I know I can Succeed with the Help of Jesus Christ

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And here come the "I'm superior because I don't discuss controversial issues on teh Interwebz" folks.

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Open criticism is fine. But equating a person's faith with a pet superstition is a bit hostile imo. It isn't like sitting in a special chair so that your team makes a comeback. For many, it's about finding support and comfort through dark times.
I'm discussing the actual claims made by the OP. Positive claims based on a book they think is supernaturally special aren't functionally different from positive claims based on a witch's notebook.
 
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And here come the "I'm superior because I don't discuss controversial issues on teh Interwebz" folks.
Social brownie points 10^x 1000

I don't think you people will ever appreciate the irony of your posts.

Most people who are still religious as adults are there because they have serious, real reasons to be. Why insult that when you willingly remain ignorant on their religion's text while at the same time mocking them for being uninformed.
You people act like edgy high schoolers who just realized that maybe religions AREN'T real, and then decided to rebel and stamp your feet every time it's mentioned.
What gives you the wisdom and knowledge to dismiss religions and those who practice them?
 
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I'm discussing the actual claims made by the OP. Positive claims based on a book they think is supernaturally special isn't functionally different from a positive claim based on a witch's notebook.
Honestly, I wouldn't equate a witch's notebook with a pet superstition if it helped someone get through dark times.
 
People get so uptight over what other people believe.
 
There are lots of problems with the Wager, of course, like: which deity are we talking about? What if you pick the wrong one?, etc...

Of course. And there's still the you're-going-to-hell-because-you-don't-believe-in-my-deity. So even if you follow a religion in accordance to the Wager, you're still going to hell by other standards. That's always been the caveat with religion, and I don't see that going away any time soon. Religion was used as a tool for social stratification thousands of years ago, and it's manipulated religion and all associated theories and debates (perhaps including this one?). Unfortunately the discussion of religion is always going to have an underlying level of hostility because it's been used to alienate people for so long.
 
I wouldn't go as far to say that any proselytizing has even occurred ITT. And there is a difference between "My deity has a plan for you" and "I don't buy it".

As some one who plans for the inevitable overthrowing of the US government, you should be forward thinking enough to understand the value of open criticism of popular beliefs within the public sphere and the important change which arrises from such unrest within the cultural milieu.
There's a difference between saying "I don't buy it" and insulting those with other beliefs. I don't think lesser of anyone for having any particular belief- well, aside from maybe Scientology, because Hubbard basically said "If I wanted to get rich I'd start a cult" and then did so to become rich, go figure.

And I'm right about the inevitable overthrowing of the government. No government lasts forever. The only question is, "will it fall in my lifetime?" To that I answer, "I doubt it." But, over the next 300 years? I give us a 50/50 shot at a revolution that results in the dissolution of the US government as it currently stands. Now, I'm not going out and proselytizing that view, telling people they should buy guns to save themselves and their families, because there's a chance things'll go to hell before they die- nah, I keep my views to myself for the most part.
 
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I know the argument, I just don't think it applies, necessarily. The Wager is that you can believe in god and A) live a good life and die having lived a good life (supposing belief leads to a good life), B) live a good life and die and go to heaven or C) not believe in god, die and go to hell because you were wrong. Therefore, you ought to believe in god.

There are lots of problems with the Wager, of course, like: which deity are we talking about? What if you pick the wrong one?, etc...

I get what you're saying, though.
In all fairness, I kind of side with the Pope on the, "good people that aren't Christians don't necessarily go to hell" side of the fence. I don't even know if I believe in hell, or in a unified sort of afterlife, as one man's heaven could very well be another man's hell, so how could there be only one heaven? Basically, religion isn't as cut and dry as Bible thumping sheeple that read it as 100% literal and hardcore atheists that want to see religion stricken from the earth as if it were a plague. Most of us are somewhere in between- not proselytizers, nor full of hate, nor judgmental. Hence why I kind of get irritated at atheists that have a persecutorial streak- they tend to think in absolutes that are as ignorant as those they so claim to despise.
 
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I don't think you people will ever appreciate the irony of your posts.

Most people who are still religious as adults are there because they have serious, real reasons to be. Why insult that when you willingly remain ignorant on their religion's text while at the same time mocking them for being uninformed.
You people act like edgy high schoolers who just realized that maybe religions AREN'T real, and then decided to rebel and stamp your feet every time it's mentioned.
What gives you the wisdom and knowledge to dismiss religions and those who practice them?
Most people are religious as adults because they were brought up in religion. When pressed to provide reasons that they believe, they often say something the the effect of "Well, I just believe".

You are far too fond of projecting the persecution complex. And why do you assume ignorance when 1) no one has made any statements regarding the specifics of a given religion, in this discussion and 2) when atheists and agnostics are more knowledgeable than believers on average? Your assumption is unfounded. Well, it's founded on a straw man.

You're calling us kids, essentially. Angsty kids. I'm quite tempted to not even engage you further. Criticism of religion = rebellious counterculture. Also, we must think we're so very smart to criticize people's religions. Arrogant non-believers! Absolut Dummkopf!
 
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When pressed to provide reasons that they believe, they often say something the the effect of "Well, I just believe".

That's kind of the point.

I'm not even sure what you guys are arguing at this point.
Are you just arguing against religion? All of it? What exactly is prompting this of you?

You realized you criticized me of strawmannirg and then proceeded to to strawman in your very post.
Science, bud. Science.
I'm not even sure what you're trying to say here.
 
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That's kind of the point.

I'm not even sure what you guys are arguing at this point.
Are you just arguing against religion? All of it? What exactly is prompting this of you?

You realized you criticized me of strawmannirg and then proceeded to to strawman in your very post.
*in dalek voice* EXPLAIN! EXPLAIN!!


Making a bit of a joke of your post is not a straw man, btw, if that's what you're after.
 
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That's kind of the point.

I'm not even sure what you guys are arguing at this point.
Are you just arguing against religion? All of it? What exactly is prompting this of you?

You realized you criticized me of strawmannirg and then proceeded to to strawman in your very post.

I'm not even sure what you're trying to say here.
The funniest part is that he used the word strawman wrong.

*in dalek voice* EXPLAIN! EXPLAIN!!


Making a bit of a joke of your post is not a straw man, btw, if that's what you're after.
You really are quite obnoxious.

I'm not in the mood to hear you babble on about things you don't completely understand. I'm sick of my fellow undergrads talking like their opinions on religion matter at all. Is social tact really so dead? I'm sick of the immaturity.
I don't come to sdn for this, why is this thread still up?
 
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The funniest part is that he used the word strawman wrong.


You really are quite obnoxious.

I'm not in the mood to hear you babble on about things you don't completely understand. I'm sick of my fellow undergrads talking like their opinions on religion matter at all. Is social tact really so dead? I'm sick of the immaturity.
I don't come to sdn for this, why is this thread still up?

I regret going on for so long.
It takes another Floridian to talk sense.
By the way, can I PM you about undergrad?
 
@Orientaddled I'll elaborate.

I believe that science presently permits anyone of average intelligence, access to the Internet and/or some public means of education, and a dash of skepticism, to easily and completely dismiss religion.

Whether they choose to or not is "whatever" to me, but I reserve the right to dismiss or be skeptical of their opinion on just about anything because they have a bias as a result of their belief system and its explanation of our existence that is entirely unfounded on facts (read: science).
 
In the time it took you to type out your post, >20 children died slow painful deaths from thirst and starvation. But yea I'm sure god was gunning for your 509 ;)
 
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The funniest part is that he used the word strawman wrong.


You really are quite obnoxious.

I'm not in the mood to hear you babble on about things you don't completely understand. I'm sick of my fellow undergrads talking like their opinions on religion matter at all. Is social tact really so dead? I'm sick of the immaturity.
I don't come to sdn for this, why is this thread still up?
(S)he made up a position no one held then criticized it. That's the definition of that particular fallacy.

You didn't like the dalek joke? And what's with the constant accusations of ignorance? No one is speaking to religious specifics.
 
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Since this thread is already a trainwreck, can we all at least agree to one thing? Regardless of one's religious or political beliefs, anyone who approves of Jurgen Klinsmann as manager of the US National team is a terrible person who should never be allowed to be a doctor.
 
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OP, I'm not sure that Jesus Christ was your best choice for increasing your MCAT score. I am a devout follower of Lord Xenu and he has blessed me with a 527 MCAT. I have also heard that following the Buddha's teachings has led to MCAT scores of 515+. Apparently his words about inner peace really helps you on the CARS section.

@md-2020 knows all about Lord Xenu :p
 
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Nope, that's not how it works. Sorry, but posting dated, mythological beliefs on a pre-medical, internet forum in 2015 is going to receive criticism and for good reason. The reason is, is that it's 2015 and people are educated. I read posts like these just like anti-vaxerz and GMO nuts. Idiocy, mental illness, or willful ignorance.

That's alright though, religion will continue to die a slow death. The rate of such will ten-fold once medical innovations continue, sparing people even a most extreme reason to give Jesus a chance.

Let me be clear, I have been talking about religion here. Fictional works of humans - not the possibility of a greater thing or things. I am not an atheist.

You don't understand;
Religion is actually very beneficial to society as it brings structure, and order.
We wouldn't have progressed so rapidly without religion.. Religion drove mankind to conquer, to share ideas, to unite under ONE banner.
Religion united people of all walks of life, from all continents.
If Christianity/Islam ceased to exist today the world would be in a lot of trouble. All the people that get along probably won't be getting along so well. They won't have anything similar to relate to either.
Religion helps people relate to others..

Further, maybe you should step off your high horse and realize that you are not better than anybody else just because you are a "skeptic".
There are many highly accomplished religious folks, and religion has contributed *greatly* to science.
Father of Genetics? Mendel
Father of Algebra? ibn Musa al-Khwarizmi ( a muslim)
Father of Astronomy? Nicolaus Copernicus

Of course, there are many contributions from Skeptics as well such as Einstein.
The point here is that you can't just state that people who hold religious beliefs are uneducated. That is extremely silly, and based off ignorant beliefs that have no solid foundation. With such a generalization your are saying almost the entire worlds population is uneducated.
Some of these people I will remind you are FAR more educated than you, and I. They are accomplished, and well respected in their fields.
Dr.Carson would be one of the most prominent conservative surgeons, and he was deeply religious. He was an extremely accomplished surgeon as well.
FYI: http://chronicle.uchicago.edu/050714/doctorsfaith.shtml
" 76 percent of doctors believe in God and 59 percent believe in some sort of afterlife. The survey, performed by researchers at the University and published in the July issue of the Journal of General Internal Medicine, found that 90 percent of doctors in the United States attend religious services at least occasionally, compared to 81 percent of all adults. Fifty-five percent of doctors say their religious beliefs influence how they practice medicine."

Hmm... I suppose it would be in your best interest to refrain from large generalizations like the one you made.. You just put your foot in your mouth.
"The reason is, is that it's 2015 and people are educated."
So are all these doctors, and acclaimed scientists/surgeons uneducated?
 
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I saw the word superstition, myth, and a ton of name calling :/ contrary to popular belief Christians do have a basis of evidence for their beliefs...What do you think of the phophecies in the book of Daniel in the bible predicting the rise and fall of Babylon, of Greece, of Persia, and the rise of Rome and our now civilization? That part really got me. Im not ever going to down an atheist for not believing or calling him foolish, even though bible already says they are :p...
Christianity is the popular belief.

I don't find prophecies to be at all impressive. There's a gazillion, but here's one link about the subject.

The fact the the bible says that the people who don't believe in what the bible teaches are fools isn't surprising.
 
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You don't understand;
Religion is actually very beneficial to society as it brings structure, and order.
We wouldn't have progressed so rapidly without religion.. Religion drove mankind to conquer, to share ideas, to unite under ONE banner.
Religion united people of all walks of life, from all continents.
If Christianity/Islam ceased to exist today the world would be in a lot of trouble. All the people that get along probably won't be getting along so well. They won't have anything similar to relate to either.
Religion helps people relate to others..

Further, maybe you should step off your high horse and realize that you are not better than anybody else just because you are a "skeptic".
There are many highly accomplished religious folks, and religion has contributed *greatly* to science.
Father of Genetics? Mendel
Father of Algebra? ibn Musa al-Khwarizmi ( a muslim)
Father of Astronomy? Nicolaus Copernicus

Of course, there are many contributions from Skeptics as well such as Einstein.
The point here is that you can't just state that people who hold religious beliefs are uneducated. That is extremely silly, and based off ignorant beliefs that have no solid foundation. With such a generalization your are saying almost the entire worlds population is uneducated.
Some of these people I will remind you are FAR more educated than you, and I. They are accomplished, and well respected in their fields.
Dr.Carson would be one of the most prominent conservative surgeons, and he was deeply religious. He was an extremely accomplished surgeon as well.
FYI: http://chronicle.uchicago.edu/050714/doctorsfaith.shtml
" 76 percent of doctors believe in God and 59 percent believe in some sort of afterlife. The survey, performed by researchers at the University and published in the July issue of the Journal of General Internal Medicine, found that 90 percent of doctors in the United States attend religious services at least occasionally, compared to 81 percent of all adults. Fifty-five percent of doctors say their religious beliefs influence how they practice medicine."

Hmm... I suppose it would be in your best interest to refrain from large generalizations like the one you made.. You just put your foot in your mouth.
"The reason is, is that it's 2015 and people are educated."
So are all these doctors, and acclaimed scientists/surgeons uneducated?

While I can't defend all of these arguments, his general sentiment that it's silly to dismiss people for being religious is correct.
 
Since this thread is already a trainwreck, can we all at least agree to one thing? Regardless of one's religious or political beliefs, anyone who approves of Jurgen Klinsmann as manager of the US National team is a terrible person who should never be allowed to be a doctor.

Did you see that ludicrous display?
 
OP has to be a troll, because if someone really believed in the power of prayer, and that Jesus really wanted them to go to medical school, then they wouldn't need to study at all. Studying shows a lack of faith. And if Jesus wanted OP to go to medical school, why did they get a low score the first time around?

What do you think of the phophecies in the book of Daniel in the bible predicting the rise and fall of Babylon, of Greece, of Persia, and the rise of Rome and our now civilization? That part really got me. Im not ever going to down an atheist for not believing or calling him foolish, even though bible already says they are

The book of Daniel was written long after the fall of Babylon, Greece, and Persia. It was written in the second century BC(E) during the revolt of the Jewish Maccabees against the Seleucid Greek Kingdom. It didn't anticipate any events accurately. It describes past events accurately, and future events are not predicted correctly, such as the Maccabee victory.
 
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I actually apologize for my earlier post. If you think Klinsmann should still be managing the national team, you're basically Hitler.

/JK just threw an injured, out of position Bedoya under the bus in the press conference

At this point, we only have one option ... bring back Freddy Adu
 
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At this point, we only have one option ... bring back Freddy Adu

Haha. I'd be tempted to catch a Rowdies game next time I'm in Tampa to see how he's doing but Wiki says he has only made one appearance this year.

There are some seriously nuts results in CONCACAF tonight. Guatemala on verge of elimination. Jamaica needs a goal in the next 5 minutes or so or they're out too (Yup, the same Jamaica that flat out outplayed the US in the Gold Cup).

Edit: and as soon as I post that, Jamaica score AND get a red card.
 
OP has to be a troll, because if someone really believed in the power of prayer, and that Jesus really wanted them to go to medical school, then they wouldn't need to study at all. Studying shows a lack of faith. And if Jesus wanted OP to go to medical school, why did they get a low score the first time around?



The book of Daniel was written long after the fall of Babylon, Greece, and Persia. It was written in the second century BC(E) during the revolt of the Jewish Maccabees against the Seleucid Greek Kingdom. It didn't anticipate any events accurately. It describes past events accurately, and future events are not predicted correctly, such as the Maccabee victory.

Because he didn't PRAY the first time around!

*Accepting my one way ticket to hell now*
 
Lol, impeccable grammar and spelling in your multi-paragraph posts, yet you misspelled Burnett :laugh:
It's doubly sad because Burnett's was my college vodka of choice.
Burnetts_Vodka_Big-500x500.jpg
 
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I am guilty of this as well, but I find it interesting how whenever someone comes off as condescending, narrow-minded, pedantic, or just a jerk on SDN, our immediate response is, "Wow...you are going to act like that with your patients??!" Then the accused replies with, "Well of course I wouldn't be this way around patients."

Idk, I feel like your major issue would never be with patients. For the sake of argument, let's say what you post online is actually a true reflection of who you are; your true self and feelings without inhibitions. I feel like your major issues would be with your professional colleagues and not patients (at least directly). I mean, I think it would be easy enough to keep a "game face" around patients (you know, like not cussing in front of your mother), but as time goes along, you start to feel more comfortable around the people you work with. As you feel more comfortable, you get less guarded. When you get less guarded, you act more like yourself. If your true self sucks, team dynamics are messed up because the team doesn't want to work with you. And this is applicable to pretty much any profession, not just medicine.

Sorry, just felt like being litigious on this fine evening.
 
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It's doubly sad because Burnett's was my college vodka of choice.
Burnetts_Vodka_Big-500x500.jpg
I love how they have the word "premium" on a plastic bottle, akin to PBR being voted "America's Best Beer in 1893".
 
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Popular belief as in here on SDN... And that website showed many prophecies being fulfilled and some yet to be fulfilled ( when Jesus comes back) so...
And let's not use wiki pages that active religion haters come and change. Let's try to atleast be objective and neutral.




The book of Daniel has been carbon dated to before the actual events took place. Evidence? The Dead Sea scrolls.
You can't attack the site and ignore the information. What about all the prophecies which were just plain wrong? Again, none of that is impressive, especially when it's easy for imaginative writers to make vague predictions like "there will be wars and rumors of wars". No sheit Sherlock.

I know to believers it's like super cool and somehow constitutes evidence, but you're starting with the assumption that the bible is true anyway, and filling in any vague connections as prophetic fulfillment.


But I'm not going to discuss this any further with someone who thinks I'm a fool because their magic desert book says so.
 
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:p:p:p
You can't attack the site and ignore the information. What about all the prophecies which were just plain wrong? Again, none of that is impressive, especially when it's easy for imaginative writers to make vague predictions like "there will be wars and rumors of wars". No sheit Sherlock.

I know to believers it's like super cool and somehow constitutes evidence, but you're starting with the assumption that the bible is true anyway, and filling in any vague connections as prophetic fulfillment.


But I'm not going to discuss this any further with someone who thinks I'm a fool because their magic desert book says so.

They always leave when things start to get good. Bummer. Quite convenient though isn't it :p.
 
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There's a difference between saying "I don't buy it" and insulting those with other beliefs. I don't think lesser of anyone for having any particular belief- well, aside from maybe Scientology, because Hubbard basically said "If I wanted to get rich I'd start a cult" and then did so to become rich, go figure.

And I'm right about the inevitable overthrowing of the government. No government lasts forever. The only question is, "will it fall in my lifetime?" To that I answer, "I doubt it." But, over the next 300 years? I give us a 50/50 shot at a revolution that results in the dissolution of the US government as it currently stands. Now, I'm not going out and proselytizing that view, telling people they should buy guns to save themselves and their families, because there's a chance things'll go to hell before they die- nah, I keep my views to myself for the most part.
Doing that more would more closely resemble the op than people responding to him/her. If someone adamantly claimed that the us government would never fall, would you then share your opinion that it will?
 
hey OP: you're getting slandered pretty hard on here, but i admire your courage. props to you. keep the faith, take the hits, and turn the other cheek.

I acutely empathize with your sentiments. prayer was the foundation of my MCAT prep as i jumped from a 21 to a 510. i believe that your faith, courage, and tenacity will truly allow you to encounter people as more than just a chemical system, but a human person. i am a fan of letting your faith be more through actions than through words in the professional setting...but SDN is not a professional setting, so props to you OP.

trolls: i am not saying it is the only way to encounter people, so lay off.
 
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Doing that more would more closely resemble the op than people responding to him/her. If someone adamantly claimed that the us government would never fall, would you then share your opinion that it will?
I would respectfully disagree, but what is missing in many of the replies to the OP is respect.
 
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OP is not being slandered. (S)he is being criticized. Slander is defamation, and no such thing has happened. The persecution complex is so thick, one could cut it with a knife. "Keep the faith - take the hits - turn the other cheek"? As if it's so very hard and a sacrifice to be a Christian in a country which has more than 320,000 churches. :rolleyes:
 
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Additionally, if a Christian echo chamber is what you're after, go to one of the many churches in your area.
 
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