I know I can Succeed with the Help of Jesus Christ

[WingedOx]

Yep, extreme atheists are just as bad as extreme religious fanatics.

They both have super strong opinions that rub people the wrong way.

How others are rubbed by one's opinions are hardly a judgment on the validity of said opinions.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[StudyLater]

Christian Extremist: Bombing abortion clinics
Muslim Extremist: Beheading fellow believers
Atheist Extremist: Publishing scientific research papers

(It was from a picture but can't seem to find it, so I typed it as best as I can remember)

 

[JustintheDoctor]

You're awesome

 

[StudyLater]

How others are rubbed by one's opinions are hardly a judgment on the validity of said opinions.

A physician said it. Therefore, it is true.

/thread.

 

[Gandyy]

Christian Extremist: Bombing abortion clinics
Muslim Extremist: Beheading fellow believers
Atheist Extremist: Publishing scientific research papers

(It was from a picture but can't seem to find it, so I typed it as best as I can remember)

Lol. There are lot of people heavily involved in science and academia who are also religious though.

 

[Gandyy]

How others are rubbed by one's opinions are hardly a judgment on the validity of said opinions.

The reason they rub people the wrong way is because those said opinions are so extreme.

If an extreme religious fanatic tells you that you are a heathen for drinking alcohol, and that God condemns you, that is not going to settle well with many people.

If an extreme atheist tells you that you are stupid for thinking a God exists and that religion is a total farce, that is not going to settle well with many people either.

Extreme, strong opinions in general just do not settle well with anyone, and religion is a specially touchy subject to have extreme opinions about.

 

[swivelj]

@gothicfoxes @Orientaddled @AlfonsTheGuru I'm going to jiu jitsu, so I'll leave this.

I read most of your posts in this thread and don't you dare deny this... You are the biggest Joe Rogan/Sam Harris fanboy ever.... Amirite?

 

[Mad Jack]

Everyone knows that grey goose is the best.

I'd give it a close third, behind Van Gogh and Chopin.

 

[deleted407021]

Christian Extremist: Bombing abortion clinics
Muslim Extremist: Beheading fellow believers
Atheist Extremist: Publishing scientific research papers

(It was from a picture but can't seem to find it, so I typed it as best as I can remember)

This x1000

There's a reason atheists who play a little rough during discourse are equated with people who fly planes into buildings ... they are going against the very, very strong grain of religiosity within society, so when a theist makes a positive claim and an atheist says, "I don't believe you and I think your idea is kinda stupid", everyone loses their minds. *insert Joker meme*

This is a cute animation. Exaggerated of course, but it gets my point across comedically.

 

[Silence in ER]

I'm very interested to know how this plays out, and how this coincides with your faith.

Did they excommunicate you?

No. I'm not catholic. They just shook their head at me and told me "I was working too much by my own understanding and hadn't received divine insight"

meh.

I didn't care.

I'm not an evangelical christian or atheist. moderation is more my style.

 

[Mad Jack]

Christian Extremist: Bombing abortion clinics
Muslim Extremist: Beheading fellow believers
Atheist Extremist: Publishing scientific research papers

(It was from a picture but can't seem to find it, so I typed it as best as I can remember)

There aren't a whole lot of atheists, so there is much less of a chance for them to resort to extremism. But there certainly are atheists that are extremists- the Unabomber is one notable example that comes to mind, but many eco-terrorists have been of the highly liberal, atheistic variety as well. As atheism grows, we'll see how its extremism plays out.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

Are you insinuating that people only commit atrocities in the name of religion? Are you forgetting about Pol Pot, Hitler, and Stalin?

 

[Mad Jack]

Are you insinuating that only religious people commit atrocities? Are you forgetting about Pol Pot, Hitler, and Stalin?

I guess they think mass murder is okay as long as you do it logically.

 

[deleted407021]

Are you insinuating that people only commit atrocities in the name of religion? Are you forgetting about Pol Pot, Hitler, and Stalin?

Hitler was Catholic, but okay.

 

[Mad Jack]

Hitler was Catholic, but okay.

Hitler said: "The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity." Bullock wrote that Hitler was a rationalist and materialist who saw Christianity as a religion "fit for slaves" and against the natural law of selection and survival of the fittest.

http://vho.org/aaargh/fran/livres10/HTableTalk.pdf

Truly the words of a devout Catholic.

 

[JustintheDoctor]

Are you insinuating that people only commit atrocities in the name of religion? Are you forgetting about Pol Pot, Hitler, and Stalin?

I guess you forgot

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

Hitler was Catholic, but okay.

So he killed millions of Jews under the banner of Catholicism?

What did religion have to do with Pol Pot's attempt to "cleanse" Cambodia of its professional class?

 

[JustintheDoctor]

Hitler said: "The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity." Bullock wrote that Hitler was a rationalist and materialist who saw Christianity as a religion "fit for slaves" and against the natural law of selection and survival of the fittest.

http://vho.org/aaargh/fran/livres10/HTableTalk.pdf

Truly the words of a devout Catholic.

well considering the Catholic church gets their "followers" numbers by the people being baptized etc, Hitler does technically count as a Catholic.
In addition, Nazi buckles also had God on them

"God with us" I believe

 

[deleted407021]

I guess they think mass murder is okay as long as you do it logically.

None of what these people did was done in the name of atheism. Marx prescribed irreligiosity, however, most of these communist nations promoted nationalism and the deification of the state and the head of state, leading to a sort of cult for which people fought.

You don't have people yelling "God probably doesn't exist" before blowing themselves up, but you sure as hell have them yelling "God is great!"

 

[deleted407021]

So he killed millions of Jews under the banner of Catholicism?

What did religion have to do with Pol Pot's attempt to "cleanse" Cambodia of its professional class?

Idk man, I'm just pointing out that he was catholic.

 

[deleted407021]

well considering the Catholic church gets their "followers" numbers by the people being baptized etc, Hitler does technically count as a Catholic.
In addition, Nazi buckles also had God on them

"God with us" I believe

Translation : "God with us."

They also started a weird state church that would supposedly become the one world religion when they took over the planet

 

[Mad Jack]

well considering the Catholic church gets their "followers" numbers by the people being baptized etc, Hitler does technically count as a Catholic.
In addition, Nazi buckles also had God on them

Actually he was excommunicated in 1931 in part of a decree that excommunicated all leaders of the Nazi party, current and future. So no, he was not Catholic, by association or by action. Anyone using even the faintest hint of logic could clearly understand that a guy that has forsaken his religion and has been disowned by it is no longer a member of that religion. Hitler believed in social Darwinism and nothing more.

 

[fancymylotus]

What is going on in this thread? Need cliff notes version.

 

[Mad Jack]

Idk man, I'm just pointing out that he was catholic.

And I've just pointed out, twice, that he was not. Please make a logical argument for how an excommunicated person that declared Christianity to be a false creation by the Jews could be a Christian?

 

[JustintheDoctor]

Actually he was excommunicated in 1931 in part of a decree that excommunicated all leaders of the Nazi party, current and future. So no, he was not Catholic, by association or by action. Anyone using even the faintest hint of logic could clearly understand that a guy that has forsaken his religion and has been disowned by it is no longer a member of that religion. Hitler believed in social Darwinism and nothing more.

What about my picture above and what he made his followers wear?

 

[deleted407021]

What is going on in this thread? Need cliff notes version.

Religious person : "Jesus made me score better on the MCAT" *bounces*
Atheists : "LOL, wat. That's dumb."
Theists : "Noooo!! Respect our beliefs about magic MCAT faith tutoring!"
*in comes Godwin's Law*

And now we're here.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

Idk man, I'm just pointing out that he was catholic.

And I was just pointing out that extremism exists outside of religion.

 

[Mad Jack]

What about my picture above and what he made his followers wear?

You do realize that those were the traditional belt buckles of the Weimar Republic and were kept for historical reasons, in the same way that we have In God We Trust still printed on our money, right?

 

[deleted407021]

And I've just pointed out, twice, that he was not. Please make a logical argument for how an excommunicated person that declared Christianity to be a false creation by the Jews could be a Christian?

He wasn't excommunicated until after his death. He was baptized into the church and made agreements with the Varican as Chancellor of Germany. He frequently attended mass.

While he was Catholic and very well may have practiced, I'm inclined to think he was using religiosity to his own ends.

Like G. W. Bush, in a way lol

 

[Mad Jack]

He wasn't excommunicated until after his death. He was baptized into the church and made agreements with the Varican as Chancellor of Germany. He frequently attended mass.

While he was Catholic and very well may have practiced, I'm inclined to think he was using religiosity to his own ends.

Like G. W. Bush, in a way lol

http://www.churchinhistory.org/pages/leaf-sum/catholicsvnazis.htm

In February 1931, the German bishops excommunicated all active Nazi party members. This included Hitler. This penalty was not imposed on those who merely voted Nazi. It was hoped to persuade them by argument. The same policy was in operation against the Communists.

There was no need to excommunicate him after his death. In any case, he was very vocal about his distaste for Christianity, and likely would have tried to create a "pure" religion had he won the war. This makes him, by definition, not Christian in basically every way.

 

[JustintheDoctor]

Actually he was excommunicated in 1931 in part of a decree that excommunicated all leaders of the Nazi party, current and future. So no, he was not Catholic, by association or by action. Anyone using even the faintest hint of logic could clearly understand that a guy that has forsaken his religion and has been disowned by it is no longer a member of that religion. Hitler believed in social Darwinism and nothing more.

Another note I find interesting is, he never left the church in a formal matter.

You do realize that those were the traditional belt buckles of the Weimar Republic and were kept for historical reasons, in the same way that we have In God We Trust still printed on our money, right?

Yes, but for someone who hated religion so much, I wouldn't have thought he would make followers wear that. I don't believe in the "in god we trust", that shouldn't be allowed. Pretty weird how it was only put into effect pretty recently too.
E Plurbibus Unum, federal endorsement of a deity or religion violates the U.S. constitution

Please take everything I say with a grain of thought too, history was never my best subject, I never personally cared for it so i'm unaware of a lot of things

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

He wasn't excommunicated until after his death. He was baptized into the church and made agreements with the Varican as Chancellor of Germany. He frequently attended mass.

While he was Catholic and very well may have practiced, I'm inclined to think he was using religiosity to his own ends.

Like G. W. Bush, in a way lol

So are you arguing that people only commit atrocities due to their religious convictions?

 

[deleted407021]

http://www.churchinhistory.org/pages/leaf-sum/catholicsvnazis.htm

In February 1931, the German bishops excommunicated all active Nazi party members. This included Hitler. This penalty was not imposed on those who merely voted Nazi. It was hoped to persuade them by argument. The same policy was in operation against the Communists.

There was no need to excommunicate him after his death. In any case, he was very vocal about his distaste for Christianity, and likely would have tried to create a "pure" religion had he won the war. This makes him, by definition, not Christian in basically every way.

Well, there you go. While I stand corrected, this topic is apparently still hotly debated in academia, so who knows?

 

[deleted407021]

So are you arguing that people only commit atrocities due to their religious convictions?

No. Why do you think that?

 

[Gandyy]

So are you arguing that people only commit atrocities due to their religious convictions?

Yea, thats the vibe I'm getting off of J Senpai as well.

Most religious people do NOT run planes INTO skyscrapers.

Most religious people do NOT strap bombs to their chests and run into a whole building of people.

When it comes to strong extreme opinions, extreme atheists are JUST as bad as extreme religious fanatics.

And not all extreme atheists are publishing scientific journals lol. Many of them are in full goth mode loathing and hating everything.

My point is that the extreme ends of the religious scale is bad.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

Yea, thats the vibe I'm getting off of J Senpai as well.

Most religious people do NOT run planes INTO skyscrapers.

Most religious people do NOT strap bombs to their chests and run into a whole building of people.

I'm pretty sure suicide bombing originated in Sri Lanka and had nothing to do with Islam.

 

[Mad Jack]

Another note I find interesting is, he never left the church in a formal matter.

Yes, but for someone who hated religion so much, I wouldn't have thought he would make followers wear that. I don't believe in the "in god we trust", that shouldn't be allowed. Pretty weird how it was only put into effect pretty recently too.
E Plurbibus Unum, federal endorsement of a deity or religion violates the U.S. constitution

There were several belt designs, it's not like he had every soldier wearing that. But many people still thought fondly of the nods to the Weimar years, and wanted to keep them as a matter of pride in their past. Hitler wasn't exactly one to obsess over buttons and buckles lol, he left such design decisions to one Hugo Boss, who made sure that the Nazis had uniforms that were stylish, terrifying, and nostalgic. In a way, we've got them to thank for making the perfect villain uniforms. Saying Hitler was a Christian because his design firm decided to use a nostalgic Weimar holdover that mentions God on a belt buckle is like saying Donald Trump loves sheep because his Mexican clothing designers chose to use wool in his suits.

 

[JustintheDoctor]

Yea, thats the vibe I'm getting off of J Senpai as well.

Most religious people do NOT run planes INTO skyscrapers.

Most religious people do NOT strap bombs to their chests and run into a whole building of people.

ummm... that's kinda the point of the EXTREMIST part lol

 

[deleted407021]

Yea, thats the vibe I'm getting off of J Senpai as well.

Most religious people do NOT run planes INTO skyscrapers.

Most religious people do NOT strap bombs to their chests and run into a whole building of people.

No **** Sherlock. Of course most people don't carry out acts of terror. Why waste the energy to even type this post?

My point is that people call outspoken atheists like Hitchens "militant" and clump them in with the religious extremists, which is absurd.

 

[deleted407021]

And "God probably doesn't exist and when we die, we're dead" is in no way, no how, in any rational way, even remotely analogous to "Let us take up weapons so that we may do the work of the lord. Amen!/Allah hu Akbar!/etc"

 

[Gandyy]

No **** Sherlock. Of course most people don't carry out acts of terror. Why waste the energy to even type this post?

My point is that people call outspoken atheists like Hitchens "militant" and clump them in with the religious extremists, which is absurd.

The vibe I was getting out of you from your posts on this thread was entirely something else.

If thats not the case, then thats cool.

 

[deleted407021]

The vibe I was getting out of you from your posts on this thread was entirely something else.

If thats not the case, then thats cool.

Sorry for getting snappy

 

[Gandyy]

And "God probably doesn't exist and when we die, we're dead" is in no way, no how, in any rational way, even remotely analogous to "Let us take up weapons so that we may do the work of the lord. Amen!/Allah hu Akbar!/etc"

I never said it was.

What I'm saying is that an atheist forcing their own opinions down someone's throat about how " you are stupid for believing in a God, etc" is just as bad as a religious fanatic forcing their opinions.

But lets forget about this. We both understand what the other is saying.

I for one am closer to being a deist than anything else.

 

[deleted407021]

I never said it was.

What I'm saying is that an atheist forcing their own opinions down someone's throat about how " you are stupid for believing in a God, etc" is just as bad as a religious fanatic forcing their opinions.

But lets forget about this. We both understand what the other is saying.

I for one am closer to being a deist than anything else.

So loud people are annoying to pretty much everyone and we should all chill and have a few beers? We might have a better society if it worked out that way.

 

[Mad Jack]

And "God probably doesn't exist and when we die, we're dead" is in no way, no how, in any rational way, even remotely analogous to "Let us take up weapons so that we may do the work of the lord. Amen!/Allah hu Akbar!/etc"

The thing is atheism isn't that big of a thing yet. Someday, when you've got a lot of people that are atheists, you'll start getting some stupid as **** atheists. Right now, we only get the occasional Unabomber, dictator, or ecoterrorist, because there's really only a very, very small population of atheists from which to draw. But crazy comes in all stripes. There have been dictators that were atheists, who killed those that opposed them to create what they viewed as "a better world." The Unabomber believed technology was harmful to humanity's future and the environment, so his targets were selected accordingly. Ecoterrorists tend to target development projects that they disagree with, and have killed people in the process. Ecoterrorists (and their animal activist brethren) tend to be white, educated, and non-religiously affiliated.

In 2008 the Federal Bureau of Investigation said eco-terrorists represented "one of the most serious domestic terrorism threats in the U.S. today" citing the sheer volume of their crimes (over 2,000 since 1979); the huge economic impact (losses of more than $110 million since 1979); the wide range of victims (from international corporations to lumber companies to animal testing facilities to genetic research firms); and their increasingly violent rhetoric and tactics (one recent communiqué sent to a California product testing company said: "You might be able to protect your buildings, but can you protect the homes of every employee?").

Give it time. Atheists will catch up when their numbers do. Because at the end of the day, evil isn't about religion or political affiliation. It's part of human nature.

 

[Gandyy]

So loud people are annoying to pretty much everyone and we should all chill and have a few beers? We might have a better society if it worked out that way.

Umm.... yea. lol.

 

[deleted407021]

The thing is atheism isn't that big of a thing yet. Someday, when you've got a lot of people that are atheists, you'll start getting some stupid as **** atheists. Right now, we only get the occasional Unabomber, dictator, or ecoterrorist, because there's really only a very, very small population of atheists from which to draw. But crazy comes in all stripes. There have been dictators that were atheists, who killed those that opposed them to create what they viewed as "a better world." The Unabomber believed technology was harmful to humanity's future and the environment, so his targets were selected accordingly. Ecoterrorists tend to target development projects that they disagree with, and have killed people in the process. Ecoterrorists (and their animal activist brethren) tend to be white, educated, and non-religiously affiliated.

In 2008 the Federal Bureau of Investigation said eco-terrorists represented "one of the most serious domestic terrorism threats in the U.S. today" citing the sheer volume of their crimes (over 2,000 since 1979); the huge economic impact (losses of more than $110 million since 1979); the wide range of victims (from international corporations to lumber companies to animal testing facilities to genetic research firms); and their increasingly violent rhetoric and tactics (one recent communiqué sent to a California product testing company said: "You might be able to protect your buildings, but can you protect the homes of every employee?").

Give it time. Atheists will catch up when their numbers do. Because at the end of the day, evil isn't about religion or political affiliation. It's part of human nature.

Interesting idea. I raised a similar question in my psych of religion class about whether or not atheists or whatever may eventually form sort of denominations. Idk.

 

[Mad Jack]

Interesting idea. I raised a similar question in my psych of religion class about whether or not atheists or whatever may eventually form sort of denominations. Idk.

They will. But they will be philosophical. Transhumanists, naturalists, non-transhumanist futurists, luddites, and on and on. Mankind always finds a way to divide itself and hate one another. Religion is just a lens through which we have seen that capacity in the past, but even without it, we would find a way to do so in the future.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

Interesting idea. I raised a similar question in my psych of religion class about whether or not atheists or whatever may eventually form sort of denominations. Idk.

All it takes is an extreme adherence to a specific ideology. It could be religion, politics, whatever...

 

[deleted407021]

They will. But they will be philosophical. Transhumanists, naturalists, non-transhumanist futurists, luddites, and on and on. Mankind always finds a way to divide itself and hate one another. Religion is just a lens through which we have seen that capacity in the past, but even without it, we would find a way to do so in the future.

Almost certainly, I'm afraid.