I was ADVISED to retake my 34

[708445]

As the thread title suggests... calling schools for feedback for my possible (probable) reapplication. I applied with a 4.0/34 (12/10/12, summer 2014 exam) fairly late in the cycle due to committee letter (submitted AMCAS in June and all secondaries within 2 weeks) and received all interviews from January through to April. One school I called (top 20) said I should retake and get a few more points. Other people told me I'd be crazy to retake a 94%ile score for maybe a 96-97%ile score, which wouldn't help me out that much since most schools would average my scores anyway. A thought I did have was that taking the new MCAT might be a good showing and prove commitment or something, but that means blowing the next two months on something that might not be in my best interests. I am currently halfway through studying content and have a seat reserved for June just in case I have to reapply.

Note: I've confirmed it wasn't my interviewing (I had great MMI scores and otherwise solid feedback)

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[Bleu]

As the thread title suggests... calling schools for feedback for my possible (probable) reapplication. I applied with a 4.0/34 (12/10/12, summer 2014 exam) fairly late in the cycle due to committee letter (submitted AMCAS in June and all secondaries within 2 weeks) and received all interviews from January through to April. One school I called (top 20) said I should retake and get a few more points. Other people told me I'd be crazy to retake a 94%ile score for maybe a 96-97%ile score, which wouldn't help me out that much since most schools would average my scores anyway. A thought I did have was that taking the new MCAT might be a good showing and prove commitment or something, but that means blowing the next two months on something that might not be in my best interests. I am currently halfway through studying content and have a seat reserved for June just in case I have to reapply.

Note: I've confirmed it wasn't my interviewing (I had great MMI scores and otherwise solid feedback)

what are the average scores of the schools you're applying to? If you're below then I suppose you have to consider what the schools are telling you and not what SDN advises. Did you not apply to a state or safety school? Are you wait listed anywhere? Not sure I could buy all new books and start again with a 4.0 and a 34.

 

[708445]

what are the average scores of the schools you're applying to? If you're below then I suppose you have to consider what the schools are telling you and not what SDN advises. Did you not apply to a state or safety school? Are you wait listed anywhere? Not sure I could buy all new books and start again with a 4.0 and a 34.

I was above the tenth percentile and below the median for a lot of the programs I applied to hoping my GPA would compensate. I still got a top ten interview with my score and they said a few points here or there wouldn't have really made a difference. I am a California resident of course (how many of these posts have this in common?)

Advice has been all over the board. Can't get a consensus. 1 waitlist... Waitlist movement last year: 0 offers

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[Necr0sis713]

I mean...if you know you can get higher than a 34 FOR SURE, then go for it. But...I wouldn't risk getting a lower score; hell, even if if you get something ******ed like a 33 or another 34 but with a less desirable individual score per section...It wouldn't look too good.

 

[eteshoe]

Hmm...I would cautiously say you shouldn't retake a 34. It's risky unless you are going to get the equivalent of a 38+ on the new MCAT

 

[gyngyn]

There is no school where an unexpired 34 MCAT will keep you out.
It is not reasonable to re-take a score this good. You just need to apply to schools that want you.

 

[Bleu]

I was above the tenth percentile and below the median for a lot of the programs I applied to hoping my GPA would compensate. I still got a top ten interview with my score and they said a few points here or there wouldn't have really made a difference. I am a California resident of course (how many of these posts have this in common?)

Advice has been all over the board. Can't get a consensus. 1 waitlist... Waitlist movement last year: 0 offers

Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

Their advise to retake if you're below the average is legit I suppose Especially since I'm sure they're noting what they tell you. It's not like you can reapply to that school and expect even an interview. The person who said 38 is probably right. You can't start in the fall so study and take it in April reapply and of course apply to "normal" schools where if you do get a 33 your still in.

 

[708445]

Hmm...I would cautiously say you shouldn't retake a 34. It's risky unless you are going to get the equivalent of a 38+ on the new MCAT

This is what I'm saying though... Realistically even IF I get 99%ile... That becomes 96.5%ile. Is this that much different/better from a 94%ile?

Basically the feedback I got from the one school was well gee I don't anything else to tell you to do OTHER than retake the MCAT. I feel like a 34 is the epitome of a grey area score. I'm confident I could score at least 96-7%ile but is it even worth it?

I'm currently set to test in June for the upcoming cycle and will be ready for practice exams starting next month. A small minority of schools will prefer and or require the new exam this year


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[708445]

There is no school where an unexpired 34 MCAT will keep you out.
It is not reasonable to re-take a score this good. You just need to apply to schools that want you.

Thank you for weighing in!

In any other year I would totally be on board with just reapplying as is but with the transition to the new exam and one school actually telling me to retake it... I was literally told "I have no other suggestions for you because everything else is great" by an adcom. I have stellar research with pubs and grants, clinical volunteering and employment, lots of outreach with underserved communities, and a fine arts degree to complement my BS. Did I just roll snake eyes this year? Did my committee letter coming in late (Sept) keep me out of the running? I am ORM if it makes a difference.

 

[gyngyn]

Thank you for weighing in!

In any other year I would totally be on board with just reapplying as is but with the transition to the new exam and one school actually telling me to retake it... I was literally told "I have no other suggestions for you because everything else is great" by an adcom. I have stellar research with pubs and grants, clinical volunteering and employment, lots of outreach with underserved communities, and a fine arts degree to complement my BS. Did I just roll snake eyes this year? Did my committee letter coming in late (Sept) keep me out of the running? I am ORM if it makes a difference.

"ORM" doesn't keep you out of medical school. With a 34 MCAT, you just need a strategy consistent with success.

 

[708445]

"ORM" doesn't keep you out of medical school. With a 34 MCAT, you just need a strategy consistent with success.

Would you mind elaborating?

Sure maybe a higher score wouldn't make a huge difference at most schools, but what about the really elite schools/top 10?

 

[lacZee]

Do you mind sharing your school list?

 

[ChrisMack390]

Do you mind sharing your school list?

I was going to say the same thing. Did you only apply to the top of the top?

 

[GrapesofRath]

If it's not the interview(and Im not sold you can 100% say its not) there's something else keeping a 4.0/34 out and it's not the 34. What that something is is what you need to focus on. School list, ECs, service, clinical exp, presentation of yourself in your app, essays, LORs etc those are the usual candidates to start with

 

[gyngyn]

Would you mind elaborating?

Sure maybe a higher score wouldn't make a huge difference at most schools, but what about the really elite schools/top 10?

Really elite schools don't need re-takers either. They certainly don't need re-applicants.
If everything is top-notch, the 34 is fine with Harvard. They've poached applicants with lower scores from us...

 

[708445]

I was going to say the same thing. Did you only apply to the top of the top?

Yes, I was in retrospect too top heavy. UC system of course, a few smaller private colleges back east. Didn't really think to apply to neighboring states. Going by the bible that is USWN, I had a fair number between 20-60 that didn't offer me an interview.

Really elite schools don't need re-takers either. They certainly don't need re-applicants.
If everything is top-notch, the 34 is fine with Harvard.

Haha ouch. Well, I did meet someone at my top 10 interview who was a 3rd time reapplicant. I'm just not sure what else I can do between now and June to demonstrate significant improvement.

 

[eteshoe]

This is what I'm saying though... Realistically even IF I get 99%ile... That becomes 96.5%ile. Is this that much different/better from a 94%ile?

Basically the feedback I got from the one school was well gee I don't anything else to tell you to do OTHER than retake the MCAT. I feel like a 34 is the epitome of a grey area score. I'm confident I could score at least 96-7%ile but is it even worth it?

I'm currently set to test in June for the upcoming cycle and will be ready for practice exams starting next month. A small minority of schools will prefer and or require the new exam this year


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What I meant by my comment is that your score is so high that the probability of getting higher (i.e. like 99th percentile) is kind of low and really only worth re-taking if that's the score you'd get (most likely it wouldn't happen). My personal opinion is that 90th+ percentile is good enough for all intensive purposes and not worth retaking unless you just love taking that **** exam.

 

[gyngyn]

Haha ouch. Well, I did meet someone at my top 10 interview who was a 3rd time reapplicant. I'm just not sure what else I can do between now and June to demonstrate significant improvement.

Many such schools specifically do not accept third applications and I'll bet this person was not a third time applicant at that school.
You need to identify schools that might want to interview you.

 

[708445]

What I meant by my comment is that your score is so high that the probability of getting higher (i.e. like 99th percentile) is kind of low and really only worth re-taking if that's the score you'd get (most likely it wouldn't happen). My personal opinion is that 90th+ percentile is good enough for all intensive purposes and not worth retaking unless you just love taking that **** exam.

Don't get me wrong, I don't WANT to retake it. I just had this as advice from one school, and another that said "well a few more points might have helped". So of course I had to ask SDN to find out the truth

 

[eteshoe]

Don't get me wrong, I don't WANT to retake it. I just had this as advice from one school, and another that said "well a few more points might have helped". So of course I had to ask SDN to find out the truth

To me the difference between a 93rd percentile and a 99th percentile is that bit of madness that won't allow you to stop taking practice exams once you're scoring in the 95th+ % range. Literally stop wasting time studying for the exam (no offense): you have a strong MCAT and perfect GPA. Focus on your ECs, getting your PS & secondaries prepped and enjoy your time before med school.

 

[ERDOC555]

As the thread title suggests... calling schools for feedback for my possible (probable) reapplication. I applied with a 4.0/34 (12/10/12, summer 2014 exam) fairly late in the cycle due to committee letter (submitted AMCAS in June and all secondaries within 2 weeks) and received all interviews from January through to April. One school I called (top 20) said I should retake and get a few more points. Other people told me I'd be crazy to retake a 94%ile score for maybe a 96-97%ile score, which wouldn't help me out that much since most schools would average my scores anyway. A thought I did have was that taking the new MCAT might be a good showing and prove commitment or something, but that means blowing the next two months on something that might not be in my best interests. I am currently halfway through studying content and have a seat reserved for June just in case I have to reapply.

Note: I've confirmed it wasn't my interviewing (I had great MMI scores and otherwise solid feedback)

34 is competitive for the vast majority of MD schools except for top 20 which have average MCATs of usually 36-37+

If you were below median for all schools you applied to, I'm not surprised you didn't get in. If you sprinkled in a lot of schools where you were at median or 1-2 points above median and still didn't get in I'd be surprised and I think there might be a different problem.

I think people should apply to:
25% reach schools (schools you are below median stats for)
50% competitive schools (at or very close to median)
25% "safety" schools (schools that you are far above average for)

Yes half of Harvard's class will be below median but those people usually have some sort of other pull.

So don't retake if you're simply trying to get into any MD school, a 34 is plenty good. If you have your heart set on top 10, then a retake COULD potentially help assuming you nail it.

Also this is coming from someone who has almost identical stats as you (new MCAT though) and was successfully accepted at a great school, but not top 20.

Edit: 33/34 is the 10th% for many of the best schools FYI, not all but a good portion.

 

[Bleu]

Really elite schools don't need re-takers either. They certainly don't need re-applicants.
If everything is top-notch, the 34 is fine with Harvard. They've poached applicants with lower scores from us...

UC schools looking at posted stats are between 30-34. You're right in there, higher than most. You applied to 60 schools?

http://www.mcattestscores.com/usmedicalschoolsmcatscoresGPA.html#california

 

[Goro]

I suspect that unless you were talking to the Admissions Dean him/herself, it was some ******* admin who told you to retake. Nobody could be that stupid as to offer such advice.

As the thread title suggests... calling schools for feedback for my possible (probable) reapplication. I applied with a 4.0/34 (12/10/12, summer 2014 exam) fairly late in the cycle due to committee letter (submitted AMCAS in June and all secondaries within 2 weeks) and received all interviews from January through to April. One school I called (top 20) said I should retake and get a few more points. Other people told me I'd be crazy to retake a 94%ile score for maybe a 96-97%ile score, which wouldn't help me out that much since most schools would average my scores anyway. A thought I did have was that taking the new MCAT might be a good showing and prove commitment or something, but that means blowing the next two months on something that might not be in my best interests. I am currently halfway through studying content and have a seat reserved for June just in case I have to reapply.

Note: I've confirmed it wasn't my interviewing (I had great MMI scores and otherwise solid feedback)

 

[gyngyn]

I suspect that unless you were talking to the Admissions Dean him/herself, it was some ******* admin who told you to retake. Nobody could be that stupid as to offer such advice.

It sounds like they said something like "a few more MCAT points wouldn't have hurt."
OP may have misinterpreted this as a recommendation for a re-take.

 

[708445]

34 is competitive for the vast majority of MD schools except for top 20 which have average MCATs of usually 36-37+

If you were below median for all schools you applied to, I'm not surprised you didn't get in. If you sprinkled in a lot of schools where you were at median or 1-2 points above median and still didn't get in I'd be surprised and I think there might be a different problem.

I think people should apply to:
25% reach schools (schools you are below median stats for)
50% competitive schools (at or very close to median)
25% "safety" schools (schools that you are far above average for)

Yes half of Harvard's class will be below median but those people usually have some sort of other pull.

So don't retake if you're simply trying to get into any MD school, a 34 is plenty good. If you have your heart set on top 10, then a retake COULD potentially help assuming you nail it.

Also this is coming from someone who has almost identical stats as you (new MCAT though) and was successfully accepted at a great school, but not top 20.

This, really. If it's the other sort of pull - what kind of pull?

It sounds like they said something like "a few more MCAT points wouldn't have hurt."
OP may have misinterpreted this as a recommendation for a re-take.

Not the Dean, and honestly most schools told me nothing, but the few that did I was able to speak to someone who works in the office and was willing to take a look at my app. I was told once, "we had a competitive year and your score probably didn't you noticed" by one pre-II rejection. I was told by a second person post-II rejection what you said, "a few more points wouldn't hurt". So one was a pretty strong, "retake the MCAT and get a higher score or you're not getting in here", the other "maybe not make or break but would have helped". Hence, I've been studying to retake based on those recommendations.

 

[gyngyn]

Not the Dean, and honestly most schools told me nothing, but the few that did I was able to speak to someone who works in the office and was willing to take a look at my app. I was told once, "we had a competitive year and your score probably didn't you noticed" by one pre-II rejection. I was told by a second person post-II rejection what you said, "a few more points wouldn't hurt". So one was a pretty strong, "retake the MCAT and get a higher score or you're not getting in here", the other "maybe not make or break but would have helped". Hence, I've been studying to retake based on those recommendations.

Having a better first score and re-taking the MCAT are not the same, though.

 

[708445]

Having a better first score and re-taking the MCAT are not the same, though.

So I'm forever stuck with my 34 MCAT and thus relegated to "above the 10th%ile but below the median" land for most of my preferred programs?

 

[gyngyn]

So I'm forever stuck with my 34 MCAT and thus relegated to "above the 10th%ile but below the median" land for most of my preferred programs?

The programs that prefer you are more important to your success.

 

[eteshoe]

The programs that prefer you are more important to your success.

This!

 

[GrapesofRath]

So I'm forever stuck with my 34 MCAT and thus relegated to "above the 10th%ile but below the median" land for most of my preferred programs?

Being a reapplicant at top schools is a bigger issue than the 34. You had your shot at the MCAT: it was good enough for 95% of the med schools out there. The 5% who it isnt, let it rest. They arent going to change their opinion of you if you retake it and do better, particularly as a reapp. That's how most tests work really: you get one shot. Look at it the same way here.

You're fine on paper for many schools. Focusing on top schools when a single school didnt accept you last cycle isnt a good strategy

 

[Stagg737]

Be reasonable with your application. Apply early to 20 schools or so. Make 5 of them top 20 programs/reach schools where you're below median but you really want to attend, 10 or so where you are around average stat-wise and will be decently competitive, and 3-5 safety schools where your stats are very strong. That way you'll have something to hopefully fall back on. Trust me, you don't want to be a third-time applicant in anyone's eyes.

Also, I wouldn't bother retaking a 34. It's a waste of your time and money. Figure out where you are weak in the EC department (volunteering, clinical exposure/shadowing, research, leadership, etc.) and find something to fill in that hole for the next few months/year. Even if you don't get publications or hundreds of hours, the fact that you're working to fill in those deficits will carry some weight with adcoms. Apply smart, be well-rounded, and work hard to correct any deficits and you should be pretty happy with your next application cycle.

 

[bluepeach9]

Really elite schools don't need re-takers either. They certainly don't need re-applicants.
If everything is top-notch, the 34 is fine with Harvard. They've poached applicants with lower scores from us...

Hmm, really? Did you mean to say the 34 is fine for Harvard when it comes to URM applicants? I find it surprising that an ORM could get into Harvard with a 34 in what kind of cases might this occur?

 

[futuremdforme]

The late application seems like a bigger problem than your MCAT. How are you going to address the timing of the committee letter this year?

 

[708445]

The late application seems like a bigger problem than your MCAT. How are you going to address the timing of the committee letter this year?

Well for one, the committee letter is already written, and I was actually considering not using a committee letter this year since I've been out of school for a few years.

 

[gyngyn]

I find it surprising that an ORM could get into Harvard with a 34 in what kind of cases might this occur?

Don't be surprised. It happens when the rest of the application is top notch. OP is focusing on improving the strongest part of his application, not its weaknesses. This is a common problem.
You notice that OP didn't get into his state schools either. "ORM" or not, top notch applications would get nibbles with scores like this.

 

[708445]

Don't be surprised. It happens when the rest of the application is top notch. OP is focusing on improving the strongest part of his application, not its weaknesses. This is a common problem.

I haven't had any luck in getting someone to tell me "this is what you need to do, this is what's missing". Believe me, I'd do it in a heartbeat if I knew what it was

My MCAT was the ONLY thing anybody commented on


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[gyngyn]

I haven't had any luck in getting someone to tell me "this is what you need to do, this is what's missing". Believe me, I'd do it in a heartbeat if I knew what it was

My MCAT was the ONLY thing anybody commented on


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Even if you called my school, we couldn't have given you the advice you need without knowing the strategy you employed and that is considered invasive. Did anyone ask about your strategy? I'll guess not.
If all one can comment on is the reason that a strong application was not well-received (among many stronger applications), one is left to comment on the MCAT...

 

[708445]

Even if you called my school, we couldn't have given you the advice you need without knowing the strategy you employed and that is considered invasive. Did anyone ask about your strategy?

I'm not sure what you mean by strategy.

Even my pre med advisors couldn't tell me anything, and they were the ones who told me initially to apply top heavy


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[gyngyn]

I'm not sure what you mean by strategy.

Even my pre med advisors couldn't tell me anything, and they were the ones who told me initially to apply top heavy


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Strategy includes the method employed to identify the schools most likely to interview you.

 

[eteshoe]

I'm not sure what you mean by strategy.

Even my pre med advisors couldn't tell me anything, and they were the ones who told me initially to apply top heavy


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How is your research experience? That and applying late are the only major things I can think of that may have done you in (barring no major red flags with your other ECs)

 

[Mad Jack]

Retaking a 34 would be stupid. Don't do it.

 

[Mad Jack]

I'm not sure what you mean by strategy.

Even my pre med advisors couldn't tell me anything, and they were the ones who told me initially to apply top heavy


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Apply more broadly next time and you're fine- your advisors probably aren't up on current trends- a 34 was Harvard's average a few years back, but nowadays is pretty average for Top 20s, so you really wouldn't stand out enough to get an easy admit to a top school. You can, however, definitely get an admit to an MD school with your current stats.

 

[708445]

Strategy includes the research employed to identify the schools most likely to interview you.

Given my fine arts background, looked at schools that had a strong showing for well-rounded applicants (Cornell's Music + Medicine comes to mind - in fact, I specifically wrote about this program in particular for their secondary)

How is your research experience? That and applying late are the only major things I can think of that may have done you in (barring no major red flags with your other ECs)

Multiple years of research, 1 pub (middle author), multiple grants, conference abstracts...

But the late app wasn't my fault, and I got told on one of my phone calls they are sure not to penalize applicants for situations like that since I did everything right by submitting my part early.

 

[Goro]

Do us a favor and give us your school list, will ya? Your app is NOT solely based upon your MCAT score.
Also, state of residence, when you were complete, and ECs.

Then we can better advise you.

I haven't had any luck in getting someone to tell me "this is what you need to do, this is what's missing". Believe me, I'd do it in a heartbeat if I knew what it was

My MCAT was the ONLY thing anybody commented on


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[708445]

Do us a favor and give us your school list, will ya? Your app is NOT solely based upon your MCAT score.
Also, state of residence, when you were complete, and ECs.

Then we can better advise you.

CWRU
All Ivies (only 1 II)
All UCs (no II)
UChicago
JHU
USC
Mayo
Stanford
Vandy
WashU
Duke
Georgetown
Drexel
TJU
NYMC

Thank you for your thoughts!

CA resident, app submitted in June, secondaries within 2 weeks... committee letter not until September so complete in September.

ECs: Research (3 years, honors thesis led to a pub, multiple grants and conferences), volunteering (do social work in a hospital), lots of teaching employment (science and arts), top graduating honors from my BS and my fine arts degree, valedictorian of my college, dormitory peer mentor/RA type position, ER scribe (gap year), few fine arts scholarships, 100 hours shadowing (11 providers), lots of outreach with underserved communities here in CA

 

[Goro]

You aimed too high.

Your ECs might have been lacking, or your essays.

I would have advised:



CWRU
Dartmouth
UCI
UCD
UCLA
UCSD
JHU
USC
Mayo
Duke
TJU

 

[708445]

You aimed too high.

Your ECs might have been lacking, or your essays.

I would have advised:



CWRU
Dartmouth
UCI
UCD
UCLA
UCSD
JHU
USC
Mayo
Duke
TJU

Of the schools you advised, only 2 interviewed me (Dartmouth, Duke). Edited above for ECs

EDIT: This is still aiming pretty high (none of the lower ranked UCs interviewed me, which kind of surprised me)

My essays are what got me interviewed at Duke (as anyone who has completed that god awful secondary knows)

 

[Goro]

My knee jerk reaction is that Dartmouth was interested in your non-trad background, and Duke liked your research bonafides. But interviews might have been marginal. I also suspect the MCAT was brought up because no one is going to say outright "your interviews sucked".

 

[708445]

My knee jerk reaction is that Dartmouth was interested in your non-trad background, and Duke liked your research bonafides. But interviews might have been marginal. I also suspect the MCAT was brought up because no one is going to say outright "your interviews sucked".

I really, really, doubt this though. Honestly, self appraisal 100% honest, not only did I quantitatively have good MMI scores so far as I've been able ascertain, but qualitatively I even had one interviewer straight out tell me I had a really compelling story and she wanted to make sure the Dean met me personally at wrap up session. The sheer amount of interview practice/simulation I did over the last year ensured this.

 

[Goro]

1) Most interviewees are very poor at judging their own interview performance
2) Interviewers are trained to be polite.
3) One positive interviewer doth not an acceptance make.

I really, really, doubt this though. Honestly, self appraisal 100% honest, not only did I quantitatively have good MMI scores so far as I've been able ascertain, but qualitatively I even had one interviewer straight out tell me I had a really compelling story and she wanted to make sure the Dean met me personally at wrap up session. The sheer amount of interview practice/simulation I did over the last year ensured this.