- Joined
- Jan 28, 2015
- Messages
- 254
- Reaction score
- 204
I believe we can all agree with this lol
-
The 2024-2025 MD School Specific Threads are now available thanks to our moderator team! The 2023-2024 threads are still avalable if you need to continue those discussions. -
I was hit on by the physician I shadowed.
- Thread starter PikaDocGirl
- Start date
- Status
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2014
- Messages
- 9,272
- Reaction score
- 11,009
Dude I'm telling you, y'all just can't take a hint. The biggest issue is mistaking friendliness for flirtation.
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2015
- Messages
- 254
- Reaction score
- 204
Wohwohwoh wait a second... Since when is it strange to ask a girl for a sample of hair, fondle it, and kindly invite her back to your hotel (murder shed) to offer a free pap smear, I do this at least once a week, I mean come on guys were really splitting hairs here?
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2014
- Messages
- 391
- Reaction score
- 235
It kind of seems like Cantankerous either thinks we're all castrating feminists or pushovers, or both.
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2015
- Messages
- 6,823
- Reaction score
- 7,336
You are a really scary dude, you know that?
- Joined
- Jul 10, 2015
- Messages
- 131
- Reaction score
- 48
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2012
- Messages
- 9,248
- Reaction score
- 8,720
- I try to always be friendly...I love speaking to people and just hanging out.
- I will always say no when asked out, or hit on.
This leaves a weird grey area where I try not to assume they're interested (because it'd be pretty egotistic to assume that everyone who is nice to me is interested), some people assume I'm interested, and since they don't ask, I don't tell them to back off. Then, since I never told them to back off, apparently I'm interested but just playing hard to get?
It's frustrating. I like being friendly. But sometimes I hate the result.
- Joined
- May 25, 2015
- Messages
- 47
- Reaction score
- 76
you know, i keep hearing about how medicine is a "conservative profession," but it never hit me as hard as when i was reading this thread. and now i'm kind of afraid for my future.
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2015
- Messages
- 3,696
- Reaction score
- 2,981
oh calm down
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2014
- Messages
- 9,272
- Reaction score
- 11,009
Men can be such babies sometimes. Why does a girl need to spend 20 minutes "letting you down gently" because your fragile ego can't handle rejection?
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2012
- Messages
- 9,248
- Reaction score
- 8,720
I mean, the scenario above is admittedly not representative of every interaction, but that's why it can be hard to just be straight with people. Sometimes you don't realize you have to be until it's in a decidedly awkward place. And the 'she is playing hard to get' assumption is more common than I like to think.
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2014
- Messages
- 9,272
- Reaction score
- 11,009
We've been ok so far haha
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2015
- Messages
- 3,696
- Reaction score
- 2,981
does he get paid
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2015
- Messages
- 15
- Reaction score
- 26
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2015
- Messages
- 243
- Reaction score
- 226
My wife has...by me.
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2012
- Messages
- 9,248
- Reaction score
- 8,720
I find it freaking hilarious when people (seriously, not jokingly) call me a slut.
I mean, they're still douches, but inside I'm guffawing.
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2014
- Messages
- 391
- Reaction score
- 235
How on earth is this remotely responsive to what Cotterpin said?! She is talking about legitimately not wanting some one to smell her hair without affirmative invitation and consent (or something along those lines), and you're popping up basically to say, "But I like boys! I really really do! And oh, I wouldn't want to hurt their FEELINGS because they are so sensitive and I LOVE MEN I'm not a lesbian no no no I am not! I do shave my legs! So please don't think I'm unhot, boys? Please keep thinking I am pretty?!"I hope this doesn't sound strange or wrong somehow, but I genuinely like men. I don't feel it's necessary to stomp them into the ground, unless they are truly creepy and stepping over the line. I think this helps in dealing with men; that is, if you really like them. I have had some great male influences on my life, so I'm cool with them and don't think they are all out to be creeps.
More seriously, aren't you somewhere north of 30, at least? Have you not figured out that strenuous and principled objection to unequal access to educational and professional opportunity, or to sex discrimination, or to sexual violence, has nothing to do with being a "man hater"? SMH.
Edited to correct lack of parallel structure and to add--and if you spend all your energies letting some creep down easy, then that creep or some other will conclude that you're just playing hard to get (see this thread).
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2012
- Messages
- 9,248
- Reaction score
- 8,720
I know what you mean and I support your sentiments...but I would in all honesty be perfectly fine with absolutely no access at all to sex discrimination or sexual violence.
Seriously, though, @jl lin...wtf are you even trying to say? You're essentially (and I hope unintentionally) equating "do not want guys doing xyz to me without asking" with "must stomp-crush men, men baadddddd". The two are NOT equivalent, not even remotely. And to suggest that the ideal way to handle guys doing things you don't like is to...learn to like it? That's just all kinds of frakked up.
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2014
- Messages
- 391
- Reaction score
- 235
Well, sure. But that's not a good reason for a man in his 50s, in what is clearly a position of trust (physician mentor to premed shadow), to invite the premed who is half his age back to his place. It is an entirely different situation when someone is technically in a supervisory capacity over another but after time working together, a friendship develops and the two people become MUTUALLY attracted and act on it. That is not what OP was talking about. The fundamental difference here is this mutuality or its absence, not what category of employment action is taken or where in the corporate hierarchy people stand.
Sorry, I think I fixed it! Thanks for the heads-up.I know what you mean and I support your sentiments...but I would in all honesty be perfectly fine with absolutely no access at all to sex discrimination or sexual violence.
Seriously, though, @jl lin...wtf are you even trying to say? You're essentially (and I hope unintentionally) equating "do not want guys doing xyz to me without asking" with "must stomp-crush men, men baadddddd". The two are NOT equivalent, not even remotely. And to suggest that the ideal way to handle guys doing things you don't like is to...learn to like it? That's just all kinds of frakked up.
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2013
- Messages
- 97
- Reaction score
- 103
D
deleted407021
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2015
- Messages
- 3,696
- Reaction score
- 2,981
don't hate
D
deleted407021
I'd need something a lot stronger than popcorn to tackle this sohmbit.don't hate
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2013
- Messages
- 2,992
- Reaction score
- 1,897
So...what I'm I missing here? This thread is about 7 pages now.
- Joined
- May 5, 2015
- Messages
- 435
- Reaction score
- 325
People who have been here since the beginning... is it worth it to read all 7 pages?
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2013
- Messages
- 2,992
- Reaction score
- 1,897
Just reading the top comments. Saw OP's backstory on page 2, yeah that doc is trying to get some. That's not cool of him.
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2012
- Messages
- 9,248
- Reaction score
- 8,720
No.
Yeah, totally shocking that I'd post about being hit on in a thread about being hit on...now if I were hanging around a URM thread posting about being hit on, that'd be weird. This is just called discussing the topic at hand.
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2014
- Messages
- 348
- Reaction score
- 168
God knew not to make me a girl
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2015
- Messages
- 1,042
- Reaction score
- 1,836
Cliffs of what I have seen from pages 1-2...Girl who shadows physician gets asked out on simple date. People freak TF out and everyone's inner feelings about sex, perceived meaning of what they think about sluts or calling someone one, sexual harassment, chivalry, ex-lovers, typical rants and overreactions from both sides of the coin ensue.
I am seriously concerned for how some of on here are going to handle social situations in medical school and beyond.
OP: As an adult, politely decline, and move on, unless you are legitimately interested in said person, then go on a date. If it made you uncomfortable then speak up and let him know. Why does this need input from hundreds of people? There will be tons of situations like this in your life, learn how to handle them accordingly.
^^^^^^^
They rarely are.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2004
- Messages
- 30,873
- Reaction score
- 10,063
I'm not buying into OPs embellishment of the story, which I think makes the discussion less interesting anyway. In the original post the guy was not specified to be in his 50s (could have been a 25 yo intern) and he didn't ask her to his apartment. Just asked her if she was busy on the weekend. That's it. The rest all was added later, along with some unconsented touching, possibly because the responses weren't going in the desired troll direction. I'm not entertaining the latter post because I find it targeted to inflame and it's not as useful to debate because we all agree groping and asking someone you barely know back to your apartment is over the top.
I still think you guys are looking at shadowing as something more than it is -- its not a supervisory capacity in the employment sense and most people who let you shadow will not become your mentor. I agree it's bad judgment to ask someone who is shadowing you out, and probably unprofessional, but I don't think the relationships and degree of supervision/ control you guys are ascribing to it are accurate. Scribe or student is totally different as you are contracted to be there. Shadowing is informal-- really just some guy saying "sure you can hang out with me for the afternoon and see what I do". You can really "shadow" anyone, including the custodian/cafeteria workers and it's really the same relationship. I shadowed some law students before I applied to law school -- went to class with them, picked their brains -- it was no different. You ask someone if you can hang out and see what they do. They aren't signing on to be your boss or trusted mentor. The mentor thing takes time and is more than just somebody you met who gave you a little free advice or the time of day.
OK that goes beyond creepy. I gather you gave him a strand of hair b/c you figured he was psychotic and who knows what could happen.
Of course this is me--my personality. "Sir, I'm sorry. I need to keep every strand of hair I have. I am saving it for a sick child." LOL
Last edited:
Who says it needs to take 20 minutes? Sometimes it can take 20 seconds. As we grow up, we have to learn to deal with all types of people in all types of situations. People are not going to be or at least in my view should not be sheltered from various situations, since they certainly come up often enough. I think the experience of having grown up and having worked in highly diverse areas has afforded me great opportunity to learn such things. It's like all the PC wording. For God's sake. We can't shelter people from everything. It's unrealistic, and people have to learn what is within their locus of control. Creepiness may feel uncomfortable to some degree, but you do have a locus of control in handling this situation. Other situations, as I stated earlier, may require the use of big guns.
I tire of people that won't accept that they can't necessarily change what others do, only how they handle it on their end.
As Docktermom said, there are steps you use, depending upon the situation.
But every damn flirt or innocent "hit" does not mean we should get our panties twisted in a knot for God's sake.
But I hate extreme thinking. Yes, sometimes a guy may need a NY minute fiery response or worse. It is very dependent.
I've always been a bit old fashioned too, but I have adapted to situations and cultural dynamics. Personally, I have gone out of my way to keep things professional at work. All I can tell you is that in certain clinical situations over time, things can become intense, and it is not abnormal for manifold attractions to develop. People are human. Again, I think it's generally the best idea to keep your personal life separate from your work life. In fact, I have expressly protected by personal life.
Sure, there is a part of me that prefers how there was an etiquette to male/female interactions that was clearly developed, like say in 1800 Regency period. The culture has obviously changed, and people are no longer guided by such etiquette. Still, there was then and remains now gray areas--but they were not as frequent and were brief.
Those days are gone.
I am not trying to be anti-feminine here. But there is a fundamental truth about males,that boys will be boys. There is a line though, and when that line is crossed, it must be addressed. But for thousands of years males have been as they are by nature. Yes, it can and should be controlled, but I think that some people just don't understand the dynamics of humans and their accompanying hormones. Of course they must be kept in check. I don't want to castrate reasonable but normal men. I just want them to keep things in check, and most of them do--especially if they were raised well and have half a brain.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2011
- Messages
- 4,832
- Reaction score
- 14,372
Against my better judgement I'll carefully wade in.
I agree with @Law2Doc on most of the points after scanning through this thread. So people don't misinterpret.
#1 Unwanted physical touching or threats of physical contact is unacceptable in any setting.
#2 Quid pro quo is never acceptable.
I don't think that those are in dispute by anyone. What I think that people are missing are other aspects of this.
#1 Shadowing is not mentorship. It is not a power relationship. It is not something that generates a LOR. If you are using terms/phrases like these, I'm sorry, it is simply not accurate. There is no formal relationship between someone shadowing and a physician. People should still be respectful, courteous and not assault one another, but that should go without saying. In the same way that someone shouldn't touch another's hair, students shouldn't be loud, disruptive or rude. There is more often than not an age gap. But, other than that, they are not an employer, teacher, mentor, etc. They are someone that agreed to let a student see what they do every day.
#2 Getting asked out is not harassment. It is not being hit on. When I read the original post, it screamed, "Someone who is unattractive to me asked me out." I showed it to my wife sitting on the plane next to me and she made two comments, #1 it is normal for people who meet each other at work to start dating, why would it me weird for someone in a non-professional relationship with someone to ask you out? #2 This would not have been an issue if they were closer in age and attractive, sounds like they are ageist.
#3 People in healthcare often date within healthcare. One of our residents just got married to a scrub tech that he met in the OR. One of our attendings married another attending that she met when she was an MS3. Another resident married a senior resident, etc. It keeps going and going. As much as people like to say, "don't **** where you sleep" the reality is that if you aren't pathological/overtly dramatic, most relationships, even if they end don't have to be catastrophic at the work place. That doesn't mean that you shouldn't be cautious, but to blanket reject the possibility, especially for other people is a bit silly.
#4 People change stories on forums all the time. This is why for effective communication you generally put all the information that you can in the first post, rather than modifying the story as you go. It is hard to fault people misunderstanding things when you need to make major clarifications or the story shifts drastically many posts in. There is a big difference between a physician asking out a shadow and a physician invading someone's personal space.
I agree with @Law2Doc on most of the points after scanning through this thread. So people don't misinterpret.
#1 Unwanted physical touching or threats of physical contact is unacceptable in any setting.
#2 Quid pro quo is never acceptable.
I don't think that those are in dispute by anyone. What I think that people are missing are other aspects of this.
#1 Shadowing is not mentorship. It is not a power relationship. It is not something that generates a LOR. If you are using terms/phrases like these, I'm sorry, it is simply not accurate. There is no formal relationship between someone shadowing and a physician. People should still be respectful, courteous and not assault one another, but that should go without saying. In the same way that someone shouldn't touch another's hair, students shouldn't be loud, disruptive or rude. There is more often than not an age gap. But, other than that, they are not an employer, teacher, mentor, etc. They are someone that agreed to let a student see what they do every day.
#2 Getting asked out is not harassment. It is not being hit on. When I read the original post, it screamed, "Someone who is unattractive to me asked me out." I showed it to my wife sitting on the plane next to me and she made two comments, #1 it is normal for people who meet each other at work to start dating, why would it me weird for someone in a non-professional relationship with someone to ask you out? #2 This would not have been an issue if they were closer in age and attractive, sounds like they are ageist.
#3 People in healthcare often date within healthcare. One of our residents just got married to a scrub tech that he met in the OR. One of our attendings married another attending that she met when she was an MS3. Another resident married a senior resident, etc. It keeps going and going. As much as people like to say, "don't **** where you sleep" the reality is that if you aren't pathological/overtly dramatic, most relationships, even if they end don't have to be catastrophic at the work place. That doesn't mean that you shouldn't be cautious, but to blanket reject the possibility, especially for other people is a bit silly.
#4 People change stories on forums all the time. This is why for effective communication you generally put all the information that you can in the first post, rather than modifying the story as you go. It is hard to fault people misunderstanding things when you need to make major clarifications or the story shifts drastically many posts in. There is a big difference between a physician asking out a shadow and a physician invading someone's personal space.
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2015
- Messages
- 6,823
- Reaction score
- 7,336
I have some responses to this.
#2 I don't get why anybody is making a distinction between "getting asked out" and "getting hit on." That's the basically the same thing.
#3 Of course "don't **** where you sleep" gets ignored by a lot of people and sometimes it works out. But there's a way to do it and a way to not do it. Just abruptly asking out a colleague you don't know very well, like OP and this doctor, has a skeezy, disrespectful feel to me. Like it's not all that different from going to a bar inviting someone you just met back to your place after drinks. In the workplace, doing something like that creates awkwardness. If you really can't stop yourself from getting involved with someone at work, it's better to let your friendship develop for a while before testing out a romantic relationship.
#4 I don't see there being a drastic shift in her story, definitely not enough for certain posters here to be so sure she's lying. WTF. Women are constantly having to deal with little unnecessary touches, so it's hard to fault OP for not thinking to mention it in the first post. She probably didn't anticipate that everybody would immediately assume she was making **** up and she would have to provide evidence for the fact that this doctor asked her out. But her story sounds exactly like the kind of everyday irritating stuff that we ladies have to deal with on a regular basis.
I can definitely identify with the situation OP is in and that makes me want to defend her side of the story. So when men on here refuse to believe her, it just makes me suspect that they're identifying with the doctor who asked her out and are really defending themselves on some subconscious level when they attack OP. Sure, men don't want to believe that if they're interested in a hot younger woman at work that they might get called "inappropriate" or "unprofessional" or "a gross old man" for asking her out. But the reality is, you will probably make her very uncomfortable. Sorry.
I've had doctors reach in and smell my hair or whatever. It was their way of testing me--am I open to the attraction. Whether I feel anything or not is immaterial, b/c I am committed, period, end of story. A turn and look is usually adequate. If you blow it up it may be excessive and not worth it. No I didn't see it as them coping a feel on my breast or grabbing my butt. People will have attractions. It doesn't mean anything must develop from it. If the person isn't a complete jerk and it's unwanted, it stops there. Of course I will say that some of this stuff has been more apt to happen on the grave yard shift than during days.
For the umpteenth time, it depends on the situation, and often how you respond to it. Whether it's with issues of male and female dynamics or other plentiful issues that arise when dealing with people, people must learn how to be self-determined and use wisdom and discretion in how they deal with the particular situation. We are not robots marching around each other at work. Why is this such a freaking big deal?
For the umpteenth time, it depends on the situation, and often how you respond to it. Whether it's with issues of male and female dynamics or other plentiful issues that arise when dealing with people, people must learn how to be self-determined and use wisdom and discretion in how they deal with the particular situation. We are not robots marching around each other at work. Why is this such a freaking big deal?
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2014
- Messages
- 3,432
- Reaction score
- 2,187
Pretty Much.
Cotterpin, it would be like during night rounds while discussing a patient, and it would be like a matter of seconds. You work closely with surgical residents and intensivists around the clock in the units. I didn't feel the need to make things more uncomfortable. There is power in the right kind of nonverbal for the situation. Trust me, in no time we are off to deal with another crashing patient or a thousand other things. For God's sake.
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2004
- Messages
- 30,873
- Reaction score
- 10,063
Re #3 it's not your workplace when you are shadowing.
Re#4 the change of story was that it was initially a doctor of indeterminate age casually asking OP if she was free on the weekend. In the subsequent post this morphed into an old guy touching her and asking her back to his home. That's about as drastic a change as it gets. Everyones trolldar should go off big time. Went from something possibly unprofessional to something actionable. You really should see this as a drastic shift in story, and it's scary if you don't.
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2015
- Messages
- 6,823
- Reaction score
- 7,336
jl lin, I don't care how you responded to the situation. You're super proud of yourself for ignoring these things. Whatever. I'm just straight up horrified that a doctor (much less more than one doctor) would do this to you. For God's sake.
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2010
- Messages
- 1,551
- Reaction score
- 2,079
The opposite sucks, too. Mistaking flirtation for friendliness and missing an opportunity.
This is a strange sentiment to me. How does anyone ask anyone out if everyone is offended by just being asked out?
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2015
- Messages
- 6,823
- Reaction score
- 7,336
#3 This conversation has been about the specific shadowing situation and also what OP should do in the future if this happens while she is at work.
#4 No, I completely disagree with you. It's not "scary" if I have a different view of the situation from you. I'm a woman. You are not. I understand OP's situation in a way that you couldn't possibly.
The offense comes from the context and the way the person asks you out. Surely you don't really think that all instances of asking someone out are completely equal and should always be responded to in the same way.
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2014
- Messages
- 2,440
- Reaction score
- 5,518
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2014
- Messages
- 1,982
- Reaction score
- 5,648
EHarmony?
- Status
Similar threads
