I Hate Having a Boss or Being Told What to Do...

[dombarb]

Been getting different answers on this issue, so thought I'd ask it here. Is medicine a good (still good?) profession for someone who by temperament doesn't like having a boss or being told what to do?


Some thoughts:

The actual training for becoming a physician, med school + residency + fellowship, is extremely hierarchical, and people are very sensitive to this hierarchy.

It seems like if you're a hospitalist, you'll be an employee just like at any white or blue-collar job.

If you have your own private practice, you're still subject to a plethora of rules and regulations plus dealing with insurance companies.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Mad Jack]

Been getting different answers on this issue, so thought I'd ask it here. Is medicine a good (still good?) profession for someone who by temperament doesn't like having a boss or being told what to do?


Some thoughts:

The actual training for becoming a physician, med school + residency + fellowship, is extremely hierarchical, and people are very sensitive to this hierarchy.

It seems like if you're a hospitalist, you'll be an employee just like at any white or blue-collar job.

If you have your own private practice, you're still subject to a plethora of rules and regulations plus dealing with insurance companies.

It's pretty rough for people that don't like systems or hierarchies, ngl

 

[NotASerialKiller]

If you don't like being bossed around then the training will be especially difficult, but not impossible.

As for when you practice, there's a big difference between having a human being telling you where to go and what to do, and having rules that can constrain you. Would you interpret call as being "ordered" to work when you're tired? Would waiting on a consult from social work before you can discharge a patient feel like you don't have the freedom to do what you want? For most people I'd say the rules and structure of medicine can be frustrating, but they don't have the same flavour as someone pointing a finger at you and telling you exactly what to do, which is the case during the lengthy training.

Personally I find being constantly bossed around in med school exhausting, but am managing just fine.

*Also I'm Canadian so I can't comment on the insurance part. There's plenty of paperwork here too which can feel burdensome and no physician enjoys, but again it's different from have a "boss".

 

[Angus Avagadro]

Being micromanaged as a trainee is different than complying with insurance regs to get paid. If you have an employer, then you have several superiors, aka Bosses. If you cant live within that microcosm, then you are at risk for non renewal of your contract. Employers do not have to give cause for non renewal. Most contracts are 2 to 5 years.
The good news is more independent practice models separating the insurance company from the PCP equation are developing with physician ownership, and less micromanagement from 35k a year office managers. Go into private practice. It can still be done if you are highly motivated. Good luck and best wishes.

 

[allantois]

Become a nurse, be the boss

 

[gyngyn]

There is no form of work that has more regulation than medicine.

 

[Med Ed]

Been getting different answers on this issue, so thought I'd ask it here. Is medicine a good (still good?) profession for someone who by temperament doesn't like having a boss or being told what to do?

Run like the wind.

 

[Goro]

Been getting different answers on this issue, so thought I'd ask it here. Is medicine a good (still good?) profession for someone who by temperament doesn't like having a boss or being told what to do?


Some thoughts:

The actual training for becoming a physician, med school + residency + fellowship, is extremely hierarchical, and people are very sensitive to this hierarchy.

It seems like if you're a hospitalist, you'll be an employee just like at any white or blue-collar job.

If you have your own private practice, you're still subject to a plethora of rules and regulations plus dealing with insurance companies.

I cannot recommend this career path for you.

I'm not making this up but I once had a student exactly like you. The kid was brilliant but hated being told what to do. This person is no longer in medicine

I

 

[854555]

Any career (except maybe entrepreneurship) requires being a subordinate for several years before you make it to the top.

At least with medicine, you're guaranteed to move up somewhat (i.e. you won't be a med student forever and you won't be a resident forever)

I know people that hate being told what to do (specifically with regards to taking orders), but are fine with following regulation, rules, and guidelines. Are you one of them?

 

[Osteosaur]

There are no jobs where people say "Wow! This kid is super smart. How about we let him do whatever he wants? He will show us the way! Just like when he spent 40 minutes arguing that 1 point test question with a TA."

Most big, important, high-paying jobs involve being responsible and accountable. You need to follow rules, and demonstrate to various people that you are following those rules.

 

[Lucid_Dream]

Been getting different answers on this issue, so thought I'd ask it here. Is medicine a good (still good?) profession for someone who by temperament doesn't like having a boss or being told what to do?


Some thoughts:

The actual training for becoming a physician, med school + residency + fellowship, is extremely hierarchical, and people are very sensitive to this hierarchy.

It seems like if you're a hospitalist, you'll be an employee just like at any white or blue-collar job.

If you have your own private practice, you're still subject to a plethora of rules and regulations plus dealing with insurance companies.

Time to grow up. You'll always have a boss period.

 

[Planes2Doc]

I cannot recommend this career path for you.

I'm not making this up but I once had a student exactly like you. The kid was brilliant but hated being told what to do. This person is no longer in medicine

I

I went to medical school with someone who sounds like this.

Every other word out of his mouth was:
1. "This is so ****ing stupid."
2. "I'm not doing that."
3. "This is ridiculous."

He didn't show up for a single day of our last rotation of medical school that we had together, which was cardiology. This does not go well in residency, so much that termination or contract non-renewal become highly likely.

Look, healthcare is NOT supposed to be a dick measuring contest. Patient lives are at stake. You need to learn to leave your ego at the door. Working with someone with a huge ego is awful. There is nothing more dangerous in medicine than a huge ego.

 

[Lucid_Dream]

I went to medical school with someone who sounds like this.

Every other word out of his mouth was:
1. "This is so ****ing stupid."
2. "I'm not doing that."
3. "This is ridiculous."

He didn't show up for a single day of our last rotation of medical school that we had together, which was cardiology. This does not go well in residency, so much that termination or contract non-renewal become highly likely.

Look, healthcare is NOT supposed to be a dick measuring contest. Patient lives are at stake. You need to learn to leave your ego at the door. Working with someone with a huge ego is awful. There is nothing more dangerous in medicine than a huge ego.

That would be annoying. I would just have to tell him "Dude. Shut the **** up. Noone cares about you"

 

[676188]

Been getting different answers on this issue, so thought I'd ask it here. Is medicine a good (still good?) profession for someone who by temperament doesn't like having a boss or being told what to do?


Some thoughts:

The actual training for becoming a physician, med school + residency + fellowship, is extremely hierarchical, and people are very sensitive to this hierarchy.

It seems like if you're a hospitalist, you'll be an employee just like at any white or blue-collar job.

If you have your own private practice, you're still subject to a plethora of rules and regulations plus dealing with insurance companies.

Do you obey laws and pay taxes?

You’re always going to be told what to do by somebody. A rebellious attitude is a character flaw.

 

[Goro]

Do you obey laws and pay taxes?

You’re always going to be told what to do by somebody. A rebellious attitude is a character flaw.

OH, being rebellious can be OK, but the "Don't tell me what to do!" mindset in every venue is pathological.

 

[Lucid_Dream]

I am a rebellious person, but to rebel just to rebel is stupid. This makes you just as much of a sheep as someone who follows every single word of what someone says, just in opposite. Just as easily manipulated. Instead decide what's best for you, and then decide if the battle is worth it.

 

[Robin-jay]

I am a rebellious person, but to rebel just to rebel is stupid. This makes you just as much of a sheep as someone who follows every single word of what someone says, just in opposite. Just as easily manipulated. Instead decide what's best for you, and then decide if the battle is worth it.

Sometimes conforming is the most rebellious thing to do.

 

[PeleHonuaMea]

Been getting different answers on this issue, so thought I'd ask it here. Is medicine a good (still good?) profession for someone who by temperament doesn't like having a boss or being told what to do?


Some thoughts:

The actual training for becoming a physician, med school + residency + fellowship, is extremely hierarchical, and people are very sensitive to this hierarchy.

It seems like if you're a hospitalist, you'll be an employee just like at any white or blue-collar job.

If you have your own private practice, you're still subject to a plethora of rules and regulations plus dealing with insurance companies.

Residents have failed from our facility program for this same attitude. Yes, they were given many chances to improve, they chose not to, so they were shown the door. Cant teach someone who knows everything. They were a liability and very dangerous to our patients.
Same for some of our physicians, their contracts were never extended. People talk and your reputation will bury you if you're not careful.
Remember, someone will always tell you what to do in healthcare... whether it's an insurance company, CMS, a specialist, admin, a patient, or an angry family member.
This will be an uphill battle for you if you do not change your attitude. Just try your best to stay humble.
Best of luck to you!

 

[Planes2Doc]

Residents have failed from our facility program for this same attitude. Yes, they were given many chances to improve, they chose not to, so they were shown the door. Cant teach someone who knows everything. They were a liability and very dangerous to our patients.
Same for some of our physicians, their contracts were never extended. People talk and your reputation will bury you if you're not careful.
Remember, someone will always tell you what to do in healthcare... whether it's an insurance company, CMS, a specialist, admin, a patient, or an angry family member.
This will be an uphill battle for you if you do not change your attitude. Just try your best to stay humble.
Best of luck to you!

Yes, this.

Also, I looked up the residency program of the guy I mentioned earlier in this thread. I do not see him listed among the residents. If I were a betting man, I'd say everything @PeleHonuaMea just said has come true for this guy.

 

[sunshinefl]

I went to medical school with someone who sounds like this.

Every other word out of his mouth was:
1. "This is so ****ing stupid."
2. "I'm not doing that."
3. "This is ridiculous."

He didn't show up for a single day of our last rotation of medical school that we had together, which was cardiology. This does not go well in residency, so much that termination or contract non-renewal become highly likely.

Look, healthcare is NOT supposed to be a dick measuring contest. Patient lives are at stake. You need to learn to leave your ego at the door. Working with someone with a huge ego is awful. There is nothing more dangerous in medicine than a huge ego.

One of my friends/classmate in medical school is like that. Sometimes it’s so fatiguing having a conversation with her. And then I go home and vent about our conversations with my husband. She’s also very isolated from everyone. Sometimes when she is standing with me on the sidewalk outside of class and a classmate walks by and says Hi to me, they look at her and think/sometimes say “who are you/do you go here” and we’re halfway through 2nd year. Recently after an exam I was having one of those post-exam decompression talks with a couple classmates and she came out and walked over. She started complaining about not getting some high yield study guides that a classmate made, and how it wasn’t fair to her. One of my other friends that I was originally talking to called her out on it and said “Look you isolate yourself. If people don’t even know you, and you’re not contributing anything back to the group, no one is going to bend over backwards for you.” Mind you some of the things she’s complaining about were painstakingly made by classmates (who aren’t getting money, service hours, titles, anything) and generously posted to our class Facebook group. Or important information shared amongst the class in the class GroupMe. But she views “having to check all these sources” as an unreasonable burden and that she should magically be provided everything without any effort at all.

TLDR: one of my med school friends is like this. Always negative, complaining, and isolated.

 

[stickgirl390]

I think in our youth having a boss is difficult because we don’t like people challenging our capabilities. Its less about “being told what to do” and more about being told what to do... like you don’t already know. A well trained employee with good work ethic shouldn’t need a boss, but they still have one, and those leaders struggle with managing employees who don’t “need” them.

I think while a hierarchy exists in medicine, that boss/employee dynamic does not.

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

Are you seriously that egotistical that you think no one can tell you what to do because you already know everything? Please stay away from medicine.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[Lucid_Dream]

I think in our youth having a boss is difficult because we don’t like people challenging our capabilities. Its less about “being told what to do” and more about being told what to do... like you don’t already know. A well trained employee with good work ethic shouldn’t need a boss, but they still have one, and those leaders struggle with managing employees who don’t “need” them.

I think while a hierarchy exists in medicine, that boss/employee dynamic does not.

Same difference. They need to lose the ego.

And what do you think a hierarchy is? A chain of bosses.

I recently dated a 20 year old premed, VERY briefly. Extremely attractive, smart, talented premed. But she had a huge inferiority complex, and it was her professors fault that she made a terrible grade in a class. Even though other people scored better than her. And “people my age had it so much easier.” “In fact her generation had things SO hard”. Check please before I vomit.

 

[831929]

there is plethora of rules around every job. Plus, like someone else mentioned, you have not yet learned medicine. How do you think you get good at something? Someone a lot better tells you what and how to do it. If you don't like that, this might not be the thing you want to do.

Been getting different answers on this issue, so thought I'd ask it here. Is medicine a good (still good?) profession for someone who by temperament doesn't like having a boss or being told what to do?


Some thoughts:

The actual training for becoming a physician, med school + residency + fellowship, is extremely hierarchical, and people are very sensitive to this hierarchy.

It seems like if you're a hospitalist, you'll be an employee just like at any white or blue-collar job.

If you have your own private practice, you're still subject to a plethora of rules and regulations plus dealing with insurance companies.

 

[curbsideconsult]

If you have your own private practice, you're still subject to a plethora of rules and regulations

Ummmmm, this is with any business??

 

[OdysseanUnderdog]

Everybody's got bosses, even if they're self-employed. Like Dylan said, you're gonna have to serve somebody.

 

[PotGoblinsales10]

Sometimes conforming is the most rebellious thing to do.

I'm gonna have to be the outcast who disagrees here on a technical level, but I agree with your overall point.

Technical disagreement: By definition, conforming is not rebellious. If the average person is "rebelling" or non-compliant, then they are actually conforming to that popular position of non-compliance. And conforming with them to be as non-compliant as them, is still conforming. Rebelling would be doing the opposite of the conformists. But in this case, rebelling would be compliance! It is being compliant and a non-conformist at the same time. An amazing thing!! And that is why I agree with your overall argument. I think you were saying that "sometimes compliance is the most rebellious thing to do"!

I think over-compliance is the best kind of rebellion, because you can actually get away with it. You were just following the regulations after all (any maybe you wanted to piss off someone you don't like who doesn't like to work harder than they have to).

 

[Robin-jay]

I'm gonna have to be the outcast who disagrees here on a technical level, but I agree with your overall point.

Technical disagreement: By definition, conforming is not rebellious. If the average person is "rebelling" or non-compliant, then they are actually conforming to that popular position of non-compliance. And conforming with them to be as non-compliant as them, is still conforming. Rebelling would be doing the opposite of the conformists. But in this case, rebelling would be compliance! It is being compliant and a non-conformist at the same time. An amazing thing!!

Of course its not correct on a technical level. There are forms of speech that aren't technical, but more poetic. Those points are often much more seductive to the reader.

"Sometimes the best technical sentences are the worst technical sentence".

Technically, the above statement is incorrect. However, it punches a point better than a technical sentence.

 

[PeleHonuaMea]

Yes, this.

Also, I looked up the residency program of the guy I mentioned earlier in this thread. I do not see him listed among the residents. If I were a betting man, I'd say everything @PeleHonuaMea just said has come true for this guy.

I'm willing to place a bet on it too!

We have these individuals to thank for helping us improve our residency program and physician group! They were an inspiration for some of our most important interview questions: "how would your coworkers/classmates/teachers/supervisors describe you? What is it like to work with you?" Then we check their answers. Exhaustively. It's a wonderful thing this field is not as big as some think.

Because Someone knows Somebody from Somewhere town who knows you.

 

[ChiDr]

Sorry, but that is life.

A CEO answers to his/her board and shareholders.

A physician answers to his/her patients and/or the hospital board.

A lawyer answers to his/her clients/judges/partners/superiors.

An entrepreneur answers to his/her investors.

Figure out a way to be flexible with relationships.

You don’t want a boss? Make enough money to where you don’t have to work.