MedicalSonata

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Okay so...I thought maybe I could pull out a C in Organic Chemistry (I have other threads on this)...but I just took the final and Failed.

I now have no idea what I'm going to do. I really don't want to take it over at my same college (for many reasons*), but I know it looks bad if I take it elsewhere...and also is it pretty much over now that I've got an F in Organic Chemistry on my transcript? I'm really freaking out here...I feel like crawling into bed and never coming out again - after all my hard work to get this far, to be stopped by Organic Chemistry.

*Reasons:
1 - Organic Chemistry is notoriously hard at my school. Maaaany fail.
2 - The prof. is not English, that could have caused part of the problem. He is the only Organic Chemistry prof.
3 - It is only offered in Fall. I have to take Biochemistry, which requires Organic Chemistry I-II as a pre-req, ASAP, and waiting till junior year to start the Orgo sequence over will delay graduation.
 

Premed Worrier

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Okay so...I thought maybe I could pull out a C in Organic Chemistry (I have other threads on this)...but I just took the final and Failed.

I now have no idea what I'm going to do. I really don't want to take it over at my same college (for many reasons*), but I know it looks bad if I take it elsewhere...and also is it pretty much over now that I've got an F in Organic Chemistry on my transcript? I'm really freaking out here...I feel like crawling into bed and never coming out again - after all my hard work to get this far, to be stopped by Organic Chemistry.

*Reasons:
1 - Organic Chemistry is notoriously hard at my school. Maaaany fail.
2 - The prof. is not English, that could have caused part of the problem. He is the only Organic Chemistry prof.
3 - It is only offered in Fall. I have to take Biochemistry, which requires Organic Chemistry I-II as a pre-req, ASAP, and waiting till junior year to start the Orgo sequence over will delay graduation.
I think in DO apps. they will use your last grade in a retake...just a thought...you definitely need to pass it to get in, as far as doing it at a different school? i don't think that is too cool, but i am not an adcom member...
 

Bamish

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Well, I'm not sure what to say really. Obviously you know you have to retake it and get at least a C. While it may not look good to take it at another school...well, if that's what you HAVE to do, then do it.

While I really think that taking it at the same school might look best, it's going to look really bad if you take it again and get lower than a C. So, I guess do what you have to in order to make sure you pass the course next time.

Good luck!! :)
 
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tnig469

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This isn't the end of the world.

This may delay graduation but you CAN take it over again. If you really want to become a physician, you have to do what you can to finish the pre reqs.

Just think really hard and go for it again. If you show you can do better the next time around med schools will see your upward trend. It shows how determined you are to get into medical school. Don't give up for one class.
 
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ILikeFood

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Okay so...I thought maybe I could pull out a C in Organic Chemistry (I have other threads on this)...but I just took the final and Failed.
Yes, have you read them? :confused:

I now have no idea what I'm going to do.
What about reading your other threads?

I really don't want to take it over at my same college (for many reasons*), but I know it looks bad if I take it elsewhere...
Maybe you should read the original post of this thread you started.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=584359

and also is it pretty much over now that I've got an F in Organic Chemistry on my transcript? I'm really freaking out here...I feel like crawling into bed and never coming out again - after all my hard work to get this far, to be stopped by Organic Chemistry.
Why don't you take a look at this thread you started, where most people agree that it's still early and you can still recover.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=583264

*Reasons:
1 - Organic Chemistry is notoriously hard at my school. Maaaany fail.
2 - The prof. is not English, that could have caused part of the problem. He is the only Organic Chemistry prof.
3 - It is only offered in Fall. I have to take Biochemistry, which requires Organic Chemistry I-II as a pre-req, ASAP, and waiting till junior year to start the Orgo sequence over will delay graduation.
You know what else will delay graduation? Failing Ochem again. So take it easy and don't rush into anything.

Take the Ochem series at a state school. Maybe Ochem 1 in the spring, and Ochem II in the summer. That's not out of the question, is it?
 

HALIVE

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My advice to you is to sleep on it, take a deep breath and Ooooosa! It's not the end of your pre-med dream. It is however an opportunity for you to re-evaluate your studying skills. It is true that many have fallen prey to the evil hands of organic chemistry, but it is definitely a subject that can be conquered.

"Okay so...I thought maybe I could pull out a C in Organic Chemistry (I have other threads on this)...but I just took the final and Failed."

What made you approach a C in the first place? Was it time management, not enough practice? etc. You need to know this before you attempt to try it again at a different school. You can take it at a different school, but it will decrease your overall gpa at your current school (most schools have grade replacements for failed courses).

I sympathize with you... Just know that medical school admission is more than a stellar resume. It is also about the challenges you overcame and the lessons you learnt from the process.
 
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ILikeFood

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Just know that medical school admission is more than a stellar resume. It is also about the challenges you overcame and the lessons you learnt from the process.
:thumbup:

Once the OP stops going into shock over every little roadblock, he/she will be fine.
 

rajaholick

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what undergrad school are you at?
from your posts i've seen things like "top 15" and "orgo is really hard here"
is it UofM?
 

MossPoh

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Ok. First fallacy during this whole thing is that you never own up to doing poorly. Can parts of it be attributed to a professor? Sure. As a whole, the material is still your responsibility and I hear far too many people blame accents as a reason they did poorly. I had incredibly difficult professors and I am yet to hear of a school that is known for its "easy" organic chemistry class. I understand you are depressed, but all you can do is wait to see what your final grade is (not your assumed grade) and then go from there. If all else fails, you take some of the bio classes or whatever your major is and then you load up when it is offered again. I know it sounds like I'm a prick but the first thing through your head should be "What did I do wrong. And what can I do to improve next time?." Not, "Well, I would've been alright but....."

Unless you have attended multiple universities and taken the same courses, you have no idea about the relative difficulty. From my experience, and yes I have attended different schools, people tend to say that at EVERY location with EVERY class that people struggle with.

Go and retake the course at your current university. Use this semester as a fire under your arse and get the A. No excuses. Just go out and do it. It sucks but it isn't the end of the world. You'll survive and you'll be the better for it.

To put some perspective, my dad (and one of my best friends) failed a course during college. Did mediocre in some others. They BOTH went to medical school and were in the top 3 of their class. AOA. Prestigious Internships...all that jazz. Once you accept certain parts as a constant and try to better yourself, the sky is the limit. Undergraduate grades do not dictate your ability to succeed in medical school. They might indicate how you could possibly achieve, but it is not the rule.
 

MedicalSonata

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The school is Cornell.

Thanks for the insight guys. Yes, I've started other threads on this, and yes I read them...but I just wanted a fresh perspective (I'm a little in shock...I wanted some reassurance).

Someone mentioned a state school...what about a state school online? I don't really live near my state school, but they offer Organic Chemistry I and II online. I can take the lab at my home school (which is a separate, one semester, 2 credit class). How's that?
 

singinfifi

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DEEP BREATH.

Your'e lucky in that the course is only offered in the fall. Pick yourself up, dust yoruself off and find another institution to take it at in the summer session. When Admissions interviewers ask you why you didn't take it at your own college, simply site that you had to take it quickly to move on with your cirriculum and this other school was the only option. So take it at another school (or even...online if you HAVE to) and move on. Do NOT in an interview, blame your teacher, or the difficultity of the course.

Story time. :cool:

I took chem I at my undergrad institution it was AWFUL our chem dept made me wanna shoot myself in the face. I got a "B" in the class...but DANG. Because of this, I took Chem II that summer at a local community college...this did NOT pose a problem for interviews(did the same thing for physics II because I needed an evening class and couldn't get one at my school)

The next semester i took Ochem I at ucf and got a D+. That was lovely. So I picked myself up, dusted myself off and took it Again! ......and got a D.....

Man. Talk about a kick in the @$$.

I mean, granted, I did get hit by a drunk driver in the middle of the 2nd time and wound up spending two week sin the hospital with a friend of mine the first time I took it...but still...I'd taken the damn thing twice and hadn't passed it (Probably should have taken a LoA...but yeah..anyway) I took it A THIRD TIME and got an A. Took organic II and got an A. Took biochemistry and got an A.

I got into a bunch of schools and turned down interviews from several others.

You CAN succeed after a bump in the road (or...in my case...*cough*..several).
 

MedicalSonata

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Singin - thank you! That's a very...helpful story. Sorry about the uhh...drunk driver.
 
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Brodiewankenobi

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Little advice from a re-app who has had some academic setbacks and still got accepted

Step 1: Own your failure. The prof didn't make you fail. The hard-school didn't make you fail. You failed. Accept it.

Step 2: (which you seem to be starting) form a game plan. Ask yourself why you failed. Conceptually did you just not 'get it'? Just re-taking it at an 'easier state school' may not solve all of your problems if you fundamentally don't understand Ochem. Put yourself in a position that you are d#mn sure you are going to ace the class so you don't have to do this BS again. Perhaps getting a private tutor.

Step 3: When going through the admissions process, don't hide from your past. No need to announce the fact that you failed a class, but if the topic does come up, own it. This may allow you to turn a negative into a positive by showing maturity and commitment. I know this course of action worked well for me. Good luck
 

Eudjinn

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Little advice from a re-app who has had some academic setbacks and still got accepted

Step 1: Own your failure. The prof didn't make you fail. The hard-school didn't make you fail. You failed. Accept it.

Step 2: (which you seem to be starting) form a game plan. Ask yourself why you failed. Conceptually did you just not 'get it'? Just re-taking it at an 'easier state school' may not solve all of your problems if you fundamentally don't understand Ochem. Put yourself in a position that you are d#mn sure you are going to ace the class so you don't have to do this BS again. Perhaps getting a private tutor.

Step 3: When going through the admissions process, don't hide from your past. No need to announce the fact that you failed a class, but if the topic does come up, own it. This may allow you to turn a negative into a positive by showing maturity and commitment. I know this course of action worked well for me. Good luck
QFT the bold part. I got a D in orgo 1 the first time around and used your same reasons to rationalize it. The truth is that I just didn't work hard enough and gave up on understanding before I even opened the book to try. I retook it, worked much harder, and got an A- (same school) and realized that grades will always reflect how hard you work. I'm doing very well in med school because I don't worry about bad profs or bad notes... I sit on my ass and study until I understand.

Adcoms will appreciate it more, as stated, that you own up to just not working hard enough or some other hardship that clouded your judgement as opposed to "my prof was not English" or "Ochem at my school is killer."
 

brucecanbeatyou

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2 - The prof. is not English, that could have caused part of the problem.
I absolutely cannot stand for it when those non-English professors cause all sorts of problems. After eating some biscuits and tea, I rode the tube to university, only to be surprised that an American professor was teaching one of my classes! :eek: I was supposed to be reading chemistry with a bloke from my own country, getting a thoroughly English education! I hereby move that we ban all non-English professors.
 

brucecanbeatyou

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A lot of people have retaken courses and still gotten in to medical school, including me. Get your schtuff together, don't make excuses, and get a good grade in the course. Hey, at least it'll be way easier the second time around, since you've already heard the concepts once!
 
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momgracea

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A lot of people have retaken courses and still gotten in to medical school, including me. Get your schtuff together, don't make excuses, and get a good grade in the course. Hey, at least it'll be way easier the second time around, since you've already heard the concepts once!
I agree with Bruce...

Who cares if you take it at another school? Regardless, it should be easier the second time around. I got a C in OChem I and fully expected to get a C in OChem II... but a car accident meant I had to take an incomplete and restart the course. Ultimately, that little bit of repetition helped me get a B in the harder course.

Cheer up! It's all gonna be okay!
 

Brodiewankenobi

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I agree with Bruce...

Who cares if you take it at another school? Regardless, it should be easier the second time around

Actually, I would re-take the class at the same school. Adcoms are pretty adept at sniffing out people who avoid challenges. Re-taking a previously failed course at a CC might draw some serious criticisms when applying to more competitive institutions. Just imagine you are on an adcom and you have couple of students who have re-takes on their records. All things being equal, you're probably going to favor the one who has retaken the same hard course, rather than the one who found an easier way to fulfill the requirement. my $0.02.
 

nascardoc

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Okay so...I thought maybe I could pull out a C in Organic Chemistry (I have other threads on this)...but I just took the final and Failed.

I now have no idea what I'm going to do. I really don't want to take it over at my same college (for many reasons*), but I know it looks bad if I take it elsewhere...and also is it pretty much over now that I've got an F in Organic Chemistry on my transcript? I'm really freaking out here...I feel like crawling into bed and never coming out again - after all my hard work to get this far, to be stopped by Organic Chemistry.

*Reasons:
1 - Organic Chemistry is notoriously hard at my school. Maaaany fail.
2 - The prof. is not English, that could have caused part of the problem. He is the only Organic Chemistry prof.
3 - It is only offered in Fall. I have to take Biochemistry, which requires Organic Chemistry I-II as a pre-req, ASAP, and waiting till junior year to start the Orgo sequence over will delay graduation.
I got a D the first time I took Orgo II and had to retake. I decided to retake it at a community college rather than my university, and that helped a ton. Much more focused and not so research oriented. It doesn't look that bad to retake the course at another school, and if it were to ever come up in an interview, you tell the truth. No biggie. It looks a lot better to continue your pursuit in medicine than give up b/c of one class, IMO. Keep digging, don't let the bump in the road discourage you. :thumbup:
 

Sarg's kid

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Hey, i've been in your boat. I got a D in Ochem I the first go 'round. I retook the next semester and got a C+. I then skipped Orgo II and took a semester of biochem. That was in 2004. Spring of 2008, I took Ochem II at the CC and aced it (I mean rocked its socks off). This cycle has played out better for me and I've been accepted, so you can still be a doctor.

The keys to overcoming this black eye are:
1 Make sure your physics grades and your other science grades are A's.
2 It sucks, but you're going to have to retake it somewhere. On the upside, your first test the second time around should be pretty good (because that stuff is basic even after you've failed the rest.) So you can use that to pad the rest of your semester.
3 Try (I know you don't have many options) but TRY to take it somewhere else or from somebody else. Ochem profs only come in two shades: HORRIBLE and AWESOME. Find an awesome, even if its at the CC, and rock out your two semesters of chemistry hell.

Good luck.
 

spicedmanna

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Actually, I would re-take the class at the same school. Adcoms are pretty adept at sniffing out people who avoid challenges.
I agree with this. Personally, I would retake the class at the same, or at least an equivalent, institution, for maximum effect. Before you do that, however, you need to figure what what went wrong, fix it, and make sure it won't happen again. This is very important. It would be ideal if you can get an A on the retake. If you can't ensure an A, or at minimum, a B, then don't retake it until you can. Do what you need to do, including hiring a tutor.

That being said, it isn't the end of the world at all. You can recover. Try not to do that again.
 

spicedmanna

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*Reasons:
1 - Organic Chemistry is notoriously hard at my school. Maaaany fail.
2 - The prof. is not English, that could have caused part of the problem. He is the only Organic Chemistry prof.
3 - It is only offered in Fall. I have to take Biochemistry, which requires Organic Chemistry I-II as a pre-req, ASAP, and waiting till junior year to start the Orgo sequence over will delay graduation.
These are not viable reasons. They are excuses for your failure and that's how adcoms are likely to view it, too, if you cite the above. You MUST take full responsibility for your outcome. What that means is, if your reference point is outside of yourself, then you are coming from the wrong place. You need to find out what YOU did to fail and correct that problem.
 
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psy

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*Reasons:
1 - Organic Chemistry is notoriously hard at my school. Maaaany fail.
2 - The prof. is not English, that could have caused part of the problem. He is the only Organic Chemistry prof.
3 - It is only offered in Fall. I have to take Biochemistry, which requires Organic Chemistry I-II as a pre-req, ASAP, and waiting till junior year to start the Orgo sequence over will delay graduation.
1- Ochem is hard at my school too. I believe more than 60% of the people failed it.
2 - The prof at my school was greek. He speaks with an accent and doesn't bathe (you can see the yellow stains on his t-shirt...eww...).
3- the ochem series is also offered in the fall for my school as well. :/

I did not fail ochem however. I finished my final in about 15 minutes instead of the 2 hours allotted and came out with top scores. The reason being: he was trying really hard to dumb down the final to help everyone out. However, many of those students didn't learn the material, didn't pay attention in class, or have personal reasons and thus they didn't do so hot. I didn't read the book but I did pay attention in class and attended every lecture. You will find that your situation is very similar to what other students go through. You need to study and do practice problems for ochem every single day for at least 1 hour. Then you will do well.
 

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1- Ochem is hard at my school too. I believe more than 60% of the people failed it.
2 - The prof at my school was greek. He speaks with an accent and doesn't bathe (you can see the yellow stains on his t-shirt...eww...).
3- the ochem series is also offered in the fall for my school as well. :/

I did not fail ochem however. I finished my final in about 15 minutes instead of the 2 hours allotted and came out with top scores. The reason being: he was trying really hard to dumb down the final to help everyone out. However, many of those students didn't learn the material, didn't pay attention in class, or have personal reasons and thus they didn't do so hot. I didn't read the book but I did pay attention in class and attended every lecture. You will find that your situation is very similar to what other students go through. You need to study and do practice problems for ochem every single day for at least 1 hour. Then you will do well.
15 minutes?! Whatever test you took...it was too easy. :laugh:
 

psy

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Many of the questions were variations of reactions he lectured on in class. If those guys had attended his lectures and paid attention to the reactions he showed, there should be no problem. There were a few novel synthesis and substitution reactions but it was pretty much straight forward. I also loved how the prof taught us that every chemical reaction is between a hole and a pair (of electrons). If you can find the hole and pair in the compounds or create those hole and pairs you can form a reaction, even for the most stable compounds. Using his methodology Ochem became a breeze and every reaction and mechanism made sense to me.
 

spicedmanna

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Many of the questions were variations of reactions he lectured on in class. If those guys had attended his lectures and paid attention to the reactions he showed, there should be no problem. There were a few novel synthesis and substitution reactions but it was pretty much straight forward. I also loved how the prof taught us that every chemical reaction is between a hole and a pair (of electrons). If you can find the hole and pair in the compounds or create those hole and pairs you can form a reaction, even for the most stable compounds. Using his methodology Ochem became a breeze and every reaction and mechanism made sense to me.
:laugh: I took organic chemistry at the wrong university, apparently. The class I took worked this way: you needed to show up to class, take extensive notes, read the required text, and do all of the problems (not just the assigned ones) just to pass. The tests were works of art. By the time you finished, you were sweating from all of the effort required to solve many of the problems. Synthesis questions were always novel and you needed to know how to apply mechanisms to unfamiliar compounds, geometries, or situations, etc. Your understanding was tested. Sometimes you had to use your creativity to solve the problems. Tests were tough and I worked HARD for my A's there, but at the end, it was worth it, because I rocked my organic on the MCAT.
 

psy

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It wasn't exactly easy. I still had to memorize the reactions, mechanisms, and their catalysts, but they made more sense and memorizing was easier when things follow a logical order. Even though it seemed easy, most of the class didn't do so well...and the prof is rather stubborn. He doesn't do curves. The university can't fire him since he has tenure and is a Noble laureate. I guess the way he dressed and acted made people less attentive. He treated ochem as child's play and that may have made the students too relaxed in their studies. Ochem isn't easy...but that doesn't mean it's impossible.
After writing this post I visited his page at my university. It seems the hole and pair concept was his entire research into atomic bonding and VB theory. He just simplified it into "hole" and "pair".
 
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Dissected

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:laugh: I took organic chemistry at the wrong university, apparently. The class I took worked this way: you needed to show up to class, take extensive notes, read the required text, and do all of the problems (not just the assigned ones) just to pass. The tests were works of art. By the time you finished, you were sweating from all of the effort required to solve many of the problems. Synthesis questions were always novel and you needed to know how to apply mechanisms to unfamiliar compounds, geometries, or situations, etc. Your understanding was tested. Sometimes you had to use your creativity to solve the problems. Tests were tough and I worked HARD for my A's there, but at the end, it was worth it, because I rocked my organic on the MCAT.
same here. my teacher loved getting creative.
 

Semicolon

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My teacher was very creative as well. And very German.

He would love telling morbid hypothetical chemical-related stories that would always end with, "we would all die horribly, yah?".

He also made us watch as he put dry ice in his mouth. Crazy.
 

angldrps

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Okay so...I thought maybe I could pull out a C in Organic Chemistry (I have other threads on this)...but I just took the final and Failed.

I now have no idea what I'm going to do. I really don't want to take it over at my same college (for many reasons*), but I know it looks bad if I take it elsewhere...and also is it pretty much over now that I've got an F in Organic Chemistry on my transcript? I'm really freaking out here...I feel like crawling into bed and never coming out again - after all my hard work to get this far, to be stopped by Organic Chemistry.

*Reasons:
1 - Organic Chemistry is notoriously hard at my school. Maaaany fail.
2 - The prof. is not English, that could have caused part of the problem. He is the only Organic Chemistry prof.
3 - It is only offered in Fall.
I have to take Biochemistry, which requires Organic Chemistry I-II as a pre-req, ASAP, and waiting till junior year to start the Orgo sequence over will delay graduation.
All of your "reasons" are nothing but lame excuses. O-chem is hard at pretty much every school with many students failing out. Stop blaming the professor as we all deal with less than ideal professors in many of our classes. There is a reason why o-chem is notoriously known as the "weed out" class. The sooner you accept that it is you own fault that you failed out and nobody else's the better.

AACOMAS allows grade replacement. You can take this class again and it doesn't even have to be at your undergrad and your grade would be replaced. So, no you are not out of the rat race. Yes, you might end up having to delay applying when you had anticipated, but its not the end of the world.
 

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_______________________________

Myth: Organic Chemistry is "hard" and "impossible".
Truth: Organic Chemistry requires behavioral modification and intense work.

Myth: You get to medical school by studying 30 hours per week.
Truth: You get "promoted" to medical school by already functioning, studying, and performing at the level of a medical student, i.e. 80-100 hours per week.

My undergraduate degree focuses upon Organic Chemistry. My MSc, PhD and Postdoctoral Research Fellowship are in Organic Chemisty. Organic Chemistry was never "hard" or "impossible;" rather it was challenging. Perhaps this is why I chose to push myself in the only subject that really challenged me.

To learn Organic Chemistry, you must abandon memorization and understand the science. There is no other way outside of getting lucky.

I publish articles to help everyone succeed in Organic Chemistry, and I have a 100% success rate with those who follow the obtainable goals I set. This means that if you read my articles, follow my suggestions, set goals for yourself, and then deliver upon those goals, you will SUCCEED.

(1) Why Students Fail Organic Chemistry

(2) 2 Easy Tips for Excelling in Organic Chemistry

(3) 9 Golden Rules for Success in Organic Chemistry

(4) Sudoku for Organic Chemistry Mastery

(5) 7 Workout Areas in Organic Chemistry

(6) The Articles on Retrosynthesis


(7) Drama of the Alarms - Call for Time Management

(8) 7 Time Management Tips for the Successful Professional


There are many, many more articles. I suggest reading a few. The most important skill you can build before taking Organic Chemistry are your deductive reasoning skills. It's best when premeds take Organic Chemistry AFTER Physics in their 3rd or 4th year when the prefrontal cortex has had more time to mature. This is the deductive reasoning center.

You can succeed in Organic Chemistry. You simply need to be committed to working Organic Chemistry problems diligently for 20 hours per week. It's that simple. Believe me, when you get into medical school, that 20 hours per week is going to seem like a premium vacation!

Best of luck to you!
Necrobump.....
 
Sep 13, 2012
3
0
Status
I honestly don't think you have a choice. In order to apply, you must pass so if you must take it at your college or somewhere else... then do so. It is best that you rid of the F if you wish to continue forward.

Good luck.

Okay so...I thought maybe I could pull out a C in Organic Chemistry (I have other threads on this)...but I just took the final and Failed.

I now have no idea what I'm going to do. I really don't want to take it over at my same college (for many reasons*), but I know it looks bad if I take it elsewhere...and also is it pretty much over now that I've got an F in Organic Chemistry on my transcript? I'm really freaking out here...I feel like crawling into bed and never coming out again - after all my hard work to get this far, to be stopped by Organic Chemistry.

*Reasons:
1 - Organic Chemistry is notoriously hard at my school. Maaaany fail.
2 - The prof. is not English, that could have caused part of the problem. He is the only Organic Chemistry prof.
3 - It is only offered in Fall. I have to take Biochemistry, which requires Organic Chemistry I-II as a pre-req, ASAP, and waiting till junior year to start the Orgo sequence over will delay graduation.
 

Quester

10+ Year Member
Feb 1, 2009
620
1
Maryland
Status
Medical Student
I honestly don't think you have a choice. In order to apply, you must pass so if you must take it at your college or somewhere else... then do so. It is best that you rid of the F if you wish to continue forward.

Good luck.
OP posted this is 2008; I don't think he's around anymore...lol
 

Dr Lennox

O-Chem Prof
Sep 8, 2012
6
1
California
lennoxtutoring.com
Status
Fellow [Any Field]
Necrobump.....

[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica]Knowledge of what is does not open the door directly to what should be. If one asks the whence derives the authority of fundamental ends, since they cannot be stated and justified merely by reason, one can only answer: they exist in a healthy society as powerful traditions, which act upon the conduct and aspirations and judgements of the individuals; they are there, that is, as something living, without its being necessary to find justification for their existence. They come into being not through demonstration but through revelation, through the medium of powerful personalities. One must not attempt to justify them, but rather to sense their nature simply and clearly.
~ Albert Einstein ~
.
 

Ost3oclast

It's Teh Internetz Dood!
7+ Year Member
Nov 3, 2010
3,269
136
In between here and there
Status
Medical Student
[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica]Knowledge of what is does not open the door directly to what should be. If one asks the whence derives the authority of fundamental ends, since they cannot be stated and justified merely by reason, one can only answer: they exist in a healthy society as powerful traditions, which act upon the conduct and aspirations and judgements of the individuals; they are there, that is, as something living, without its being necessary to find justification for their existence. They come into being not through demonstration but through revelation, through the medium of powerful personalities. One must not attempt to justify them, but rather to sense their nature simply and clearly.
~ Albert Einstein ~
.
Congrats. You quoted Einstein. Want a cookie?
 
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