I hate Neuroscience

[Kaustikos]

How did it work out for you? I'm debating what to use for our neuro class, and am nervous just using the textbook and nothing else. It seems pretty dense but good from the couple chapters I've managed to go through. Any tips?

Yeah,
Get comfortable with using books to study. I don't know if you're a first or second year, but the days of relying on what the professor says in class are gone for me. I had to force myself to move away from that and study via books...tough learning experience.

Really well.

I'd just look up whatever topic was being in covered in class that day and read the corresponding chapter in Blumenfeld's. It's a solid, solid book. Especially loved the clinical cases you get to work through at the end -- those really solidified the material well (except for the brainstem cases, which were ridiculously tough!).

It's the only textbook I've read almost to its entirety. If it works for you, keep using it. If not, switch to something else. Hope that helps.

I'd also like to add Clinical Neuro Made Simple... and Fundamental Neuroscience. Read Clinical made simple beforehand and then use the fundamental neuroscience with the notes in class. The nice part was my prof was pretty much an expert on this subject. The bad part was the prof was an expert on the subject... and would just go off tangent or just get really worked up on the tracts. We'd be on one slide showing the cerebellospinal tract and she'd talk about the entire thing using that slide and not miss anything. And then we'd realize the next 5 slides say just that. She just really loves it.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[notbobtrustme]

everything is gray and white and stupid and confusing and nothing makes sense and it's all stupid arbitrary pieces of ****.

**** this class.

 

[Anastomoses]

Neuroscience almost gave me cancer

Uh oh. Can neuroscience do that?

 

[Kaustikos]

everything is gray and white and stupid and confusing and nothing makes sense and it's all stupid arbitrary pieces of ****.

**** this class.

Neuro isn't arbitrary...

It's not easy man. But here's some help - http://headneckbrainspine.com/

That's how I aced the first exam/identification. Now I feel really comfortable navigating the brain on MRI's. I can tell what's what. Can I tell lesions? Hell no. But that comes w/ practice...and I've never seen mri lesions regularly.

 

[Planes2Doc]

It's a little too academic for my taste.

 

[Kaustikos]

It's a little too academic for my taste.

Some, yes... but if you seem to think that neuro isn't clinical for the most part... I guess they didn't teach you the correlation. The only issue I've had dealt with the cerebellar signaling/pathways, but there's a lot of clinical associations to what you learn in Neuro. Especially in emergency situations when you test for pupillary response, doll's eye reflex, decorticate/cerebrate rigidity, etc etc.

 

[BlaseFaire]

Yes, I agree. Neuro seems to the the most clinically relevant class. You can localize infarctions, embolisms, hemorrhages, and lesions based on presenting symptoms.

Good sites:

http://library.med.utah.edu/neurologicexam/html/home_exam.html

http://isc.temple.edu/neuroanatomy/lab/lesions/index.htm

It hope it becomes painless. Also, this paper is a gem; you can identify any brainstem lesion after going through it once:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1445-5994.2004.00732.x/abstract

 

[notbobtrustme]

Neuro isn't arbitrary...

It's not easy man. But here's some help - http://headneckbrainspine.com/

That's how I aced the first exam/identification. Now I feel really comfortable navigating the brain on MRI's. I can tell what's what. Can I tell lesions? Hell no. But that comes w/ practice...and I've never seen mri lesions regularly.

Neuro is completely arbitrary in that you can't follow anything. It's pure memorization.

Why does the caudate nucleus project to the substania nigra and globus pallidus external? Why does it use several different NTs? Why do pyrimadal neurons decussate while motor outputs from the trigeminal don't? Why are C fibers unmyelinated while alpha and beta fibers are?

Nothing in neuro is straightforward or deduciable. At least in physiology you can the 10 or so rules for each organ system and then deduce your way out from there. In neuro, there's nothing like that. You just have to know the circuits, the NTs, etc etc. That's what I mean by arbitrary.

 

[Salinas]

-

 

[Kaustikos]

Neuro is completely arbitrary in that you can't follow anything. It's pure memorization.

Why does the caudate nucleus project to the substania nigra and globus pallidus external? Why does it use several different NTs? Why do pyrimadal neurons decussate while motor outputs from the trigeminal don't? Why are C fibers unmyelinated while alpha and beta fibers are?

Nothing in neuro is straightforward or deduciable. At least in physiology you can the 10 or so rules for each organ system and then deduce your way out from there. In neuro, there's nothing like that. You just have to know the circuits, the NTs, etc etc. That's what I mean by arbitrary.

That's why you think it's arbitrary? These are pathways setup to best deliver information between different parts of the brain. It's about processing and efficacy. The names are arbitrary, sure, I'll give you that. But every organ name is like that. But the whole pathways aren't. Relay points are important when you're trying to decipher the type of information being sent and where to send it to. You can't just have the dorsal column pathway go straight to the cortex without relaying at different sites/neurons. That makes sense to me...

Decussation has been shown to significantly reduce errors in wiring/signal transduction. It's a highly efficacious way of sending information without screwing things up.

But I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree

 

[notbobtrustme]

That's why you think it's arbitrary? These are pathways setup to best deliver information between different parts of the brain. It's about processing and efficacy. The names are arbitrary, sure, I'll give you that. But every organ name is like that. But the whole pathways aren't. Relay points are important when you're trying to decipher the type of information being sent and where to send it to. You can't just have the dorsal column pathway go straight to the cortex without relaying at different sites/neurons. That makes sense to me...

Decussation has been shown to significantly reduce errors in wiring/signal transduction. It's a highly efficacious way of sending information without screwing things up.

But I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree

Does it really make sense to process the visual field in the occipital lobe as opposed to the frontal? Given how important visual information is (eg something running at you), shouldn't the shortest distance for information travel make the most sense? Why flip and invert the visual field? Of course, there may be some underlying reason why this is most efficient. Most of it is probably due to evolutionary accidents, not some grand design.

That's just one example. Sure you can talk about information processing and ****, but at the same time, every pathway is arbitrary in the brain. Contrast that with the heart, where there are specific and fairly straightforward demands to be met. If you know the rules behind the heart, just about everything makes sense. There's arbitrary BS in each organ system (eg norepi vs epi, there's no real reason why norepi constricts while epi dilates, the system could work perfectly fine if the roles of epi and norepi were reversed), but the sheer number of arbitrary garbage in neuro is unparalleled.

 

[Charles_Carmichael]

I can see both sides of the argument. There is a decent amount of memorization (more so than physio, at least).

However, my personal opinion is that once you do lay down that foundation (by memorizing tracts and pathways), problem-solving in neuro becomes much more thinking-intensive (and fun!). It's sort of how the immune system works -- in the beginning, there's a fair bit of memorization but, once you've got the vocabulary down, the immune response is incredibly conceptual and predictable.

Anyways, that's just my opinion on it. Oh, if you guys are having difficulty with the brainstem and brainstem syndromes, google "rule of 4 brainstem" for an excellent article (by Gates, I think) on a simplified way of recognizing these syndromes.

 

[BlaseFaire]

I already linked the article, homie.

 

[Charles_Carmichael]

I already linked the article, homie.

Ah, my bad! I'm on my phone, so I didn't look through the entirety of the thread before posting.

 

[BlaseFaire]

Ha, no worries.

Here is a great visual depiction of it too:

http://cdn.lifeinthefastlane.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Rule-of-4-Illustration-Tor-Ercleve.jpg

 

[Planes2Doc]

Does it really make sense to process the visual field in the occipital lobe as opposed to the frontal? Given how important visual information is (eg something running at you), shouldn't the shortest distance for information travel make the most sense? Why flip and invert the visual field? Of course, there may be some underlying reason why this is most efficient. Most of it is probably due to evolutionary accidents, not some grand design.

That's just one example. Sure you can talk about information processing and ****, but at the same time, every pathway is arbitrary in the brain. Contrast that with the heart, where there are specific and fairly straightforward demands to be met. If you know the rules behind the heart, just about everything makes sense. There's arbitrary BS in each organ system (eg norepi vs epi, there's no real reason why norepi constricts while epi dilates, the system could work perfectly fine if the roles of epi and norepi were reversed), but the sheer number of arbitrary garbage in neuro is unparalleled.

Speaking of vision... Blobs.

 

[rodmichael82]

There's arbitrary BS in each organ system (eg norepi vs epi, there's no real reason why norepi constricts while epi dilates, the system could work perfectly fine if the roles of epi and norepi were reversed), but the sheer number of arbitrary garbage in neuro is unparalleled.

Amen!

 

[ronnicus]

Do you guys think taking 2 quarters of neurobiology in college would have helped much?

 

[DermViser]

Do you guys think taking 2 quarters of neurobiology in college would have helped much?

Well it's been a year since that thread started with the last post, but I'll try to answer you. I think an undergraduate Neurobiology course will help with getting the lingo down, but it also depends on what is covered in the course. I would say the hardest part of Neurosci is Neuroanatomy.

 

[ronnicus]

Well it's been a year since that thread started with the last post, but I'll try to answer you. I think an undergraduate Neurobiology course will help with getting the lingo down, but it also depends on what is covered in the course. I would say the hardest part of Neurosci is Neuroanatomy.

Thanks for responding- these are the course descriptions:
MCDB 151. Neurobiology I: Cellular Organization and Biophysics of the Nervous System
Properties of the nervous system ranging from single cells to the whole organism, using examples from vertebrates and invertebrates studied in terms of morphology, physiology, and behavior.
MCDB 152. Neurobiology II: Molecular and Cellular Neurobiology
This second course of a three quarter neurobiology course sequence (151/152/153) covers both top down systems level approaches and bottom up molecular approaches to major topics in neurobiology. These topics include mechanisms of sensory transduction in at least two selected sensory systems, processing of sensory information within the brain, mechanisms of muscle control, cell signaling, neuronal plasticity, neuronal polarity, and the mapping of neural information to the brain.

What do you think? Is it worth working harder senior year just to take these classes?

 

[DermViser]

Thanks for responding- these are the course descriptions:
MCDB 151. Neurobiology I: Cellular Organization and Biophysics of the Nervous System
Properties of the nervous system ranging from single cells to the whole organism, using examples from vertebrates and invertebrates studied in terms of morphology, physiology, and behavior.
MCDB 152. Neurobiology II: Molecular and Cellular Neurobiology
This second course of a three quarter neurobiology course sequence (151/152/153) covers both top down systems level approaches and bottom up molecular approaches to major topics in neurobiology. These topics include mechanisms of sensory transduction in at least two selected sensory systems, processing of sensory information within the brain, mechanisms of muscle control, cell signaling, neuronal plasticity, neuronal polarity, and the mapping of neural information to the brain.

What do you think? Is it worth working harder senior year just to take these classes?

Doesn't sound like they'd be too useful based on the lack of emphasis on Human Neuroanatomy and gross neuroanatomical structures/tracts.

 

[DocVapor]

Thanks for responding- these are the course descriptions:
MCDB 151. Neurobiology I: Cellular Organization and Biophysics of the Nervous System
Properties of the nervous system ranging from single cells to the whole organism, using examples from vertebrates and invertebrates studied in terms of morphology, physiology, and behavior.
MCDB 152. Neurobiology II: Molecular and Cellular Neurobiology
This second course of a three quarter neurobiology course sequence (151/152/153) covers both top down systems level approaches and bottom up molecular approaches to major topics in neurobiology. These topics include mechanisms of sensory transduction in at least two selected sensory systems, processing of sensory information within the brain, mechanisms of muscle control, cell signaling, neuronal plasticity, neuronal polarity, and the mapping of neural information to the brain.

What do you think? Is it worth working harder senior year just to take these classes?

I was a neuroscience major in undergrad. Those courses would help. Vertebrate neuroanatomy isn't all that different from human (the shape of the brains is different, but all the structures/functions are pretty much the same). That said, having those courses will not make your med school neuroscience easy. Also, lots of people go into med school barely knowing where the brain is, and still do fine. So you just need to decide if you want the extra work now or later.