I found a website to check the "Competitiveness" of psych Residencies!

[Caetano-MD]

A big problem in applying to psych residencies is gauging the "competitiveness" of the 179 programs. Nobody at my school could tell me if, for example, UCLA-Harbor is harder to get into than University of Texas-San Antonio.

I found an imperfect--but approximate--way to gauge how hard a given residency is.

www.fmgamerica.com/psychiatry.html

Check the program of your choice's USMLE requirements (approximate) and the PERCENTAGE OF FMG's in the program. It's not a perfect way, but programs with lower step requirements and more FMG's might mean they are the so-called "lower-tiered" programs.

I sprinkled in some of those "lower-tiered" programs into my list of applications as safety schools/back-ups, and sure enough, (some of them) were the first to contact me for interviews.

Give it a look and let me know--good luck to all!!

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[sga430]

A big problem in applying to psych residencies is gauging the "competitiveness" of the 179 programs. Nobody at my school could tell me if, for example, UCLA-Harbor is harder to get into than University of Texas-San Antonio.

I found an imperfect--but approximate--way to gauge how hard a given residency is.

www.fmgamerica.com/psychiatry.html

Check the program of your choice's USMLE requirements (approximate) and the PERCENTAGE OF FMG's in the program. It's not a perfect way, but programs with lower step requirements and more FMG's might mean they are the so-called "lower-tiered" programs.

I sprinkled in some of those "lower-tiered" programs into my list of applications as safety schools/back-ups, and sure enough, (some of them) were the first to contact me for interviews.

Give it a look and let me know--good luck to all!!

i have seen the exact same table last year. i think it may be outdated. it is probably incomplete and maybe even inaccurate but i use it all the time. so far the best i have seen is maybe the residentcafe.com list. they have a free sample of minnesota.

img % is generally a good way to gauge the competiveness but i would assume there r regional variations. for example florida only has 3 psych programs yet is 1 of the top 5 populous states. there may be a lot of local floridian grads going for 3 programs. nyc has more residencies itself than CA probably. (also CA requires the CA PTAL letter which may dissuade a lot of IMGs.) so just use the above list as a general guide.

i feel after this season is over i think i can come up with a better list since i applied to pretty much every program. i just have to publish (or possible sell) the list of invites i got. this would make things easy.

 

[Caetano-MD]

Does anyone else know a way to get a handle on competitiveness-ranking of psych residencies? Do you know of any book/website/list/oracle/divining-rod that can give a lost soul like me an inkling? Please share (and much success to all!)...

 

[whopper]

This site has been so inundated with people scared of the match process, that several of the questions already answered are pushed out of the way. The newer users don't do searches of the old stuff. That's not meant to be directed as a criticism of the newer people-the match process can be worrisome, but it is kinda frustrating for me to answer the same question several times.

No entity that I know of has gauged programs in a good manner. The only ones I know of rated programs based on how much research funds they obtained from the gov--which is a piss poor method. Several great programs don't do much research.

According to the program director at LIJ-the #1 factor that made a resident go to a program really was simply the location. Most residents know they may settle in the area they do residency, and also want to do it in an area close to friends & family.

I already answered this question several times in other threads-rate programs based on patient diversity, clinical experience, hours, pay, quality of life in the program and the area, quality of teaching, and only if you are very interested in research--research.

Too many medical students are in medical student mode-trying to get into the top program, the highest grades, in short what is best only on paper. Residency is a different ballgame. If you pick the right program, you'll get a program where you can actually have a life, get a good education and be happy. If going to a program which may be a few places higher because some group rated it higher because it received more research funds-you'll be seriously hurting your quality of life for 4 years.

The only way to figure out if the program you want to go into fits the criteria I mentioned is to get the scoop by asking people at the program (under the table) what the program is like, or if you worked at that program. Trust me, every program will give you the BS talk about how great they are. If they give you an interview, you're like the star quarterback that they give the steak dinner. They'll feed you what you want to hear, but several of the same programs will treat you like a slave once you're in and feed you gruel.

In my own program--I work 9-5, the call schedule is fairly easy, and you get to go home at 10pm if you're on call. Residents from 2nd year on can earn about another $500 a month by carrying a restraint beeper where you're only beeped about once every few months. The food is free and the food is pretty good. The teaching is top notch, we only really work 3.5 days of the week (1.5 days are spent in protected lecture time) and there is no pimping. All the residents I know of get into the fellowships they want to get into, even the residents that aren't as competitive. This program is rated low on the list I mentioned because we don't do much research. I know I'm happier here, than I would be in several other "higher" programs such as Vanderbilt--which if you checked in other threads is supposedly in shambles.


If you want to gauge your success using some BS list some group made that is not based at all on reality-you're only hurting yourself.

 

[maranatha]

Thanks, whopper, for the advice. yes, i've read this from you before, but it is sound advice and well worth being reminded of.

 

[Hurricane]

Great advice from whopper.

I'd also like to add:

The vast majority of psych applicants match, so chill. They key is to find a program you'll be happy at. Here is my advice for doing this with the least amount anxiety...

By the time you get to the point where you are thinking about what programs to apply to, there's not much you can do to "improve" your application, so there is no point obsessing over it. Apply to schools in a range of perceived competitiveness, and don't apply to any programs in a location where you'd hate to live. Be sure to include your dream programs, because the way ERAS/NRMP is set up, you have nothing to lose but money.

Then it's out of your hands so sit back and let the interviews roll in. Rank programs that you think you'll be happy at and will further your career goals. Everyone has different career goals (academics vs community vs private etc) and different personal preferences, so everyone's "best fit" is going to be different; therefore don't obesses about what your friend with totally different interests has to say about a program you're leaning towards. Rank them in the order you'd like, and don't factor in whether you think the program will rank you highly, because the match alogorithm doesn't care. Send thank you notes because it's the polite thing to do rather than to kiss ass and affect your ranking, and don't obsess over them. Go on second visits if you can't decide a couple programs, but don't go because you think you have to in order to be ranked. Then sit back and wait for match day, because again, it's out of your hands.

Good luck everybody!

 

[whopper]

One last thing, I remember how frustrating and worrisome the match process was. I offered to take phone calls if anyone wanted some talk advice. IF anyone wants that advice call me. Drop me a PM and we can set up a private call.

 

[Caetano-MD]

One last thing, I remember how frustrating and worrisome the match process was. I offered to take phone calls if anyone wanted some talk advice. IF anyone wants that advice call me. Drop me a PM and we can set up a private call.

Dude, you are VERY COOL to offer to talk to people--your advice as well seems excellent and although I have only been to one interview so far, I will take it to heart.

Where were you when I went to my Advisor for Residency Advice???

Cheers mate...

 

[sga430]

This site has been so inundated with people scared of the match process, that several of the questions already answered are pushed out of the way. The newer users don't do searches of the old stuff. That's not meant to be directed as a criticism of the newer people-the match process can be worrisome, but it is kinda frustrating for me to answer the same question several times.

No entity that I know of has gauged programs in a good manner. The only ones I know of rated programs based on how much research funds they obtained from the gov--which is a piss poor method. Several great programs don't do much research.

According to the program director at LIJ-the #1 factor that made a resident go to a program really was simply the location. Most residents know they may settle in the area they do residency, and also want to do it in an area close to friends & family.

I already answered this question several times in other threads-rate programs based on patient diversity, clinical experience, hours, pay, quality of life in the program and the area, quality of teaching, and only if you are very interested in research--research.

Too many medical students are in medical student mode-trying to get into the top program, the highest grades, in short what is best only on paper. Residency is a different ballgame. If you pick the right program, you'll get a program where you can actually have a life, get a good education and be happy. If going to a program which may be a few places higher because some group rated it higher because it received more research funds-you'll be seriously hurting your quality of life for 4 years.

The only way to figure out if the program you want to go into fits the criteria I mentioned is to get the scoop by asking people at the program (under the table) what the program is like, or if you worked at that program. Trust me, every program will give you the BS talk about how great they are. If they give you an interview, you're like the star quarterback that they give the steak dinner. They'll feed you what you want to hear, but several of the same programs will treat you like a slave once you're in and feed you gruel.

In my own program--I work 9-5, the call schedule is fairly easy, and you get to go home at 10pm if you're on call. Residents from 2nd year on can earn about another $500 a month by carrying a restraint beeper where you're only beeped about once every few months. The food is free and the food is pretty good. The teaching is top notch, we only really work 3.5 days of the week (1.5 days are spent in protected lecture time) and there is no pimping. All the residents I know of get into the fellowships they want to get into, even the residents that aren't as competitive. This program is rated low on the list I mentioned because we don't do much research. I know I'm happier here, than I would be in several other "higher" programs such as Vanderbilt--which if you checked in other threads is supposedly in shambles.


If you want to gauge your success using some BS list some group made that is not based at all on reality-you're only hurting yourself.

what u write is tru but may not be relevant to a lot of the less competetive IMG applicants who do not have much $$ and have retaken the usmle a few times. they can not afford to apply and iv at highly ranked progs which will never rank them. many amgs may sue this table to apply only to top progs. however 50% of the applicants (who are IMGs) will be applying to only bottom tier programs. they may even apply to family for back up. they dont care about "psychotherapy" and "protected didactics." they just want a program so they dont go broke. i probably dont totally fall into this category. i have interviewed at progs which have only imgs with 0 amgs.

since i may be considered to be a middle tier candidate i am looking for much of the same things as amgs (also i can afford to with 33 ivs. i almost told an interviewer recently i had 33 ivs when he commented on my lack of competiveness! his prog will be ranked lower by methan he would rank me.)

anyhow not sure if what i said was relevant but these ranking list do serve a decent purpose for IMGs not wanting to be unmatched and AMGs going into research.

 

[sga430]

Great advice from whopper.

I'd also like to add:

The vast majority of psych applicants match, so chill. They key is to find a program you'll be happy at. Here is my advice for doing this with the least amount anxiety...

By the time you get to the point where you are thinking about what programs to apply to, there's not much you can do to "improve" your application, so there is no point obsessing over it. Apply to schools in a range of perceived competitiveness, and don't apply to any programs in a location where you'd hate to live. Be sure to include your dream programs, because the way ERAS/NRMP is set up, you have nothing to lose but money.

Then it's out of your hands so sit back and let the interviews roll in. Rank programs that you think you'll be happy at and will further your career goals. Everyone has different career goals (academics vs community vs private etc) and different personal preferences, so everyone's "best fit" is going to be different; therefore don't obesses about what your friend with totally different interests has to say about a program you're leaning towards. Rank them in the order you'd like, and don't factor in whether you think the program will rank you highly, because the match alogorithm doesn't care. Send thank you notes because it's the polite thing to do rather than to kiss ass and affect your ranking, and don't obsess over them. Go on second visits if you can't decide a couple programs, but don't go because you think you have to in order to be ranked. Then sit back and wait for match day, because again, it's out of your hands.

Good luck everybody!

i agree with you regarding the algorythm. too many people dont understand it. it is extremely rare where there is a tie situation or something perhaps when it may not work the way it should i heard but generally u r supposed to rank them how u like them. even in the odd scenario, i can not see how it would make sense to rank ur least desirable 1. u will get univ of crapville for sure. if u rank it last and rank others first u may not get univ crapville not because u will be unmatched but because u get something better. it is not to hard to understand this concept. this is the whole purpose of the match. back in the 50s or so, getting a residency was like getting a college. the match works out much better in terms of getting u a better program and in terms of a prog getting a better applicant. u have to visualize it workin on both ends for it to make sense. (go to scutwork for a more thotough explaination.)

 

[whopper]

SGA (asked this before but did you go to SGU)?

I am an IMG.

You are right. There will be people who really will need to fight just to get in. The advice I gave was meant to be digested for most of the medstudents.

I went to a lecture as a medstudent, that was conducted by a teaching doctor from Columbia. I had some discussions with him, and he said he was very impressed by myself. He even suggested I apply to Columbia and he'd remember my name.

Then----I told him I was from SGU. Well it was a moment that felt like an hour. The big fat smile on his face turned to a neutral, flat look. He then said, oh, well we don't usually consider IMGs, however look us up in a few years if you want to go into a fellowship.

OUCH.

Anyways, even as an IMG, I had several interviews and several programs offering me contracts before the match. I talked to a few medstudents on the forum who are really scared of the match process, and their grades & USMLE scores were better than mine.

The only people I've seen who did not have a good chance of getting into a program were non US citizens who did not speak English fluently. I've seen people fail Step I & or II multiple times and still get several interviews in psychiatry, so long as they applied to an abundant number of programs.

Several top level programs will prejudice themselves against IMGs. However there is still a bountiful amount of good programs out there that IMGs can get into. The IMG prejudice is far less prevalent in psychiatry than the other fields of medicine.

 

[sga430]

hey whopper,

i went to med school out in the old country. (somewhere in asia. i have been gaining nortoriety with other people recognizing me on the iv circuit. a lil anonymity would do me no harm.) of course IMGs can get into psych. 50% (formerly 65%) of all psych residents r IMGs. without IMGs, i cant imagine where the mental health of america would be.

 

[Adam_K]

hey whopper,

i went to med school out in the old country. (somewhere in asia. i have been gaining nortoriety with other people recognizing me on the iv circuit. a lil anonymity would do me no harm.) of course IMGs can get into psych. 50% (formerly 65%) of all psych residents r IMGs. without IMGs, i cant imagine where the mental health of america would be.

Actually it is even lower than that: 37.4%

http://www.ama-assn.org/vapp/freida/spcstsc/0,1238,400,00.html

I think that this is part of the perception problem for IMGs. Psych has such a long standing reputation as being IMG friendly from the past and this is changing steadily. A hidden factoid on that page may reveal why. 52.5% of residents are now female. Psych may be therefore becoming more popular with US grads as a lifestyle residency.

 

[Caetano-MD]

Actually it is even lower than that: 37.4%

http://www.ama-assn.org/vapp/freida/spcstsc/0,1238,400,00.html

I think that this is part of the perception problem for IMGs. Psych has such a long standing reputation as being IMG friendly from the past and this is changing steadily. A hidden factoid on that page may reveal why. 52.5% of residents are now female. Psych may be therefore becoming more popular with US grads as a lifestyle residency.

A "lifestyle residency"? Is that like PMR (Plenty of Money and Relaxation)??? I'll tell you, brother, I need a lifestyle...

Is psych considered Plenty of Money and Relaxation?

Curiosity piqued...

 

[Anasazi23]

Actually it is even lower than that: 37.4%

http://www.ama-assn.org/vapp/freida/spcstsc/0,1238,400,00.html

I think that this is part of the perception problem for IMGs. Psych has such a long standing reputation as being IMG friendly from the past and this is changing steadily. A hidden factoid on that page may reveal why. 52.5% of residents are now female. Psych may be therefore becoming more popular with US grads as a lifestyle residency.

I've been saying this for years. Our Gen-x and y cohorts don't want to work 100 hrs/week and not see their kids grow up. They (we) want money, lifestyle, and more control of our professional lives. So, the lifestyle specialties are picking up, and the hardcore residencies have taken a hit overall compared to years ago.

I said it would be a matter of time before people discovered disciplines like psych, neuro, rad onc, PM&R, etc, that payed decent to well, and had good lifestyles.

 

[Adam_K]

I've been saying this for years. Our Gen-x and y cohorts don't want to work 100 hrs/week and not see their kids grow up. They (we) want money, lifestyle, and more control of our professional lives. So, the lifestyle specialties are picking up, and the hardcore residencies have taken a hit overall compared to years ago.

I said it would be a matter of time before people discovered disciplines like psych, neuro, rad onc, PM&R, etc, that payed decent to well, and had good lifestyles.

Not the reason, I'm interested in psychiatry, but I have to admit that call schedules, time off and pay at individual psych programs will figure prominently in my ROL.