I am only looking right now. I placed my thoughts on that in there to deter any judgement or debate on teh online/trad subject ... but it seems like it might happen here as well, based on the tone of your post.

I think this conversation belongs in a separate thread (I don't want to detract from Jim's success), but I'll leave my $.02 here anyway 🙂

As long as prospective students consider institutions like this, they will have little to no motivation to change their own professional standards - Why should they, if people in desperate situations are willing to do whatever it takes to become a doctor? If graduates of the program & professionals who are familiar with the program's standards are saying that a specific program and programs similar to it are a waste of time and money, then it should behoove you to listen to them, and consider alternatives.

Programs like this (unaccredited, mismanaged, allowing students to complete the bulk of req's online) fall in the same category as unpaid postdoctoral internships IMO - If the demand wasn't there, then the supply would dwindle, but unfortunately some students are desperate to become a 'doctor', even when it doesn't make sense. IMO this is a major root of many of the global issues that psychology faces (watering down of the field, internship match crisis, decreased earning potential, limited job mobility, etc).

To my knowledge, there is only one 'for-profit' med school in the US, and it opened five years ago and has faced its own backlash and controversy from the medical community, yet the number of FSPS conferring doctoral degrees in psychology is staggering, and seems to face little resistance.

 

[erg923]

I am in the process of looking for a Doctoral program, and one of the issues I am facing is not being able to quit work

Should I provide my standard line here guys?

 

[Sanman]

Should I provide my standard line here guys?

You can, but I am finishing up my online surgical coursework tomorrow night and my friend is letting me take out his appendix next weekend! I hope he is cool with taking a few whiskey swigs and biting down on a wooden spoon because I decided to skip the online anesthesiology class work (saved myself $2000!).


Congrats Jim! Good luck with everything!

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Should I provide my standard line here guys?

To be fair, it can be possible to work to some degree while in grad school (assuming your program allows it). But yes, holding a true full-time job (which is what's been suggested) in addition to completing grad school is generally out of the cards for most people and at most traditional programs. In all honesty, I don't know that I'd want to attend a program that allowed me to also work full-time, as I just don't know that the training would be rigorous enough. Heck, I went the traditional route myself, and one year into my postdoc I still feel like there's tons more I need to learn before I'm truly ready to go it independently.

I do wonder why psychology in particular seems to pull for the idea that it could be possible to complete a degree while also maintaining an outside career in much the same way that, say, an MBA could, as the question has come up here multiple times in the past (nothing at all against the OP for asking, mind you). The same would generally never be assumed about medical, dental, or pharm school, for example. Or even doctoral study in other fields such as biology, mathematics, or English. Then again, psychology generally has done a pretty horrible job of developing and maintaining adequate minimal training standards.

 

[tpizza01]

Should I provide my standard line here guys?

So, What is your "standard line"?

 

[erg923]

So, What is your "standard line"?

When i hear people complain that they want a doctorate but either don't have the grades/GRE scores, research experience, or are not willing/able to make the obvious sacrifices that everyone else did (ie., not working full time), I will generally respond with the following.

"I haven't seen so much crying since little Johnny's soccer team went 0-12 and he saw the other kids getting trophies. Never fear, the powers that be made sure that when I paid my sons league fees that little Johnny got his trophy too. Doctorates for all!"

 

[tpizza01]

When i hear people complain that they want a doctorate but either don't have the grades/GRE scores, research experience, or are not willing/able to make the obvious sacrifices that everyone else did (ie., not working full time), I will generally respond with the following.

"I haven't seen so much crying since little Johnny's soccer team went 0-12 and he saw the other kids getting trophies. Never fear, the powers that be made sure that when I paid my sons league fees that little Johnny got his trophy too. Doctorates for all!"

Well, I'm definitely not looking for a handout. I'm no stranger to hard work, and I have definitely worked for and earned what I have. I suppose my question though is: Do you hear me complaining? Because I am just looking for options and want to know what others have been through. If I have to work a full time job and somehow fit in full time school, then I am willing to do that - but we all know that is a little unrealistic and would certainly affect my family also. I have no trouble making sacrifices, but please tell the two kids in the house that they won't be able to eat next month. However, the idea has been tossed around the house a bit, but even if I did, it would take a while to build up the back up fund.

On the other hand, I like your standard line and agree with it - as it pertains to the youth of this country - and when I say youth, I mean anyone up to the age of hmmm, we'll say 25, as of today. I think that a majority of them are coddled and are taught that everyone should win, just for trying - if they are taught anything at all. I am not about awarding for participation (well, maybe kindergarten kids).

So, your comment (that I asked for) is definitely comical, but I would say it's applicability is a little off 🙂

 

[tpizza01]

I would agree with that part.

But why say this comment below if you are open to information? What is this comment necessary? Recommendations against online programs are actually based on factual information, but you don't want to hear about it. Many of the people on this forum who are vocal against online doctoral education are licensed psychologists and are involved in hiring people for positions:

I am thus limited, but will say no more to what my choices are limited to because it will attract the regulars on here.

I wasn't going to reply to this post, and just let it go, but I thought it wouldn't be fair to leave you hanging.

Why say that comment? Because I wanted to hear from Jim, and hear Jim's experience. I can see that it didn't happen though. I didn't want to hear about facts, or recommendations about online schooling from the rest of the forum - I could go to another thread for that. I understand that people have a voice on here, but in reading many of the posts, it seems that the voice against online schooling, implies some level of "right" in the matter of education. I can understand that you have a voice, and I am sure yours especially, having recently completed your PhD (congrats), is strong because the experience is probably still fresh in your mind (I know that feeling). I commend you for that, I really do, and I am sure you have much to say for your experience, but again, I wanted to hear from Jim - and his experience. Does that make any sense? I wasn't looking for a fight, I wasn't looking to be a case of assumption, I wasn't looking for any ridicule for having my own voice. Simply put, if you don't like, it, why bother responding? In fact that was the first thought of why I didn't respond to this post - why bother? I don't agree, so let it go. However, I re-read my post and I can see where it might have been better omitted. So, for the record, the word "regulars" was not to single out anyone, but more to deter, detract, avoid, or whatever, the seemingly common debate between trad and online schooling. So, I apologize for misleading you, and I am assuming offending you (if you consider yourself offended).

 

[Pragma]

On the other hand, I like your standard line and agree with it - as it pertains to the youth of this country - and when I say youth, I mean anyone up to the age of hmmm, we'll say 25, as of today. I think that a majority of them are coddled and are taught that everyone should win, just for trying - if they are taught anything at all. I am not about awarding for participation (well, maybe kindergarten kids).

Oh entitlement applies to people over the age of 25 all the time. I think anyone who thinks that they ought to be able to get a doctorate degree while working full time has a severe case of entitlement. Doctoral study requires a high level of focus and reflection. It isn't simply a matter of "working enough."

If you aren't willing to do what it takes to get competent training in the area of doctoral study you are looking into, then I question your intentions. This isn't about making the field work for ME. It is about whether I am a good fit for the FIELD.

 

[Pragma]

By the way OP, congratulations!

 

[futureapppsy2]

Oh entitlement applies to people over the age of 25 all the time. I think anyone who thinks that they ought to be able to get a doctorate degree while working full time has a severe case of entitlement. Doctoral study requires a high level of focus and reflection. It isn't simply a matter of "working enough."

If you aren't willing to do what it takes to get competent training in the area of doctoral study you are looking into, then I question your intentions. This isn't about making the field work for ME. It is about whether I am a good fit for the FIELD.

I agree.

 

[FallenMind]

Congrats!!! May you find much success and fulfillment in the road ahead 🙂