I hate being a California resident

[TheBoneDoctah]

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All of it reeks of entitlement? It actually would be less presumptuous if you were speaking on California med schools solely. But no, you want taxpayers from different states to subsidize your education. I see what you're saying about best candidates, but your below average stats on a national level puts you out of that conversation. Further, there is a lot more to an applicant than stats. Med schools want their applicants to stay in state to practice and there's a greater chance someone IS will do so.

Do you know what entitlement means? And read what I just wrote to WilburCobb. I am NOT saying that the taxpayers should have to pay my education. But the option to be able to relocate and start paying taxes to the state after the education is something that would be more fair. Also, I am willing to pay the extra 30k that OOS students have to pay at these schools.

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

@NontradCA

Also, my stats aren't THAT far below the average. My MCAT is average at most schools and above the average of MANY state schools. I also was an undergrad from 2006-2011 because I had a change in my career choice. My GPA went from 2.5 after 3 years of school to almost 3.4 with a 3.75 average at UCLA the last few years.

 

[WillburCobb]

Do you know what entitlement means? And read what I just wrote to WilburCobb. I am NOT saying that the taxpayers should have to pay my education. But the option to be able to relocate and start paying taxes to the state after the education is something that would be more fair. Also, I am willing to pay the extra 30k that OOS students have to pay at these schools.

That would very likely create a revolving door of newly minted physicians in many locations, which would not necessarily be a good thing.

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

That would very likely create a revolving door of newly minted physicians in many locations, which would not necessarily be a good thing.

What do you mean?

 

[WillburCobb]

What do you mean?

After they complete their X number of required years they move back to where they have family, grew-up, a more desirable location, etc. They're then replaced by a less experienced physician and pts. lose continuity of care.

 

[mrh125]

CO is at 16.4%. So not as bad as Florida but definitely not great.

university of Colorado is so awesome you got CA residents like me applying though, plus your state is the home of south park. can't complain much about that

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

After they complete their X number of required years they move back to where they have family, grew-up, a more desirable location, etc. They're then replaced by a less experienced physician and pts. lose continuity of care.

People move all the time though. I'm sure many people, after 10 years and becoming established, would settle down in the states they went to school in. Even if you are only open to students within your state, what is going to keep them there once they move away to residency?

 

[drnk12]

Come to Ontario, Canada and you will wish you were from California.

 

[WillburCobb]

People move all the time though. I'm sure many people, after 10 years and becoming established, would settle down in the states they went to school in. Even if you are only open to students within your state, what is going to keep them there once they move away to residency?

Family, ties to the area, job opportunities. My school only has 4 residency programs that are pretty small and crappy, so very few grads stay here for residency, yet many of them come back following residency and practice here. Many of the people who go through my schools residency programs actually end up leaving the state.

 

[mrh125]

Family, ties to the area, job opportunities. My school only has 4 residency programs that are pretty small and crappy, so very few grads stay here for residency, yet many of them come back following residency and practice here. Many of the people who go through my schools residency programs actually end up leaving the state.

North dakota? what are the odds like for OOS residency programs for you? If your school prepares you well for them and your step 1 scores are solid that's good and helpful. Also the thing I hear is that your residency program location often times influences where you end up practicing, how does this affect those who end up coming back?

 

[zzxxzz]

Ok, so as I said in previous posts, I'm from Ohio. Despite being a big state, Ohio has a huge physician shortage. Southeast Ohio is generally viewed as the most underserved area of the nation. We have a ton of public heath issues that are tearing apart this state.

Ohio is trying to educate as many Ohio natives to be physicians as possible, so that some of these problems can be combated. No one's going to believe some Californian is going to stay here long-term. We have something called "snow everywhere." There's no sunshine for 5 months of the year. We're fully aware that many East/West coasters think all 11.5 million of us are tobacco-chewing corn farmers. If the ultimate goal of public medical schools is to train physicians who will remain in-state, why accept any Californians?

Consider yourself lucky that OOS schools will even consider your application.

 

[claduva94]

university of Colorado is so awesome you got CA residents like me applying though, plus your state is the home of south park. can't complain much about that

Oh there are so many better things than that 😉 I agree. The school is fantastic. Top choice. But I'd be more comfortable with more state schools...

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

Ok, so as I said in previous posts, I'm from Ohio. Despite being a big state, Ohio has a huge physician shortage. Southeast Ohio is generally viewed as the most underserved area of the nation. We have a ton of public heath issues that are tearing apart this state.

Ohio is trying to educate as many Ohio natives to be physicians as possible, so that some of these problems can be combated. No one's going to believe some Californian is going to stay here long-term. We have something called "snow everywhere." There's no sunshine for 5 months of the year. We're fully aware that many East/West coasters think all 11.5 million of us are tobacco-chewing corn farmers. If the ultimate goal of public medical schools is to train physicians who will remain in-state, why accept any Californians?

Consider yourself lucky that OOS schools will even consider your application.

What if the applicant was from another snowy state?

 

[mrh125]

Oh there are so many better things than that 😉 I agree. The school is fantastic. Top choice. But I'd be more comfortable with more state schools...

I agree with you 100%. 1 state school is a bit nerve-wracking. Hell even with more than 5 state schools in CA I wish there were more.

 

[WillburCobb]

North dakota? what are the odds like for OOS residency programs for you? If your school prepares you well for them and your step 1 scores are solid that's good and helpful.

Not sure what you mean by odds for OOS residency programs, but IMO UND does fine in the match, in that the vast majority of students end-up with their 1st or 2nd choice. Very few end up end up matching at their 3rd or lower ranked programs. UND grads also have a good reputation at a number of decent programs in various specialties.

Also the thing I hear is that your residency program location often times influences where you end up practicing, how does this affect those who end up coming back?

It doesn't really affect them, they come back because of ties to the area. That plus the low cost of living here (slowly rising because the oil, but still pretty good) plus higher salaries than many other places is also an incentive for many to return. Also, the hospital systems here actively recruit UND students after the match to sign contracts saying they'll come back and practice for that hospital/system for X number of years in exchange for stipends during residency or help paying back loans.

 

[mrh125]

Not sure what you mean by odds for OOS residency programs, but IMO UND does fine in the match, in that the vast majority of students end-up with their 1st or 2nd choice. Very few end up end up matching at their 3rd or lower ranked programs. UND grads also have a good reputation at a number of decent programs in various specialties.



It doesn't really affect them, they come back because of ties to the area. That plus the low cost of living here (slowly rising because the oil, but still pretty good) plus higher salaries than many other places is also an incentive for many to return. Also, the hospital systems here actively recruit UND students after the match to sign contracts saying they'll come back and practice for that hospital/system for X number of years in exchange for stipends during residency or help paying back loans.

By odds for OOS residency I meant how difficult it is for you to get into OOS programs, for example, a parallel would be how CA students have difficulty getting into OOS medical schools dep. on their stats? Good info you've got there either. Thanks for your response 🙂.

 

[godawg300]

That's why I said that the schools should have a contract with the student that if they want to attend their school, then they would have to give the state 5-10 years of medical training, OR become a resident. I just believe that the option should be there. If the student doesn't want to stay in that state, then they shouldn't be allowed in. However, what if I WANTED to live in New Mexico? What if I actually wanted to go to school there, and then live there?

Pretty easy. Move there, stay there for 1-2 years, become a resident and then apply to med school ? What's the problem?

 

[WillburCobb]

By odds for OOS residency I meant how difficult it is for you to get into OOS programs, for example, a parallel would be how CA students have difficulty getting into OOS medical schools dep. on their stats? Good info you've got there either. Thanks for your response 🙂.

There isn't state bias when it comes to applying for residency programs. That's all stats, letters, how you interview and fit in at that program, and debatably school prestige.

 

[WillburCobb]

Pretty easy. Move there, stay there for 1-2 years, become a resident and then apply to med school ? What's the problem?

This won't work too well and adcoms can see through it. For example, even if you've been a resident of my state (ND) for 5+ years you're still at disadvantage compared to those who grew-up here and will need much more competitive stats to get an ii.

 

[mrh125]

There isn't state bias when it comes to applying for residency programs. That's all stats, letters, how you interview and fit in at that program, and debatably school prestige.

good to know. that's very interesting info.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

Any Tennessee residents care to chime in?! How's Memphis looking these days?!

 

[solitarius]

I actually drove through/past North Dakota recently and was pleasantly surprised. The freeway was much better maintained than in Montana or Minnesota, and the small towns looked impeccably neat and organized. I made a pit stop at Fargo, which is comparably better than the typical Midwestern small city. Not on the level of Madison, WI, but not too bad.

 

[WillburCobb]

I actually drove through/past North Dakota recently and was pleasantly surprised. The freeway was much better maintained than in Montana or Minnesota, and the small towns looked impeccably neat and organized. I made a pit stop at Fargo, which is comparably better than the typical Midwestern small city. Not on the level of Madison, WI, but not too bad.

The state puts a good chuck of money into the annual budget for highway maintenance every year. The drive from Montana to Bismarck isn't bad, but the stretch between Bismarck and Fargo is just awful. Fargo isn't too bad it's just so damn flat and windy here, I miss being in the west/central part of ND where there's actually scenery and things to do other than drink.

 

[NontradCA]

Ok, so as I said in previous posts, I'm from Ohio. Despite being a big state, Ohio has a huge physician shortage. Southeast Ohio is generally viewed as the most underserved area of the nation. We have a ton of public heath issues that are tearing apart this state.

Ohio is trying to educate as many Ohio natives to be physicians as possible, so that some of these problems can be combated. No one's going to believe some Californian is going to stay here long-term. We have something called "snow everywhere." There's no sunshine for 5 months of the year. We're fully aware that many East/West coasters think all 11.5 million of us are tobacco-chewing corn farmers. If the ultimate goal of public medical schools is to train physicians who will remain in-state, why accept any Californians?

Consider yourself lucky that OOS schools will even consider your application.

I'm a CA guy in Ohio because I think the education is great. From what I understand a lot of the IS students will leave after graduation. But yea, I feel extremely lucky considering I'm 5% of the class and snagged a scholarship. The OSU seems to be very OOS friendly though.

 

[Vice Admiral Zoro]

I hate being an asian and a california resident!

 

[Rainbow Zebra]

I LOVE being an Ohio resident right now. Seven medical schools in-state, lots in contiguous states, many with low cutoffs.

Have a premed friend who moved to Ohio awhile ago just to get residency before applying. Looks like a good move.

OP, you should apply several Ohio schools. There aren't enough IS students to fill the seats. Once you get used to the weather, it's a nice state.

Michigan is pretty sweet too!! Lots of schools. Florida and New York State are not to bad either. And if you can get Texas residency, you won the lottery.

 

[Rainbow Zebra]

I'm a CA guy in Ohio because I think the education is great. From what I understand a lot of the IS students will leave after graduation. But yea, I feel extremely lucky considering I'm 5% of the class and snagged a scholarship. The OSU seems to be very OOS friendly though.

And you can get IS tuition after 1 year. Good deal, was ready to become a Buckeye, but had to pass that one up for U of M acceptance as instate.

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

Glad this thread got bumped from 2 years ago haha

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

Glad this thread got bumped from 2 years ago haha

Are you at a California school?

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

Are you at a California school?

No.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

 

[summergirl]

Try being Canadian. At least you have the beautiful sunshine to counterbalance the rejections while our dreams are being piled under 10 feet of snow.

 

[Mwooster]

Is being a CA resident tough when applying to MD schools? Yeah.

However, by in-state (IS) matriculation %, Washington, Utah, and Maryland are very tough as well, with even lower %'s than CA's

 

[KungFuPanda123]

Is being a CA resident tough when applying to MD schools? Yeah.

However, by in-state (IS) matriculation %, Washington, Utah, and Maryland are very tough as well, with even lower %'s than CA's

They are definitely not easy to get into, but it is nice that they explicitly state that they give higher priority for acceptance to in-state residents than out of state residents.

Contrast this to schools like UCLA that state, "No preference is given to state of residence. However many applicants come from California. Acceptees from California are more likely to matriculate at UCLA. Out of 175 freshman, 85 percent were from California."

Similarly, UCI answers the question of "Does the School of Medicine give preference to California residents?" with: "No. The admissions committee uses the same criteria to evaluate applicants whether they are in-state or out-of-state residents."

Although UCSF doesn't state anything on their website explicitly answering the question of whether or not they give in-state preference, their numbers are pretty similar to UCLA.

Yes, the numbers show a significantly higher % of people from California receiving interviews/acceptances, but it definitely has to make you think when a third of California public schools explicitly state that they don't give preference. What do they have to gain from stating this if it's not true? And honestly, UCSF is pretty weak on the in-state preference as well.

When it comes to in-state preference, the only ones who are very strong with their in-state bias are UC Riverside and UC Davis. UCSD gives some in-state bias, but they do accept a very sizable chunk of oos students. UCLA and UCI both accept a decent number of oos students and also explicitly state on their sites that they give no preference on in-state or out-of-state. UCSF does not state anything officially, but according to their numbers, they really don't mind oos much more than a school like Maryland does.

------

When you compare population size and the % of population interested in pursuing medicine between different states, there is no place that is both relatively and absolutely higher in both categories than California. It's especially not helpful when you consider the fact that many of California's public schools are extremely lenient to out of staters.

 

[Mwooster]

They are definitely not easy to get into, but it is nice that they explicitly state that they give higher priority for acceptance to in-state residents than out of state residents.

Contrast this to schools like UCLA that state, "No preference is given to state of residence. However many applicants come from California. Acceptees from California are more likely to matriculate at UCLA. Out of 175 freshman, 85 percent were from California."

Similarly, UCI answers the question of "Does the School of Medicine give preference to California residents?" with: "No. The admissions committee uses the same criteria to evaluate applicants whether they are in-state or out-of-state residents."

Although UCSF doesn't state anything on their website explicitly answering the question of whether or not they give in-state preference, their numbers are pretty similar to UCLA.

Yes, the numbers show a significantly higher % of people from California receiving interviews/acceptances, but it definitely has to make you think when a third of California public schools explicitly state that they don't give preference. What do they have to gain from stating this if it's not true? And honestly, UCSF is pretty weak on the in-state preference as well.

When it comes to in-state preference, the only ones who are very strong with their in-state bias are UC Riverside and UC Davis. UCSD gives some in-state bias, but they do accept a very sizable chunk of oos students. UCLA and UCI both accept a decent number of oos students and also explicitly state on their sites that they give no preference on in-state or out-of-state. UCSF does not state anything officially, but according to their numbers, they really don't mind oos much more than a school like Maryland does.

------

When you compare population size and the % of population interested in pursuing medicine between different states, there is no place that is both relatively and absolutely higher in both categories than California. It's especially not helpful when you consider the fact that many of California's public schools are extremely lenient to out of staters.

The pt I was trying to make is that yes, everyone knows a CA applicant's difficult road, but other states, especially MD, has difficulties not many people know about

Not at the UMDSOM for IS favoritism during the review process. Every year 25% of UMD's matriculants are OOS. While a CA resident has so many schools to choose from, for a MD resident, UMD is the only state school available. Essentially, you have over 1,000 applicants every yr who are MD residents fighting for 120 seats out of 160 every year. For CA, every year you have about 6,000 applicants who are CA residents, but CA has Davis, UCI, UCSD, UCSF, UCLA, Riverside for public state schools, not to mention private school options such as USC Keck who accepts roughly 140/180 IS or Loma Linda who accepts 75/150 IS.

I'd not say UCI accepts a decent # of OOS students when roughly 95% are IS.

 

[summergirl]

An adcom wants a diverse program, so of course many more of the black applicants with 3.3/27 will get picked over some of the 3.3/27 asians because the other asian applicants on average have much stronger number and a similar stories. Medical school is not a reward for applicants with the highest gpa and mcat. A large majority of minority applicants grow up with disadvantaged back grounds. Disadvantage background breeds humble and interesting people and not just high mcat scoring robots. Theres more to being a doctor than just having the highest mcat and step 1 score.

And how are Asians not included in this category? You do know Asians are visible minorities right?
Stop stereotyping Asians into "robots". They are not robots. They are people. Growing up in a disadvantaged background make Asians humble and interesting as well. Stop trying to make your narrow view of an ethnicity sound like anything remotely close to the truth.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

And how are Asians not included in this category? You do know Asians are visible minorities right?
Stop stereotyping Asians into "robots". They are not robots. They are people. Growing up in a disadvantaged background make Asians humble and interesting as well. Stop trying to make your narrow view of an ethnicity sound like anything remotely close to the truth.

It looks like you're talking to the abyss. That post is from 2014.

 

[summergirl]

It looks like you're talking to the abyss. That post is from 2014.

The point is still valid. Asian is still as much of a visible minority today as they were in 2014 and they definitely did not transform into robots between 2014 and now.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

The point is still valid.

Not saying it isn't, but iirc, listener23 was notorious for making asinine posts when he was active.