ucla2134

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I sincerely apologize for my original post. At the time, I was under tremendous stress, and I felt that I had nobody else I could turn to. I realize SDN was not the best venue to post my feelings. I did not truly mean what I posted, those were words that were posted when I was not thinking very clearly, and honestly, when I was feeling very down.

I would like to apologize to my classmates and to my school. I'm actually honored and grateful to be here, and I am very thankful to be surrounded by supportive faculty and classmates.

I did not mean to offend anybody, and if I have offended anybody personally I would like to sincerely apologize.
 
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dentalWorks

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Sorry to hear about your troubles. I've interviewed at 5 schools so far (michigan, detroit mercy, buffalo, temple, and nova) and I didn't sense any ULTRA competitiveness from the students.... everyone was really friendly.... or maybe... they were just hiding it real well hahaha

Listen, I can't tell you I know what your going through cause I really don't, but just keep your chin up and push through it. 4 years isn't that long if you think about it

Good luck to you
 

redchesus

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Well this doesn't bode well, lol, UCSF is one of my top choices.

But the vibe I was getting at all of my interviews was that EVERYONE HATED first and second year. So I bet you'll look back on this your 3rd year, laugh at how terrible it was, and breathe a sigh of relief.
 
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Studentpredent

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bro, one's dental school experience is directly correlated with the philosophy of the school and composition of its students. SF, being a top notch school, draws top applicants who are competitive in nature. It doesnt surprise me that everyone in the program wants to specialize, which only adds to the competition. At the end of the day, you really get what you pay for (private schools will take care of you). With that said, form a solid support network. You say that ppl get into cliques. Form your own clique! GL
 

John Durian

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Hm, the students seemed really chill at UCSF when I interviewed. Doesn't change the fact that it's still my top choice, but damn...
 

hsia2

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haha :p
you should have came to Michigan then, I know who you are :p
same here, extremely tough the first year,
getting bombarded by exam after exam
you will survive, don't worry, just get used to it after awhile
I found that my classmates are extremely friendly
this is also the reason why Michigan has a tough interview system
The school wants to make sure that people fit with each other well
minimize competition, etc
 
Jun 21, 2010
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i heard that a lot about UCSF's atmosphere, which is why i didn't apply there. It's not worth going anywhere if you hate it every day.
 

Montserrat

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I get that it's probably the stress talking ... but isn't UCSF as a whole known as one heck of a research institution ? Throw in the famous researchers at your school and all their discoveries, and you get a school with a focus in evidence based dentistry. More than other schools that throw that catch phrase around, your school actually walks the walk because of it's history.

About head and neck - just be glad you don't have to do whole body cadavers. And gunners are everywhere man. And no, it's not just you. They make a lot of us look bad. But hey, I'm sure San Francisco is nicer than Washington Heights. That's one thing to be thankful about.
 
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hopefullyadent

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^
evidenced-based healthcare is the worst thing ever..lol im amazzed u guys think it is good..i see they have brainwashed u dental students well

but no i can agree with the OP..the kids at UCs try to act like they are chill..but deep down are the most competitive ppl who will do anything to screw ur grade..they also lie about how much they study
 

yappy

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Yeah - evidence based medicine is terrible. I've been just fine doing what my "healer" tells me... for every step forward I walk, I walk backward an equal amount of steps; that way I never age! except when it's cold outside. I never go out into the cold because everyone knows that cold temperature causes "the cold".

^
evidenced-based healthcare is the worst thing ever..lol im amazzed u guys think it is good..i see they have brainwashed u dental students well
 

hopefullyadent

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you're obviously trying to blow up what i said in some exaggerated proportion..oh well i will say the MAJORITY OF dentists/doctors i have talked to do not like evidenced based healthcare....
 

dentalWorks

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you're obviously trying to blow up what i said in some exaggerated proportion..oh well i will say the MAJORITY OF dentists/doctors i have talked to do not like evidenced based healthcare....
I think your combining healthcare policy to healthcare science.

most science we study today, was initially brought about from simple evidence based cases hundreds/thousands of years ago.

healthcare policy on the other hand, haha, yes, evidence based healthcare policy making can be a problem. "Oh look, mid-level providers were great in new zealand back in the 1920s and 1930s, they must be good in the USA today... LETS USE THEM"... just an example
 

yappy

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Ahh, I see. You were making a political statement not a scientific/clinical one. My point was that for every therapy or intervention there must be scientific support that the said therapy leads to a better outcome for the patient.
A few years ago this was done by looking at what ratio of compressions would best perfuse the tissues during cardiac arrest. It was done by both an outcome and physiological study over several years that looked at how many compressions it took to get the velocity of blood to an appropriate level for perfusion. This lead to the 30/2 ratio we have today & is heading toward a 100/1 because we're finding out lay people are bad at airway management.

This, to me, is a an example of evidence based medicine. Treatments guided by science & outcomes. I honestly dont know what "evidenced based healthcare" is?

Sorry to misunderstand you.
 
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SugarNaCl

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I'm going to be honest with you... There were MANY times during my first 2 years that I thought I had made a huge mistake. I also thought that because of the cost, there was no way out and I was stuck. I didn't handle that very well (details I won't get into). I spent 2nd semester of 1st year sick much of the time because of all of the back to back exams. There were nights, that I entertained some pretty negative ideas.

When I got into clinic, things got both better and worse. I LOVED interacting with patients and I LOVED the work... but I was stressed beyond belief because of having to perform at such a high rate and all the pressure I was putting on myself. Scheduling was difficult, faculty at times were difficult, the work was difficult and to be honest dental school PERIOD was VERY difficult. I often wonder if I had known what I would have to go through, if I would have put myself through that.

Finally, being a 4th year student... I can see that light at the end of the tunnel. I have learned so much and become a better person through the experience. I have learned how to confront faculty in a polite way when they do something I don't like. I have learned how to win my patients' hearts and I have learned that each individual experience that I agonize over is small in the grand scheme of things.

You will do just fine. Keep your head up and don't take things too personally. You can do this and it all will be worth it when you have that degree in your hands.

Take Care.
 

dl9006

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yea i feel you.

school's getting depressing.
exam after exam and some of the courses are a waste of time.
i feel like im living in the library and the librarians probably recognize me now...

but i won't look back considering the effort and $$$ it took to get to this point.

just have to keep a strong will and pull through.
first semester is already almost over and for me, it flew by really quickly.

before you know it, you'll be a dentist in 4 yrs!

cheer up!
 

txlonghorn

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Dang! I saw your predents stats and you look like a bright kid. I wonder what kind of hell I will be in once I enter dschool. Lol
 

SeattleRDH

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Ahh, I see. You were making a political statement not a scientific/clinical one. My point was that for every therapy or intervention there must be scientific support that the said therapy leads to a better outcome for the patient.
A few years ago this was done by looking at what ratio of compressions would best perfuse the tissues during cardiac arrest. It was done by both an outcome and physiological study over several years that looked at how many compressions it took to get the velocity of blood to an appropriate level for perfusion. This lead to the 30/2 ratio we have today & is heading toward a 100/1 because we're finding out lay people are bad at airway management.

This, to me, is a an example of evidence based medicine. Treatments guided by science & outcomes. I honestly dont know what "evidenced based healthcare" is?

Sorry to misunderstand you.
No. Don't apologize. You were right. Evidence-based practice is exactly what you described.

Hopefullyadent better hope they don't get asked about evidence based dentistry in their interviews...
 
Jul 18, 2010
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^
but no i can agree with the OP..the kids at UCs try to act like they are chill..but deep down are the most competitive ppl who will do anything to screw ur grade..they also lie about how much they study
Dude what are talking about>> I went to a UC and everyone was super chill. People for the most part definitely were not trying to screw their classmates over. It was a chill environment. What UC did you go to?
 

hopefullyadent

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its one of the top UCs..and yes back when you went to school things were much less competitive and cutthroat then they are now (not to say u had it easy)..kids here will do anything to screw other kids grades over its not even funny.

and no most ppl are not supper chill..they try to act like they are all cool..but after talking to them for 5 mins u will figure out that they are a poser, insecure geek and a wannabe cool person...but thats just on the science part of campus..for the others its not like that
 

Montserrat

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^
evidenced-based healthcare is the worst thing ever..lol im amazzed u guys think it is good..i see they have brainwashed u dental students well

but no i can agree with the OP..the kids at UCs try to act like they are chill..but deep down are the most competitive ppl who will do anything to screw ur grade..they also lie about how much they study

I don't think anything is wrong with evidence-based "anything". It's the process of properly vetting what is scientifically verifiable from what is not. Case in point, many sheep read numbers with an accompanying explanation and few question the premise of the analysis. Having a school that teaches you to tools to learn for yourself isn't necessarily a bad thing. Sure, it is a royal pain in the ass when you have other stuff to study for. But learning to read and think critically is part of higher education as a whole, and colleges really falter in this during this era of liberal indoctrination. Better late than never.
 
Sep 23, 2009
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Oh man, I just saw this post and wanted to give a little response to the original posting. To ucla2134, I'm sorry you're having a rough time, and I hope it gets better....holidays are soon!

But I have to say that I'm a current dental student (procrastinating on studying right now), and I absolutely love it. We're taking anatomy, and it's just the coolest thing ever - a lot of detail, for sure - but how many people have the opportunity to see inside another human being? It's such a cool experience. Most of my classmates also seem very content with being in dental school as well. I know some of this may depend on the school itself, but lot's of people are very happy with both their choice to go to dental school and also with day-to-day life.

Of course, it's also key to remember that the second two years will be very different than the first two years and I think most of us are excited to start seeing patients...for some, the first two years are just a lot of studying that needs to be done, but hey it's only two years!

Anyway, good luck ucla1234 and don't be discouraged folks who are just applying now :)
 
Jul 18, 2010
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its one of the top UCs..and yes back when you went to school things were much less competitive and cutthroat then they are now (not to say u had it easy)..kids here will do anything to screw other kids grades over its not even funny.
Back when I went to school... I graduated in 09. Does that make me old school and have students changed that much over the past year? I don't know what UC you went to but that sucks and why would you rely on other students... If you study and know your material you will do well regardless of your cutthroat classmates. My classmates were cool and helpful. I was in a relaxed environment (UC Santa Cruz).
 

wjdghks

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I don't think anything is wrong with evidence-based "anything". It's the process of properly vetting what is scientifically verifiable from what is not. Case in point, many sheep read numbers with an accompanying explanation and few question the premise of the analysis. Having a school that teaches you to tools to learn for yourself isn't necessarily a bad thing. Sure, it is a royal pain in the ass when you have other stuff to study for. But learning to read and think critically is part of higher education as a whole, and colleges really falter in this during this era of liberal indoctrination. Better late than never.
Yeah thinking critically is really a republican trait...:rolleyes: Cough..creationism
 

yappy

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This is the greatest attempt at a flame war I've ever read... politics + religion:scared:

Let's just take the spirit of what Monserret said to be that critical thinking is a good thing. Not so bad is it?


Yeah thinking critically is really a republican trait...:rolleyes: Cough..creationism
 

Oracle DMD

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txlonghorn

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In Russia, dental school hates you! Lol

I am sure dental school is a pain, but it is only 4 years long. Just push ahead and you will be fine.
 

redchesus

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colleges really falter in this during this era of liberal indoctrination.
LMFAO, you had such a great post going until you clumsily worked that snide political remark in. Obviously all liberals have been indoctrinated that way because they can't think for themselves. Conservatives though, are critical thinkers and know the truth, that socialism = communism = fascism = Islam = Hitler = Barack Obama.
 

AmpedUp

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You don't hate dental school; you just hate UCSF. your screename (ucla2134) is probably indicative of this - a little too ironic huh? My question to you is...Why did you post this under the Pre-Dental forum area when this would be more effective in the Dental School forum? Are you trying to discourage us? :confused:

Anyway, my sympathies to you and wish you well on what may be ahead. I'm not expecting dental school to be easy, but I'll find a way to work around it without spiting it - as a take away message from your post.
 

Montserrat

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LMFAO, you had such a great post going until you clumsily worked that snide political remark in. Obviously all liberals have been indoctrinated that way because they can't think for themselves. Conservatives though, are critical thinkers and know the truth, that socialism = communism = fascism = Islam = Hitler = Barack Obama.
It would have been clumsy, if it weren't so blatantly intentional.

Your sarcastic statement was actually correct on some level. Conservative policy as pertains to macroeconomic and microeconomic policy is rooted in evidence based approaches. With that said, Bush was as much of a conservative as Obama, as both were the antithesis of conservative economic policy.

As for how policies may affect dentistry -- tax bracket fudging should be interesting once we all realize that the Healthcare Bill will prove far more expensive than anyone had ever imagined. Afterall, if the government has been consistent with anything, underestimating projected costs is the major trait irrespective of political affiliation. The downstream effects of this, the implications on student loan payoffs, startup practice loans, etc may be major reasons to hate dentistry in the future.
 

amcmahon

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You don't hate dental school; you just hate UCSF. your screename (ucla2134) is probably indicative of this - a little too ironic huh?
Maybe he went to undergrad at UCLA? Then again I imagine UCLA undergrad is just as competitive and fast paced as UCSF.
 

minoh87

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ucla undergrad was pretty damn competitive.. idk what op's major was but one certain courses in 10 wk quarter we had midterms starting 3rd week and went in a row.

but tho dental schools teach you harder material
 

sillyrdh

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Jul 11, 2010
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i hate it. Dental school is the worst thing that ever happen in my life. Exam after exam. Why the hell do i have to take sci meth in dental school.
Heck and neck can kick my arse. Study so much and still fail.
Maybe it is just my class but there is still gunners everywhere. The school is P/F and people still want to screw everybody.
Also, there are cliques everywhere, it is high school all over again.

I HATE IT I HATE IT.

Btw, i think the purpose of first year is to weed people out.
That sucks that you are at a school that the students feel the need to be competative once they already got in.
 
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bevoMBA90

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Nov 4, 2010
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BEEN THERE, DONE THAT! GOT COLITIS & HAD TO QUIT IN THE 3RD YEAR. Read my blog and see what happened to me. Undergrad does not prepare you for dental school. I really feel your pain. But all is not lost, I switched to business, got an MBA and had a pretty decent 20-year career. I'm currently unemployed, go figure.
 

bevoMBA90

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Nov 4, 2010
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I'm going to be honest with you... There were MANY times during my first 2 years that I thought I had made a huge mistake. I also thought that because of the cost, there was no way out and I was stuck. I didn't handle that very well (details I won't get into). I spent 2nd semester of 1st year sick much of the time because of all of the back to back exams. There were nights, that I entertained some pretty negative ideas.

When I got into clinic, things got both better and worse. I LOVED interacting with patients and I LOVED the work... but I was stressed beyond belief because of having to perform at such a high rate and all the pressure I was putting on myself. Scheduling was difficult, faculty at times were difficult, the work was difficult and to be honest dental school PERIOD was VERY difficult. I often wonder if I had known what I would have to go through, if I would have put myself through that.

Finally, being a 4th year student... I can see that light at the end of the tunnel. I have learned so much and become a better person through the experience. I have learned how to confront faculty in a polite way when they do something I don't like. I have learned how to win my patients' hearts and I have learned that each individual experience that I agonize over is small in the grand scheme of things.

You will do just fine. Keep your head up and don't take things too personally. You can do this and it all will be worth it when you have that degree in your hands.

Take Care.
I hoped things had changed for the best, but they have not. (I compared notes with my dentist who graduated in 1999.) Having earned a degree in science and another in business, let me set the tone: dentistry (and STEM) is just too hard for what you get! If you think you can make it in dentistry, its better to go medical school. If you are like me, and want to make a difference (save the world), then you will have more options as an MD than as a dentist. (My cousin is an MD and we compared notes.) Read my blog. I've posted my war stories and other observations. Colitis made me drop out in the 3rd year, but I switched to business and am better off for the change! I do miss dentistry, what a waste of education. I can't even be a hygienist! :rolleyes:
 
Oct 21, 2009
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Havent been on this website in almost a year.. but Im about 5 weeks away from finishing my 1st semester, and I actually am enjoying dental school. Our class is very close already, not cut-throat at all. This semester is our easiest of the first 2 years, but it was very tolerable, and everyone in my class is doing fine so far. I wasn't a straight-a student in udnergrad either. Cheer up, work on, and soon enough you'll be sticking needles in gums and drilling apart teeth :)


Although I am sitting at home on a friday night :/ haha
 
Aug 26, 2010
208
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Havent been on this website in almost a year.. but Im about 5 weeks away from finishing my 1st semester, and I actually am enjoying dental school. Our class is very close already, not cut-throat at all. This semester is our easiest of the first 2 years, but it was very tolerable, and everyone in my class is doing fine so far. I wasn't a straight-a student in udnergrad either. Cheer up, work on, and soon enough you'll be sticking needles in gums and drilling apart teeth :)


Although I am sitting at home on a friday night :/ haha
What school do you go to?
 

yglide123

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Sorry you're having such a rough time so far! I've got to disagree though, so far it seems like our class legitimately tries to help each other out... there's the drop box with note sharing, the administration is generally pretty supportive, there's free tutoring, etc etc. and "remediation is not the end of the world..."

Sure the workload is pretty tough - but this is a professional graduate school program. I certainly don't think there are so many "gunners" - people are just trying to learn. If you need any help please ask any of your classmates - many of us, including myself, would be more than happy to help out!

-a fellow classmate - please send me a message if you want!!


PS: Jack Bauer is awesome!
----
UCSF Class of 2014
 
Nov 25, 2010
1
0
Status
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UCLA2134,

Thank you for your apology. I hope things are looking up for you. Know that you are not alone. Please, let us know what we can do to help you. This quarter is the hardest. It will get better.

UCSF is a great school. Yes, it is a tough program but we can be assured that we will be some of the top dentists when we graduate. The faculty is very supportive of all of us. They want us to succeed. I could not have asked for a better experience so far and I hope yours gets better.
 
Dec 11, 2009
46
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You shouldn't feel the need to apologize for anything- you were stating your feelings at the time. Your post also gave us pre-dents a great insight into what we could potentially experience during our first year at a highly competitive dental school. Best of luck to you for the rest of your dental career.
 

playa2652

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I just wanted to emphasize that each student experiences various levels of difficulty throughout their first year, at any dental school they might attend. I had some difficulty adjusting during my first quarter as well, but towards the end of the year, I noticed that I have learned a lot and improved in many aspects as well. Some may feel that first year is very isolated because there cliques that form in every class, and that some may give off the impression that they aren't friendly, but it is up to first year students to take the initiative and help each other out rather than blame others for stating their opinions. Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, and we must respect each others' beliefs and each other in order to make dental school the best 4 years of your lives. So for those that posted above, it is not whether you agree/disagree with that student's opinion, but what you should do personally to help that student feel more at ease. Just my two cents for you first-years.
 

Studentpredent

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Thats some messed up stuff man. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and feelings and you're just providing another perspective. Stay strong man!
 

hopefullyadent

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ya i feel for this guy...its pathetic that his classmates and others probably pressured him to apologize..its really funny nhow all these idealists which flood academic institutions (mainly the students) try to act like they are so tolerant but are really some of the most intolerant ppl around...i congratulate this guy for sharing his opinions..and hope his classmates will 'come out of the shell'..
 

AmpedUp

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ya i feel for this guy...its pathetic that his classmates and others probably pressured him to apologize..its really funny nhow all these idealists which flood academic institutions (mainly the students) try to act like they are so tolerant but are really some of the most intolerant ppl around...i congratulate this guy for sharing his opinions..and hope his classmates will 'come out of the shell'..
Yup.
 

FutureDent020

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Every dental student hates school at one point. Every class has gunners. Most students just don't go expressing their feelings on a message board for a couple hundred pre-dental students to read. I'm still not sure why the OP did this. It is most likely that the OP was just having a bad week and decided to vent on the forum. So the apology may actually be sincere.
 
May 22, 2009
341
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I am also a D1 at UCSF and feel like I need to make a couple of comments and clarifications. This one got real long but bear with me :D

First at OP's original post: I'm sorry to hear that you had to go through that phase. I have to say that I can see your frustration with the hardness of the material, but disagree with multiple other things you said. I hope whatever was the reason for your apology, you're doing ok now and will approach us for help whenever you need it. Whether or not our class has gunners will depend on how you define that, but I have not been denied help or material by anyone in the class and have not seen anyone trying to "screw" others either. As far as Sci Meth goes, I have to say there are quite a few students in the class who agree with you about why we even need to learn this stuff. I have to say I have a mixed feeling about this class. I think it's important for us to learn the material, but I think it could be taught better. I think it's part of dentistry that may not be so obvious but something we should definitely be able to tackle down the road when some product promoter comes knocking down on the office door and tries to sell us a product. How can we tell BS from the good stuff if we can't understand the research they've done?

To the predent students who are reading this forum and would like to know more about the D1 environment. If you think dental school will be easy, you're up for a (not-so-)sweet surprise. No one said it was going to be easy, and if they did they had no idea what they were talking about. Our first year is also infamous for being the harder year of the 4 years at UCSF, although I'm sure whatever the reason for that is, it's not to "weed out" students. The school looses about 60-70k pear year for a student who drops out. So weeding students out besides being the wrong thing to do, would be a dumb economical decision. In fact, the whole application and interview process is to make sure that you don't drop out. That being said, we have had extremely well support from our upperclassmen with notes, mock exams, review sessions, etc. The notes taken by upperclassmen along with many other review materials and more are on a dropbox folder which every student in the class has access to. There are many times that people email out review sheets that they've made before quizzes or exams without even being asked to do so. And I think we owe a good portion of this collaborative environment to the fact that the curriculum is P/F. I cannot recommend a P/F system highly enough. I never realized how good it is until being in one. In my opinion, because of that, there are no students trying to screw others and it makes for a much better learning environment where everyone is trying to help each other. I have friends in other dental programs still going by the ABC system (which you may think of as less competitive) and can see the stress level that they have. They are extremely stressed and some have already given up on specializing because they can't get all As to rank so high. I can't even think of the amount of stress I would have if I had to have that "I need an A" mindset. One last thing, UCSF has this name of being a "research school," and I remember being a pre-dent there were many misunderstandings of that. There are ABSOLUTELY ZERO research requirements. If you don't like research, you can go on the 4 years without doing a second of it. The school merely provides many opportunities for you to be able to do research considering that it receives the most research funding every year, but if you don't want it, don't touch it. Bottom line, I feel extremely lucky to have such great classmates and faculty and to be at a great program like UCSF. There's no other dental school I'd rather be at.

To some of the posts above, as far as I know, the students in the class don't even know who the OP is to be able to pressure him/her to apologize or anything of that matter. So maybe you should seek some more facts before you point your fingers and call us idealists or say that we even pressured the OP in the first place.

Lastly to our fellow D2, "playa....", I don't see how the two D1s that posted before me blamed anyone for their beliefs. They also have the right to their own opinion just like the OP. They mentioned why they disagree with the OP's post and offered him/her help, which is really all that can be done on this forum anyway.