a4n8y9

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Hi
I am a new member in Studentdoctor.com .
I learned a lot from the forums ,and there is still a lot more to learn ..
This is such a lovely website !
I liked reading your
answers & replies to other
members.I appreciated your help
to other friends.
I wish you bother to read about me and my problem too:
I am general practitioner in Turkey,
who has graduated from med. faculty in 1995.Before that I ‘ve finished an
American style school (we call it college here).This school accepts students by an exam after elementary school.
Just after educating in a prepatory class
where we learned English for a year,I continued educating most of the courses in English
such as maths, science;chemistry, physics, biology ,English Literature etc by American
and English teachers.Passing the university entrance exam ,I've educated in Medicine for 6 years in Turkish.
My med. school and diploma are recognized by WHO.
I took a short course about emergency service.I am now working in the ER for 3 years in a government hospital.
I have intended to study for USMLE since last winter .I understood that studying for this this exam is only available in USA and Canada..Since I can not keep up with the updated books and data for the exam .I know that it is such a difficult exam even for the American students.Financially it is too expensive to do that too.
I made up my mind in working as a PA in US .In order to get into a PA college ,what kind of exams -besides TOEFL &MCAT-,do I have to pass ?And for the school tution ,are there any means of loans or scholarships for foreigners?
I heard that I may work as a PA in Florida ,is that true?What kind of qualifications are needed for that?
I hope you give me the sufficent data and web sites and e-mail addresses that
I can inform .Thank you from now on.I will be looking forward to your guidance.
 

gower

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Go to: <a href="http://www.aapa.org/" target="_blank">www.aapa.org/</a>

That is the web site for the American Association of Physician Assistants.

"Physician Assistant" is a technical term for those who have completed a specific course of study in an accredited US PA program.

If by "work in Florida as a PA" you mean be able to do that based only on your Turkish medical degree, the only reliable source of verification would have to come from the Florida state government itself, not hearsay from people. Even if I said I know (which I don't), you should not trust me; you must ask the Florida authorities before you make any plans. I do not know which branch of state government to ask nor do I have any telephone numbers and addresses for you.

Unless you are a US citizen or permanent resident, almost no sources of financial aid are available to you for study here.

In the US, if you want to make any use of your medical degree, you will have to through the Educational Commission on Foreign Medical Graduates, which you apparently know about.

Perhaps someone else with more knowledge than I will be able to be more encouraging.
 

lotchki6

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Greeting,

Welcome to our forum. In order to get into a PA program, there are several pre-reqs that must be completed..varying from program to program. I am really not sure how your foreign education will serve you in terms of satisfing pre-reqs..go to AAPA.org, get a list of schools you want to apply to, and ask the directors individually.
About being able to practice in FL. with your foreign medical license: In the past, Fl granted the right to US med school graduates to serve as PAs that couldnt pass the USMLE exam and I believe they did the same for foreign docs (pretty sure they did), however this is no longer the case. To the best of my knowledge, that practice has ceased, and the only way to serve as a PA in the USA is to graduate from a NCCPA/AAPA accredited PA program and pass the PA certifying examination.

Hope that helps,
Mike
 
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Freeeedom!

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Yeah, you could say practicing as a PA when you didn't even pass the USMLE is the back door way of being a Doc. Their needs to be tighter regulations to say the least.
 

lotchki6

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I agree, it was a terrible law, and I am pretty sure it didnt last too long (not sure how long exactly)..but it was a terrible insult to PAs and MDs alike..but that is florida for ya..haha, just kidding!!
 

Freeeedom!

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Smelly, so you think that law was OK? You are an absolute joke ya know. I would love to meet you some day just to see if you are for real.

Loose regulations and lax testing does nothing to improve the quality of professionals in respective fields.
 
S

smedley

Freedom,
First--I think the law allowing them to practice as PA`s was a joke. Get this thru your head--PA`s are different from MD`s! Last time here -- How much help is a PA to a physician if he/she only is familiar with the "top level" of medical knowledge? Believe it or not--there are many things taught in PA school that are not in med school. PA`s assist all types of physicians and the subspecialties and are prepared that way. I can assist in cataract surgery one day and oral surgery the next and ED on the weekends. While I am certain there are MD`s that can do this as well, it is not part of the training. The PA education is not med school because we are not doctors -- but a base of info or resourse to assist them. I seem to remember you post about your edu as a PT? I too am a lic. PT in New York. Did you know we covered much of that in PA school? OT as well. Oral/dental medicine? No?? How about paramedic? 10 years man. Oh and covered in PA school. That being said -- noone can practice as a PA without completeing a PA program. That includes MD`s.
Second -- You want to meet me???? Oh boy would I like that son. Get any free time freeeedom??? Let me know pal. Its on my dime. Ever hear of Krav Maga? Nope, thats not taught in PA school -- but I would love to enlighten you.

Grinning like an alligator -- smedley
 

cushing

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Smedley,

I think you shoud settle down. Everybody has the right to their own opinions. Strike one.

Krav Maga? Hmmm, what are you jewish? If you're a true martial arts practitioner you should know better than to use your abilities out of anger. Strike two my friend.

I have no problem with PAs...I run into them all the time...I believe they are fairly competant to a degree just like anybody else...Nobody knows everything...I think medicine is a team effort...However, I do believe that I am better trained and offer the highest level of care to my patients. Strike three...you're out!
 

CVPA

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"...fairly competant to a degree", give me a break :rolleyes: . Thank you for your magnanimous and qualified assessment of an entire profession.

Hey Smedley, the self-appointed umpire has struck you out! Guess that means you'll have to sit-out the rest of the inning. :D
 
S

smedley

Hmmmm, we need no facts, we have cushing infalable opinion! Krav Maga? I am not a Jew, not that that is a bad thing, I am Italian and Souix Indian -- thats right pal -- angry all the time and I dont know why! (he he) Tell me again how you understand Krav? Your reference to just martial arts means you dont understand the difference.

Opinions? certainly -- ignorant stupid comments degrading people who are trying to help??? No why pal. The only thing you said that was accurate was that NOONE practices medicine as an island. No ONE!
I will settle down when people stop going out of thier way to degrad others to make up for small dicks (freeeeedom.)
 

Freeeedom!

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Smedley, email me tough guy. Wow, aren't you just the little tough girl.

Listen, toughy, save your Krayola Magui or Kraft Mango or whatever for the ladies in your bridge club. You wanna come over and play...just send a private message sweet heart.

As for your oh so compelling arguments. Listen, PA's are great. Their job is to assist. I personally have worked with some, but I honestly think there should be both tighter regulation and more diverse and longer training, and yes, tighter restrictions.
But as assistants, they are great. There are times I feel they take away from the education of medical students when rounding. And there have been times I have felt they simply are in the way. But they have their role, and I would suspect, their role is to further push RN's out of many of their traditional roles in the office or on the floors. I can imagine a time when PA's work in an office similar to the RN that may work their now, but with an expanded role.

But also you clearly mentioned a weakness...assisting in the ED then Oral surgery then cataract surgery yadda yadda isn't always good. It provides for sloppiness because you aren't adequately trained in each field for a long enough time! I have been in college/graduate/medical school for 10 years and practiced for 3 years and I still don't think I have learned enough to practice without more training. Why? I have respect for my patients and their conditions. I don't want to be the person to stupidly make the mistake because I THOUGHT I could do anything.
Dude, listen up, for the friggin last time open your ears, if you were sooooooooo busy learning about OTHER professions...when did you learn the basic sciences? Are you a walking algorithm? Competancy is more than flexibility...

If you just would have read my post...


Smedley, private email me, if you feel like you really want to then go ahead. Then, promptly go to your PHYSICIAN, and get some needed HELP.
 
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S

smedley

Hmmm, no answer from freeedom yet? I sent a private message. You cant even talk tough pal. Hmmm, freeedomette?
 

rdennisjr

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Enough. This conversation has been hashed out between the two sides enough times and is now degenerating into playground tactics - next you'll be comparing how one of your dads can beat up the others dad. Please keep the conversation civil and to some degree at least related to the original thread question.

The discussion of PA training and skills and use versus physician training, skills, etc is a valid discussion - and in fact a vital one for everyone involved. However, this kind of behavior is of benifit to no one.

As a side note - the federal government (some departments at least) allows FMG's to work as a PA untill they pass their boards. Or at least they did - apparently some now are being required to attend a PA program if they wish to keep their position - as 4 students in my class are.

Dennis

PS - thanks for cleaning things up folks
 

CVPA

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What the hell are you guys doing!? What, are you going to get on a plane, fly to the other guy's house and then punch him in the face because you don't like what he is saying on a stupid website??!!

Your both supposed to be medical professionals and instead your acting like a couple of high school punks. Smedley, believe me, I understand and share your frustration and in fact I have posted things I probably shouldn't have out of anger and frustration. However, we need to combat ignorance of our profession with facts, logic, and maybe even a few sarcastic jabs for fun, but never threats of violence. I realize that he initially broached the topic of meeting you in his post of 11/19 and has equally perpetuated this, however, try not to let emotions rule your actions.
 
S

smedley

CVPA, as usual, you are correct. It wasnt long ago that I had to remind you of the same!! It is clear that there are some people , for whatever reason, who can not discuss topics like adults.
 

Freeeedom!

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Smelly...you just don't listen do you?


I REALLY think you need some help, whether that be via SSRI's, antipsychotics, or group therapy...anger management may help, sweetheart.

Listen, I will say it again, I have worked with PA's that are good...ya know, I am NOT gonna say it again.

Smedley, better watch out, I have been watching the WWF...bye bye toughy
 

CVPA

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Did you hear something..?? I think a fly was buzzing around my head....anyway, your right Smedley, it was not too long ago that you were reminding me of the same thing. Just goes to show that a little bit of peer review is a good thing ;) .

At least you have the maturity and insight to admit when you have gotten a little carried away. I wonder if others could ever rise to that level ............naaaaah, what was I thinking? :D
 

cushing

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Smedley,

You obviously have no idea of whom you are talking to. I along with my father were but a handful of individuals that were allowed and personally invited by the Israeli Ministry of Education as well as grandmaster Imi Lichtenfeld to come to Netanya in the 80s. I have also personally met Darren Levine and Eyal Yanilov. I have studied the martial arts for over 25 years now. Threatening another individual is in no way representative of a true martial science practitioner. That was what I was trying to get across to you. It looks like CVPA and rdennisjr beat me to it.
 
S

smedley

Cushing, invited by the Israeli Ministry of Education as well as grandmaster Imi Lichtenfeld? Wow, I would absolutely love to hear about that sometime. I am not being a smartguy here--that just blows me away. Darren Levine and Eyal Yanilov? dude, wow.

"a true martial arts practitioner you should know better than to use your abilities out of anger."

clearly, you are right. I agree with this wholeheartedly and probolbly should apologize, but as for the other "strikes" it might be best for you to do some reasearch before "busting a gut." For someone who seems to show a bit of enlightenment at times, it would serve you well.

As for freeedom, you are a small small man.
 

Mr. happy clown guy

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Smedley, dude, threatening someone over the internet...is NOT a good idea. I think you have bitten off a bit more more than you were prepared to chew with such hostility.

I am surprised that this has been allowed to continue.
 

Freeeedom!

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Wow, smedley you are a real idiot.

I honestly think you a bit imbalanced and need help. In fact, your threatening words border on true pathology. I wasn't kidding, you need help.

You can call me little man as much as you want, but it is quite clear you have a problem.
 

CVPA

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Freedom:

I knew it, I knew you were incapable of accepting any partial responsibility for this mess of a thread. Its always the other guy who is the angry jerk, right? You were just innocently surfing SDN when the deranged and mentally ill Smedley suddenly and without provication attacked and threatened poor Freedom, right? You didn't contribute to it at all, is that it? You never said "I would love to meet you some day just to see if you are for real." or "Smedley, better watch out, I have been watching the WWF...bye bye toughy" or "You are an absolute joke ya know", oh and lets not forget "Smedley, email me tough guy. Wow, aren't you just the little tough girl. Listen, toughy, save your Krayola Magui or Kraft Mango or whatever for the ladies in your bridge club. You wanna come over and play...just send a private message sweet heart".

Yeah, Smedley is the imbalanced one with the problem who needs anger management and drug therapy! Certainly not the omnipotent Freedom who is always gracious, humble, open-minded and never prone to antagonism.

You really are unbelievable.
 

Emedpa

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with all this perfectly good hostility going on between the major players on this forum I couldn't help but make a contribution.has anyone seen this study done at duke? comments?

DUKE STUDY SHOWS TRAINED AND SUPERVISED
PHYSICIAN ASSISTANTS
CAN SUCCESSFULLY PERFORM CARDIAC
CATHETERIZATIONS

ORLANDO, Fla.-- A study by Duke University Medical Center
researchers has shown that physician assistants, with proper
training and supervision of an experienced cardiologist, can
successfully perform cardiac catheterizations.

"Under the careful supervision of experienced attending
cardiologists, trained physician assistants can perform diagnostic
cardiac catheterization, including coronary angiography, with
procedural times and complication rates similar to those of
cardiology fellows. This is the first large study that demonstrates
that this is a safe practice," said Dr. Richard Krasuski, a Duke
cardiology fellow who led the study which was presented
Wednesday at the 50th Annual Scientific Session of the American
College of Cardiology.

Physician assistants (PAs), who originated at Duke in the 1960s,
work with physicians to provide diagnostic and therapeutic patient
care in virtually all medical specialties and settings. Cardiac
catheterization involves threading a thin catheter through a patient's
arteries until it reaches the heart. X-ray dye is then injected to
determine if the arteries are blocked.

"With cardiac catheterizations increasing more than 300 percent
during the last 10 years, physician assistants have begun performing
more of these procedures under the supervision of cardiologists.
However, there was insufficient evidence before this to support
whether this was a safe practice," Krasuski said.

The Duke study compared 929 diagnostic cardiac catheterizations
performed by PAs with supervision by a cardiologist to 4,521
catheterizations performed by cardiology fellows. Cardiology
fellows are physicians receiving three to four years of advanced
training in cardiology after completing an internal medicine
residency. The procedures were performed at Duke between July
1998, when PAs were first given approval by the institution to
perform the procedure, and April 2000. The patients in the two
groups were of similar demographics.

The study showed that the incidence of major complications, such
as myocardial infarction (heart attack), stroke, arrhythmia requiring
defibrillation or pacemaker placement, pulmonary edema requiring
mechanical ventilation and vascular complications requiring
surgicalintervention, were nearly identical in both groups. For PAs,
the complication rate was 0.54 percent as compared to a 0.58
percent complication rate for cardiology fellows.

Additionally, the cases performed by the PAs were done quicker
(70.2 minutes versus 72.6 minutes by the cardiology fellows), and
used less fluoroscopic time (10.2 minutes as compared to 12.2
minutes).
 

lotchki6

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Thanks for the article EmedPA, any idea widely accepted this has become for PAs around the country? CVPA, during your time in cardiac/vascular sugery, have you seen PAs perform this procedure?

Thanks guys,
Mike

PS - Discussions like this is what our forum is REALLY for!!
 

CVPA

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EMEDPA, you beat me to it. I was going to post the results of this study the other day but I wasn't sure where it was on the net. I am sure our estemed medical student colleagues are going to love this! LOL.

Mike:

I personally have not seen this but have heard of PAs doing arterial catheterizations. I got out of cardiac surgery last June and am now working in cardiac electrophysiology. Since June, I have actually done two right heart (venous)catheterizations. My EP attending eventually wants me to be routinely putting in the venous sheaths and advancing the electrode catheter into the right atrium to get some basic electrical measurements of the intra-cardiac conduction pathway. At that point, he would take over and do the actual ablation or ventricular stimulation, depending on what the patient needs.
 
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