I wanna do pre-med but I don't know how...

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Should I pursue pre-med?

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  • ABSOLUTELY NOT

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ladreamin

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I'll be a freshman this Fall and I really want to pursue pre-med.

I'm an international student and so I need to go to med school (if I can reach that stage, that is) right after undergrad, w/o taking a gap year, due to visa issues. So my question is, is that possible if I take my MCAT in the summer after my junior year and then apply for med school? If yes, then will I be inexperienced (since I won't have that many ECAs under my belt) and not mature enough (I'll be 22 at the end of Fall semester of my Junior year) and have lesser chances of getting in or will I not have enough time to create good applications and write a good PS and secondaries and possibly attend interviews (if I'm called in, that is) during my senior year?
Because from what I've researched (and correct me if I'm wrong), it is not possible to take the MCAT by sophomore year since I'll just have to cram in a lot of pre-reqs, which will most likely, in turn, hurt my GPA. I'm completely at a loss.

I really really really want to become a doctor and there's nothing I wouldn't do to have a strong med school application but I also don't want to plan my first two years full of rigorous courses and ECAs because I don't think I'll be able to handle that. But I'd like to hear about opinions otherwise. And there's also no way I could afford a gap year since I can't stay in the US after my visa expires (which will be about 6 months after I graduate) and I don't have a student status anymore.

So anyone giving an insight as to how I could solve this problem will be HIGHLY HIGHLY appreciated. Thanks in advance.
I didn't expect it to be this long sorry but I hope I could get myself through.

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I don't know much about this but what happens with the VISA situation if you apply, get in and graduate with a US medical degree?
 
For starters, if that is you in your profile pic, you should probably consider changing your profile pic because this is an anonymous forum. No need to identify yourself to complete strangers.

As for your actual situation, it is possible to take the mcat at the end of your junior year and then apply that summer for med schools. I know many people who did just that and successfully got into med school. However, you should know that applying to med school as an international student is significantly harder/more competitive than applying as a US citizen. As such, I would advise you against rushing. For now, you can plan on applying during your senior year of college, but if after a year or two you feel like you are not putting together the ECs that would really make you the strongest candidate you could be, I would consider holding off on applying and going straight through. The process is very expensive and a failed cycle can be extremely taxing.

As far as your visa situation is concerned, I imagine that it will be difficult to find an employer who would be willing to sponsor you for a work visa. Given that, if you do end up having to take a gap years, I would consider looking into a Master's program of some type in a field that you find interesting. I am not sure if this possible (My knowledge of the US student immigration system is pretty second-hand), but you may be able to get your visa extended if you are still officially studying on a Master's in America. Many medical students end up doing a Master's in Public Policy/Global Health/Public Health either before or during med school because of how well it ties into the medical field mission of promoting health in society. Those could all be good ways to buy yourself more time to pick up ECs while still strengthening your application in general.

Considering that you are an international student, (if you have any interest in Global Health) a Master's in Global Health could make for a very compelling application. If you keep your stats high, you may do surprisingly well whenever you do choose to apply.
 
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I don't know much about this but what happens with the VISA situation if you apply, get in and graduate with a US medical degree?
Well, I haven't looked into it that far yet but I guess I get to apply for a visa again for my residency.
 
For starters, if that is you in your profile pic, you should probably consider changing your profile pic because this is an anonymous forum. No need to identify yourself to complete strangers.

As for your actual situation, it is possible to take the mcat at the end of your junior year and then apply that summer for med schools. I know many people who did just that and successfully got into med school. However, you should know that applying to med school as an international student is significantly harder/more competitive than applying as a US citizen. As such, I would advise you against rushing. For now, you can plan on applying during your senior year of college, but if after a year or two you feel like you are not putting together the ECs that would really make you the strongest candidate you could be, I would consider holding off on applying and going straight through. The process is very expensive and a failed cycle can be extremely taxing.

As far as your visa situation is concerned, I imagine that it will be difficult to find an employer who would be willing to sponsor you for a work visa. Given that, if you do end up having to take a gap years, I would consider looking into a Master's program of some type in a field that you find interesting. I am not sure if this possible (My knowledge of the US student immigration system is pretty second-hand), but you may be able to get your visa extended if you are still officially studying on a Master's in America. Many medical students end up doing a Master's in Public Policy/Global Health/Public Health either before or during med school because of how well it ties into the medical field mission of promoting health in society. Those could all be good ways to buy yourself more time to pick up ECs while still strengthening your application in general.

Considering that you are an international student, (if you have any interest in Global Health) a Master's in Global Health could make for a very compelling application. If you keep your stats high, you may do surprisingly well whenever you do choose to apply.

For starters, no it ain't me on that photo. I know I'm supposed to be anonymous but thanks for the concern. :)

And woah that's some really good advice (about a Master's in Global Health). If I do pre-med, I plan on majoring in neuroscience so do you think there could be a Master's degree related to that? Although Global Health works fine too although idk much about it rn.

But what you said about the competition for intl students being much tougher. When I said intl student I meant my UG will be in the US so that means I'm getting the same education as the other applicants. So why should it be tougher for me? And if it is, then do you think the graduate degree you talked about will be a plus point and bandage that intl student cut?

And yes, you are right about my visa being extended if I pursue a Master's in the US.

And the thing is, I am more concerned about not having a good application than about not having enough ECAs under my belt if I apply during senior year. I just don't want to end up not hearing back from any school because my essays and interviews sucked after all the effort I put in the applications when I'm supposed to be studying for senior year.

Thanks a lot for your answer btw.
 
For starters, no it ain't me on that photo. I know I'm supposed to be anonymous but thanks for the concern. :)
Just checkin. :)

If I do pre-med, I plan on majoring in neuroscience so do you think there could be a Master's degree related to that? Although Global Health works fine too although idk much about it rn.

You could probably find a neuroscience Master's program, although those are not the most common. If you are really interested in scientific research, a PhD program could also be a good option, although it may be a bit overkill for just medical school admissions. But if you have an independent interest in medical research, it may be worth considering. A lower commitment option that is still very research oriented would be to find a professor at your school who does research you like. If you work there throughout undergrad, they would probably be very receptive to hiring you/sponsoring your visa while you worked as a research tech. Obviously this wouldn't confer a degree at the end of it, but it would be a good way to make some money to help pay off the app cycle.

But what you said about the competition for intl students being much tougher. When I said intl student I meant my UG will be in the US so that means I'm getting the same education as the other applicants. So why should it be tougher for me? And if it is, then do you think the graduate degree you talked about will be a plus point and bandage that intl student cut?

It's unfortunate, but it is the truth. Most funding options for medical school are not available to non-US citizens/permanent residents. This makes adcoms very leery about admitting someone who may not be able to afford the bill. This apprehension and fear tends to produce some hesitance in extending offers, which is only overcome by having a really strong application. I have seen this prevent good friends from getting offers first-hand. This isn't just my hot take. You can read more about it here: International Applicants to US Medical Schools - Pre-Professional Advising

I think that this nationalist bias is complete bull**** and has no place in the 21st century, but it is the way it is. You have to play the hand you're given and there is no way around that.

And the thing is, I am more concerned about not having a good application than about not having enough ECAs under my belt if I apply during senior year. I just don't want to end up not hearing back from any school because my essays and interviews sucked after all the effort I put in the applications when I'm supposed to be studying for senior year.

Applying while still in school is a struggle for everyone. I applied my senior year and tbh it was hell going through the app cycle while trying to balance studying. On the other hand, going straight through is pretty nice. You don't have to find an apartment for just a year and do a job that may or may not be relevant to your career just because you need to fill the time. It has been really nice being able to have some degree of certainty regarding my future, compared to my peers who are taking a gap year and really don't know where they will be/what they will be doing in 15 months. The right option for you will be based on how you're feeling when it comes time to start thinking about the MCAT. That isn't for at least another two years, so I would honestly put this decision on the back-burner until then.
 
Just checkin. :)



You could probably find a neuroscience Master's program, although those are not the most common. If you are really interested in scientific research, a PhD program could also be a good option, although it may be a bit overkill for just medical school admissions. But if you have an independent interest in medical research, it may be worth considering. A lower commitment option that is still very research oriented would be to find a professor at your school who does research you like. If you work there throughout undergrad, they would probably be very receptive to hiring you/sponsoring your visa while you worked as a research tech. Obviously this wouldn't confer a degree at the end of it, but it would be a good way to make some money to help pay off the app cycle.



It's unfortunate, but it is the truth. Most funding options for medical school are not available to non-US citizens/permanent residents. This makes adcoms very leery about admitting someone who may not be able to afford the bill. This apprehension and fear tends to produce some hesitance in extending offers, which is only overcome by having a really strong application. I have seen this prevent good friends from getting offers first-hand. This isn't just my hot take. You can read more about it here: International Applicants to US Medical Schools - Pre-Professional Advising

I think that this nationalist bias is complete bull**** and has no place in the 21st century, but it is the way it is. You have to play the hand you're given and there is no way around that.



Applying while still in school is a struggle for everyone. I applied my senior year and tbh it was hell going through the app cycle while trying to balance studying. On the other hand, going straight through is pretty nice. You don't have to find an apartment for just a year and do a job that may or may not be relevant to your career just because you need to fill the time. It has been really nice being able to have some degree of certainty regarding my future, compared to my peers who are taking a gap year and really don't know where they will be/what they will be doing in 15 months. The right option for you will be based on how you're feeling when it comes time to start thinking about the MCAT. That isn't for at least another two years, so I would honestly put this decision on the back-burner until then.

Thanks a lot for your answer. I'll think about what you said.
One last thing though. Earlier you said it's possible to take the MCAT after junior year and still not take a gap year before med school. So, the timeline I'm thinking is:
June or July after Junior year: take MCAT.
Then apply in July the same year...?
Or did you mean take MCAT in January of Spring semester of Junior year? Because that would give me very less test prep time.
 
January of Junior year is one possibility, but like you said it can be difficult being prepped in time for that. The plus side of taking a January exam is that you will know your score well before the app cycle, so you can preplan all of the schools you want to apply to based on that score. This gives you more time to work on secondaries for those schools. Also, if something goes wrong, you can usually sign up for an April or May exam as a backup.

If you don't feel ready for January, most students usually aim for Mar/Apr exams. These exams still let you see your score before applying, but there is definitely a lot more time crunch with regards to picking your school list based on your MCAT. One downside of taking an exam here instead of January is that if your score is bad, there really isn't an opportunity to study up and take another exam prior to the app cycle. You are sort of stuck with what you have or you have to skip the cycle and gear up for a gap year.

While some applicants do take their MCAT in June/July of their app year, it usually isn't recommended because you don't get a chance to see your score before applying. You basically would be applying and telling schools that your score will be coming and whatever you get is what is sent. If your score is not what you expected, your school list may end up very off-target with this approach. That can mean a lot of app money burned. In addition, a late exam like that may prevent you from being able to get your app reviewed early which can be really beneficial in terms of securing interviews. General wisdom on SDN is to try and have your primary submitted on the first day apps open which is usually at the end of May/start of June.
 
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January of Junior year is one possibility, but like you said it can be difficult being prepped in time for that. The plus side of taking a January exam is that you will know your score well before the app cycle, so you can preplan all of the schools you want to apply to based on that score. This gives you more time to work on secondaries for those schools. Also, if something goes wrong, you can usually sign up for an April or May exam as a backup.

If you don't feel ready for January, most students usually aim for Mar/Apr exams. These exams still let you see your score before applying, but there is definitely a lot more time crunch with regards to picking your school list based on your MCAT. One downside of taking an exam here instead of January is that if your score is bad, there really isn't an opportunity to study up and take another exam prior to the app cycle. You are sort of stuck with what you have or you have to skip the cycle and gear up for a gap year.

While some applicants do take their MCAT in June/July of their app year, it usually isn't recommended because you don't get a chance to see your score before applying. You basically would be applying and telling schools that your score will be coming and whatever you get is what is sent. If your score is not what you expected, your school list may end up very off-target with this approach. That can mean a lot of app money burned. In addition, a late exam like that may prevent you from being able to get your app reviewed early which can be really beneficial in terms of securing interviews. General wisdom on SDN is to try and have your primary submitted on the first day apps open which is usually at the end of May/start of June.
Got it!1 Tysm :)
 
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What exactly is your Visa situation? You can apply for an extension after you graduate from undergrad, I believe. I would put first things first and focus on making straight As in college. Plan to take the MCAT 3rd or 4th year of college (this requires some time budgeting). Then re-evaluate based on GPA; make sure to fit in clincial/non-clinical ECs, shadowing, LORs, & work on your PS. Good luck.
 
I'll be a freshman this Fall and I really want to pursue pre-med.

I'm an international student and so I need to go to med school (if I can reach that stage, that is) right after undergrad, w/o taking a gap year, due to visa issues. So my question is, is that possible if I take my MCAT in the summer after my junior year and then apply for med school? If yes, then will I be inexperienced (since I won't have that many ECAs under my belt) and not mature enough (I'll be 22 at the end of Fall semester of my Junior year) and have lesser chances of getting in or will I not have enough time to create good applications and write a good PS and secondaries and possibly attend interviews (if I'm called in, that is) during my senior year?
Because from what I've researched (and correct me if I'm wrong), it is not possible to take the MCAT by sophomore year since I'll just have to cram in a lot of pre-reqs, which will most likely, in turn, hurt my GPA. I'm completely at a loss.

I really really really want to become a doctor and there's nothing I wouldn't do to have a strong med school application but I also don't want to plan my first two years full of rigorous courses and ECAs because I don't think I'll be able to handle that. But I'd like to hear about opinions otherwise. And there's also no way I could afford a gap year since I can't stay in the US after my visa expires (which will be about 6 months after I graduate) and I don't have a student status anymore.

So anyone giving an insight as to how I could solve this problem will be HIGHLY HIGHLY appreciated. Thanks in advance.
I didn't expect it to be this long sorry but I hope I could get myself through.
I don't know if this has been mentioned already but as an international student, you don't have to apply right out of undergrad. You can do an OPT which allows you to work for 1 year after graduation and up to 3 years if you're a STEM major. Also, as an international student, I would recommend you DO wait at least a year after graduating before you apply just because the bar is higher and it will help a great deal to have the few extra years of ECs under your belt. Every international student I know, myself included, that has been accepted to med school has taken at least one gap year. Either doing a Master's or working via OPT.
 
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T
I don't know if this has been mentioned already but as an international student, you don't have to apply right out of undergrad. You can do an OPT which allows you to work for 1 year after graduation and up to 3 years if you're a STEM major. Also, as an international student, I would recommend you DO wait at least a year after graduating before you apply just because the bar is higher and it will help a great deal to have the few extra years of ECs under your belt. Every international student I know, myself included, that has been accepted to med school has taken at least one gap year. Either doing a Master's or working via OPT.
Thank you. I will consider that.
 
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What exactly is your Visa situation? You can apply for an extension after you graduate from undergrad, I believe. I would put first things first and focus on making straight As in college. Plan to take the MCAT 3rd or 4th year of college (this requires some time budgeting). Then re-evaluate based on GPA; make sure to fit in clincial/non-clinical ECs, shadowing, LORs, & work on your PS. Good luck.

I will apply for F1 visa as soon as I get my I-20. For some reason, my uni hasn't given me that yet.
Thanks.
 
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Part of the answer depends on your time frame. Do you want to go directly into a medical school straight from undergrad? Or would you like to explore more options in the next 4 - 6 years?

The majority of people who matriculate these days (60-70%) take at least one gap year. For many of the friends I know who went straight through, they hit the ground running immediately freshman year. They pretty much knew that this was the plan and got down to work. There's a lot to achieve in 3 short years: earning a strong GPA, completing prerequisites, research, volunteering, shadowing, obtaining letters of recommendation, AND THEN the whole application process. That's a big part of why people take another 1-3 years to get it all done.

And there are some who figure out quickly it's not for them, so they switch gears to something else that makes them happy. Better to do it now before your on the hook for $$$$.
 
Part of the answer depends on your time frame. Do you want to go directly into a medical school straight from undergrad? Or would you like to explore more options in the next 4 - 6 years?
I definitely don't intend to explore more options.

There's a lot to achieve in 3 short years: earning a strong GPA, completing prerequisites, research, volunteering, shadowing, obtaining letters of recommendation, AND THEN the whole application process.
This is exactly what I'm scared about. I definitely want to directly into med school but I'm scared as **** that I won't be up to par. Esp as an intl student. I know being a coward is the worst sign for a prospective pre-med but that's just how I feel. Plus the cost of applying and travelling for interviews is not sth I'm entirely sure I can afford.

And there are some who figure out quickly it's not for them, so they switch gears to something else that makes them happy. Better to do it now before your on the hook for $$$$.
I actually applied as a CS major and during my gap year after hs I thought a lot about pre-med, which is primarily why we're having this discussion. But I guess I'll actually be one of the gear-switchers. But I sure as hell know that I'll regret it for the rest of my life if I do.
 
This is exactly what I'm scared about. I definitely want to directly into med school but I'm scared as **** that I won't be up to par.

You're not alone in this feeling. Every pre med student has a twinge of "imposter syndrome." That feeling that everyone else must be an MIT genius and you're just faking it. The question is do you have the study habits and internal drive to put all that to the side? It's hard work - no shortcuts to this route.
 
I definitely don't intend to explore more options.


This is exactly what I'm scared about. I definitely want to directly into med school but I'm scared as **** that I won't be up to par. Esp as an intl student. I know being a coward is the worst sign for a prospective pre-med but that's just how I feel. Plus the cost of applying and travelling for interviews is not sth I'm entirely sure I can afford.


I actually applied as a CS major and during my gap year after hs I thought a lot about pre-med, which is primarily why we're having this discussion. But I guess I'll actually be one of the gear-switchers. But I sure as hell know that I'll regret it for the rest of my life if I do.

Just to put some of this into perspective, at my university, 400 students enter college saying they will be premed. In the end about 100 apply. As someone just starting university, you have the whole world ahead of you and plenty of time to explore or apply to medical school if you want to. I think fixating on this idea of when you have to apply so early could be detrimental to your mental health and your application in the end if it results in anxiety.

My suggestion would be get to college (an achievement in itself admist COVID-19), see how the first semester goes, and make an appointment with your prehealth advising office to discuss support at an international student / applicant.
 
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You're not alone in this feeling. Every pre med student has a twinge of "imposter syndrome." That feeling that everyone else must be an MIT genius and you're just faking it. The question is do you have the study habits and internal drive to put all that to the side? It's hard work - no shortcuts to this route.
I didn't really work hard in hs so I don't know about study habits. Need to work on that. But drive? I think I do.
 
Just to put some of this into perspective, at my university, 400 students enter college saying they will be premed. In the end about 100 apply. As someone just starting university, you have the whole world ahead of you and plenty of time to explore or apply to medical school if you want to. I think fixating on this idea of when you have to apply so early could be detrimental to your mental health and your application in the end if it results in anxiety.

My suggestion would be get to college (an achievement in itself admist COVID-19), see how the first semester goes, and make an appointment with your prehealth advising office to discuss support at an international student / applicant.
Tysm for the support. Will consider doing that.

I think fixating on this idea of when you have to apply so early could be detrimental to your mental health and your application in the end if it results in anxiety.
You have no idea. I haven't been able to sleep for the past few days thinking about how I will figure everything out. Stress level=max. But now I have a lot of info thanks to this wonderful forum <3
 
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Based on what I've heard from some international students that I met on the interview trail, medical schools will likely ask you (if you don't qualify for federal aid/loans or scholarships) to show that you have the ability to directly pay for all four years of your education. Just something to keep in mind if this might be a potential issue.
 
Based on what I've heard from some international students that I met on the interview trail, medical schools will likely ask you (if you don't qualify for federal aid/loans or scholarships) to show that you have the ability to directly pay for all four years of your education. Just something to keep in mind if this might be a potential issue.
So most of them don't have scholarships for international students? I cannot study if I don't get financial aid. What about private schools? They don't either?
 
So most of them don't have scholarships for international students? I cannot study if I don't get financial aid. What about private schools? They don't either?
From what I've seen, many schools actually do have merit-based scholarships that can be awarded to any accepted medical student, regardless of their citizenship status, but only a few cover full tuition, and even fewer cover the full cost of attendance. There really isn't a general rule though. You would have to research individual schools to find out more about their own specific financial aid policies.
 
So most of them don't have scholarships for international students? I cannot study if I don't get financial aid. What about private schools? They don't either?

Many schools require you to have an account with either one year or four years of tuition in the bank. Some of the big ones will give you a mix of scholarship and private loans to help cover. Or you could try to get loans with a US co-signer. However, since you won't have access to federal loans you will need to find a way to finance your education that is different from your US-citizen colleagues.
 
So most of them don't have scholarships for international students? I cannot study if I don't get financial aid. What about private schools? They don't either?
This is from the JHU UG pre-med advising website. You really need to research this in depth before you embark on a pre-med focus to the exclusion of all else. Understand what the data shows -- only 40% of all applicants are successful (around 20,000 out of 50,000). Of this 40%, around 1% go to people in your situation -- going in, before you start, assuming you make it to the point of actually applying, you will have around a 0.4% chance of success. If you cannot do it without financial aid, your chance will go down to around zero. You need to know this going in. Good luck!!!

"International students not holding a green card will have a more challenging time in the school admissions process because only a limited number of schools can consider them. Data from the Association of American Medical Colleges (AAMC) indicate that of the 20,000 or so places in medical school in the US, about 200 got to non-US-citizen/ non-permanent resident (i.e. green card). The overall number of international matriculants is so small primarily because, even for the private medical schools that are open to international students, some have policies which may require evidence of the student’s capacity to pay tuition above and beyond the INS requirements for an I20. In fact, some schools may require the student to pre-pay tuition for the entire 4 years or create an escrow account for these funds. Some institutions may accept loans cosigned by a US citizen.

International students do not qualify for financial aid, with the exception of merit scholarships at a few institutions (there are schools that have privately-funded programs for which international students may apply)."
 
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This is from the JHU UG pre-med advising website. You really need to research this in depth before you embark on a pre-med focus to the exclusion of all else. Understand what the data shows -- only 40% of all applicants are successful (around 20,000 out of 50,000). Of this 40%, around 1% go to people in your situation -- going in, before you start, assuming you make it to the point of actually applying, you will have around a 0.4% chance of success. If you cannot do it without financial aid, your chance will go down to around zero. You need to know this going in. Good luck!!!

"International students not holding a green card will have a more challenging time in the school admissions process because only a limited number of schools can consider them. Data from the Association of American Medical Colleges (AAMC) indicate that of the 20,000 or so places in medical school in the US, about 200 got to non-US-citizen/ non-permanent resident (i.e. green card). The overall number of international matriculants is so small primarily because, even for the private medical schools that are open to international students, some have policies which may require evidence of the student’s capacity to pay tuition above and beyond the INS requirements for an I20. In fact, some schools may require the student to pre-pay tuition for the entire 4 years or create an escrow account for these funds. Some institutions may accept loans cosigned by a US citizen.

International students do not qualify for financial aid, with the exception of merit scholarships at a few institutions (there are schools that have privately-funded programs for which international students may apply)."

Thank you for your answer.
I had taken this initiative AFTER some googling and this is what I had found:

"These are programs (either by school or organization) that will cover/waive your medical school tuition/fees.

Many of these scholarships are prestigious and competitive. Students hoping to win a medical school scholarship need to study hard and keep their grades up.


NYU School of Medicine

NYU offers full-tuition scholarships to all current students and future matriculated students in its MD degree program, regardless of merit or financial need, provided each student maintains satisfactory academic progress.

Perelman School of Medicine Scholarships

The University of Pennsylvania’s medical school awards 25 full tuition scholarships every year. All students accepted into the program are considered.

David Geffen Medical Scholarship

Students at UCLA can win four years of financial aid. The scholarship covers 100% of the four-year cost of attendance. This includes tuition, room and board, books, and supplies. All applicants are automatically considered for this merit-based scholarship.

Cornell University School of Medicine

In September 2019, Cornell announced that a new scholarship will eliminate medical education debt for all students who qualify for financial aid (thanks to donations totaling $160 million). Weill, the medical school, plans to replace student loans with scholarships that cover tuition, housing, and other living expenses for qualifying current and future students.

As a bonus, here are the top five public medical schools that offer the most financial aid and scholarships:

1. University of Central Florida College of Medicine


100% of students receive scholarships

100% of students receive financial aid

69% of students receive loans

Average indebtedness: $13,902

2. University of California, Davis, School of Medicine

95% of students receive scholarships

95% of students receive financial aid

89% of students receive loans

Average indebtedness: $146,756

3. David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA

94% of students receive scholarships

95% of students receive financial aid

77% of students receive loans

Average indebtedness: $107,549

4. University of Kansas School of Medicine

94% of students receive scholarships

97% of students receive financial aid

83% of students receive loans

Average indebtedness: $134,999

5. University of South Dakota Sanford School of Medicine

90% of students receive scholarships

98% of students receive financial aid

83% of students receive loans

Average indebtedness: $142,043"

-This information is all on www.savvypremed.com.

Is this information misleading? While I know that most (but not all) of the schools on this list are T20 schools, I was hoping I still had some hope.
I will do my research but if there is any school you specifically know about that covers a huge part of, if not the full, cost of attendance, pls try to mention those.
Thanks again.
 
As a bonus, here are the top five public medical schools that offer the most financial aid and scholarships:

1. University of Central Florida College of Medicine


100% of students receive scholarships

100% of students receive financial aid

69% of students receive loans

Average indebtedness: $13,902
Not sure how true this is as MSAR lists UCF's average graduate indebtedness as almost $174k
 
ladreamin said:
Thank you for your answer.
I had taken this initiative AFTER some googling and this is what I had found:

"These are programs (either by school or organization) that will cover/waive your medical school tuition/fees.

Many of these scholarships are prestigious and competitive. Students hoping to win a medical school scholarship need to study hard and keep their grades up.


NYU School of Medicine

NYU offers full-tuition scholarships to all current students and future matriculated students in its MD degree program, regardless of merit or financial need, provided each student maintains satisfactory academic progress.

Perelman School of Medicine Scholarships

The University of Pennsylvania’s medical school awards 25 full tuition scholarships every year. All students accepted into the program are considered.

David Geffen Medical Scholarship

Students at UCLA can win four years of financial aid. The scholarship covers 100% of the four-year cost of attendance. This includes tuition, room and board, books, and supplies. All applicants are automatically considered for this merit-based scholarship.

Cornell University School of Medicine

In September 2019, Cornell announced that a new scholarship will eliminate medical education debt for all students who qualify for financial aid (thanks to donations totaling $160 million). Weill, the medical school, plans to replace student loans with scholarships that cover tuition, housing, and other living expenses for qualifying current and future students.

As a bonus, here are the top five public medical schools that offer the most financial aid and scholarships:

1. University of Central Florida College of Medicine


100% of students receive scholarships

100% of students receive financial aid

69% of students receive loans

Average indebtedness: $13,902

2. University of California, Davis, School of Medicine

95% of students receive scholarships

95% of students receive financial aid

89% of students receive loans

Average indebtedness: $146,756

3. David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA

94% of students receive scholarships

95% of students receive financial aid

77% of students receive loans

Average indebtedness: $107,549

4. University of Kansas School of Medicine

94% of students receive scholarships

97% of students receive financial aid

83% of students receive loans

Average indebtedness: $134,999

5. University of South Dakota Sanford School of Medicine

90% of students receive scholarships

98% of students receive financial aid

83% of students receive loans

Average indebtedness: $142,043"

-This information is all on www.savvypremed.com.

Is this information misleading? While I know that most (but not all) of the schools on this list are T20 schools, I was hoping I still had some hope.
I will do my research but if there is any school you specifically know about that covers a huge part of, if not the full, cost of attendance, pls try to mention those.
Thanks again.
@ladreamin--you really think that most doctors aren't able to pay off their loans? The average doc makes $200k/year. Live frugally and you'll pay off undergrad loans as well as med school loans in 3 years, max (figure ~$300k for med school loans + $50 for undergrad = $350k; add $600k for 3 years and you got $250k left over for a down payment on a house, groceries, etc. Maybe even 4 years if you're providing for your family. Seriously, I wouldn't sweat it.
 
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@ladreamin--you really think that most doctors aren't able to pay off their loans? The average doc makes $200k/year. Live frugally and you'll pay off undergrad loans as well as med school loans in 3 years, max (figure ~$300k for med school loans + $50 for undergrad = $350k; add $600k for 3 years and you got $250k left over for a down payment on a house, groceries, etc. Maybe even 4 years if you're providing for your family. Seriously, I wouldn't sweat it.

Loans are for you fellow citizens. Us international kids gotta sweat it. We don't get no loans. Nope.
And if it says "LOANS" on my I-20, my visa stamp will say "HELL NO".
So yeah, I'd definitely sweat it.
 
ladreamin said:
Loans are for you fellow citizens. Us international kids gotta sweat it. We don't get no loans. Nope.
And if it says "LOANS" on my I-20, my visa stamp will say "HELL NO".
So yeah, I'd definitely sweat it.
Hmmmm well I'm not familiar with visa stamps & such but maybe you should reach out to the govt. and see what they say. You may have to work for a while to earn your right to be in the US--and at that point you need to decide if it's worth it to pursue medicine or a degree in the US in the first place. Wish you the best of luck.
 
Hmmmm well I'm not familiar with visa stamps & such but maybe you should reach out to the govt. and see what they say. You may have to work for a while to earn your right to be in the US--and at that point you need to decide if it's worth it to pursue medicine or a degree in the US in the first place. Wish you the best of luck.
Thank you and I'm sorry if my previous post came as a bit harsh. I have nothing against US citizens. ✌
 
ladreamin said:
Thank you and I'm sorry if my previous post came as a bit harsh. I have nothing against US citizens. ✌
You're welcome and no worries; your post didn't seem harsh. :luck:
 
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Thank you for your answer.
I had taken this initiative AFTER some googling and this is what I had found:

"These are programs (either by school or organization) that will cover/waive your medical school tuition/fees.

Many of these scholarships are prestigious and competitive. Students hoping to win a medical school scholarship need to study hard and keep their grades up.


NYU School of Medicine

NYU offers full-tuition scholarships to all current students and future matriculated students in its MD degree program, regardless of merit or financial need, provided each student maintains satisfactory academic progress.

Perelman School of Medicine Scholarships

The University of Pennsylvania’s medical school awards 25 full tuition scholarships every year. All students accepted into the program are considered.

David Geffen Medical Scholarship

Students at UCLA can win four years of financial aid. The scholarship covers 100% of the four-year cost of attendance. This includes tuition, room and board, books, and supplies. All applicants are automatically considered for this merit-based scholarship.

Cornell University School of Medicine

In September 2019, Cornell announced that a new scholarship will eliminate medical education debt for all students who qualify for financial aid (thanks to donations totaling $160 million). Weill, the medical school, plans to replace student loans with scholarships that cover tuition, housing, and other living expenses for qualifying current and future students.

As a bonus, here are the top five public medical schools that offer the most financial aid and scholarships:

1. University of Central Florida College of Medicine


100% of students receive scholarships

100% of students receive financial aid

69% of students receive loans

Average indebtedness: $13,902

2. University of California, Davis, School of Medicine

95% of students receive scholarships

95% of students receive financial aid

89% of students receive loans

Average indebtedness: $146,756

3. David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA

94% of students receive scholarships

95% of students receive financial aid

77% of students receive loans

Average indebtedness: $107,549

4. University of Kansas School of Medicine

94% of students receive scholarships

97% of students receive financial aid

83% of students receive loans

Average indebtedness: $134,999

5. University of South Dakota Sanford School of Medicine

90% of students receive scholarships

98% of students receive financial aid

83% of students receive loans

Average indebtedness: $142,043"

-This information is all on www.savvypremed.com.

Is this information misleading? While I know that most (but not all) of the schools on this list are T20 schools, I was hoping I still had some hope.
I will do my research but if there is any school you specifically know about that covers a huge part of, if not the full, cost of attendance, pls try to mention those.
Thanks again.
No, the information is not misleading, but is geared to citizens or permanent residents. Now Google how many foreign students each of those schools have in their classes, and how much grant aid each of them receives.
 
Thank you for your answer.
I had taken this initiative AFTER some googling and this is what I had found:

"These are programs (either by school or organization) that will cover/waive your medical school tuition/fees.

Many of these scholarships are prestigious and competitive. Students hoping to win a medical school scholarship need to study hard and keep their grades up.


NYU School of Medicine

NYU offers full-tuition scholarships to all current students and future matriculated students in its MD degree program, regardless of merit or financial need, provided each student maintains satisfactory academic progress.

Perelman School of Medicine Scholarships

The University of Pennsylvania’s medical school awards 25 full tuition scholarships every year. All students accepted into the program are considered.

David Geffen Medical Scholarship

Students at UCLA can win four years of financial aid. The scholarship covers 100% of the four-year cost of attendance. This includes tuition, room and board, books, and supplies. All applicants are automatically considered for this merit-based scholarship.

Cornell University School of Medicine

In September 2019, Cornell announced that a new scholarship will eliminate medical education debt for all students who qualify for financial aid (thanks to donations totaling $160 million). Weill, the medical school, plans to replace student loans with scholarships that cover tuition, housing, and other living expenses for qualifying current and future students.

As a bonus, here are the top five public medical schools that offer the most financial aid and scholarships:

1. University of Central Florida College of Medicine


100% of students receive scholarships

100% of students receive financial aid

69% of students receive loans

Average indebtedness: $13,902

2. University of California, Davis, School of Medicine

95% of students receive scholarships

95% of students receive financial aid

89% of students receive loans

Average indebtedness: $146,756

3. David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA

94% of students receive scholarships

95% of students receive financial aid

77% of students receive loans

Average indebtedness: $107,549

4. University of Kansas School of Medicine

94% of students receive scholarships

97% of students receive financial aid

83% of students receive loans

Average indebtedness: $134,999

5. University of South Dakota Sanford School of Medicine

90% of students receive scholarships

98% of students receive financial aid

83% of students receive loans

Average indebtedness: $142,043"

-This information is all on www.savvypremed.com.

Is this information misleading? While I know that most (but not all) of the schools on this list are T20 schools, I was hoping I still had some hope.
I will do my research but if there is any school you specifically know about that covers a huge part of, if not the full, cost of attendance, pls try to mention those.
Thanks again.

These are incredibly competitive situations. Not that its impossible. But I would say it would be foolish to apply to medical school with the mindset of only being able to go if you get one of these scholarships. What if you get in but aren't awarded one of these? How many per year go to international students?
 
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These are incredibly competitive situations. Not that its impossible. But I would say it would be foolish to apply to medical school with the mindset of only being able to go if you get one of these scholarships. What if you get in but aren't awarded one of these? How many per year go to international students?
Yeah I understand that now. Thanks for the answer.
 
No, the information is not misleading, but is geared to citizens or permanent residents. Now Google how many foreign students each of those schools have in their classes, and how much grant aid each of them receives.
Understood
 
Last edited:
Thank you for your answer.
I had taken this initiative AFTER some googling and this is what I had found:

"These are programs (either by school or organization) that will cover/waive your medical school tuition/fees.

Many of these scholarships are prestigious and competitive. Students hoping to win a medical school scholarship need to study hard and keep their grades up.


NYU School of Medicine

NYU offers full-tuition scholarships to all current students and future matriculated students in its MD degree program, regardless of merit or financial need, provided each student maintains satisfactory academic progress.

Perelman School of Medicine Scholarships

The University of Pennsylvania’s medical school awards 25 full tuition scholarships every year. All students accepted into the program are considered.

David Geffen Medical Scholarship

Students at UCLA can win four years of financial aid. The scholarship covers 100% of the four-year cost of attendance. This includes tuition, room and board, books, and supplies. All applicants are automatically considered for this merit-based scholarship.

Cornell University School of Medicine

In September 2019, Cornell announced that a new scholarship will eliminate medical education debt for all students who qualify for financial aid (thanks to donations totaling $160 million). Weill, the medical school, plans to replace student loans with scholarships that cover tuition, housing, and other living expenses for qualifying current and future students.

As a bonus, here are the top five public medical schools that offer the most financial aid and scholarships:

1. University of Central Florida College of Medicine


100% of students receive scholarships

100% of students receive financial aid

69% of students receive loans

Average indebtedness: $13,902

2. University of California, Davis, School of Medicine

95% of students receive scholarships

95% of students receive financial aid

89% of students receive loans

Average indebtedness: $146,756

3. David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA

94% of students receive scholarships

95% of students receive financial aid

77% of students receive loans

Average indebtedness: $107,549

4. University of Kansas School of Medicine

94% of students receive scholarships

97% of students receive financial aid

83% of students receive loans

Average indebtedness: $134,999

5. University of South Dakota Sanford School of Medicine

90% of students receive scholarships

98% of students receive financial aid

83% of students receive loans

Average indebtedness: $142,043"

-This information is all on www.savvypremed.com.

Is this information misleading? While I know that most (but not all) of the schools on this list are T20 schools, I was hoping I still had some hope.
I will do my research but if there is any school you specifically know about that covers a huge part of, if not the full, cost of attendance, pls try to mention those.
Thanks again.

Applying as an international student without being able to finance 4 years of education is very difficult. Of the schools you listed above, with the exception of the Geffen scholarship at UCLA, all schools either will not accept international applicants or will not provide any financial aid to international applicants.

NYU: Applicants must be citizens, green card holders, or have DACA status

University of Pennsylvania: International applicants are allowed but not eligible for federal aid and must place 4 years of tuition in an escrow account

Weill @ Cornell: International students are allowed, but financial aid is offered only to those applicants who are U.S. citizens or permanent residents of the U.S.

University of Central Florida: The UCF College of Medicine M.D. Program will only consider applicants who are U.S. Citizens, Permanent Resident Aliens or Asylees

UC Davis: International applicants must prove their ability to finance all 4 years of education, and are ineligible for financial aid

UCLA: International applicants must prove their ability to finance all 4 years of education, and are ineligible for financial aid with the exception of the Geffen scholarship, which is offered to ~25% of incoming students.

Kansas: Applicants must be citizens, green card holders, or have DACA status

South Dakota: Applicants must be citizens or green card holders AND be a South Dakota resident

We don't get a ton of international students posting here, so it's hard to recommend the best path forward for you. It might be a SMP with a linkage to a medical school that accepts international students? I don't think a master's degree other than an SMP is going to help with medical school admissions.
 
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We don't get a ton of international students posting here, so it's hard to recommend the best path forward for you. It might be a SMP with a linkage to a medical school that accepts international students? I don't think a master's degree other than an SMP is going to help with medical school admissions.

IMHO the first step to get into a US medical school as an international student is... to get a green card.
 
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IMHO the first step to get into a US medical school as an international student is... to get a green card.
Haha the best way to do that is to get married immediately, wait a year or so and apply for a green card, that will get you the green card in time to apply to medical school!

Otherwise, because F-1 is a non-immigrant visa, you need to first get a job that's willing to sponsor an H1B (which often requires an advanced degree), and then hope that job is willing to sponsor a green card for you (if you're going to use it to go to medical school, probably not), and also hope you're not from China, India, or the Philippines or that's going to take forever :p
 
@ladreamin--you really think that most doctors aren't able to pay off their loans? The average doc makes $200k/year. Live frugally and you'll pay off undergrad loans as well as med school loans in 3 years, max (figure ~$300k for med school loans + $50 for undergrad = $350k; add $600k for 3 years and you got $250k left over for a down payment on a house, groceries, etc. Maybe even 4 years if you're providing for your family. Seriously, I wouldn't sweat it.
$350k in debt will take much longer than three years to pay off on a $200k salary. That $350k in debt is paid in post-tax dollars, while the salary figure is pre-tax. Debt also accrues interest over time, and payments are made starting in residency, where the average salary is ~$60k. Physicians can pay off these debts, but it takes a great deal of financial discipline, time, and sacrifices to do so. Just my thoughts.
 
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Haha the best way to do that is to get married immediately, wait a year or so and apply for a green card, that will get you the green card in time to apply to medical school!
Then my first priority after going to the States will be to fall in love and catch a guy. Thanks for this amazing idea.
 
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I'll be a freshman this Fall and I really want to pursue pre-med.

I'm an international student and so I need to go to med school (if I can reach that stage, that is) right after undergrad, w/o taking a gap year, due to visa issues. So my question is, is that possible if I take my MCAT in the summer after my junior year and then apply for med school? If yes, then will I be inexperienced (since I won't have that many ECAs under my belt) and not mature enough (I'll be 22 at the end of Fall semester of my Junior year) and have lesser chances of getting in or will I not have enough time to create good applications and write a good PS and secondaries and possibly attend interviews (if I'm called in, that is) during my senior year?
Because from what I've researched (and correct me if I'm wrong), it is not possible to take the MCAT by sophomore year since I'll just have to cram in a lot of pre-reqs, which will most likely, in turn, hurt my GPA. I'm completely at a loss.

I really really really want to become a doctor and there's nothing I wouldn't do to have a strong med school application but I also don't want to plan my first two years full of rigorous courses and ECAs because I don't think I'll be able to handle that. But I'd like to hear about opinions otherwise. And there's also no way I could afford a gap year since I can't stay in the US after my visa expires (which will be about 6 months after I graduate) and I don't have a student status anymore.

So anyone giving an insight as to how I could solve this problem will be HIGHLY HIGHLY appreciated. Thanks in advance.
I didn't expect it to be this long sorry but I hope I could get myself through.
It's great that you are asking these questions as a freshman, since you will have plenty of time to reflect and figure out an appropriate direction for your future. I also am an international student and will be starting my first year of medical school this Fall. I don't want to discourage you but just want to be honest--it is extremely hard to get into medical school in the US as an international student. For example, if a med school class has 100 students, maybe 2-4 of those spots will be reserved for international students and that's it! I am not saying this to boost myself up for getting in but rather to help you understand the difficulty and so that you are prepared for the reality of it, because I know that I went into the process very naively. These low acceptance percentages mean that you will need an excellent GPA and MCAT scores to even get a look from low to mid tier MD schools, and that is being hopeful. To put it into perspective, I applied to around 30 MD schools after working hard to obtain top GPA and MCAT and got 1 interview. An alternate route that you may consider to MD is DO, since the schools are much more willing to consider international students. DO doctors are rising in the US and definitely receive medical training that is on par with MD, so you will not struggle to find jobs or match into residencies in the future. After getting in though, you have to consider how you will finance the education, since medical school is very expensive. International students don't get financial aid and it will be a struggle to get student loans, especially considering most need a US citizen to co-sign. I would weigh your desire to pursue medicine and decide. It is a difficult and often disappointing journey but if your will to become a doctor is strong, then this path is worth it despite the numerous struggles and I encourage you to continue.
 
It's great that you are asking these questions as a freshman, since you will have plenty of time to reflect and figure out an appropriate direction for your future. I also am an international student and will be starting my first year of medical school this Fall. I don't want to discourage you but just want to be honest--it is extremely hard to get into medical school in the US as an international student. For example, if a med school class has 100 students, maybe 2-4 of those spots will be reserved for international students and that's it! I am not saying this to boost myself up for getting in but rather to help you understand the difficulty and so that you are prepared for the reality of it, because I know that I went into the process very naively. These low acceptance percentages mean that you will need an excellent GPA and MCAT scores to even get a look from low to mid tier MD schools, and that is being hopeful. To put it into perspective, I applied to around 30 MD schools after working hard to obtain top GPA and MCAT and got 1 interview. An alternate route that you may consider to MD is DO, since the schools are much more willing to consider international students. DO doctors are rising in the US and definitely receive medical training that is on par with MD, so you will not struggle to find jobs or match into residencies in the future. After getting in though, you have to consider how you will finance the education, since medical school is very expensive. International students don't get financial aid and it will be a struggle to get student loans, especially considering most need a US citizen to co-sign. I would weigh your desire to pursue medicine and decide. It is a difficult and often disappointing journey but if your will to become a doctor is strong, then this path is worth it despite the numerous struggles and I encourage you to continue.

If I could just ask, sometimes international students ask me how to finance their education, and I honestly don't know what to tell them. Can you tell us how you're funding your education? Feel free to PM me if you'd prefer.
 
If I could just ask, sometimes international students ask me how to finance their education, and I honestly don't know what to tell them. Can you tell us how you're funding your education? Feel free to PM me if you'd prefer.
The 4 ways that I can think of:

1) Private loans
2) Some governments are willing to fund education abroad for their students
3) Institutional aid from the school itself
4) Rich relatives that are willing to help the student pay
 
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The 4 ways that I can think of:

1) Private loans
2) Some governments are willing to fund education abroad for their students
3) Institutional aid from the school itself
4) Rich relatives that are willing to help the student pay
Private loans often require a US cosigner, and won't work for schools requiring you to prove your ability to pay or place 4 years of tuition in escrow. Institutional aid is also generally unavailable to international students with few exceptions. 2 and 4 are the most likely to come through, although that requires luck more than anything... being an international student aiming for medical school is hard :/
 
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The 4 ways that I can think of:

1) Private loans
2) Some governments are willing to fund education abroad for their students
3) Institutional aid from the school itself
4) Rich relatives that are willing to help the student pay

Private loans often require a US cosigner, and won't work for schools requiring you to prove your ability to pay or place 4 years of tuition in escrow. Institutional aid is also generally unavailable to international students with few exceptions. 2 and 4 are the most likely to come through, although that requires luck more than anything... being an international student aiming for medical school is hard :/

This is the general advice I've heard of. As you've correctly stated without a US co-signer or a high-tier school, that leaves option 4 which is really up to luck. Very unfortunate for some of my friends who switched careers due to not being able to afford to attend.
 
Hi there, just wanted to jump in here and offer my thoughts. Yes, I am an international student currently finishing my first year of medical school. So I am familiar with your current thought process as I had that a few years back. To recapitulate the main point stated here already, this endeavor is very difficult. Yes, as an international student, the decks are stacked against you but that is far from saying it is impossible. On the contrary, it is very possible. Let me explain, because we are ineligible for the federal loans, we automatically are weaned out of various schools. Also because state schools receive federal funds, they cannot use that funds to educate international students which further limits the pool. Both of these combined leaves just about ~40 or so schools that international students are eligible for. There is a catch though, these schools are top 20 heavy so your stats need to be competitive. How competitive, I don't know but competitive enough that you feel good to throw money at an application. What I realized after going through this process is that these schools also are the ones that give LOTS of scholarships. Like full rides (YES you read that right) so right there, more opportunities open up. So then what is the limiting factor? I can't tell you that honestly, I know of international students who had similar stats but had some get in and some don't. Additionally, most of my other international student colleagues pursued the MD/PHD option. Because this is fully funded from the bat, they are usually more competitive and the stats are usually higher. Went through this, pm if you have a specific question. But all in all, I want you to know this, there are a few schools not lots of them but definitely upwards of 20 that DO ACCEPT international students and provide scholarships such as full tuition and full rides and as such are worth pursuing.
TLDR: My honest advice, DO PURSUE! If medicine is what you truly want, you will make your own way. I know lots of people who have and I am not downplaying the difficulties but it is possible. As far as how you can be competitive, definitely ace your undergrad classes, shadow a few docs, try to do research starting your first summer and throughout the school year. Know that you are going to have a very different college experience from your cohort which is okay because it will get you to where you want to being a few years. If you want specifics, feel free to reach out to me but AGAIN, IT IS POSSIBLE. You don't need to get a green card (it doesn't hurt, I don't, none of my friends either). You don't need multiple publications from undergrad, just had 1. Don't worry about taking a gap year and doing a masters, I don't. Basically, work as hard as you can and trust the process.
Best wishes,
 
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